PFlow's TRT + PED Chat & workout Logs via Tonal + dumbbells

[Smont]

Raws or bottled Dienelone Enanthate in sterile oil?

Sucks you can’t use it. I mean it’s not for the faint of heart side-wise, but it slaps.



Not sure how much I would trust Fusion.

My deadlift was the strongest it ever was on 150-210mg of Trendione daily. Sides were basically identical to what you hear for Tren Ace, besides cough obviously. Stuff was insane. You just have to take enough.

Ya, over the course of the week your TD dose needs to be like 3-5x the injectable dose. 400 dienolone Enanthate per week something similar to 200mg TD daily.

Unfortunately for me, I had about a 200 injectable limit and a 75mg per day TD limit.

 

[Smont]

What's a kardia mobile ekg?

 

[Smont]

Please tell me that's not a at home ekg you do through a app.

 

[Smont]

So 3 oral cycles in 6 months?

 

[Smont]

Sorry I'm responding in bits and pieces, I'm not trying to grill you lol. I just keep reading bits and pieces and then respond. I should probably read everything first lol

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

What's a kardia mobile ekg?

Mobile EKG anywhere, put mine on the Nordic track rower.. - by AliveCor https://www.amazon.com/KardiaMobile-Single-Lead-Personal-Monitor-FDA-Cleared/dp/B01A4W8AUK/

Pair with Whiting's blood pressure cuff. And finger pulse oximeter and you can open and urgent care triage in your gym lol.

https://www.amazon.com/Withings-BPM-Connect-Pressure-Monitor/dp/B07SJV1HNR/

https://www.amazon.com/oximeter-plethysmograph-perfusion-portable-included/dp/B09XBC9MN3/

 

[Smont]

Mobile EKG anywhere, put mine on the Nordic track rower.. - by AliveCor https://www.amazon.com/KardiaMobile-Single-Lead-Personal-Monitor-FDA-Cleared/dp/B01A4W8AUK/

Pair with Whiting's blood pressure cuff. And finger pulse oximeter and you can open and urgent care triage in your gym lol.

https://www.amazon.com/Withings-BPM-Connect-Pressure-Monitor/dp/B07SJV1HNR/

https://www.amazon.com/oximeter-plethysmograph-perfusion-portable-included/dp/B09XBC9MN3/

Idk, I can't trust those things, I've seen them all compared side by side with the real things and I've yet to see accurate ones. Not for bodyfat or for health markers. I know your big on the tech stuff for that but I don't even slightly trust them to be accurate. Not even the most high tech up to date ones

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Idk, I can't trust those things, I've seen them all compared side by side with the real things and I've yet to see accurate ones. Not for bodyfat or for health markers. I know your big on the tech stuff for that but I don't even slightly trust them to be accurate. Not even the most high tech up to date ones

The Kardia Mobile EKG is FDA cleared, they have a network of cariologists you can send the reports too.. It's legit. No feed to fear the tech here, nothing special about the hospital unit here.

The Whitings Blood pressure cuff also matches the reads I get from my local doc / nurse clinic pretty much all the time. That's also no difference in home vs. hospital tech anymore.

Really in the cases of AI-pattern recognition... Kardia EKG can be better than humans in some regards to pre-spot cardiac rythym issues (stochastic math is hard to see with eyes always).

The pulse OX at the docs office, looks to be the same ones at whats online too... But yeah I agree on the e-scale tech for home isn't the bet yet.
=
Yeah, I make my living engineering large solar+battery power systems (utility scale), used to do laser research, nanoparticle research, and various other solid state sciences.
=
Kinda wish I had my old University MatSE lab again. I could simply take all our powders, run them through XRD (X-Ray diffraction) and tell everyone the exact crystals present, any impurities, what phase of each compound, etc. Or UV-Vis or FTIR if it was a liquid etc. HPLC is not the end all be all.. Used to have keys to some amazing research labs, but back then I was analyzing... other exotic party drugs, not bodybuilding ones, lol.
=
Obviously, I'm weaker at the biosciences, should have taken AP Bio + more O-chem in college for all this 'ish on AM.

 

[Smont]

The Kardia Mobile EKG is FDA cleared, they have a network of cariologists you can send the reports too.. It's legit. No feed to fear the tech here, nothing special about the hospital unit here.

