Tell Us What You Would Like to See From SNS & CEL (2022 Edition)

sns8778

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Steve, have you looked into Zynamite (a branded mango leaf extract) https://nektium.com/zynamite/ ?

AZOTH had a standalone product with it but it sold out and hasn't been restocked. some of their other supps have it as one ingredient. LifeExtension has a supp called Brain Fog Relief that has it w/ peppermint essential oil
I have looked into it in the past but we've only ever had a couple of people ask about it.

The issue with offering it as a single ingredient is that the company that supplies it will not let you name the product anything with it in the name; so for example, we couldn't name the product Zynamite or Zynamite XT, and we've found that in cases like that, the products won't sell well because people may not know what the product is. People that are looking for a single ingredient item to try normally are looking for that ingredient by name, so not being able to use the name itself in the product name just doesn't work well. I hope that makes sense.

I have seen that product by Life Extension with Zynamite in it and also see that its on a blow out sale from them right now so that's probably not an indicator that it sells well for them.

From the feedback that I heard on it initially, it ranged from nothing to a good energy hit with some experiencing a comedown from it and too many reports of a headache to make me very comfortable with using it in a formula (just being totally honest). When I tried it myself, I didn't get any energy from it, but I'm pretty stim tolerant so that didn't really surprise me, but I did notice that 2 out of the 3 days I tried it, I did get a headache within 3 hours. I can't say for sure that it was the product bc I have bad allergies and get sinus headaches a lot - but it just worried me, and I'll note that that was before hearing from anyone else about headaches with it so I know it wasn't mental.

If they changed their policies on it and allowed companies to use the ingredient name in the product name, I would do a small run on it to see how it sold; but I doubt they'll change that anytime soon.
 
sns8778

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I had a bottle of that and lost it!

I would definitely buy a Zynamite product again though were it to be offered. I thought Steve mentioned something about having considered it a while ago (2021 thread maybe)?

I found it hit harder than Dynamine and less crash, but also some headaches on multiple occasions.
I had just replied in detail on Zynamite before reading your post - check out my reply above as that addresses the reasons we didn't move forward on it - and also that I experienced headaches from it as well.
 
sns8778

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Is there an ETA on ClomaDex? Is DPS getting inhibit e back in stock ?
I want to clarify that you mean Cloma-Plex, I believe.

Cloma-Plex is in, we just have to fit it into the release schedule. It may be as soon as next week.

DPS will have Inhibit-E back in stock as soon as we have it back in stock; raws are finally in and its in production lineup. We're hoping it'll be here within 2 to 3 weeks. We are extremely particular about raw materials that we use in it and with the supply chain issues, one in particular hadn't been available at the quality level that we require it to be at for use. But everything is good to go now, so should be just a couple weeks.
 

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I had a bottle of that and lost it!

I would definitely buy a Zynamite product again though were it to be offered. I thought Steve mentioned something about having considered it a while ago (2021 thread maybe)?

I found it hit harder than Dynamine and less crash, but also some headaches on multiple occasions.
Wonder if anyone found the bottle randomly lol and try it without knowing what it might be (i doubt zynamite is well known to the general public). sorry to hear about the headaches. I try to not use one stim regularly and cycle them because tolerance / dependency possibilities and thought about trying Zynamite as one of them.

I have looked into it in the past but we've only ever had a couple of people ask about it.

The issue with offering it as a single ingredient is that the company that supplies it will not let you name the product anything with it in the name; so for example, we couldn't name the product Zynamite or Zynamite XT, and we've found that in cases like that, the products won't sell well because people may not know what the product is. People that are looking for a single ingredient item to try normally are looking for that ingredient by name, so not being able to use the name itself in the product name just doesn't work well. I hope that makes sense.

I have seen that product by Life Extension with Zynamite in it and also see that its on a blow out sale from them right now so that's probably not an indicator that it sells well for them.

From the feedback that I heard on it initially, it ranged from nothing to a good energy hit with some experiencing a comedown from it and too many reports of a headache to make me very comfortable with using it in a formula (just being totally honest). When I tried it myself, I didn't get any energy from it, but I'm pretty stim tolerant so that didn't really surprise me, but I did notice that 2 out of the 3 days I tried it, I did get a headache within 3 hours. I can't say for sure that it was the product bc I have bad allergies and get sinus headaches a lot - but it just worried me, and I'll note that that was before hearing from anyone else about headaches with it so I know it wasn't mental.

