To TRT or not to TRT?

Ricky10

Ricky10

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I need some help/opinions guys..

I really haven’t had great libido/performance, drive to do much of anything, and pretty much all the other classic symptoms of low-T for probably the better part of 2 years now. I have always had depression/anxiety but being a healthcare worker during these times has also pushed that over the edge as well. This has led to consistent abuse of alcohol and kratom during that timeframe. Last June, I thought low-T was a possibly another culprit, or a result of everything above. Through my PCP, I tested out as:

Total Test: 429 ng/dL
Prolactin: 6.2 ng/mL
TSH: 0.624 (whatever unit that is- which is low normal)

That was all he would test, and simply explained that I wouldn’t qualify for TRT despite being symptomatic.

More recently, I looked more into those online anti-aging clinics that offer TRT and more. So I started the process with Viking. Still feeling like ass, I had a more comprehensive test performed 8 days ago that Viking recommended/required which included CBC, PSA, liver enzymes etc…all normal. The one thing that was a bit off was my fasting glucose at 104- which I found a bit surprising. So now, the more interesting results that were also unexpected for me..

Total Test: 661 ng/dL
Estradiol: 26 pg/mL
FSH: 7.9
LH: 3.9
(unfortunately free test and cortisol was not part of the test)

I definitely wasn’t expecting my T to be this kind of a respectable number- particularly given my Kratom and alcohol habits. For the record, I just recently turned 46 years old, and I was born and identify as a male. :cool:

So I was actually quite excited to get on the TRT wagon until I got my results. Now I am questioning if it would be foolish of me to not be encouraged by my test results and just continue focusing my efforts at getting my kratom and alcohol use more controlled. On the other hand, I have always been keen to get on TRT so I can play around with “other things“ more freely. I’m certainly not opposed to enhancement and anti-aging. Love the idea of both as well as that boost in the gym.

So I question if I would regret the potentially lifelong commitment?
The obligations of donating blood to control HCT? Does everyone have to do this?

Or is this my new lease on life and feeling renewed? Maybe 661 ng/dL isn’t enough T for my body?

Thank you so much for any input and help in making this decision. My official consult is in 2 days 😲
 
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Ironpirate

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Those numbers are ideal for your age. How much kratom daily and how much alcohol exactly? Any other drugs that might affect your feelings like antidepressants? I was on and off opiates and alcohol most of my adult life. It's been about 20 months since I stopped heroin. When I was on it my hormone panel was not much lower than when I was clean but I would go weeks without an erection sometimes and felt that my test had to be low or estro must be high but it was just mental and felt just like week one of pct.
 
Ricky10

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Those numbers are ideal for your age. How much kratom daily and how much alcohol exactly? Any other drugs that might affect your feelings like antidepressants? I was on and off opiates and alcohol most of my adult life. It's been about 20 months since I stopped heroin. When I was on it my hormone panel was not much lower than when I was clean but I would go weeks without an erection sometimes and felt that my test had to be low or estro must be high but it was just mental and felt just like week one of pct.
Congrats on getting clean! I don’t really measure my Kratom or alcohol very well, but who does?

Guesstimate/approximation here for probably 14 of the last 20 months..
~5-7 grams Kratom daily
4 mixed vodka (not weak) drinks 5 days/week. Then more on a weekend night…usually

Have been on Effexor and Prozac recently and have felt the same in regard to the symptoms explained above. I have been on antidepressants since I was in my early 20’s.
 
Ironpirate

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Congrats on getting clean! I don’t really measure my Kratom or alcohol very well, but who does?

Guesstimate/approximation here for probably 14 of the last 20 months..
~5-7 grams Kratom daily
4 mixed vodka (not weak) drinks 5 days/week. Then more on a weekend night…usually

Have been on Effexor and Prozac recently and have felt the same in regard to the symptoms explained above. I have been on antidepressants since I was in my early 20’s.
Sounds like you are exactly where I was. That's not much kratom though and it would be easy to get off that. I would consider seeing a Dr and asking for something like librium to help you get off or lower your intake dramatically. There is no other option besides continuing to feel like crap but I'm sure you know that.

If I can do it I know you can too. Doesn't have to be painful, a long slow taper is usually best. Good luck with whatever you decide. Who knows you might even balance out at 700+ test.
 
Rostam

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Given your age and numbers I wouldn’t put myself on TRT. testosterone is fluctuating form one blood work to another and depending of the time of the day.

Both of your numbers are in range. And even 400 is not such a low number.

Maybe your symptoms are not related to your testosterone but lifestyle as you
mentioned , Substances you take, stress, work.
 
Ricky10

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Thanks for the comments so far. I should have been more clear though as the kratom and drinking aren’t the major factors behind why I am seeking out input. I can quit those “relatively“ easily and am in the process of doing so.
There is no doubt I will feel better off both of those, but I also know I won’t feel like I did 10 or 15 years ago. I also can’t help but think that having higher (maybe real high) test will make me feel dramatically better itself and decrease my urges to seek out other substances like kratom and alcohol, and make me more capable of better handling work and life challenges. I am far from against enhancing my baseline and a large part of me is not all that excited about having good numbers ”for a 46 year old.”

Given the reality of my numbers though ;), it just feels more reckless than if I had tested 200-300s (which is where I thought I would be) because then it would have been a much clearer choice to proceed with the TRT process. While I welcome enhancement, I don’t want to do something entirely stupid either.

So I guess I am looking for more comments on those levels and what it is like for various people who have committed to TRT. Do you hate pinning twice a week (or more) for the rest of your life? Do you dread the need to regularly donate blood, and does everyone have to do this?
 
Rostam

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If it can help. I’m 51 and checked my testosterone level 3 years ago and last year. I was 500ish and 600ish respectively (can’t remember the exact numbers and don’t have them with me right now. I can’t remember my free test neither but was also in range but in the low range). I dont feel specially any clear low test symptoms but clearly feel older than 10-15 years ago. But I’m not planning to be on TRT until I’ll be really low or even under range.

I dont feel comfortable pining once or several times per week for the rest of my life. And checking my blood parameters more frequently and possibly going trough bloodletting etc..
 
Ricky10

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OK…thanks guys!

I feel that I really need some assessments, perspectives, insights from people on TRT as well.

Come on guys, I know you’re out there. Don’t make me have to tag you in! 🤨
 
match

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I'm not on TRT so I can't speak to that.

I agree with everyone above who suggests getting off the kratom and the alcohol. Who knows, your total T levels may increase dramatically (it's not impossible, I'm 41 and my last blood test showed me above 1100 ng/dL on my total T, natty). I don't drink, smoke, and I've never used kratom.

Also, your mood and motivation are based on such a vast array of variables (some subjective, some objective) that TRT may not even impact those things in a positive way.

I'm not trying to talk you out of going with TRT, I'm sure you'll weigh your options and ultimately make a very informed decision, but I am definitely encouraging you to try getting off the alcohol and kratom (completely, 100%) for awhile and then go and get your bloods done and see if anything changes.
 