The Whitings Blood pressure cuff also matches the reads I get from my local doc / nurse clinic pretty much all the time. That's also no difference in home vs. hospital tech anymore.

Really in the cases of AI-pattern recognition... Kardiw EKG can be better than humans in some regards to pre-spot cardiac rythym issues (stochastic math is hard to see with eyes always).

The pulse OX at the docs office, looks to be the same ones at whats online too... But yeah I agree on the e-scale tech for home isn't the bet yet.
=
Yeah, I make my living engineering large solar+battery power systems (utility scale), used to do laser research, nanoparticle research, and various other solid state sciences.
=
Kinda wish I had my old University MatSE lab again. I could simply take all our powders, run them through XRD (X-Ray diffraction) and tell everyone the exact crystals present, any impurities, what phase of each compound, etc. Or UV-Vis or FTIR if it was a liquid etc. HPLC is not the end all be all.. Used to have keys to some amazing research labs, but back then I was analyzing... other exotic party drugs, not bodybuilding ones, lol.
=

I'm just stubborn I guess, I'd have to have them done side by side on myself to see it pan out on me in person.

Heart health is serious so I feel like I need a professional to to these tests on me.

Bp, step count and heart rate. Ya I trust those.

The bodyfat stuff isint even close tho. I've seen guys say there single digits account some of these and then they post pictures and there closer to 20%

Even the dexa and all that stuff has too many variables. Not that the number matters, the mirror is my guide and the belt loops lol, the The notches on the belt never lie

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

So 3 oral cycles in 6 months?

Yep, and spacing our with plain TRT / andros in between. DHEA based compounds seem to work reasonably well and have almost zero impact to my blood markers. Hoping to see the same with Diones and 4-chloro methyl PH like Mechabol.

Wierdly, last 2x times I ran Mechabol (4-chloro methyl PH) was very light on sides, but good effectiveness on results even at moderate dose and with better hydration + TUDCA based cycle support really almost no major effect to blood work.. Later this year, I'm HOPING to god to see the same thing from P-Mag (another 4-chloro methyl PH cousin) if so... that means I can process 4-chloro-methyl PH with less ALT/AST stress on liver versus straight DMZ or Halo, 17a alkylated etc.

However, the M-sten is the test. I have my Aquafit half-gallon water jugs + Nutriissa cycle support and if my urine stays more clear and bloodwork is better after this cycle - well then I know I had executed my first methyl PH cycles very poorly (no test base, not enough hydration, no TUDCA / cycle support) - so no wonder my ALT/AST blew up back then.

If P-Mag has similar result to Mechabol, then that would be amazeballs.. so I have say Andros, Tren/Dien-diones, 4-chloro-methyls... as some low side effect options or easy orals or Transdermals. I mean yes I can stock up on EQ, Mast E to run TRT, when not using orals also.

I do only plan on say 2-3 oral methyls like M-Sten or DMZ per year - if all of this works out and bloodwork says yeah better cycle support and hydration is key.

 

[Smont]

Yep, and spacing our with plain TRT / andros in between. DHEA based compounds seem to work reasonably well and have almost zero impact to my blood markers. Hoping to see the same with Diones and 4-chloro methyl PH like Mechabol.

Wierdly, last 2x times I ran Mechabol (4-chloro methyl PH) was very light on sides, but good effectiveness on results even at moderate dose and with better hydration + TUDCA based cycle support really almost no major effect to blood work.. Later this year, I'm HOPING to god to see the same thing from P-Mag (another 4-chloro methyl PH cousin) if so... that means I can process 4-chloro-methyl PH with less ALT/AST stress on liver versus straight DMZ or Halo, 17a alkylated etc.

However, the M-sten is the test. I have my Aquafit half-gallon water jugs + Nutriissa cycle support and if my urine stays more clear and bloodwork is better after this cycle - well then I know I had executed my first methyl PH cycles very poorly (no test base, not enough hydration, no TUDCA / cycle support) - so no wonder my ALT/AST blew up back then.

If P-Mag has similar result to Mechabol, then that would be amazeballs.. so I have say Andros, Tren/Dien-diones, 4-chloro-methyls... as some low side effect options or easy orals or Transdermals. I mean yes I can stock up on EQ, Mast E to run TRT, when not using orals also.