If they changed their policies on it and allowed companies to use the ingredient name in the product name, I would do a small run on it to see how it sold; but I doubt they'll change that anytime soon.
good reasons to not do this - thanks Steve for the explanation. and sorry to hear about the headache. Its side effects and inconsistency might have caused the poor sales for some products and companies not using it.

However, why would they not let you use their brand name? seems to be a poor business decision. it makes little sense as blasting their brand name benefits their company. Now that Sabroxy is probably better known than the substance oroxylin A and that can only be beneficial for Sabinsa. Does Zynamite's owner seriously prefer companies who use it to call it "mango leaf XT" instead of their brand name? smh
 
sns8778

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However, why would they not let you use their brand name? seems to be a poor business decision. it makes little sense as blasting their brand name benefits their company. Now that Sabroxy is probably better known than the substance oroxylin A and that can only be beneficial for Sabinsa. Does Zynamite's owner seriously prefer companies who use it to call it "mango leaf XT" instead of their brand name? smh
They would let you use the name on the supplement facts and want the logo on the label, but they won't let you use the branded ingredient name in the product name itself. And I absolutely agree, I think that it's a very poor business decision on their end bc it would allow there to be a single ingredient option for people to try, and if their ingredient is really that good, you'd think that they would want that. Plus, its really not only just free advertising, but advertising that they're making money off of .

You hit it right on the head - if we can't call it Zynamite or Zynamite XT, then why bother to do it? Because like you said, if we call it Mango Leaf XT then no one looking for Zynamite would even be thinking that would be it.

Different branded ingredient companies are different. Some love the idea of the product name being their ingredient name, some prefer we add XT after it, but a few are like the owner of Zynamite and won't allow companies to use the ingredient name in the product name and to me, most of the time that defeats the purpose of it.
 

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What does XT stand for, btw?

They would let you use the name on the supplement facts and want the logo on the label, but they won't let you use the branded ingredient name in the product name itself. And I absolutely agree, I think that it's a very poor business decision on their end bc it would allow there to be a single ingredient option for people to try, and if their ingredient is really that good, you'd think that they would want that. Plus, its really not only just free advertising, but advertising that they're making money off of .

You hit it right on the head - if we can't call it Zynamite or Zynamite XT, then why bother to do it? Because like you said, if we call it Mango Leaf XT then no one looking for Zynamite would even be thinking that would be it.

Different branded ingredient companies are different. Some love the idea of the product name being their ingredient name, some prefer we add XT after it, but a few are like the owner of Zynamite and won't allow companies to use the ingredient name in the product name and to me, most of the time that defeats the purpose of it.
 
Rocket3015

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sns8778

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What does XT stand for, btw?
It's a funny story because now days you see it used in products names for different brands, but we were the first company to ever use it in a product name as far as I know. When we first started, we had the word Xtreme in the name of some products but it wouldn't always fit on the labels properly because a product name + the word Xtreme was pretty long for a small bottle/label so we abbreviated it to XT.

We started to use it more commonly after that just as a branding thing for SNS because it helped distinguish our products. For example, if someone says - hey I used Cissus and you go type it in Google, you find a bunch; whereas if someone says, hey, I love Cissus XT, then you're looking for a specific product rather than just an ingredient.

I always kind of thought it was cool that we were the first as far as I know of to use XT and then so many bigger brands started doing it later on.
 
Rocket3015

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Cutting Edge As Always !!
 
Hyde

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@sns8778 How about something that would lower Hematocrit for us folks on TRT ? Dihydroquercetin ?
That's a subject that I've been looking into. I would love to be able to offer something like that; I just have more research to do in order to make sure that it's something that's possible.

I'd love to hear anyone's ingredient suggestions on this one.
500mg IP6 before bedtime - SNS already sells a year supply of this for $15:


I’ve heard of guys on heavier cycles using a gram, but 500mg keeps my values at the top of the range essentially. Hematocrit usually 50-52. It was 52 on over a gram of gear with some sleep apnea at the time and no phlebotomies ever.