Marne40

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There are a couple things in here that I find investigation worthy. The first is regarding your total test numbers. 400s aren’t too horrible, but 600s are pretty darn good. “On paper,” you’re right where you should be and maybe a bit better. That said, those are just your total testosterone numbers and not indicative of what your body is doing with it. I’m surprised neither test checked your free testosterone or SHBG. I think too many people focus on total test way too much, medical field included. I’m not saying it’s a worthless data point, but it doesn’t tell the whole story. You can have high total test numbers and tanked free test due to SHBG being through the roof, therefore causing symptoms of low testosterone. So, it’s unfortunate that these weren’t tested. Additionally, it would have been interesting if the first set of blood tests included estradiol so we could compare those numbers as well. Like many others on this board, I think it’s a good thing to allow higher estrogen as long as your testosterone is higher, relatively speaking. This can really be individual though, so it’s not necessarily relevant and there’s not really a hard and fast rule/guideline here.

Feel free to scroll past this part as it’s going to be a ton of opinion. I’m not going to lie (and I think I’ve been pretty honest about my feelings toward TRT around here), I am very tired of TRT. I’m tired of gathering my syringes, needles, alcohol pads, and bandaids. I’m tired of drawing oil into a syringe, making sure I precisely (as much as possible) draw out the correct dose. I’m tired of jamming a needle into my body and hoping I miss a nerve. I’m tired of hitting nerves lol. I’m simply tired of the whole damn process. But, I’ve been on TRT a long time and I’m not coming off. I tried that once and it was horrible. What I’m getting at is that once you’ve committed, it’s for life. I know a couple dudes in real life who came off and claim they’re just fine, but it’s obvious they’re not. These are the guys who need TRT. Their heads and bodies are so fucked up from hormone imbalances that they can’t even feel better with prescription meds (that’s a rant for another time).

So, my opinion here would be to have bloods done, but a FULL hormone panel, even if you have to pay for it yourself. But, that’s AFTER you get kratom and booze in check brother. There is a clear relationship between alcohol use and crap hormone levels (or having symptoms of crap hormone levels even though they’re fine).

I’ll say this too, I feel for medical workers, first responders, and military personnel, especially now. The sh!t you guys have to see on a daily basis is sh!t people shouldn’t have to see. I know from years of experience in that area man. It’s very tough on your mind. But booze and kratom are both bandaids that don’t actually stop the bleeding. Change those habits for a better one; training. Prioritize it, live it. Make that your “bad” habit. I promise, if it can fix my fucked up head, it can fix anyone’s.
 
Ricky10

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I'm not on TRT so I can't speak to that.

I agree with everyone above who suggests getting off the kratom and the alcohol. Who knows, your total T levels may increase dramatically (it's not impossible, I'm 41 and my last blood test showed me above 1100 ng/dL on my total T, natty). I don't drink, smoke, and I've never used kratom.

Also, your mood and motivation are based on such a vast array of variables (some subjective, some objective) that TRT may not even impact those things in a positive way.

I'm not trying to talk you out of going with TRT, I'm sure you'll weigh your options and ultimately make a very informed decision, but I am definitely encouraging you to try getting off the alcohol and kratom (completely, 100%) for awhile and then go and get your bloods done and see if anything changes.
Thank you

And that kind of coincides with the more rational/conservative side of myself. I am more deviant/experimental by nature though and am not above taking calculated risks. I also don’t want to be that late 40’s guy on the beach with his belly sticking out further than his pecs with 2” long grey chest hairs.

Drinking and/or alcohol has not been an integral or consistent part of my coping mechanisms up until fall of 2020. Before that time, I had done oral prohormone cycles averaging once/year for the prior 8 years or so, and more often than not experienced marked life improvements in and out of the gym.

Other than that, I have spent an astronomical amount of money over the years on test boosters, natty anabolics etc, as I am always seeking that edge. Admittedly, some have been quite successful, but if I can achieve life and gym improvements by increasing my T exogenously, I would be saving money as well in the long run rather than buying so many supplements. And more than likely experience more marked benefits. So I think…

So I guess what I am mostly saying is that I am concerned about the trade offs. Lifelong potential commitments, pinning, blood donations (I’m not a fan of this at all- though I am hopeful that I could be for the fact that I would be helping to potentially save some lives at the same time).

** Of course I am not factoring in training with all this, and I don’t have to or want to. I have been doing that long enough to know what’s up with that and for myself in that regard **
 
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Ricky10

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There are a couple things in here that I find investigation worthy. The first is regarding your total test numbers. 400s aren’t too horrible, but 600s are pretty darn good. “On paper,” you’re right where you should be and maybe a bit better. That said, those are just your total testosterone numbers and not indicative of what your body is doing with it. I’m surprised neither test checked your free testosterone or SHBG. I think too many people focus on total test way too much, medical field included. I’m not saying it’s a worthless data point, but it doesn’t tell the whole story. You can have high total test numbers and tanked free test due to SHBG being through the roof, therefore causing symptoms of low testosterone. So, it’s unfortunate that these weren’t tested. Additionally, it would have been interesting if the first set of blood tests included estradiol so we could compare those numbers as well. Like many others on this board, I think it’s a good thing to allow higher estrogen as long as your testosterone is higher, relatively speaking. This can really be individual though, so it’s not necessarily relevant and there’s not really a hard and fast rule/guideline here.

Feel free to scroll past this part as it’s going to be a ton of opinion. I’m not going to lie (and I think I’ve been pretty honest about my feelings toward TRT around here), I am very tired of TRT. I’m tired of gathering my syringes, needles, alcohol pads, and bandaids. I’m tired of drawing oil into a syringe, making sure I precisely (as much as possible) draw out the correct dose. I’m tired of jamming a needle into my body and hoping I miss a nerve. I’m tired of hitting nerves lol. I’m simply tired of the whole damn process. But, I’ve been on TRT a long time and I’m not coming off. I tried that once and it was horrible. What I’m getting at is that once you’ve committed, it’s for life. I know a couple dudes in real life who came off and claim they’re just fine, but it’s obvious they’re not. These are the guys who need TRT. Their heads and bodies are so fucked up from hormone imbalances that they can’t even feel better with prescription meds (that’s a rant for another time).

So, my opinion here would be to have bloods done, but a FULL hormone panel, even if you have to pay for it yourself. But, that’s AFTER you get kratom and booze in check brother. There is a clear relationship between alcohol use and crap hormone levels (or having symptoms of crap hormone levels even though they’re fine).

