Thoughts on YK-11 "displacing" DHT?

[Dmzjne]

Hello again. In the process of researching YK as I just picked up 50 ml. Since the literature is basically non existence on this compound, I have resorted to user feedback. It seems that people are in disagreement however, on the subject of YK having the ability to "occupy" receptors. But wouldn't that make ALL other hormones useless? And some people have gone as far to say "displacing" dht from its receptor site?!

I have heard that YK will "act" like DHT in body, but is this just bro science? I always thought YK-11 was a 19 Nor, therefore it should have synergy with DHT and not displace it. I have also heard you shouldn't stack YK with other sarms, because it will just occupy the AR and not allow for other sarms to bind? Any truth to this or just pure bro science?

 

[KvanH]

I don't know much about YK-11 and if it's like a dht or if it's a 19-nor or neither, but generally the fear of occupying all androgen receptors is bs. Stacking sarms and stacking aas and stacking PH's has been done for decades with success (well sarms are relatively new, but all the same in this regard).

 

[Dmzjne]

This would make the most sense. The amount of speculation around this compound is ridiculous. I have ran YK-11 before, but only for a few weeks as I wasn't running AAS yet. Noticed some minor improvements, but my training and diet were nothing spectacular at the time.

Looking to run this in my "mini cycle" coming up shortly. YK/ Osta/ S4/Trest. Also will be running low dose of epiandro/ androsterone to keep my estrogen in check, and GW 0742

 

[KvanH]

What do you mean by a mini cycle? Don't make it too short or you'll just get the negatives without much of the positives. If you want to keep it short make it 8 weeks or 6 weeks at minimun, imo. Not completely sure about Trest, but especially with the other compounds I'm expecting low E issues rather than needing to lower it. Should allways have an AI on hand though in any case.

Also I don't know what the Osta would bring to that stack.

 

[UNX]

If YK-11 has more affinity than DHT for the androgen receptor, it will displace DHT. That doesn't mean YK-11 will occupy all receptors.

 

[Dmzjne]

What do you mean by a mini cycle? Don't make it too short or you'll just get the negatives without much of the positives. If you want to keep it short make it 8 weeks or 6 weeks at minimun, imo. Not completely sure about Trest, but especially with the other compounds I'm expecting low E issues rather than needing to lower it. Should allways have an AI on hand though in any case.

Also I don't know what the Osta would bring to that stack.

It's actually mk-29, or Ostarine with an ester. Apparently it increases the bioavailability and half life substantially. I'm adding this to keep my blood levels stable, as YK/ S4/ Trest all have relatively short half lives.

The idea behind the "mini cycle" is just maintain muscle, and gain strength. I was blasting/ cruising for the last two years, but decided to PCT as I'm only 35 and needed a break from AAS. PCT went fairly smooth and just taking another few weeks off before proposed mini cycle.

Estrogen is still a bit a high going into this, but I prefer to keep some estrogen in my body. I'm against the use of AI's unless absolutely necessary, and wouldn't touch them unless I'm running a gram of test! This is just my preference. Having AI's "on hand" is sound advice for any cycle. The Trest is just there to keep some estrogen in my body, as you pointed out the other compounds could possibly lower/ crash estrogen. Will be low to moderate dosing for everything. The idea is just maintain the size and strength gains made over the last two years on AAS. Also working towards a 1350 total

 

[Dmzjne]

O

If YK-11 has more affinity than DHT for the androgen receptor, it will displace DHT. That doesn't mean YK-11 will occupy all receptors.

Ok does this mean ALL DHT will be displaced, or just some? Should I avoid taking dht compounds whilst taking YK? Since YK is a 19-nor, could this just be a "ceiling effect" from high dosing like 20 - 30 mg a day?

 

[KvanH]

O


Ok does this mean ALL DHT will be displaced, or just some? Should I avoid taking dht compounds whilst taking YK? Since YK is a 19-nor, could this just be a "ceiling effect" from high dosing like 20 - 30 mg a day?

Plenty of receptors for YK-11, dht, test and anything else that binds to androgen receptors for simultaneous use. In theory there could be a saturation level, but I don't know how much drugs would that take to be achieved. Certainly the lack of receptors where to bind to would not be the biggest concern.

 

[Dmzjne]

Plenty of receptors for YK-11, dht, test and anything else that binds to androgen receptors for simultaneous use. In theory there could be a saturation level, but I don't know how much drugs would that take to achieve. Certainly the lack of receptors where to bind to would not be the biggest concern.