I do only plan on say 2-3 oral methyls like M-Sten or DMZ per year - if all of this works out and bloodwork says yeah better cycle support and hydration is key.

Honestly, clear urine I. Assume your relating to liver health?

Liver health is bottom of my list of concerns with methylated steroids. I'm concerned with acculated heart damage. And I'm talking about over the years. Long term stuff. The liver will fix itself

 

[Smont]

Talk to text cut off half my post I don't know why it goes from honestly to clear urine lol

 

[Smont]

I give up, I need a new phone

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

I give up, I need a new phone

Moto G Stylus 5G is dope.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Honestly, clear urine I. Assume your relating to liver health?

Liver health is bottom of my list of concerns with methylated steroids. I'm concerned with acculated heart damage. And I'm talking about over the years. Long term stuff. The liver will fix itself

So I wasn't too concerned, like I used to be super healthy no allergies to any drugs. Played sports (volleyball, basketball) was in the air force, partied 20-30's, etc.. fast forward.

Then I had the benzo-poison grandmal seizures incident from July 2018 (Google Domestic RCs.com and DEA)... Well liver and kidney values were 100x of the charts, they were worried about heart but that was fine and it took sometime for all my organ value to be like I was pre incident again. My lifting, over cycling PED + benzo-seizure mistake.. back then didn't help my internal medicine.. docs were hella confused for a minute. So just been silly cautious since, but several cycles and rounds of bloodwork giving me confidence now I am older but still healthy enough.

I'm starting to pay more attention to this, hence bloodwork plus best mobile EKG + blood pressure + pulse-ox tech I can get (confirm with doc/nurse readings, of course when in the clinic).

And I ordered some GNC men's 50 multis + K2/D3 and berberine and what else? I feel like we should post a mid aged gear heart regimen list.. what's the best lipid balance supplement out there, aside from diet changes?

 

[Smont]

I'm starting to pay more attention to this, hence bloodwork plus best mobile EKG + blood pressure + pulse-ox tech I can get (confirm with doc/nurse readings, of course when in the clinic).

And I ordered some GNC men's 50 multis + K2/D3 and berberine and what else? I feel like we should post a mid aged gear heart regimen list.. what's the best lipid balance supplement out there, aside from diet changes?

I bet Hyde has a good list but I like

Ubiquinol, tumeric with black pepper extract,a zinc/cal/mag product, 3gm of EPA/DHA and injectable Carnitine.

There's actually some studies showing heart remodeling from combination of ubiquinol and Injectable Carnitine pre workout

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

... Not sure how much I would trust Fusion.

My deadlift was the strongest it ever was on 150-210mg of Trendione daily. Sides were basically identical to what you hear for Tren Ace, besides cough obviously. Stuff was insane. You just have to take enough.

Right on, I got plenty of Trendione, cool will maybe do that after the M-Sten and a little plain TRT break.
How about Diendione effect, range?

Does the Trendione (Trenavar) make you agro like Tren Ace (bad mood sides)? I didn't like that aspect the one time I tried the Tren Ace.

 

[Hyde]

I haven’t used diendione. If that’s the X-Tren clone, that’s going to need 70-150mg per day. Most ran 90-120mg of it.

Trendione (Tvar),the sweetspot is 120mg per day. That’s what it takes to get a good amount of firepower while avoiding as much sides as possible. The more you take, the better it works, but ALL the sides of Tren Ace. Aggression/rage, acne, acid reflux, intense libido, inability to orgasm, gyno aggravation from the elevated prolactin, apathy, selfishness, self-assuredness, high blood pressure, obvious hit in eGFR on bloodwork. I wouldn’t run it under 90mg, and by 150 I’m getting all those sides showing up to a degree.

Ubiquinol, vit K2, nattokinase, Curcumin, telmisartan, ezetimibe, astragalus, pine bark extract, I also like grape seed extract. Always also use TUDCA, zinc and magnesium. NAC on blasts.