I’ll say this too, I feel for medical workers, first responders, and military personnel, especially now. The sh!t you guys have to see on a daily basis is sh!t people shouldn’t have to see. I know from years of experience in that area man. It’s very tough on your mind. But booze and kratom are both bandaids that don’t actually stop the bleeding. Change those habits for a better one; training. Prioritize it, live it. Make that your “bad” habit. I promise, if it can fix my fucked up head, it can fix anyone’s.
Yeah, I do wish the bloodwork was more specific, and I pushed for that with my PCP back when I got the 400’s test from my PCP. He said it was unnecessary and just proceeded with the order for Total T, TSH, and prolactin. I suppose because medically speaking from his standpoint, that was all that mattered. Fun fact: he did prescribe me Tadalafil at the same time, but my insurance company denied it. I mean WTF is that? Anthem doesn’t think my doctor or myself has the right or ability to decide upon the quality of my erections? So I just get that from research companies regardless. This world is so f*cked.

So fast forward to my recent Viking hormone panel test that I ordered via their website. I was certainly expecting to get free test and SHBG.…I mean, one would think so right? Instead, I know what my mean corpuscular volume is….thank god! Admittedly, I kind of feel like I would want to have TT levels > 900 regardless. But of course, I know where you are coming from. However, part of me feels that knowing my SHBG levels wouldn’t change the overall picture that much regardless. I know people struggle to decreases that as it is when they know it is high.

In regard to the demands of a TRT regimen and what it means to a real patient, I appreciate the honesty of the not so glamorous aspects. Some of that doesn’t sound so fun at all :oops:. Do you mind sharing where your TRT typically places you for numbers? Do you donate blood in lieu of your hematocrit?

Yeah, working in healthcare during COVID times is nothing short of abusive. To be honest, a relatively distant fantasy of a potential TRT benefit would be gaining the confidence and drive to get myself out of the destructively toxic medical field.
 
WesleyInman

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I've been on and off HRT for 21 years. I went on HRT at 23 bc I had a vericocele which damaged my testes so I was prescribed back in 2002? Way Way ahead of the game before anyone even knew what HRT was tbh.

And it was tricky as F to get doctors to keep me on it. I constantly had to remain "low" to keep my script.

Things are not so tough now.

I absolutely 100% advocate it. What I wish I did in hindsight was go on beta blockers and BP meds sooner. I also didn't donate blood regularly my first few years and I regret that.

Another thing, I always use organ support. NAC, Tudca, glutathione. I wish I did that the entire time

As for your blood sugars, it's most likely the alcohol causing it. Mine was a bit high, not Type 2 diabetes high but higher then it had been. I use 500mgs of Metformin with my highest carb meal of the day, or post workout meal I have it with that.

Or even better I use MA Labs insuligen, 2x a day. 3 caps before lunch and dinner. That fixes blood sugar INSTANTLY. I swear by this stuff. My code "WES20" works at checkout there for discount if you need to try it. If not, ZERO pressure but that stuff is good as gold.

Hope my feedback helps your decision.
 
match

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Yeah, I do wish the bloodwork was more specific, and I pushed for that with my PCP back when I got the 400’s test from my PCP. He said it was unnecessary and just proceeded with the order for Total T, TSH, and prolactin. I suppose because medically speaking from his standpoint, that was all that mattered. Fun fact: he did prescribe me Tadalafil at the same time, but my insurance company denied it. I mean WTF is that? Anthem doesn’t think my doctor or myself has the right or ability to decide upon the quality of my erections? So I just get that from research companies regardless. This world is so f*cked.

So fast forward to my recent Viking hormone panel test that I ordered via their website. I was certainly expecting to get free test and SHBG.…I mean, one would think so right? Instead, I know what my mean corpuscular volume is….thank god! Admittedly, I kind of feel like I would want to have TT levels > 900 regardless. But of course, I know where you are coming from. However, part of me feels that knowing my SHBG levels wouldn’t change the overall picture that much regardless. I know people struggle to decreases that as it is when they know it is high.

In regard to the demands of a TRT regimen and what it means to a real patient, I appreciate the honesty of the not so glamorous aspects. Some of that doesn’t sound so fun at all :oops:. Do you mind sharing where your TRT typically places you for numbers? Do you donate blood in lieu of your hematocrit?

Yeah, working in healthcare during COVID times is nothing short of abusive. To be honest, a relatively distant fantasy of a potential TRT benefit would be gaining the confidence and drive to get myself out of the destructively toxic medical field.
Viking can arrange to get your Free Test and SHBG tested, you just have to pay for the lab costs. If you're really curious you can set it up with them. Odds are your levels are fine though.
 
Ricky10

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I absolutely 100% advocate it. What I wish I did in hindsight was go on beta blockers and BP meds sooner. I also didn't donate blood regularly my first few years and I regret that.
Beta blockers and blood pressure meds? Is this common for people on TRT? I suppose it makes sense with higher end test dosing, but maybe more patient dependent? I wasn’t really aware of this.

Did you experience thrombosis as a result of high hematocrit?
As for your blood sugars, it's most likely the alcohol causing it. Mine was a bit high, not Type 2 diabetes high but higher then it had been. I use 500mgs of Metformin with my highest carb meal of the day, or post workout meal I have it with that.
Yeah, I suppose the alcohol would be the likely culprit there for the slightly suspect fasting glucose result.

Thanks for the input!
Viking can arrange to get your Free Test and SHBG tested, you just have to pay for the lab costs. If you're really curious you can set it up with them. Odds are your levels are fine though.
Yeah, I’m sure they can. They would probably just suggest I go through Private MD Labs for the order and then follow up at a Quest diagnostics location for the blood draw. I actually just found that test on there -Hormone Panel with F&T Testosterone, SHBG & PSA. Silly me I suppose for not reading into the lab orders far enough with the first test the website directs you to that doesn’t include these parameters. 🤷‍♂️

Well, silly them too I suppose!
 
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Marne40

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Yeah, I do wish the bloodwork was more specific, and I pushed for that with my PCP back when I got the 400’s test from my PCP. He said it was unnecessary and just proceeded with the order for Total T, TSH, and prolactin. I suppose because medically speaking from his standpoint, that was all that mattered. Fun fact: he did prescribe me Tadalafil at the same time, but my insurance company denied it. I mean WTF is that? Anthem doesn’t think my doctor or myself has the right or ability to decide upon the quality of my erections? So I just get that from research companies regardless. This world is so f*cked.

So fast forward to my recent Viking hormone panel test that I ordered via their website. I was certainly expecting to get free test and SHBG.…I mean, one would think so right? Instead, I know what my mean corpuscular volume is….thank god! Admittedly, I kind of feel like I would want to have TT levels > 900 regardless. But of course, I know where you are coming from. However, part of me feels that knowing my SHBG levels wouldn’t change the overall picture that much regardless. I know people struggle to decreases that as it is when they know it is high.

In regard to the demands of a TRT regimen and what it means to a real patient, I appreciate the honesty of the not so glamorous aspects. Some of that doesn’t sound so fun at all :oops:. Do you mind sharing where your TRT typically places you for numbers? Do you donate blood in lieu of your hematocrit?