Excellent, thank you! This was my biggest concern, just from reading all the rubbish and misinformation floating around the internet. Since I'm stacking YK with other sarms, and after reading this post I will keep the dosage at 10 mgs. Thanks bro

 

[Ar0usal]

Whats even weirder about YK11 is how results vary. Heard some people talk about how they blew up on it better than superdrol and others who barely feel the effects. And then people spread all through the middle. Whats even weirder is the logs that have people blow up the most have the least suppression and the ones who barely feel the effects have the most. Idk if its bunk products, bad logs, or 1000 other things but I've never seen a compound be discussed like YK11. Might have to try it myself one day.

 

[Dmzjne]

Whats even weirder about YK11 is how results vary. Heard some people talk about how they blew up on it better than superdrol and others who barely feel the effects. And then people spread all through the middle. Whats even weirder is the logs that have people blow up the most have the least suppression and the ones who barely feel the effects have the most. Idk if its bunk products, bad logs, or 1000 other things but I've never seen a compound be discussed like YK11. Might have to try it myself one day.

I have had decent success with YK before. But much like a handful of other sarms, the exact mechanism of action is unknown. Gtx even gave this reason for Ostarine failing phase two clinical trials in 2012. Gtx said "the exact mechanism of action is yet to be fully understood."

However YK never even made it to clinical trials, as the increase in follistatin could easily inhibit/ promote pre existing cancer conditions. Basically the effects of Follistatin and therefore YK-11, will have the most risk involved compared to other/ even partially understood sarms. From my personal experience though Osta/S4/ YK-11 are the only sarms worth taking. YK-11 being the most novel as it gene selective

 

[KvanH]

I have had decent success with YK before. But much like a handful of other sarms, the exact mechanism of action is unknown. Gtx even gave this reason for Ostarine failing phase two clinical trials in 2012. Gtx said "the exact mechanism of action is yet to be fully understood."

However YK never even made it to clinical trials, as the increase in follistatin could easily inhibit/ promote pre existing cancer conditions. Basically the effects of Follistatin and therefore YK-11, will have the most risk involved compared to other/ even partially understood sarms. From my personal experience though Osta/S4/ YK-11 are the only sarms worth taking. YK-11 being the most novel as it gene selective

Osta is pretty meh imo. What about Rad and LGD? Those are pretty well touted.

 

[Hyde]

Whenever you signal the AR and successfully cause new muscle growth, the body creates MORE androgen receptors. This is why the theory of receptor saturation is bullsh*t. But with more receptors comes a need for more total mg to occupy those receptors. It’s a system of checks and balances. Take drugs -> make more muscle and AR -> need more drugs or a break keep adding more muscle. And that’s not even getting into myostatin or any other rate limiters well over my head.

But the TLDR: you can’t saturate your AR effectively, so stack away, but you do need to take breaks from blasts - you can’t grow endlessly, even if health wasn’t an issue.

 

[Dmzjne]

Osta is pretty meh imo. What about Rad and LGD? Those are pretty well touted.

Ostarine by definition of a SARM is worthless. But Ostarine for performance enhancing and bodybuilding is a different story. 20 - 30 mg for an advanced guy won't be enough. However 50 - 60 mg Ostarine (without test), gave me strength and size gains comparable to Tbol/ Hdrol. Side effects obviously were present, but to be expected. I have to look more into this Mk-29, before I start taking it. Apparently they changed the chemical structure by adding an ester. Could just be a sourcing issue though, seeing how Ostarine became illegal in China. But by adding the ester, it could increase the bioavailability therefore making it more stable in the blood, longer half life, and less side effects.

Rad 140 for sure has clinical application, and still currently in phase one clinical trials for; muscle wasting, osteoporosis, and treatment of AR/ER positive breast cancer. For me though, its only application would be to keep the prostate healthy during times of AAS use. Even the higher dose of Rad, (20 - 30 mg) did nothing for my performance, strength, or size. Maybe for a first cycle someone could attribute decent gains from this. But RAD will also effect lipid profile and cause liver damage, so IMO the sides vs gains is not worth it.