If you need bp support and can’t get Telmisartan, Carditone is best OTC product I’ve found. Spirulina helps lower LDL a little if you can’t get Ezetimibe, and Citrus Bergamot can raise HDL a few points if money is no object.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

I haven’t used diendione. If that’s the X-Tren clone, that’s going to need 70-150mg per day. Most ran 90-120mg of it.

Trendione (Tvar),the sweetspot is 120mg per day. That’s what it takes to get a good amount of firepower while avoiding as much sides as possible. The more you take, the better it works, but ALL the sides of Tren Ace. Aggression/rage, acne, acid reflux, intense libido, inability to orgasm, gyno aggravation from the elevated prolactin, apathy, selfishness, self-assuredness, high blood pressure, obvious hit in eGFR on bloodwork. I wouldn’t run it under 90mg, and by 150 I’m getting all those sides showing up to a degree.

Ubiquinol, vit K2, nattokinase, Curcumin, telmisartan, ezetimibe, astragalus, pine bark extract, I also like grape seed extract. Always also use TUDCA, zinc and magnesium. NAC on blasts.

If you need bp support and can’t get Telmisartan, Carditone is best OTC product I’ve found. Spirulina helps lower LDL a little if you can’t get Ezetimibe, and Citrus Bergamot can raise HDL a few points if money is no object.

Thanks much, got some nutrition shopping to do tonight, cool.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Well with everyone on @Smont "3-day steroid cycles" thread talking about low-harm Test + Mast cycles.. decided to stock up on a bit of that, finalizing my long term cycles / TRT cabinet.

Man my auction went well here, sold most over just 2-days!

Never really ran plain Test +Mast like I would with Test+EQ mix.. but sounds like a good plan to try after the M-Sten for the non oral, non methyl option. If that agrees nicely, then between either EQ and and Mast and TRT have a low harm way to bridge and keep cruisin' and only use the methyl PH couple times per year.

Just need to work out the therapeutic blood letting for EQ making my red cell count rise... I'm just thinking out loud here, aside from plain TRT between cycles what other guys who want to run longer, with less sides.

 

[Smont]

Well with everyone on @Smont "3-day steroid cycles" thread talking about low-harm Test + Mast cycles.. decided to stock up whilst making my long term cycles / TRT cabinet.

Man my auction went well here, sold most over just 2-days!

Never really ran plain Test +Mast like I would with Test+EQ mix.. but sounds like a good plan to try after the M-Sten for the non oral, non methyl option. If that agrees nicely, then between either EQ and and Mast and TRT have a low harm way to bridge and keep cruisin' and only use the methyl PH couple times per year.

Just need to work out the therapeutic blood letting for EQ making my red cell count rise... I'm just thinking out loud here, aside from plain TRT between cycles what other guys who want to run longer, with less sides.

Don't assume eq is going to do that, I've only 1 time had my hematocrit get high enough that I needed to donate blood on cycle. Typically it will get to the top or slightly out of range and then about 3 months post cycle it's normal again.

Even my doc buddy says ppl freak out too much about the slight elevations and think they need to do ate more then they really need to.

I'm not saying don't pay attention to it I'm just saying don't assume that you're going to end up with your hematocrit at 56-60 or something like that.

I think 54 or 56 was my highest ever and it was on my highest dosed cycle ever.

A little food for thought, ppl who live in high elevation have mid to high 50's all the time and no doctors worry too much about it. It's when your pushing 60+ that your in danger.

But ask 20 doctors get 20 answers

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Don't assume eq is going to do that, I've only 1 time had my hematocrit get high enough that I needed to donate blood on cycle. Typically it will get to the top or slightly out of range and then about 3 months post cycle it's normal again.

Even my doc buddy says ppl freak out too much about the slight elevations and think they need to do ate more then they really need to.

I'm not saying don't pay attention to it I'm just saying don't assume that you're going to end up with your hematocrit at 56-60 or something like that.

I think 54 or 56 was my highest ever and it was on my highest dosed cycle ever.

A little food for thought, ppl who live in high elevation have mid to high 50's all the time and no doctors worry too much about it. It's when your pushing 60+ that your in danger.

But ask 20 doctors get 20 answers

Hmm, true last time it wasn't a major rise and frankly I was using it to get through a tough period of moving family across US, building a biz, and trying to get back in some initial shape just to lift again..