Yeah, working in healthcare during COVID times is nothing short of abusive. To be honest, a relatively distant fantasy of a potential TRT benefit would be gaining the confidence and drive to get myself out of the destructively toxic medical field.
Ya that sucks your insurance wouldn’t cover tadalafil. Our medical coverage in the states can be pretty fucked up at times.

I mean, it’s very likely you’d feel better when total test is upper range, like close to 1,000. The majority of dudes are going to feel great. However, I can say from personal experience that I don’t. It’s a very strange thing and I apologize for the slight derail, but I feel ok, not great, when my total test is around 900-1,000. Between those levels and around 1,500, I feel like sh!t. Above 1,500, I feel better. Above 2,500 is god mode lol. The blast I just finished had me over 3,000, which is the highest it’s ever been and I felt absolutely amazing. That’s just me, but I suppose I’ve always been curious if anyone else has those goofy ranges where they feel good, shitty, then great. Anyway, odds are you’d probably feel better with higher levels of testosterone. I agree with Wes and am also supportive of TRT, but there are some parts of it that don’t really get discussed too often. He’s been on TRT for over 20 years, I’ve been on for a total of around 15 years, or so. I got tired of it pretty quick, but it’s still worth the effort for me because my sh!t has been broken my whole life. But, I try hard not to push people toward it until they’ve exhausted all other efforts at pinpointing the actual problem. Because like Wes said, there are other things to consider when you start, such as blood pressure, hematocrit (never had an issue with this), estrogen management (never had an issue with this as I’m a low aromatizer), and some other things that aren’t super nasty but still worth considering (acne, shedding, etc.).

My usual TRT is around 200mg per week. That puts me around 900-1,000. I donate blood when I’m fully on TRT doses only. So right before a blast, several weeks after a blast, and in between. I personally choose not to donate on a blast, but that’s just me. I’ve also never had any issues with hematocrit or my blood turning into sludge, even on EQ.

Ya man, that’s a toxic career. Positive experiences are probably pretty rare. The stress from work is likely a big factor here, or contributes to other issues. It’s pretty tough to give up a career though, believe me, I know because I did it. Maybe finding some other things to get your mind off it while you’re not there would be helpful though. I’m sure you’ve heard it before, but taking up hobbies can help a ton. If lifting isn’t filling the void, maybe look at other things to provide some release. However, if the job isn’t worth the stress, nightmares, depression, anxiety, and trauma, then I don’t know man. I won’t ever suggest someone find a different job. It’s not that simple. But if your quality of life would vastly improve, it’s worth some investigating.
 
Ricky10

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Ya that sucks your insurance wouldn’t cover tadalafil. Our medical coverage in the states can be pretty fucked up at times.

I mean, it’s very likely you’d feel better when total test is upper range, like close to 1,000. The majority of dudes are going to feel great. However, I can say from personal experience that I don’t. It’s a very strange thing and I apologize for the slight derail, but I feel ok, not great, when my total test is around 900-1,000. Between those levels and around 1,500, I feel like sh!t. Above 1,500, I feel better. Above 2,500 is god mode lol. The blast I just finished had me over 3,000, which is the highest it’s ever been and I felt absolutely amazing. That’s just me, but I suppose I’ve always been curious if anyone else has those goofy ranges where they feel good, shitty, then great. Anyway, odds are you’d probably feel better with higher levels of testosterone. I agree with Wes and am also supportive of TRT, but there are some parts of it that don’t really get discussed too often. He’s been on TRT for over 20 years, I’ve been on for a total of around 15 years, or so. I got tired of it pretty quick, but it’s still worth the effort for me because my sh!t has been broken my whole life. But, I try hard not to push people toward it until they’ve exhausted all other efforts at pinpointing the actual problem. Because like Wes said, there are other things to consider when you start, such as blood pressure, hematocrit (never had an issue with this), estrogen management (never had an issue with this as I’m a low aromatizer), and some other things that aren’t super nasty but still worth considering (acne, shedding, etc.).

My usual TRT is around 200mg per week. That puts me around 900-1,000. I donate blood when I’m fully on TRT doses only. So right before a blast, several weeks after a blast, and in between. I personally choose not to donate on a blast, but that’s just me. I’ve also never had any issues with hematocrit or my blood turning into sludge, even on EQ.

Ya man, that’s a toxic career. Positive experiences are probably pretty rare. The stress from work is likely a big factor here, or contributes to other issues. It’s pretty tough to give up a career though, believe me, I know because I did it. Maybe finding some other things to get your mind off it while you’re not there would be helpful though. I’m sure you’ve heard it before, but taking up hobbies can help a ton. If lifting isn’t filling the void, maybe look at other things to provide some release. However, if the job isn’t worth the stress, nightmares, depression, anxiety, and trauma, then I don’t know man. I won’t ever suggest someone find a different job. It’s not that simple. But if your quality of life would vastly improve, it’s worth some investigating.
Well, that is a lot to think about, but at least it settles one thing though. I will have to make it very clear to Viking tomorrow during my consultation that I will not be accepting anything less than 3,000 ng/dL baseline test levels. If they can’t do that, then I’m hanging up.

Seriously though, I had 900-1,000 in my head and then working up to blast and cruise status. I certainly have more to learn though before any blasting, if I even do this. So I’m a little confused as to what I may or may not be shedding? Hair? Body hair? Fat? My skin? I wouldn’t mind a renewed layer of skin either. So that’s cool..

The thought of going through another winter of severe COVID in the hospital is unthinkable and I don’t think I would make it. The thought of giving up my career is also extremely unnerving, so it would have to be a rather special opportunity. Hobbies are great, and working out used to be my getaway and still is. Though this past winter, it was even hard for me to do that with any real consistency. I need to find a backup hobby..
 
match

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Well, that is a lot to think about, but at least it settles one thing though. I will have to make it very clear to Viking tomorrow during my consultation that I will not be accepting anything less than 3,000 ng/dL baseline test levels. If they can’t do that, then I’m hanging up.

Seriously though, I had 900-1,000 in my head and then working up to blast and cruise status. I certainly have more to learn though before any blasting, if I even do this. So I’m a little confused as to what I may or may not be shedding? Hair? Body hair? Fat? My skin? I wouldn’t mind a renewed layer of skin either. So that’s cool..

The thought of going through another winter of severe COVID in the hospital is unthinkable and I don’t think I would make it. The thought of giving up my career is also extremely unnerving, so it would have to be a rather special opportunity. Hobbies are great, and working out used to be my getaway and still is. Though this past winter, it was even hard for me to do that with any real consistency. I need to find a backup hobby..
I'm no expert, but 3,000 ng/dL sounds like blasting to me. That's definitely superphysiological levels of test there, and depending on how your body handles it, might lead to a lot of estrogen conversion as well.