Lgd 4033 actually passed clinical trials and currently under development for muscle wasting and osteoporosis. However the highest dose given in clinical setting is only 1 mg. If Viking/ Ligand used 10 mg (muscle building dose), can guarantee you LGD would not have made it past clinical trails. I can't find the exact literature at the moment, but upon metabolic studies done on Lgd 4033 EIGHT metabolites were found. Six of them are not recognized by any metabolic process found in the body. Not to mention the case study of severe, LGD induced hepatotoxicity. From a college student only taking 10 mg for a mere two weeks. However genetic abnormalties that could have predisposed said individual, were not tested for. Nor the actual product itself.

Since LGD has very little activity at the AR, regardless of its binding affinity; It works instead, through its metabolic pathways by selectively targeting muscle tissue and bone. Personally I wouldn't touch stuff. Last time I did cycle it though, the side effects were on par with the above research; severe brain fog and lethargy. While the gains in muscle were poor, and strength non existent

 

[Dmzjne]

Whenever you signal the AR and successfully cause new muscle growth, the body creates MORE androgen receptors. This is why the theory of receptor saturation is bullsh*t. But with more receptors comes a need for more total mg to occupy those receptors. It’s a system of checks and balances. Take drugs -> make more muscle and AR -> need more drugs or a break keep adding more muscle. And that’s not even getting into myostatin or any other rate limiters well over my head.

But the TLDR: you can’t saturate your AR effectively, so stack away, but you do need to take breaks from blasts - you can’t grow endlessly, even if health wasn’t an issue.

Holy crap HYDE commenting on my thread! Your a legend over here man!

This is why I am taking currently taking a break, lol. But this makes very good sense. The more actual muscle created; would require more AR receptors and I'm assuming more superficial veins to be created. In order to properly transport blood and nutrients into the new muscle tissue

 

[KvanH]

Ostarine by definition of a SARM is worthless. But Ostarine for performance enhancing and bodybuilding is a different story. 20 - 30 mg for an advanced guy won't be enough. However 50 - 60 mg Ostarine (without test), gave me strength and size gains comparable to Tbol/ Hdrol. Side effects obviously were present, but to be expected. I have to look more into this Mk-29, before I start taking it. Apparently they changed the chemical structure by adding an ester. Could just be a sourcing issue though, seeing how Ostarine became illegal in China. But by adding the ester, it could increase the bioavailability therefore making it more stable in the blood, longer half life, and less side effects.

Rad 140 for sure has clinical application, and still currently in phase one clinical trials for; muscle wasting, osteoporosis, and treatment of AR/ER positive breast cancer. For me though, its only application would be to keep the prostate healthy during times of AAS use. Even the higher dose of Rad, (20 - 30 mg) did nothing for my performance, strength, or size. Maybe for a first cycle someone could attribute decent gains from this. But RAD will also effect lipid profile and cause liver damage, so IMO the sides vs gains is not worth it.

Lgd 4033 actually passed clinical trials and currently under development for muscle wasting and osteoporosis. However the highest dose given in clinical setting is only 1 mg. If Viking/ Ligand used 10 mg (muscle building dose), can guarantee you LGD would not have made it past clinical trails. I can't find the exact literature at the moment, but upon metabolic studies done on Lgd 4033 EIGHT metabolites were found. Six of them are not recognized by any metabolic process found in the body. Not to mention the case study of severe, LGD induced hepatotoxicity. From a college student only taking 10 mg for a mere two weeks. However genetic abnormalties that could have predisposed said individual, were not tested for. Nor the actual product itself.

Since LGD has very little activity at the AR, regardless of its binding affinity; It works instead, through its metabolic pathways by selectively targeting muscle tissue and bone. Personally I wouldn't touch stuff. Last time I did cycle it though, the side effects were on par with the above research; severe brain fog and lethargy. While the gains in muscle were poor, and strength non existent

Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. I'm kind of shifting to thinking that sides vs gains are not worth it regarding all sarms (when better options are available). I would portray Rad to be stronger than Osta on all aspects, but that might change when going that high on Osta. That's a lot though. I've read some studies on sarms some years ago, but mostly base my opinions on anecdotal evidence. Odd that you didn't get anything out of lgd as many get quite a lot of strenght and size from it.

 

[Ar0usal]

Osta is pretty meh imo. What about Rad and LGD? Those are pretty well touted.