And I think the NattoKinase Hyde listed and some others can help with keeping blood thin. But so far EQ does seem to tick up my RBC a bit, but then again if use it between Mast and other items then won't be on it long enough to have a serious thickening or anything...

 

[Smont]

Hmm, true last time it wasn't a major rise and frankly I was using it to get through a tough period of moving family across US, building a biz, and trying to get back in some initial shape just to lift again..

And I think the NattoKinase Hyde listed and some others can help with keeping blood thin. But so far EQ does seem to tick up my RBC a bit, but then again if use it between Mast and other items then won't be on it long enough to have a serious thickening or anything...

It's all a guess and your gonna need some blood work occasionally to figure it out but it's manageable for most without donations.

Especially if you do a lot of cardio, ppl with higher cardio capacity handle this issue brtter

 

[Smont]

Disclaimer: I'm not staying any of this is a hard truth, or a definite yes or no. I'm making statements based on my personal experience and the experience/bloodwork I've seen From myself and others.

I know someone will probably get there panties in a knot because I said not to donate regularly lol

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Disclaimer: I'm not staying any of this is a hard truth, or a definite yes or no. I'm making statements based on my personal experience and the experience/bloodwork I've seen From myself and others.

I know someone will probably get there panties in a knot because I said not to donate regularly lol

It's all a guess and your gonna need some blood work occasionally to figure it out but it's manageable for most without donations.

Especially if you do a lot of cardio, ppl with higher cardio capacity handle this issue brtter

Yep, beyond doc bloodwork I think I am going to try and give up or cut back my Delta 8/9 intake to pay for the extra like $1-1.5k of bloodwork per year lol to do this right with the other monitor toys.

Good call on the cardio l, been doing rowing mostly but getting kids into sports and biking.. and yeah no donation really needed if I don't run too long it'll just go back to normal after a bit.

 

[Smont]

Don't mean to hijack the thread but back to the support stuff, has anyone used telmasartan and losartan.

I've used telmasartan but not losartan and I just had someone give me a prescription bottle of losartan dosed at 50mg per pill. Not too knowledgeable on the difference between the 2 and how much the dose would differ, what would be a comparable dose to 40mg telmasartan

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

M-Sten... Excellent Strength, excellent pumps.. Excellent lethargy. Weirdly, I'm well hydrated, urine is still clear and Nutriissa cycle support is pretty comprehensive (unlike prior methyl PH cycles I did with not great hydration or lame cycle support). I would think less lethargy given this, but perhaps that's still a feature. Also the M-sten makes me slightly moody, not like Tren Ace angry... but it's not a good mood like PED like Mechabol perse. Still doable though, feels like DMZ mostly.

Posting Friday's 12k lbs chest/tri's day and today's 10k lbs pulldown, row, & biceps-only morning quick back workout. Like I slept most of Sunday, my almost 6-year old daughter making fun of my eternal napping yesterday. Today had really strong sets, good pump... but still felt like I was going to yawn and nap.

Hmm - the liquid M-sten hits quick, so if the lethargy gets silly here, can back off and then restart. Def getting some gains though.

Need to find time to do some flex-selfies, etc.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Don't mean to hijack the thread but back to the support stuff, has anyone used telmasartan and losartan.

I've used telmasartan but not losartan and I just had someone give me a prescription bottle of losartan dosed at 50mg per pill. Not too knowledgeable on the difference between the 2 and how much the dose would differ, what would be a comparable dose to 40mg telmasartan

+1 bump to @Smont question, since I posted right after he did..

 

[MrKleen73]

Was going to ask if you planned on any progress pics. Show us what you have grown back in the last 6 months.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Was going to ask if you planned on any progress pics. Show us what you have grown back in the last 6 months.

It's only been 3+ months, feels like 6 months lol.. 4th month complete will be July 11th. But yeah I need sneak away from the kiddos at night and do progress update.

 

[MrKleen73]

It's only been 3+ months, feels like 6 months lol.. 4th month complete will be July 11th. But yeah I need sneak away from the kiddos at night and do progress update.

Sorry, I was going off where you mentioned you started back on an oral in December of last year not when the log was created. Either way I imagine you have made some nice progress since March.

 

[Hyde]

Don't mean to hijack the thread but back to the support stuff, has anyone used telmasartan and losartan.