Viking is a good resource. I only had two phome consults with one of their "doctors"; he seemed both knowledgable and genuinely concerned about: 1. My health and 2. My quality of life (in that order). I'm not saying you should use them for TRT (that's your call, I'm sure there are cheaper options), but the consultation is free and at no time did I feel like I was being pressured to sign up and start TRT (the doc actually refused to prescribe me anything because my test levels were above 1000). That being said, I highly doubt they will prescribe enough test to get you above 3000, but don't let that fact stop you from milking the consultation for all it is worth, since it doesn't cost you anything.

Looking forward to hearing how all of that goes and what decisions you make.
 
Ricky10

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I'm no expert, but 3,000 ng/dL sounds like blasting to me. That's definitely superphysiological levels of test there, and depending on how your body handles it, might lead to a lot of estrogen conversion as well.

Viking is a good resource. I only had two phome consults with one of their "doctors"; he seemed both knowledgable and genuinely concerned about: 1. My health and 2. My quality of life (in that order). I'm not saying you should use them for TRT (that's your call, I'm sure there are cheaper options), but the consultation is free and at no time did I feel like I was being pressured to sign up and start TRT (the doc actually refused to prescribe me anything because my test levels were above 1000). That being said, I highly doubt they will prescribe enough test to get you above 3000, but don't let that fact stop you from milking the consultation for all it is worth, since it doesn't cost you anything.

Looking forward to hearing how all of that goes and what decisions you make.
I was completely kidding about the 3,000 ng/dL baseline and I do agree that would likely be a bit problematic :ROFLMAO:

Thanks for the input regarding Viking, and I am glad you had a good experience with them nonetheless.

So yeah, today is the big consultation at 3:15 EST and I am actually scheduled with a woman PA-C. I know that would throw some people off, but I didn’t want to assume that she wouldn’t be as understanding or relatable as a male. For all I know, she is one of their better or even best clinicians. With my luck though, she will just offer me clomid.

Despite all the great comments/insights thus far, I am still on the fence. Hopefully the consultation will also be a helpful and good experience. I must admit though, if I get an the offer for Test-c, and HCG, (probably not aromasin yet) it will be a little difficult for me to say no. :sneaky:
 
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GreenMachineX

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I was completely kidding about the 3,000 ng/dL baseline and I do agree that would likely be a bit problematic :ROFLMAO:

Thanks for the input regarding Viking, and I am glad you had a good experience with them nonetheless.

So yeah, today is the big consultation at 3:15 EST and I am actually scheduled with a woman PA-C. I know that would throw some people off, but I didn’t want to assume that she wouldn’t be as understanding or relatable as a male. For all I know, she is one of their better or even best clinicians. With my luck though, she will just offer me clomid.

Despite all the great comments/insights thus far, I am still on the fence. Hopefully the consultation will also be a helpful and good experience. I must admit though, if I get an the offer for Test-c, and HCG, (probably not aromasin yet) it will be a little difficult for me to say no. :sneaky:
I've been on TRT for 8 years or so. But with your total T, I'd highly recommend getting free T checked before making that commitment. Discountedlabs.com has the best test for a good price. If your a low shbg guy like me, your free T could already be top of range with that total T.

I wish I tried everything else to optimize my natural testosterone and checked my free T before starting.
 
Ricky10

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I've been on TRT for 8 years or so. But with your total T, I'd highly recommend getting free T checked before making that commitment. Discountedlabs.com has the best test for a good price. If your a low shbg guy like me, your free T could already be top of range with that total T.

I wish I tried everything else to optimize my natural testosterone and checked my free T before starting.
Thanks dude!

I don’t know, I definitely feel quite torn at this point. Decision making has always been a weakness of mine when it comes to significant life decisions. Real bad..

Part of me thinks I am overthinking the situation, as I usually do, but in this case I don’t really think I am. Ughh! I should probably resist any urges to make a snap decision during my consult today.

However, as I was bouncing ideas around with another member, maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world just to try it out for a few months with the HCG. Just to get a feel for what a pinning regimen feels like to me, and at least my initial subjective response in that relatively short timeframe. Though I realize that would not likely fully represent the longer term response, sometimes you just know when something isn’t for you. With the HCG on board, rebounding shouldn’t be all that problematic if I were to decide it’s just not my thing.

On another note, you all may have seen me ask questions a few times about donating blood. This concerns me mostly because I don’t do so well with that kind of thing. I can barely stand having my blood pressure taken, even when I do it myself. It’s not so much a needle fear, and I really don’t even hate the thought of pinning.

The thing that gets me are things like tourniquets, cuffs, and or pumping my wrist to encourage blood flow. The feeling of my pulse bounding in the case of tourniquets and blood pressure cuffs drives me crazy and it’s hard for me to even sit still. When I had my recent blood work with the tourniquet on, I got pretty light headed for a minute and couldn’t wait for even that to be done. The phlebotomist started talking to me about random sh*t which seemed to help a little.

I have never given blood, but I watched a video. Seems I would mostly have the blood pressure cuff going off intermittently and fist pumping to be concerned about. Anyone else have this issue? Is it something I would likely just get used to?

I wish they could just give me small bolus of morphine or propofol before to take the edge off if I ultimately end up going through with all this :ROFLMAO:

You would think that with todays technology, people could just give blood transdermally!
 
GreenMachineX

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Thanks dude!

I don’t know, I definitely feel quite torn at this point. Decision making has always been a weakness of mine when it comes to significant life decisions. Real bad..

Part of me thinks I am overthinking the situation, as I usually do, but in this case I don’t really think I am. Ughh! I should probably resist any urges to make a snap decision during my consult today.

However, as I was bouncing ideas around with another member, maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world just to try it out for a few months with the HCG. Just to get a feel for what a pinning regimen feels like to me, and at least my initial subjective response in that relatively short timeframe. Though I realize that would not likely fully represent the longer term response, sometimes you just know when something isn’t for you. With the HCG on board, rebounding shouldn’t be all that problematic if I were to decide it’s just not my thing.

On another note, you all may have seen me ask questions a few times about donating blood. This concerns me mostly because I don’t do so well with that kind of thing. I can barely stand having my blood pressure taken, even when I do it myself. It’s not so much a needle fear, and I really don’t even hate the thought of pinning.

The thing that gets me are things like tourniquets, cuffs, and or pumping my wrist to encourage blood flow. The feeling of my pulse bounding in the case of tourniquets and blood pressure cuffs drives me crazy and it’s hard for me to even sit still. When I had my recent blood work with the tourniquet on, I got pretty light headed for a minute and couldn’t wait for even that to be done. The phlebotomist started talking to me about random sh*t which seemed to help a little.

I have never given blood, but I watched a video. Seems I would mostly have the blood pressure cuff going off intermittently and fist pumping to be concerned about. Anyone else have this issue? Is it something I would likely just get used to?

I wish they could just give me small bolus of morphine or propofol before to take the edge off if I ultimately end up going through with all this :ROFLMAO:

You would think that with todays technology, people could just give blood transdermally!
Well, the tourniquet stays on for blood donation for like 10 minutes, depending on how fast you fill the bag. If you don't like 30 seconds of a blood draw, well, this might be a little harder.