Tried RAD. At 10mg recommended its sick for strength for mass it sucks so hard I gained in 8 weeks next to nothing more than I would have gained normally. A lot of people say 20-30mg rad is amazing though

 

[KvanH]

Tried RAD. At 10mg recommended its sick for strength for mass it sucks so hard I gained in 8 weeks next to nothing more than I would have gained normally. A lot of people say 20-30mg rad is amazing though

That sounds pretty common of what I've heard. I consider the 10 mg to be a minimun dose though. Rad should be good for recomping or cutting or as an add on for some mood, energy and strenght. For some reason I couldn't handle it more than 2 days. I took a 2 days break and started again super low, 1/4 of a pill - 2,5 mg of Rad, but still couldn't do more than 2 days again. Crippling anxiety and insomnia. It was from UGL though and their Tamox made me feel super shitty too so might be just a bad source. Nothing from them again.

 

[Hyde]

Holy crap HYDE commenting on my thread! Your a legend over here man!

This is why I am taking currently taking a break, lol. But this makes very good sense. The more actual muscle created; would require more AR receptors and I'm assuming more superficial veins to be created. In order to properly transport blood and nutrients into the new muscle tissue

Lol I pull my pants on one leg at a time every morning and still need a spotter when I go heavy same as you, trust me bro.

I think SARMs are especially tough to learn from others because they are spiked/faked with other stuff so often and the demographic of guys using them (typically less-experienced with AAS) can respond to anything. So someone can blow up from something like LGD and you never can be sure it wasn’t just methyltest or the like. I mean there are very trustworthy and legit RC companies out there, but there are more that are fly-by-night operations putting out products that are single run and never get validated. Probably an unrelated derail, but just an observation on the variation in effects seen between users of the same SARM.

 

[thebigt]

Lol I pull my pants on one leg at a time every morning and still need a spotter when I go heavy same as you, trust me bro.

I think SARMs are especially tough to learn from others because they are spiked/faked with other stuff so often and the demographic of guys using them (typically less-experienced with AAS) can respond to anything. So someone can blow up from something like LGD and you never can be sure it wasn’t just methyltest or the like. I mean there are very trustworthy and legit RC companies out there, but there are more that are fly-by-night operations putting out products that are single run and never get validated. Probably an unrelated derail, but just an observation on the variation in effects seen between users of the same SARM.

take a bow!!!

 

[Hyde]

Also, I never properly even addressed your initial question. My understanding of Yk11 is that this steroidal SARM is built off of a DHT skeleton. But, similar to Anadrol in this regard, tends to act more like a cross between a DHT & 19-Nor in real life application. Aggression, strength, pumps, fullness, lean mass, nutrient repartitioning. I have heard comparisons to a lighter combo of effects somewhere between Winstrol, Tren, Anadrol. Some guys have reported elevated prolactin with it.

I have some but it’s a little bit of a liability to use it going into a comp so not sure when I will get to try it.

 

[Dmzjne]

Tried RAD. At 10mg recommended its sick for strength for mass it sucks so hard I gained in 8 weeks next to nothing more than I would have gained normally. A lot of people say 20-30mg rad is amazing though

How far are you into lifting?? Stats? Just curiou

That sounds pretty common of what I've heard. I consider the 10 mg to be a minimun dose though. Rad should be goodxö for recomping or cutting or add on for some mood, energy and strenght. For some reason I couldn't handle it more than 2 days. I took a 2 days break and started again super low, 1/4 of a pill - 2,5 mg of Rad, but still couldn't do more than 2 days again. Crippling anxiety and insomnia. It was from UGL though and their Tamox made me feel super shitty too so might be just a bad source. Nothing from them again.

Tamoxifen always makes me feel like super ****! Haha I won't touch the stuff. Its hard to describe, almost like a numb feeling in my brain.

But I agree with you, most sarms are just not worth the side effect profile. RAD is the most suppressive sarm, much worse than LGD and Ostarine. S23 and RAD are both crazy suppressive, even while running test. I won't touch the stuff anymore. However RAD was very impressive in terms of muscle hardness and definition, giving the muscle that really aesthetic look

 

[Renew1]

How far are you into lifting?? Stats? Just curiou


Tamoxifen always makes me feel like super ****! Haha I won't touch the stuff. Its hard to describe, almost like a numb feeling in my brain.

But I agree with you, most sarms are just not worth the side effect profile. RAD is the most suppressive sarm, much worse than LGD and Ostarine. S23 and RAD are both crazy suppressive, even while running test. I won't touch the stuff anymore. However RAD was very impressive in terms of muscle hardness and definition, giving the muscle that really aesthetic look

Remember, brother ... Test won't decrease suppression.
... Only add to it.

