Unanswered Training while (extended) water fasting

[btothefman]

Hello all this is one for the fasters, there's not a lot of info out there on training whike fasting so keen for thoughts and ideas - with some reason behind your response.

There are different types of fasting strategies, from daily time restricted eating ie 16/8 18/6 etc, one meal a day, 24 / 36 / 48 hour fasts, and extended fasting for 7 days+ which is the one I'm interested in. Talking water or zero calorie fasting too.

I've been able to build a solid base of muscle and am happy with the weights I'm lifting and I'm a little worried that if I go on an extended fast (looking at 21 or 28 days) that I will lose this hard earned strength & muscle.

Goal of the fast is for quick fat loss, I can keep up my regular 7 day fasts which keeps chipping away the fat but I just want to speed things up so I can get to maintenance. Losing approximately 3-4kg's after a 7 day fast now so thinking one more 21 day fast I'll do it for me.

I'm currently on TRT dose of Test @ 200mg per week to help maintain muscle so thinking that if I keep my whole body routine going at lower intensity maybe once or twice a week that it my help preserve muscle while on the fast (happy to increase this dose too if any of you think worthwhile but don't want to stress my kidneys too much as it will be processing a lot of fat).

The other side of the coin I'm thinking what will feed and repair my muscle as I'm not doing calories, this I guess is the question.

Will do scans before and after to measure he results I guess for now I'd like to try and avoid muscle loss if possible.

So keen for your thoughts on this, not looking for guesses but either experience or research based information if it is it there.

 

[Jeremyk1]

I think this is actually what spurfy does. After a bulking cycle, he does fasting. Pretty sure I read that somewhere. Anyway, I think muscle loss from short term fasting is overblown. Long term starvation isn’t too good, but several weeks shouldn’t be too detrimental. Personally, I wouldn’t really do any weight training. If you aren’t taking any protein, you’ll just be adding unnecessary stress to your body.

 

[btothefman]

I think this is actually what spurfy does. After a bulking cycle, he does fasting. Pretty sure I read that somewhere. Anyway, I think muscle loss from short term fasting is overblown. Long term starvation isn’t too good, but several weeks shouldn’t be too detrimental. Personally, I wouldn’t really do any weight training. If you aren’t taking any protein, you’ll just be adding unnecessary stress to your body.

Thanks.

Been in contact with Spurfy in the past he has a protocol but it's a bit different to this one, this has a longer fast but less AAS.

Thinking the same as you with the training, unless I get any more ideas may do lower weights @ higher rep range at a low intensity for maybe 20min so my muscle knows it's still there.

 

[ValiantThor08]

7 day fast, not too crazy. Will yield high growth and ketone levels. Training on an extended fast is bad because your body will go into repair mode, and use it's own amino pool to repair itself. Even on test, lifting while in an extended fast, is going to cause loss, and not gain.

 

[ValiantThor08]

My advice, instead of training, walk. Just take long walks. Will increase insulin sensitivity, and will increase fat loss. When you hit the gym after a week off, your going to come back stronger.

 

[btothefman]

My advice, instead of training, walk. Just take long walks. Will increase insulin sensitivity, and will increase fat loss. When you hit the gym after a week off, your going to come back stronger.

Thanks

 

[btothefman]

Been doing a lot of reading on this since the post and it seems that training is not recommended for anything > 7 days, some even advise against training with too much intensity for 7 day fasts.

So that and the posts so far have helped me decide to do my hour walk only, hopefully by the end there isn't too much muscle loss but I guess the scans will tell.

 

[SMS]

why fast for 7days?

Goal of the fast is for quick fat loss, I can keep up my regular 7 day fasts which keeps chipping away the fat but I just want to speed things up so I can get to maintenance. Losing approximately 3-4kg's after a 7 day fast now so thinking one more 21 day fast I'll do it for me.

have you not thought of PSMF?

 

[btothefman]

why fast for 7days?

have you not thought of PSMF?

No mate I like fasting I find it way much easier than all the other diet approaches out there.
The regular 7 day fasts were just to dip my toes but also ramp up far loss as I was hitting plateaus with the daily 18/6 IF

 

[ValiantThor08]

Been doing a lot of reading on this since the post and it seems that training is not recommended for anything > 7 days, some even advise against training with too much intensity for 7 day fasts.

So that and the posts so far have helped me decide to do my hour walk only, hopefully by the end there isn't too much muscle loss but I guess the scans will tell.

My guess is water/glycogen loss alone, and no muscle loss.