But plenty of guys don't need to worry about donating. The question is, what hemoglobin and hematocrit are you comfortable with?
 
match

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Thanks dude!

I don’t know, I definitely feel quite torn at this point. Decision making has always been a weakness of mine when it comes to significant life decisions. Real bad..

Part of me thinks I am overthinking the situation, as I usually do, but in this case I don’t really think I am. Ughh! I should probably resist any urges to make a snap decision during my consult today.

However, as I was bouncing ideas around with another member, maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world just to try it out for a few months with the HCG. Just to get a feel for what a pinning regimen feels like to me, and at least my initial subjective response in that relatively short timeframe. Though I realize that would not likely fully represent the longer term response, sometimes you just know when something isn’t for you. With the HCG on board, rebounding shouldn’t be all that problematic if I were to decide it’s just not my thing.

On another note, you all may have seen me ask questions a few times about donating blood. This concerns me mostly because I don’t do so well with that kind of thing. I can barely stand having my blood pressure taken, even when I do it myself. It’s not so much a needle fear, and I really don’t even hate the thought of pinning.

The thing that gets me are things like tourniquets, cuffs, and or pumping my wrist to encourage blood flow. The feeling of my pulse bounding in the case of tourniquets and blood pressure cuffs drives me crazy and it’s hard for me to even sit still. When I had my recent blood work with the tourniquet on, I got pretty light headed for a minute and couldn’t wait for even that to be done. The phlebotomist started talking to me about random sh*t which seemed to help a little.

I have never given blood, but I watched a video. Seems I would mostly have the blood pressure cuff going off intermittently and fist pumping to be concerned about. Anyone else have this issue? Is it something I would likely just get used to?

I wish they could just give me small bolus of morphine or propofol before to take the edge off if I ultimately end up going through with all this :ROFLMAO:

You would think that with todays technology, people could just give blood transdermally!
Never was an issue for me, but I would suggest (if this is a thing you end up having to do regularly) that you desensitize yourself to the aggravating stimulus by getting a blood pressure cuff and taking your own BP and RHR readings yourself, at least once a day. You can log it if you like collecting data on yourself and tracking changes over time.

Just a little obstacle that you can overcome with some effort and determination.
 
GreenMachineX

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Thanks dude!

I don’t know, I definitely feel quite torn at this point. Decision making has always been a weakness of mine when it comes to significant life decisions. Real bad..

Part of me thinks I am overthinking the situation, as I usually do, but in this case I don’t really think I am. Ughh! I should probably resist any urges to make a snap decision during my consult today.

However, as I was bouncing ideas around with another member, maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world just to try it out for a few months with the HCG. Just to get a feel for what a pinning regimen feels like to me, and at least my initial subjective response in that relatively short timeframe. Though I realize that would not likely fully represent the longer term response, sometimes you just know when something isn’t for you. With the HCG on board, rebounding shouldn’t be all that problematic if I were to decide it’s just not my thing.

On another note, you all may have seen me ask questions a few times about donating blood. This concerns me mostly because I don’t do so well with that kind of thing. I can barely stand having my blood pressure taken, even when I do it myself. It’s not so much a needle fear, and I really don’t even hate the thought of pinning.

The thing that gets me are things like tourniquets, cuffs, and or pumping my wrist to encourage blood flow. The feeling of my pulse bounding in the case of tourniquets and blood pressure cuffs drives me crazy and it’s hard for me to even sit still. When I had my recent blood work with the tourniquet on, I got pretty light headed for a minute and couldn’t wait for even that to be done. The phlebotomist started talking to me about random sh*t which seemed to help a little.

I have never given blood, but I watched a video. Seems I would mostly have the blood pressure cuff going off intermittently and fist pumping to be concerned about. Anyone else have this issue? Is it something I would likely just get used to?

I wish they could just give me small bolus of morphine or propofol before to take the edge off if I ultimately end up going through with all this :ROFLMAO:

You would think that with todays technology, people could just give blood transdermally!
Another note...there are also plenty of guys out there who actually feel worse with higher test levels. Excelmale forum has lots of feedback like that.
 
Marne40

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Well, that is a lot to think about, but at least it settles one thing though. I will have to make it very clear to Viking tomorrow during my consultation that I will not be accepting anything less than 3,000 ng/dL baseline test levels. If they can’t do that, then I’m hanging up.

Seriously though, I had 900-1,000 in my head and then working up to blast and cruise status. I certainly have more to learn though before any blasting, if I even do this. So I’m a little confused as to what I may or may not be shedding? Hair? Body hair? Fat? My skin? I wouldn’t mind a renewed layer of skin either. So that’s cool..

The thought of going through another winter of severe COVID in the hospital is unthinkable and I don’t think I would make it. The thought of giving up my career is also extremely unnerving, so it would have to be a rather special opportunity. Hobbies are great, and working out used to be my getaway and still is. Though this past winter, it was even hard for me to do that with any real consistency. I need to find a backup hobby..
Haha, they’d sh!t if you demanded to be that high. Well maybe not, I’m sure they get a lot of dudes who are looking for legal ways to blast lol. But ya, 900-1,000 is perfect for most. Although some folks do just fine lower than that.

I was referring to head hair shedding. It’s largely genetic, but can still happen to some. My hair was already thinning so I knew what was going to happen. Therefore, I just embraced it.

Regarding the appointment today, only you can decide whether or not you accept TRT if offered, but I’m going to stick to my original suggestion to have a full blood test done first. Not to say I’d think less of you if you accepted, because it’s hard to turn down something that could potentially make you feel like you again, and I can’t dispute that.

Whatever you decide to do career wise just know that there are others out there who had to face similar challenges. I’m one of them, and I’m always here to share personal experience and help out where I can.
 
Smont

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Your numbers look good, your symptoms probably have nothing to do with your testosterone levels. Your brain chemicals also play a huge role in sex drive and sexual performance. When that's the case, for some ppl getting on testosterone won't change anything.

I think if I was you and in your position I wouldn't go on trt unless you actually want to. I don't think it's going to fix the problem because I don't think it's the cause of the problem.
 
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Kratom can cause all the issues that you are listing. If I was you I would quit kratom totally for an extended period. If you're going to drink alcohol just keep it at the minimum possible. Kratom lowers T levels, can crush libido, and can cause depression amongst other things. I don't think you'll be able to really know what your baseline is unless you get off the kratom for some months.

I've had issues was all sorts of substances over the years. Occasional kratom use turned into 15 g a day for a while during a stressful part of my life. I think it was quite helpful for a while, but eventually became a bad habit and dependency. It really started f****** with my head and I just got off the stuff completely. I'm in healthcare as well so I feel you on the chronic stress brotha. I'm a little bit younger than you but totally sober besides occasional cannabis for years now. Total T is 850.