 

[Dmzjne]

Remember, brother ... Test won't decrease suppression.
... Only add to it.

Agreed! I was only taking 250 mg of T. And this was during a cruise, that I was partially shutdown going into. This was a few years back.

After that I realized no more suppressive compounds during a cruise

 

[Dmzjne]

Also, I never properly even addressed your initial question. My understanding of Yk11 is that this steroidal SARM is built off of a DHT skeleton. But, similar to Anadrol in this regard, tends to act more like a cross between a DHT & 19-Nor in real life application. Aggression, strength, pumps, fullness, lean mass, nutrient repartitioning. I have heard comparisons to a lighter combo of effects somewhere between Winstrol, Tren, Anadrol. Some guys have reported elevated prolactin with it.

I have some but it’s a little bit of a liability to use it going into a comp so not sure when I will get to try it.

Interesting as I have no experience with Anadrol. But I know its a DHT compound that has very little interaction with the AR, and works through another mechanism of action.

This sounds like YK would be stellar for strength gains. After reading this I will most likely bump the YK to 20 mg. And getting some Inhibit P.

Btw when is your next meet?? What are going for?

 

[Ar0usal]

How far are you into lifting?? Stats? Just curiou

Took rad about 1.5 years into lifting. 71kg (started at 60 bulked to 80 cut to 69). 6'0. On cycle I went from 69 to 73 most most was water/glycogen and post PCT I got to 71 which I feel like I could have got to naturally over those 3 months. Most good reports I hear of people blowing up on RAD tend to come from people < 1 year of training and alot < 6 months. Feel like a lot of people just control diet more on cycle for the first time or they are still getting noob gains and confusing it. For strength it's awesome and if I was cutting, rad/ostarine would be way better than any real aas I feel but I'll have to put that to test. Higher doses have good reports but its so cost ineffective.

 

[KvanH]

Took rad about 1.5 years into lifting. 71kg (started at 60 bulked to 80 cut to 69). 6'0. On cycle I went from 69 to 73 most most was water/glycogen and post PCT I got to 71 which I feel like I could have got to naturally over those 3 months. Most good reports I hear of people blowing up on RAD tend to come from people < 1 year of training and alot < 6 months. Feel like a lot of people just control diet more on cycle for the first time or they are still getting noob gains and confusing it. For strength it's awesome and if I was cutting, rad/ostarine would be way better than any real aas I feel but I'll have to put that to test. Higher doses have good reports but its so cost ineffective.

"Most good reports I hear of people blowing up on RAD tend to come from people < 1 year of training and alot < 6 months"

That is just sad, imo.

"Feel like a lot of people just control diet more on cycle"

I think this is very true. Even myself lifting for 13 years now I allways step everything up a notch and try to do everything perfect, when running anything hormonal.

"if I was cutting, rad/ostarine would be way better than any real aas I feel but I'll have to put that to test"

No. But you'll see if you do put it to test.

 

[KvanH]

Lol I pull my pants on one leg at a time every morning-

10 points for amusement!

 

[Hyde]

Agreed! I was only taking 250 mg of T. And this was during a cruise, that I was partially shutdown going into. This was a few years back.

After that I realized no more suppressive compounds during a cruise

I think you are missing what Renew is saying, or what you are defining as suppression is not actually suppression: all AAS and SARMs, anything that will tell the HPTA through feedback that it no longer needs to produce more endogenous testosterone, is what we mean when we say “suppressive”. Some stronger compounds tend to be “more suppressive”, in that they more quickly stop your natural production, but enough of anything consistently will stop it. You can cycle bottles of DHEA from the supermarket and it will drop off your natural test in time.

When you are shut down you are shut down - but some compounds can make you feel lethargic, foggy, exhausted even if you are using exogenous testosterone with them. I ASSUME this is what you are actually referring to with RAD. It doesn’t make you feel good, even using test. Is that correct?

Btw when is your next meet?? What are going for?

A little less than 12 weeks, mid June. Hoping to PR my best 242 sleeves total (~1,503) or at least hit some 242 PRs - bench is looking very promising. Kind of a tune up to start bulking back up towards another 275 meet late in the year, where I will be trying to exceed my PR of 1,603 there.