 

[SMS]

No mate I like fasting I find it way much easier than all the other diet approaches out there.
The regular 7 day fasts were just to dip my toes but also ramp up far loss as I was hitting plateaus with the daily 18/6 IF

hats off to you! Max i have done is 36h, never tried to extend, it gets difficult to not have gastrondintestinal discomfort, a not having bowel movements ED is annoying to me..

Do you use tea coffee or coffee/stimulant pills during your fast?

 

[ValiantThor08]

hats off to you! Max i have done is 36h, never tried to extend, it gets difficult to not have gastrondintestinal discomfort, a not having bowel movements ED is annoying to me..

Do you use tea coffee or coffee/stimulant pills during your fast?

Black coffee and minerals make fasting easy, or easier for most. Anything with sweeteners breaks a fast, so got to be careful.

 

[SMS]

Black coffee and minerals make fasting easy, or easier for most. Anything with sweeteners breaks a fast, so got to be careful.

yep, this was already what i believed even though people said no calories = no breaking fasts.. so yeah have to be careful! (finally there is study to support this, lol)

 

[btothefman]

hats off to you! Max i have done is 36h, never tried to extend, it gets difficult to not have gastrondintestinal discomfort, a not having bowel movements ED is annoying to me..

Do you use tea coffee or coffee/stimulant pills during your fast?

I've cheated a little with black tea / green tea / coffee / ACV, may drop these when I hit full ketosis as it gets easier then.

There's a school of thought out there that the caffeine in tea & coffee makes your liver work harder than it has to and may interfere with autophagy, not sure how much it impacts though.

 

[ValiantThor08]

I've cheated a little with black tea / green tea / coffee / ACV, may drop these when I hit full ketosis as it gets easier then.

There's a school of thought out there that the caffeine in tea & coffee makes your liver work harder than it has to and may interfere with autophagy, not sure how much it impacts though.

I've heard caffiene enhances autophogy.

 

[bell1986]

I've cheated a little with black tea / green tea / coffee / ACV, may drop these when I hit full ketosis as it gets easier then.

There's a school of thought out there that the caffeine in tea & coffee makes your liver work harder than it has to and may interfere with autophagy, not sure how much it impacts though.

I think coffee etc will be fine during the fasting period.

7 days is a fair stretch! I done a 24 hour fast yesterday. If i was single and my girl wouldn't go nuts i would go longer but if she senses i ain't eating she thinks i am hitting an eating disorder and goes crazy

See after about the 14-16 hour mark of fasting though.. No sure if you get this but i certainly do. I get such a good mental clarity feeling? All hunger completely disappears aswell. When i was doing it yesterday i was out and about walking and i just felt really good. Ton of energy and my mind was very clear and focused. I trained fasted also and felt just as strong. Whenever i eat i sometimes set off my appetite for that day also. Like i am always chasing my next meal.

I'm sure when our body is digesting food it is draining energy and your body focus's on this and also when blood sugars are also elevated you get slightly cloudy minded? Not 100% on the science though but i suspect it is along these lines.

What's your results been previously? Do you do a before and after picture? (Also Weight before and after i assume?)

 

[ValiantThor08]

I think coffee etc will be fine during the fasting period.

7 days is a fair stretch! I done a 24 hour fast yesterday. If i was single and my girl wouldn't go nuts i would go longer but if she senses i ain't eating she thinks i am hitting an eating disorder and goes crazy

See after about the 14-16 hour mark of fasting though.. No sure if you get this but i certainly do. I get such a good mental clarity feeling? All hunger completely disappears aswell. When i was doing it yesterday i was out and about walking and i just felt really good. Ton of energy and my mind was very clear and focused. I trained fasted also and felt just as strong. Whenever i eat i sometimes set off my appetite for that day also. Like i am always chasing my next meal.

I'm sure when our body is digesting food it is draining energy and your body focus's on this and also when blood sugars are also elevated you get slightly cloudy minded? Not 100% on the science though but i suspect it is along these lines.

What's your results been previously? Do you do a before and after picture? (Also Weight before and after i assume?)

When one gets into that fasted state their ketone levels are very high. It's like a nootropic.

 

[bell1986]

When one gets into that fasted state their ketone levels are very high. It's like a nootropic.

I have always thought about trying to get into Keto. I could do it but my Girl goes crazy when i do weird diets. Thinks it's 'Unhealthy' i still do experiment on the secret though. I fasted yesterday for 24 hours because i had the freedom to and i honestly felt more energy. Wasn't craving food or felt any sense of hunger. If i eat lunch say at 1 o'clock i am raking the cupboards by about 3 o'clock. Just stimulates my appetite and takes alot of my focus away.