I have heard it posited as more of a regulator than a lowering agent, but I don’t know the why’s of how it works, only that it helps.
 
BCseacow83

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Super Swole Powder will be back by the end of the year. We changed the original formula because the GlycerPump was causing clumping. We went thru flavor samples trying to get the reformulated version tasting good and couldn't get it exactly like we wanted; then I made a slight new ingredient change and we're working on getting flavor samples finalized.

But for Super Swole fans in general, there might be a capsule version coming out before then ;)
I found a bag of 10+ containers of pre's and aminos and powdered fat loss products I had cleaned off the top of the fridge and moved to the basement over a year ago. About half of them had turned into solid masses, some turned into a gel like substance and Super Swole......................................was 100% fine powder with zero clumping lol. No idea how with the ingredients being what they were but there it was still 100% useable!
 

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500mg IP6 before bedtime - SNS already sells a year supply of this for $15:


I’ve heard of guys on heavier cycles using a gram, but 500mg keeps my values at the top of the range essentially. Hematocrit usually 50-52. It was 52 on over a gram of gear with some sleep apnea at the time and no phlebotomies ever.

I have heard it posited as more of a regulator than a lowering agent, but I don’t know the why’s of how it works, only that it helps.
Is ip6 the same as regular
500mg IP6 before bedtime - SNS already sells a year supply of this for $15:


I’ve heard of guys on heavier cycles using a gram, but 500mg keeps my values at the top of the range essentially. Hematocrit usually 50-52. It was 52 on over a gram of gear with some sleep apnea at the time and no phlebotomies ever.

I have heard it posited as more of a regulator than a lowering agent, but I don’t know the why’s of how it works, only that it helps.
is ip6 same as regular Inositol? I'm looking to try 4 grams of Inositol before bed. Many people have reported a big increase with sleep and energy and decrease in depression and anxiety
 
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Rocket3015

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500mg IP6 before bedtime - SNS already sells a year supply of this for $15:


I’ve heard of guys on heavier cycles using a gram, but 500mg keeps my values at the top of the range essentially. Hematocrit usually 50-52. It was 52 on over a gram of gear with some sleep apnea at the time and no phlebotomies ever.

I have heard it posited as more of a regulator than a lowering agent, but I don’t know the why’s of how it works, only that it helps.
Good information, Thank you!
 
Rocket3015

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I found a bag of 10+ containers of pre's and aminos and powdered fat loss products I had cleaned off the top of the fridge and moved to the basement over a year ago. About half of them had turned into solid masses, some turned into a gel like substance and Super Swole......................................was 100% fine powder with zero clumping lol. No idea how with the ingredients being what they were but there it was still 100% useable!
The others you could probably throw in a blender and still use.
 
Segansational

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I found a bag of 10+ containers of pre's and aminos and powdered fat loss products I had cleaned off the top of the fridge and moved to the basement over a year ago. About half of them had turned into solid masses, some turned into a gel like substance and Super Swole......................................was 100% fine powder with zero clumping lol. No idea how with the ingredients being what they were but there it was still 100% useable!
This happened to both my tubs of Cannibal Ferox slowly over time, the gummy goo. Unusable.
 
Rocket3015

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This happened to both my tubs of Cannibal Ferox slowly over time, the gummy goo. Unusable.
I have had a few different brands do this, I still used them and they worked fine.
 

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Maybe more PWO and powder supps should be in individual packets or dissolvable tabs. Tubs of powder are not the easiest thing to work with and dropping an open tub means highly biologically active powdery substances now are flying around in the air not to mention wasting supps
 
sns8778

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Is ip6 the same as regular

is ip6 same as regular Inositol? I'm looking to try 4 grams of Inositol before bed. Many people have reported a big increase with sleep and energy and decrease in depression and anxiety
IP6 is different. Regular Inositol offers a lot of great benefits but IP6 offers a lot of very unique benefits as well that regular Inositol doesn't offer. Very very underrated ingredient.
 
sns8778

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Maybe more PWO and powder supps should be in individual packets or dissolvable tabs. Tubs of powder are not the easiest thing to work with and dropping an open tub means highly biologically active powdery substances now are flying around in the air not to mention wasting supps
Its hard to get a meaningful dose of multiple ingredients into a dissolvable tablet and would also be a very costly route for brands to go. It's very limiting.