I've used telmasartan but not losartan and I just had someone give me a prescription bottle of losartan dosed at 50mg per pill. Not too knowledgeable on the difference between the 2 and how much the dose would differ, what would be a comparable dose to 40mg telmasartan

Never used Losartan, but my dad takes it.

Comparison of telmisartan versus losartan: meta-analysis of titration-to-response studies - PubMed

Telmisartan 40/80 mg is superior to losartan 50/100 mg in controlling DBP and SBP during the last 6 h of the 24-h dosing interval.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

^40mg of Telmisartan is a bit stronger than 50 losartan. More people (69%) needed to use 100mg losartan to get diastolic bp under 90 in the study than the 60% of telmisartan users who needed to go up from 40 to 80mg to get under that threshold. Telmisartan also works a bit better in the final 6 hours of the 24 hour coverage window. Both drugs have minimal side profiles & are equally well-tolerated.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Sorry, I was going off where you mentioned you started back on an oral in December of last year not when the log was created. Either way I imagine you have made some nice progress since March.

Lol, hmm.. don't remember anything In December. I remember Tonal was to be delivered, but got delayed until mid February... don't remember if/what I was taking over December Xmas cause I was traveling for work and got a cold and I had just closed on the house in November (home gym was not ready)?

Anyway, being 6'2". And pale white, requires some lighting and tripod pose work, to get them to show. Been testing that a bit. Don't want to sun up the skin for the tan anymore... Not worth the burn, C-risk.

Wish I could get the love handles to drop like I can the front abs. I need to do more core, play basketball or tennis or run behind my kids bikes more I think for that. Or get a cycle to go with the Tonal.

 

[MrKleen73]

I gotta be honest, I always felt cheesecake factory was extremely overrated, but I also grew up in restaurants so I'm a little picky and a little biased

I aree with you totally here. It is like an expensive Chili's, and the cheesecake... well it leaves something to be desired. Just a little to fluffy and light. A cheesecake should be denser, and thicker, not just big with lots of options on it. I am not saying it isn't good food but not for the money. I am saying for a place with cheesecake in their name the cheesecake is sub par.

Anyway, it's like 3rd short, relatively low dose cycle for year since starting after Xmas. I have some Mast E for a non oral option too grin. I don't want to run EQ again until I get a place to donate blood.

@PoSiTiVeFLoW this is where I got the December from.

 

[Smont]

Lol, hmm.. don't remember anything In December. I remember Tonal was to be delivered, but got delayed until mid February... don't remember if/what I was taking over December Xmas cause I was traveling for work and got a cold and I had just closed on the house in November (home gym was not ready)?

Anyway, being 6'2". And pale white, requires some lighting and tripod pose work, to get them to show. Been testing that a bit. Don't want to sun up the skin for the tan anymore... Not worth the burn, C-risk.

Wish I could get the love handles to drop like I can the front abs. I need to do more core, play basketball or tennis or run behind my kids bikes more I think for that. Or get a cycle to go with the Tonal.

It's going to be more of a overall bodyfat drop them target core work. Everyone has there hard do loose area, mine is lower abs and inner thighs. Usually those tough to loose areas require some suffering to make the dissapear

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

I aree with you totally here. It is like an expensive Chili's, and the cheesecake... well it leaves something to be desired. Just a little to fluffy and light. A cheesecake should be denser, and thicker, not just big with lots of options on it. I am not saying it isn't good food but not for the money. I am saying for a place with cheesecake in their name the cheesecake is sub par.


@PoSiTiVeFLoW this is where I got the December from.

My bad on the imprecise language "after Xmas", like 2-3 months after ha.

 

[MrKleen73]

It's going to be more of a overall bodyfat drop them target core work. Everyone has there hard do loose area, mine is lower abs and inner thighs. Usually those tough to loose areas require some suffering to make the dissapear

Facts!

My bad on the imprecise language "after Xmas", like 2-3 months after ha.

You might find you just have well developed obliques sitting there pushing out a normal amount of fat. My obliques are well developed and when I am not super lean they always enhance the love handle look but once lean they look pretty bad ass.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Facts!
You might find you just have well developed obliques sitting there pushing out a normal amount of fat. My obliques are well developed and when I am not super lean they always enhance the love handle look but once lean they look pretty bad ass.