 

[Dmzjne]

Took rad about 1.5 years into lifting. 71kg (started at 60 bulked to 80 cut to 69). 6'0. On cycle I went from 69 to 73 most most was water/glycogen and post PCT I got to 71 which I feel like I could have got to naturally over those 3 months. Most good reports I hear of people blowing up on RAD tend to come from people < 1 year of training and alot < 6 months. Feel like a lot of people just control diet more on cycle for the first time or they are still getting noob gains and confusing it. For strength it's awesome and if I was cutting, rad/ostarine would be way better than any real aas I feel but I'll have to put that to test. Higher doses have good reports but its so cost ineffective.

"Most good reports I hear of people blowing up on RAD tend to come from people < 1 year of training and alot < 6 months"

That is just sad, imo.

"Feel like a lot of people just control diet more on cycle"

I think this is very true. Even myself lifting for 13 years now I allways step everything up a notch and try to do everything perfect, when runnin anything hormonal.

"if I was cutting, rad/ostarine would be way better than any real aas I feel but I'll have to put that to test"

No. But you'll see if you do put it to test.

I had already been training 10 + years, and ran a few DS before taking RAD/ or any SARM for that matter. Could explain my underwhelming experience. However diet, training, and sleep are major factors that could make or break any cycle. I wouldn't run anything; sarms, DS, AAS; without being certain I will contribute 100 percent. No drinking, no smoking, no going out at night. To me running anabolics is a responsibility. For your own body, health, and for how you carry yourself. It took me 15 + years of training to finally get this mentality ingrained in my brain. But to me? Its not worth taking anabolics unless I can contribute 100 percent to them.

As for cutting on Rad/ Osta? What's the point of cutting, unless you plan on stepping on the bodybuilding stage? Personally I have always been an ectomorph, but still not anywhere near my genetic limit. In this regard, the idea of "cutting" is most likely holding people back. Restricting calories and too much cardio/ weight training will raise your cortisol, having a cascade of negative effects. Just IMO, and I'm 6 " between 210 and 220 lb. If someone was cutting in order to compete in bodybuilding? They most likely have already reached their genetic limit. However RAD would work remarkably well for this purpose. In ADDITION to AAS, CLEN, T3 what have you

 

[KvanH]

I had already been training 10 + years, and ran a few DS before taking RAD/ or any SARM for that matter. Could explain my underwhelming experience. However diet, training, and sleep are major factors that could make or break any cycle. I wouldn't run anything; sarms, DS, AAS; without being certain I will contribute 100 percent. No drinking, no smoking, no going out at night. To me running anabolics is a responsibility. For your own body, health, and for how you carry yourself. It took me 15 + years of training to finally get this mentality ingrained in my brain. But to me? Its not worth taking anabolics unless I can contribute 100 percent to them.

As for cutting on Rad/ Osta? What's the point of cutting, unless you plan on stepping on the bodybuilding stage? Personally I have always been an ectomorph, but still not anywhere near my genetic limit. In this regard, the idea of "cutting" is most likely holding people back. Restricting calories and too much cardio/ weight training will raise your cortisol, having a cascade of negative effects. Just IMO, and I'm 6 " between 210 and 220 lb. If someone was cutting in order to compete in bodybuilding? They most likely have already reached their genetic limit. However RAD would work remarkably well for this purpose. In ADDITION to AAS, CLEN, T3 what have you

Completely agree on the first paragraph, but don't get your idea on the second at all?

The point of cutting can be:
-looking better / more athletic
-to be more athletic perfomance wise
-to be more healthy
-to be able to do/enjoy some activities better

To me it's the same as asking what's the point of building muscle.

 

[Dmzjne]

I think you are missing what Renew is saying, or what you are defining as suppression is not actually suppression: all AAS and SARMs, anything that will tell the HPTA through feedback that it no longer needs to produce more endogenous testosterone, is what we mean when we say “suppressive”. Some stronger compounds tend to be “more suppressive”, in that they more quickly stop your natural production, but enough of anything consistently will stop it. You can cycle bottles of DHEA from the supermarket and it will drop off your natural test in time.

When you are shut down you are shut down - but some compounds can make you feel lethargic, foggy, exhausted even if you are using exogenous testosterone with them. I ASSUME this is what you are actually referring to with RAD. It doesn’t make you feel good, even using test. Is that correct?



A little less than 12 weeks, mid June. Hoping to PR my best 242 sleeves total (~1,503) or at least hit some 242 PRs - bench is looking very promising. Kind of a tune up to start bulking back up towards another 275 meet late in the year, where I will be trying to exceed my PR of 1,603 there.