When i fasted all day yesterday... Just felt relaxed and not food focused. I trained about 16 hours into the fast and it never had a negative at all.

Dinner time when i broke the fast i had to go for mostly high fat meals just to get a mass of calories in. Took a couple digestive enzymes alongside to help it along lol.

I would like to try getting into Keto. Heard it can be a little rough as your body begins to adjust but once your body switches everyone says you eat for the sake of eating and not an actual hunger. You get far better mental clarity also. I felt this feeling yesterday.

I a currently 16 hours fasted just now and starting to feel that same effect as yesterday. Zero hunger and i actually feel more motivated to get stuff done.

Will see how today goes

 

[ValiantThor08]

I have always thought about trying to get into Keto. I could do it but my Girl goes crazy when i do weird diets. Thinks it's 'Unhealthy' i still do experiment on the secret though. I fasted yesterday for 24 hours because i had the freedom to and i honestly felt more energy. Wasn't craving food or felt any sense of hunger. If i eat lunch say at 1 o'clock i am raking the cupboards by about 3 o'clock. Just stimulates my appetite and takes alot of my focus away.

When i fasted all day yesterday... Just felt relaxed and not food focused. I trained about 16 hours into the fast and it never had a negative at all.

Dinner time when i broke the fast i had to go for mostly high fat meals just to get a mass of calories in. Took a couple digestive enzymes alongside to help it along lol.

I would like to try getting into Keto. Heard it can be a little rough as your body begins to adjust but once your body switches everyone says you eat for the sake of eating and not an actual hunger. You get far better mental clarity also. I felt this feeling yesterday.

I a currently 16 hours fasted just now and starting to feel that same effect as yesterday. Zero hunger and i actually feel more motivated to get stuff done.

Will see how today goes

Just got to show her some data. Animal foods are in season all year. Carbs are not. Carbs are meant to be cycled. Animal based foods consumed every day. Hence primarily carnivore/keto is the most natural diet. It is the diet base.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Also, sounds like your entering ketosis at the point you feel the clarity. That's what happens. Blood sugar stays low, and you have a constant influx of clean energy via ketones. All it takes to be in ketosis is for the liver to run out of carbs. So the true fast actually begins when you hit 16 hours. Think about that.

 

[btothefman]

I think coffee etc will be fine during the fasting period.

See after about the 14-16 hour mark of fasting though.. No sure if you get this but i certainly do. I get such a good mental clarity feeling? All hunger completely disappears aswell.

I'm sure when our body is digesting food it is draining energy and your body focus's on this and also when blood sugars are also elevated you get slightly cloudy minded? Not 100% on the science though but i suspect it is along these lines.

What's your results been previously? Do you do a before and after picture? (Also Weight before and after i assume?)

Results are pretty consistent with 3-4 kgs of fat loss on extended fasting per week (it's more but I've netted off the water rebound), about 0.5kg on IF, don't have pics though.

The hard core fasting tribe is just water only, coffee never intefered before but I'm thinking if I'm going to give a true water fast a go then may as well try and go water only. For some people coffee spikes blood glucose but I don't have a blood glucose meter to check.

I get the mental clarity in IF at about 12 hours, the first 24 isn't too bad but day 2 sucks arse in cloudiness and for withdrawal, day 3 gets easier. Sometimes on IF it can be afternoon before I realise I haven't eaten as the focus allows me to get stuck into what I'm doing which is another plus.

There is science behind it, our HGH levels increase exponentially as our hormones change from not eating.... imagine our prehistoric family not eating for a day or two and hunting, our bodies needed to change so that we kept sharp so we could kill our next meal.

 

[btothefman]

When one gets into that fasted state their ketone levels are very high. It's like a nootropic.

Mate I dropped a Modafinil on a previous extended fast thought I was going to die, massive head throbs and heart beat changes get sick for a few hours.

I'll day with utmost honesty that the sharpness get while on an extended fast is godlike, never felt it before and I can start to see why some people keep on doing it.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Mate I dropped a Modafinil on a previous extended fast thought I was going to die, massive head throbs and heart beat changes get sick for a few hours.

I'll day with utmost honesty that the sharpness get while on an extended fast is godlike, never felt it before and I can start to see why some people keep on doing it.

Yeah. You probably won't do that again lol. I can't wait to go on another extended fast. Waiting for my gym gains to plateau first.