Alright, well hit is a "cold (not pumped)" update here, no tripod or controlled all body flex-posing either. Still doing the one-hand cell phone thing, no tripod yet.. but tried to get a few angles to just look at body comp. I'm about 6'2" so I can a good bit of weight and still look leanish. Not trying to get above 210lbs, 215lbs max. I feel too damn heavy in plane seats ~220-230lbs. But then last time I was 220-230lbs, was sloppy, not tight.

Rather just "recomp" until get @Smont quality of definition over time. I can get bigger, but never really cut to make the muscles "pop".. E-scale and EKG and Bloodpressure, Pulse-Ox results coming soon.

Keep in mind - this is only ~4 months of work so far - long way to go (still good, considering where this log started). Lifting, supplements, TRT are coming along.. but as usual I struggle mastering the kitchen / hunger and counting macros is the main hurdle, what seems to work is the home gym + constant access to the fridge. Just eat periodically, more frequently.

 

[Hyde]

Can definitely see some progress for sure

 

[MrKleen73]

Definitely making some progress and those "love handles" ain't bad at all I can see obliques showing more up front, and softer going towards the back which is pretty typical. I wouldn't sweat them at all. They are not messing with your physique, or out of balance with other fat storage.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Today was a lunch chest and triceps pump day. Getting to the end of the M-Sten cycle, looking forward to some Apex Triton and Test+Mast next after the methyl PH run and post cycle bloodwork. Finally getting a little darker urine with the M-Sten now, but seems hydration and improved cycle support makes a big difference in the toxicity experienced.

 

[Segansational]

Meant to ask, are you running TUDCA or does Nutrissa have it as a component?

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Meant to ask, are you running TUDCA or does Nutrissa have it as a component?

Yep has a good amount of TUDCA already. Have extra if needed and saving some.NAC bottles to add to Nutriissa when I get around to cracking the DMZ again.

It's the most complete cycle support and not overly herbal gag gross like CEL cycle assist. Seems to be working.

I'm about done with the first bottle of Nanodrol (liquid M-Sten suspension/colloid) so I'll chill with TRT only and get blood cycle blood here.

I'm getting way less dark urine than I did in some of my first cycles run amateur hour few years back.

 

[MrKleen73]

Just a reminder you can't rely on urine color completely to rule out liver being stressed. Add enough water to iced tea and it no longer looks brown. Just something to consider. You are obviously more hydrated which is definitely a massive improvement and should hep with flushing toxins more regularly but first pass liver stuff may still be taking a hit. Not that high liver values mean liver damage either. Just that they are having to deal with a lot of toxins.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Just a reminder you can't rely on urine color completely to rule out liver being stressed. Add enough water to iced tea and it no longer looks brown. Just something to consider. You are obviously more hydrated which is definitely a massive improvement and should hep with flushing toxins more regularly but first pass liver stuff may still be taking a hit. Not that high liver values mean liver damage either. Just that they are having to deal with a lot of toxins.

Good point.. getting post cycle bloodwork soon, after the holiday, and see how the improved cycle support regimen is working.

Also yeah the M-Sten giving a stronger yellow-orange color in urine (even with better hydration) starting past week or so.., whereas Mechabol was still pretty clear and low liver enzyme scores on recent bloods.

I'm pretty sure the scores will be a bit higher with the M-Sten here after I get my bloodwork, but by how much TBD.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Woot, spine issues.. and what I thought was "lactic acid buildup" leading me to need a 10mg Flexeril (cyclobenzaprine) last night and wow. Overall lifting improves my cores strength and range of motion but when I push a bit hard on cycle for weeks on end
And don't stretch enough going back to the desk... Friggin muscles around spine tighten and grip up.

Don’t blame lactic acid for sore muscles

People have believed for years that high levels of lactic acid in your muscles after a hard workout are the reason you feel tired and sore. Turns out this is just wrong.

sciencenorway.no

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[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Happy Independence Day! And Slava Ukraine!
=
Back shortly with TRT cruise + Triton unsponsored log. Feeling way better after getting the muscles around the spine to chill.