Very nice bro! Thank you for sharing those numbers. I'm recently start to work on powerlifting, since my plans to compete in bbing have been derailed. Currently working on BOTH. I absolutely love powerlifting though, nothing more beast mode then lifting 2 to 3 times your bodyweight! Strength is too be respected. As opposed to many bodybuilders that walk around all tough ****, but can't even lift half of what you do. There is no debating strength, and only a very small percentage of humans will ever reach a 1500 total. Very good luck in your next meet bro

As for my understanding of shutdown/ suppression. I very rarely feel suppression from coumpounds, with the exception of 19 nors. I would always go into a cycle fully recovered from the last. However two years ago, I started blasting and cruising and it's an entirely different beast. But your correct. That I was most likely shutdown/ very suppressed, going into RAD and S23. No such thing as "partial shutdown." But I'm still learning, lol.

Back to powerlifting. I'm looking to add 100 lbs to my total in the next few months. It would put me at 1300 weighing 210 lbs. Deadlift is looking promising and maybe will get me to 1350 total

 

[Dmzjne]

Completely agree on the first paragraph, but don't get your idea on the second at all?

The point of cutting can be:
-looking better / more athletic
-to be more athletic perfomance wise
-to be more healthy
-to be able to do/enjoy some activities better

To me it's the same as asking what's the point of building muscle.

I think it is largely a matter of body type and individual goals. Cutting usually works against muscle building and strength progression. I stay around 12 percent body fat, for most of the year. I have a crazy high metabolism/ ectomorph disposition

 

[KvanH]

I think it is largely a matter of body type and individual goals. Cutting usually works against muscle building and strength progression. I stay around 12 percent body fat, for most of the year. I have a crazy high metabolism/ ectomorph disposition

You are correct. But there are many reasons and situations for people to be cutting, as I listed a few. Most of the time we have to accept some fat gain when gaining muscle as we need to be eating a surplus. Even with AAS in the picture. If not cutting every once in a while we just end up fat. How lean a person want's to be is matter of preference and their business. Or if not caring about bf at all - again their business. But most people who lift to build muscle like to be semi lean. You are correct cutting works against gaining size, but when cutting the the goal is to not loose muscle, so the end result will be 'better'.

I do 2 cuts a year and have been doing so years. Before that I did 1 cutting phase a year. I myself could not stay on 12% bf, if have any hopes of gaining size and possibly strenght even. But to stay around 12% bf all year like you do would be awesome, if I could progress on other aspects as well.

 

[Dmzjne]

"I ASSUME this is what you are actually referring to with RAD. It doesn’t make you feel good, even using test. Is that correct?"

RAD actually made me feel better; in terms of energy and well being, upon adding RAD to my test. No complaints except maybe elevated liver enzymes/ LDL. RAD apparently, will antagonize T from binding to the seminal vessel in the prostate.

However saw nothing from RAD, in terms of actual muscle building/ OR performance enhancement/ strength gains. I suppose a little aggression, but usually pretty aggressive to begin with. Otherwise I can't attribute any substantial benefit, that RAD would have over YK-11/ S4

 

[BCseacow83]

Good discussion here. Yk-11 is based on a 19-nor/progestin base/skeleton

(17alpha,20E)-17,20-((1-Methoxyethylidene)bis(oxy))-3-oxo-19-norpregna-4,20-diene-21-carboxylic acid methyl ester

 

[Hyde]

RAD actually made me feel better; in terms of energy and well being, upon adding RAD to my test. No complaints except maybe elevated liver enzymes/ LDL. RAD apparently, will antagonize T from binding to the seminal vessel in the prostate.

However saw nothing from RAD, in terms of actual muscle building/ OR performance enhancement/ strength gains. I suppose a little aggression, but usually pretty aggressive to begin with. Otherwise I can't attribute any substantial benefit, that RAD would have over YK-11/ S4

Rad will also antagonize estrogen receptors in the chest and help control gyno (same way it helps protect the prostate). I also experience energy, well-being, aggession, and definitely strength. Lean mass gains are insubstantial, but there is better nutrient partitioning and pumps - what most people don’t realize because they don’t get lean enough is the hardening.

My wife was at her leanest ever the cycle she was using RAD in the mix and the pictures from then are just gnarly. The striations and hardness she had were exceptional.

Between our experiences, I feel it’s a potential precomp strength/aggression option, or in a cutting/hardening stack for someone doing a physique competition who won’t use Winstrol due to hair or lipid concerns.