Edited:. Grammar
 
Ricky10

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OK

Thanks to everyone for the ongoing suggestions/help. I wasn’t able to respond earlier because I had some obligations to tend to around the house. So I just got off the phone with Viking and some of you are too smart for your own good 👍

-They don’t treat people with TRT unless you are 550 ng/dL or less TT and symptomatic. Unless you get further blood work and your free T and or SHBG are off. Of course I’m thinking why didn’t we just do that to begin with if it is indeed one of your parameters for treating people :unsure:

So she recommended that I get that done and then we could consider TRT. We did not discuss the alcohol and kratom factors, but I am sure she would have listened if I had wanted to.

So, that is where I am at. I think there are other online TRT clinics that would treat me regardless, but I think I need to take a step back at least for now. In the meantime, continue on my path toward omitting kratom, and gain better control of my alcohol consumption. I may very well work in that test for free T and SHBG as well.

The pricing would have been $230 for 10 weeks of just test and $330 for 10 weeks of test and gonadorelin. They are not currently doing HCG per se - yet they could have it compounded upon request (likely for more money I suspect). They do not ever charge consult fees. I thought that was all pretty reasonable.

So that’s where I am at for now. I guess I need to stock up again on some of my favorite Natty supps. Which will unfortunately cost me more money than if I had ended up on TRT 🤷‍♂️
 
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If they added HCG they would definitely increase the cost. They're a business afterall, but I agree that their free consultations are a great plus.

Ultimately I think you're on a great trajectory right now. You have a baseline for where your levels are at with the kratom and alcohol in the mix, and you intend to nix kratom and reduce alcohol (I still highly recommend nixxing alcohol entirely), so in 6-10 weeks you can get your bloodwork done again and see if things have changed.

Keep putting in the effort in the gym, keep dialing in your diet (we all have room to improve in that department), and do what you can to reduce stress and improve sleep.

TRT will be an option for when you truly need it, but until then there are many ways you can improve your quality of life and fitness.

We'll be here to cheer you on. You might consider logging your experience in getting rid of the kratom. Who knows, you could impact a lot of guys down the road who want to do the same thing, that could learn from your experience.
 
Ricky10

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If they added HCG they would definitely increase the cost. They're a business afterall, but I agree that their free consultations are a great plus.

Ultimately I think you're on a great trajectory right now. You have a baseline for where your levels are at with the kratom and alcohol in the mix, and you intend to nix kratom and reduce alcohol (I still highly recommend nixxing alcohol entirely), so in 6-10 weeks you can get your bloodwork done again and see if things have changed.

Keep putting in the effort in the gym, keep dialing in your diet (we all have room to improve in that department), and do what you can to reduce stress and improve sleep.

TRT will be an option for when you truly need it, but until then there are many ways you can improve your quality of life and fitness.

We'll be here to cheer you on. You might consider logging your experience in getting rid of the kratom. Who knows, you could impact a lot of guys down the road who want to do the same thing, that could learn from your experience.
Well said!

I can realistically and honestly say the alcohol won’t be completely omitted, but I will do what I can. Getting back to just social drinking maybe 2-6 times a month (which is me at baseline) would be a win. keeping it at the low end to kick things off would be wise though. We’ll see..

The kratom will be something I will likely have to attack the next time I have a somewhat extended period off from work- like 3-4 days. I think I have that coming up fairly soon. Trying to quit while dealing with work stress and keeping up with the demands and frustrations doesn’t work. Last time I quit, I ultimately had to just do it cold turkey, and it wasn’t nearly as bad as I anticipated. After 4 days or so, I wasn’t missing it and felt more like myself in a good way. Of course Mike A is soon releasing his MitraDopa product which contains a kratom extract. It’s more than typical that it’s coming out now at the moment that I really want to quit. This is my life!

I’m afraid I likely won’t be logging my quitting process. If it goes as relatively painless as last time, it wouldn’t be much to read anyway. I basically just stop taking it...Haha! Well, I actually do supplement the process with a Kanna product, and SNS Stress and Anxiety Support was helpful. A good sleep supplement is surely beneficial as well..
 
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Well said!

I can realistically and honestly say the alcohol won’t be completely omitted, but I will do what I can. Getting back to just social drinking maybe 2-6 times a month (which is me at baseline) would be a win. keeping it at the low end to kick things off would be wise though. We’ll see..

The kratom will be something I will likely have to attack the next time I have a somewhat extended period off from work- like 3-4 days. I think I have that coming up fairly soon. Trying to quit while dealing with work stress and keeping up with the demands and frustrations doesn’t work. Last time I quit, I ultimately had to just do it cold turkey, and it wasn’t nearly as bad as I anticipated. After 4 days or so, I wasn’t missing it and felt more like myself in a good way. Of course Mike A is soon releasing his MitraDopa product which contains a kratom extract. It’s more than typical that it’s coming out now at the moment that I really want to quit. This is my life!

I’m afraid I likely won’t be logging my quitting process. If it goes as relatively painless as last time, it wouldn’t be much to read anyway. I basically just stop taking it...Haha! Well, I actually do supplement the process with a Kanna product, and SNS Stress and Anxiety Support was helpful. A good sleep supplement is surely beneficial as well..
What is this MitraDopa?
 

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I need some help/opinions guys..

I really haven’t had great libido/performance, drive to do much of anything, and pretty much all the other classic symptoms of low-T for probably the better part of 2 years now. I have always had depression/anxiety but being a healthcare worker during these times has also pushed that over the edge as well. This has led to consistent abuse of alcohol and kratom during that timeframe. Last June, I thought low-T was a possibly another culprit, or a result of everything above. Through my PCP, I tested out as:

Total Test: 429 ng/dL
Prolactin: 6.2 ng/mL
TSH: 0.624 (whatever unit that is- which is low normal)

That was all he would test, and simply explained that I wouldn’t qualify for TRT despite being symptomatic.

More recently, I looked more into those online anti-aging clinics that offer TRT and more. So I started the process with Viking. Still feeling like ass, I had a more comprehensive test performed 8 days ago that Viking recommended/required which included CBC, PSA, liver enzymes etc…all normal. The one thing that was a bit off was my fasting glucose at 104- which I found a bit surprising. So now, the more interesting results that were also unexpected for me..

Total Test: 661 ng/dL
Estradiol: 26 pg/mL
FSH: 7.9
LH: 3.9
(unfortunately free test and cortisol was not part of the test)

I definitely wasn’t expecting my T to be this kind of a respectable number- particularly given my Kratom and alcohol habits. For the record, I just recently turned 46 years old, and I was born and identify as a male. :cool:

So I was actually quite excited to get on the TRT wagon until I got my results. Now I am questioning if it would be foolish of me to not be encouraged by my test results and just continue focusing my efforts at getting my kratom and alcohol use more controlled. On the other hand, I have always been keen to get on TRT so I can play around with “other things“ more freely. I’m certainly not opposed to enhancement and anti-aging. Love the idea of both as well as that boost in the gym.