After my wife hypericed (percussive massager) my back... Into submission, I realized where I had pulled a back-rib area muscle during skull crushers..

Also, since stopping the M-Sten the lethargy is lifting. Would do M-Sten again but limit to when the lethargy gets bad week 3-4.

 

[Hyde]

Happy Independence Day! And Slava Ukraine!
=
Back shortly with TRT cruise + Triton unsponsored log. Feeling way better after getting the muscles around the spine to chill.

After my wife hypericed (percussive massager) my back... Into submission, I realized where I had pulled a back-rib area muscle during skull crushers..

Also, since stopping the M-Sten the lethargy is lifting. Would do M-Sten again but limit to when the lethargy gets bad week 3-4.

I definitely agree Msten is a 3-4 week compound. It serves well to push through an anabolic plateau, but it’s strong juju for sure.

Glad your back is feeling better! Take it easy on it for a little bit and try to do some extra walking or something that gets blood into the area to help remove inflammation.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

I definitely agree Msten is a 3-4 week compound. It serves well to push through an anabolic plateau, but it’s strong juju for sure.

Glad your back is feeling better! Take it easy on it for a little bit and try to do some extra walking or something that gets blood into the area to help remove inflammation.

Good call, took the 4th of July week to get caught up on house / work / family stuff. Got bloodwork done this morning, post cycles just on TRT for a week now. Let's see how she looks post Mechabol + M-Sten light back to back run there.

I'm thinking once the bloodwork shows clear (BTW, check out the new vitamin support cabinet - thanks to you and @Smont, @MrKleen73, @Segansational and others chiming in on the heart/liver/kidney support stuff.

Little bit of work travel this next week then I'm thinking TRT plain + Mast cycle, for a bit... then Trenavar upon return. Or even before that TRT + Adenosine (Triton from Apex) and Iconic Alpha Seven. Still debating the order of that.

Sounds crazy, but I was like "highlander healthy" in my 20-30's. Naturally athletic, honors grad in Air Force, played basketball, volleyball at a high level in HS and college. Took that **** for granted, and now I gotta be more scientific and logical about tracking health 40+ onward now.

• BTW, what caused my July 2018 seizure - I was POISONED (my own dumb fault for trying fake RC-benzos via DomesticRCs (website, busted by FDA later) when clonazolam I was loving from IRC.bio dried up, I didn't have any valium or regular benzos on a trip... crazy withdrawal ish. Due to poor core-shape (too much IT-tech work, no sports) and crappy urban sleep habits, I was overrelying on benzos to mask symptoms - that I was no longer the young and fit guy from the AirForce anymore, yada yada... You know when you are in good shape in mid 20's and slowly let yourself be tall, thin... but don't realize how you may look OK but have actually gotten weak and stiff by mid 30's.
• Poisioners are the lowest of the low, scum of the earth. I made a full recovery from DomesticRC's poision but nearly orphaned my kids cause of these a*holes - https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/press-releases/california-man-sentenced-prison-misbranding-and-smuggling-conspiracy-involving-online-sale-and
• I had posted this in a deleted thread before, but if anyone wondering why I got cautious after lifting here 2016-2018 after a dual-grandmal gives you liver and kidney blood markers in the hundreds to thousands (off the charts), it takes you sometime of clean bloodwork to convince yourself your organs can run like you used to as younger fella who used to be "highlander healthy" born in the highlands of PA... 400+ years ago, lol. Who wants to live forever, who wants to live forever...

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Alright, still not using a tripod but.. one week no training, but after man-scaping can see the work coming out more easily.

Thought I would throw in the Apex Triton bottle there.

I guess this will be the "pre TRT + Mast + Triton" cycle shots.

And wow M-Sten adds weight on me, even with imperfect diet, went straight to 210lbs... I wasn't even pushing calories. I'd say I like the M-Sten as much as DMZ, other than mild lethargy/moodiness at the end.

Time for cardio and Trenavar + 19-nor- DHEA and Alpha 7, perhaps once the bloodwork is clear on TRT and Mast too.

Never ran the TRT + Mast combo before, hope I like it as much as Test and EQ for a non methyl options. Got a few Primo E to run eventually too. No worries, I mean I plan my cycle cabinet like 2 years out now.
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