I’m not saying it’s safe for women, or anyone, but they’ve given up to 150mg to women in a recent study and 50-100mg/day for months was reasonably tolerated by a majority. Not looking at virilization, just bloodwork.

Good discussion here. Yk-11 is based on a 19-nor/progestin base/skeleton

(17alpha,20E)-17,20-((1-Methoxyethylidene)bis(oxy))-3-oxo-19-norpregna-4,20-diene-21-carboxylic acid methyl ester

Thank you! I am not a chemical guy and never even read it til now but there it is, plain as day. Great to know.

 

[Ar0usal]

As for cutting on Rad/ Osta? What's the point of cutting, unless you plan on stepping on the bodybuilding stage? Personally I have always been an ectomorph, but still not anywhere near my genetic limit. In this regard, the idea of "cutting" is most likely holding people back. Restricting calories and too much cardio/ weight training will raise your cortisol, having a cascade of negative effects. Just IMO, and I'm 6 " between 210 and 220 lb. If someone was cutting in order to compete in bodybuilding? They most likely have already reached their genetic limit. However RAD would work remarkably well for this purpose. In ADDITION to AAS, CLEN, T3 what have you

You look better. Ideally when I get enough size ill maintain a much lower body fat. 10/9% over 13/14%

 

[Dmzjne]

Rad will also antagonize estrogen receptors in the chest and help control gyno (same way it helps protect the prostate). I also experience energy, well-being, aggession, and definitely strength. Lean mass gains are insubstantial, but there is better nutrient partitioning and pumps - what most people don’t realize because they don’t get lean enough is the hardening.

My wife was at her leanest ever the cycle she was using RAD in the mix and the pictures from then are just gnarly. The striations and hardness she had were exceptional.

Between our experiences, I feel it’s a potential precomp strength/aggression option, or in a cutting/hardening stack for someone doing a physique competition who won’t use Winstrol due to hair or lipid concerns.

Agreed. The muscles get a nice hardening/ grainy effect. Similar to winstrol, but much better/ cleaner look on RAD. Interesting how they used 150 mg in those studies! Never heard of anything over 30 mg.

RAD by definition of a SARM is very promising.

 

[Dmzjne]

You look better. Ideally when I get enough size ill maintain a much lower body fat. 10/9% over 13/14%

If your cutting only 2% bodyfat, why not just stay at 10% bodyfat?

Its possible to gain new muscle and stay lean. Some people claim, it's even possible in a calorie deficit

 

[KvanH]

If your cutting only 2% bodyfat, why not just stay at 10% bodyfat?

Its possible to gain new muscle and stay lean. Some people claim, it's even possible in a calorie deficit

I believe both to be true. But depends on the experience level and the mm the subject already has and if and what gear is used. But those still apply mostly to short time spans imo, a cycle, a run. On a practical level it's difficult to be gaining muscle with little to no fat gain in a year for example. And what is even more important I think, is that even if possible, it's not optimal. If you want to gain as much muscle as possible in a let's say 6 months, you'll have better succes doing a gaining phase of 4 to 5 months where you eat well above maintenance (not intentionally trying to gain fat though) followed by a 1 to 2 months cutting phase where you loose the fat gained and just preserve the muscle made. Rather than doing a super lean gaining phase of 6 months where you don't gain any fat. This is my opinion and understanding for most people and situations.

 

[Dmzjne]

I believe both to be true. But depends on the experience level and the mm the subject already has and if and what gear is used. But those still apply mostly to short time spans imo, a cycle, a run. In a practical level it's difficult to be gaining muscle little to no fat in a year for example. And what is even more important I think, is that even if possible, it's not optimal. If you want to gain as much muscle in a let's say 6 months, you'll have better succes doing a gaining phase of 4 to 5 months where you eat well above maintenance (not intentionally trying to gain fat though) followed by a 1 to 2 months cut phase where you loose the fat gained and just preserve the muscle made. Rather than doing a super lean gaining phase of 6 months where you don't gain any fat. This is my opinion and understanding for most people and situations.

Agree completely on said individuals goals/ lifting experience/ cycle experience. An advanced guy can maintain the mass he already has, while staying lean and still making gains (albeit slower). While someone that isn't even close to their genetic limit, would not be able to accomplish this. Also said individuals genetics and body type.

For most guys staying that lean is unsustainable and may have negligible effects during a bulking phase. But it IS possible with proper nutrition, training, supplements and a fundamental understanding of human biology