So I question if I would regret the potentially lifelong commitment?
The obligations of donating blood to control HCT? Does everyone have to do this?

Or is this my new lease on life and feeling renewed? Maybe 661 ng/dL isn’t enough T for my body?

Thank you so much for any input and help in making this decision. My official consult is in 2 days 😲

Having just read this whole thread so far, it sounds to me like you're just looking for justification to do steroids. If that's what you want to do, crack on. Why do you feel you need permission from annonymous people on the internet? For reference, if you were to get trt here in the U.K, the NHS aim to get your levels to just over 15 nmol / l. That works out at 432 ng/dl, roughly your first, lower reading. You don't have low t.
 
Ricky10

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Having just read this whole thread so far, it sounds to me like you're just looking for justification to do steroids. If that's what you want to do, crack on. Why do you feel you need permission from annonymous people on the internet? For reference, if you were to get trt here in the U.K, the NHS aim to get your levels to just over 15 nmol / l. That works out at 432 ng/dl, roughly your first, lower reading. You don't have low t.
Well, I can assure you it’s a little more complicated than that. Otherwise I would just crack on.

Whatever ultimately comes of this, I wouldn’t be signing up with any HRT clinic here in the US that wouldn’t respect my wishes to likely be at least 900 ng/dL or whatever may end up feeling right/good for me..
 

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Well, I can assure you it’s a little more complicated than that. Otherwise I would just crack on.

Whatever ultimately comes of this, I wouldn’t be signing up with any HRT clinic here in the US that wouldn’t respect my wishes to likely be at least 900 ng/dL or whatever may end up feeling right/good for me..
@Ricky10….why don’t you find an integrative medicine practice in your area? I’ve been going to one for about 9 years now. They’re more in tune with getting your levels where they need to be for you versus prescribing a mini cycle of test like some anti-aging clinics are known for.
 
Ricky10

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@Ricky10….why don’t you find an integrative medicine practice in your area? I’ve been going to one for about 9 years now. They’re more in tune with getting your levels where they need to be for you versus prescribing a mini cycle of test like some anti-aging clinics are known for.
Sounds expensive, but it also sounds like acupuncture, chiropractic, massage, etc. While those sound nice, I guess I’m not really familiar. They do hormonal things directly?
 
Ricky10

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I am convinced my recent bloodwork was tampered with. I think my phlebotomist lady who was growing a beard threw a little of her own blood in those vials. It would explain everything..
 
GreenMachineX

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I am convinced my recent bloodwork was tampered with. I think my phlebotomist lady who was growing a beard threw a little of her own blood in those vials. It would explain everything..
Have you ordered that free test from discountedlabs?
Then you can absolutely rule this out.
 

sammpedd88

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Sounds expensive, but it also sounds like acupuncture, chiropractic, massage, etc. While those sound nice, I guess I’m not really familiar. They do hormonal things directly?
Yes they do hormone therapy. The one I go to in my area accepts my insurance and my copay is the same amount as a regular family doctor. I’m prescribed test cyp and arimidex through them.
 
Ricky10

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Have you ordered that free test from discountedlabs?
Then you can absolutely rule this out.
No, my next step was going to be to inquire about any additional labs other top online clinics would want, so I could do them all at once if needed. Like DHEA, Cortisol, TSH (or whatever) along with the free test and SHBG. I just haven’t had time to investigate..
Yes they do hormone therapy. The one I go to in my area accepts my insurance and my copay is the same amount as a regular family doctor. I’m prescribed test cyp and arimidex through them.
That’s sweet!

With my luck, they would just send me home with a yoga mat and a daily stretching routine. Along with a $400 bill that will apply toward my deductible. This is my life..
 

sammpedd88

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No, my next step was going to be to inquire about any additional labs other top online clinics would want, so I could do them all at once if needed. Like DHEA, Cortisol, TSH (or whatever) along with the free test and SHBG. I just haven’t had time to investigate..

That’s sweet!

With my luck, they would just send me home with a yoga mat and a daily stretching routine. Along with a $400 bill that will apply toward my deductible. This is my life..
It may be worth a call to my dr’s office to see if they can recommend one in your area. If you want it, I’ll PM it to you.

BTW…they don’t prescribe yoga!
 

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Recently hopped on trt at 100mg a week after bloods were 0.3 nmol free test and total test was under mid range.

Have to say I feel million times better....with mood, sleep, energy, recovery, less fatigued/brain fog.

I actually look forward to my 2 x a week shots. At 47 I'm not having anymore kids so it makes sense to me.
 
Rostam

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Recently hopped on trt at 100mg a week after bloods were 0.3 nmol free test and total test was under mid range.

Have to say I feel million times better....with mood, sleep, energy, recovery, less fatigued/brain fog.

I actually look forward to my 2 x a week shots. At 47 I'm not having anymore kids so it makes sense to me.
Is it an auto administered TRT?
 
Kronic

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I think you need to include free test and SHBG to see if you should really be feeling good or not. otherwise I'd say consider cycling enclomiphene or fadogia before jumping on permanent TRT
 
Godstrength

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Thanks for the comments so far. I should have been more clear though as the kratom and drinking aren’t the major factors behind why I am seeking out input. I can quit those “relatively“ easily and am in the process of doing so.
There is no doubt I will feel better off both of those, but I also know I won’t feel like I did 10 or 15 years ago. I also can’t help but think that having higher (maybe real high) test will make me feel dramatically better itself and decrease my urges to seek out other substances like kratom and alcohol, and make me more capable of better handling work and life challenges. I am far from against enhancing my baseline and a large part of me is not all that excited about having good numbers ”for a 46 year old.”

Given the reality of my numbers though ;), it just feels more reckless than if I had tested 200-300s (which is where I thought I would be) because then it would have been a much clearer choice to proceed with the TRT process. While I welcome enhancement, I don’t want to do something entirely stupid either.

So I guess I am looking for more comments on those levels and what it is like for various people who have committed to TRT. Do you hate pinning twice a week (or more) for the rest of your life? Do you dread the need to regularly donate blood, and does everyone have to do this?
There's actual studies on AAS causing MORE addictive behaviors not less. I know for sure there is a positive correlation that was studied with Deca and I could probably dig that up for you. Basically the hormones wire the brain to make decisions that involve risky behavior more likely. That said a little test isn't going to kill you. However the alcohol is a CNS depressant and you're taking anti-depressants which can cause sexual sides all on their own. And the kratom, ah the fcking crap everybody hates to love. Good luck buddy, I think treatment (therapy) can be helpful in addressing some of your issues. The drugs (anti-depressants particuliarly) where created as a short term solution to help people through periods of trauma or grief. They weren't meant to be taken forever and always. Id say go for the test even with those numbers, but check your other areas especially the alcohol with the AD.
 

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