Putting powders into individual packets a lot of times doesn't resolve clumping issues; they can still clump in the packets.
(Although not sure if you were saying to do that for clumping for just for convenience).

I have thought about doing stick packs for products in the future for Focus XT and Energized Aminos when we get them back in stock and also for the upcoming pre-workouts and things, but this can actually add to the cost per container quite a bit and the MOQ's can be very high on # of packets. So if we do ever decide to experiment with this, it'll likely be on just one flavor of one product or something like that and see how it goes.
 
sns8778

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I'm good with a tub and a scoop !
I've always been fine with the tub and scoop myself too.

I have thought about for promo items maybe doing those little funnel keychains.

Something I do for travel convenience is that I picked up some little baggies in bulk and I keep a couple of them filled with Focus XT in my laptop bag for when I want to take a serving but may be somewhere where I don't have the tub with me.
 
ndiguy

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Maybe more PWO and powder supps should be in individual packets or dissolvable tabs. Tubs of powder are not the easiest thing to work with and dropping an open tub means highly biologically active powdery substances now are flying around in the air not to mention wasting supps
Be prepared for the cost of that product to go up noticeably lol.

A tub/scooper is economical and so easy to utilize that a caveman could do it.
 
Rocket3015

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Be prepared for the cost of that product to go up noticeably lol.

A tub/scooper is economical and so easy to utilize that a caveman could do it.
That would make a great slogan for someone ??
 

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don't laugh at me lol, but i am once a while paranoid about tubs breaking and all the powder flying all over the place
 
Hyde

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don't laugh at me lol, but i am once a while paranoid about tubs breaking and all the powder flying all over the place
You’ve clearly never tried to open a sample packet of powdered preWO and had it blast all over the place. That really is a concern with those, depending on how they are made. Some tear perfectly, others suddenly give and fly open.

It’s not like I’m carrying around scissors when I’m on the go either.
 

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Anyone know of a pre made
M I C?
Next best thing to glutathione I think 🤔
 

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I don't know that I've ever had a tub break... but I've definitely knocked one over while open on the countertop lol
When that happened with all that powder mixing with surrounding air did you inhale a dangerous level of stims into lungs? 😢
 
Rocket3015

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Never broken a tub, but I have knocked a few over, what a mess !!
 
aaronuconn

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Ashwagandha Elite idea: KSM-66 + Sensoril + NooGandha. Kinda like Curcumin Elite

 

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Ashwagandha Elite idea: KSM-66 + Sensoril + NooGandha. Kinda like Curcumin Elite

I like this idea!!!
 

Jeremyk1

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Ashwagandha Elite idea: KSM-66 + Sensoril + NooGandha. Kinda like Curcumin Elite

I think Hi Tech may have something like this already.
 

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Ashwagandha Elite idea: KSM-66 + Sensoril + NooGandha. Kinda like Curcumin Elite


I like this idea!!!
Great idea.
 

mase1

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My wife likes sensoril much more but tough to find....
 

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Its hard to get a meaningful dose of multiple ingredients into a dissolvable tablet and would also be a very costly route for brands to go. It's very limiting.

Putting powders into individual packets a lot of times doesn't resolve clumping issues; they can still clump in the packets.
(Although not sure if you were saying to do that for clumping for just for convenience).

I have thought about doing stick packs for products in the future for Focus XT and Energized Aminos when we get them back in stock and also for the upcoming pre-workouts and things, but this can actually add to the cost per container quite a bit and the MOQ's can be very high on # of packets. So if we do ever decide to experiment with this, it'll likely be on just one flavor of one product or something like that and see how it goes.
Maybe I have missed it but does this hint that SNS is making a pre workout? If so, super cool!
 

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Maybe I have missed it but does this hint that SNS is making a pre workout? If so, super cool!
I think Muscle Addiction sells a PWO and it's owned by Steve (Steve correct me if wrong). Wonder if SNS main brand PWO will be a different formula?
 
Rocket3015

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??????????????

SNS

Focus XT – 30 Servings
  • Improved Mental Focus, Clarity, Concentration, and Alertness*
  • Improved Mental Performance, Memory, & Cognitive Function*
  • Maximized Energy Levels*
  • Improved Stress Levels*
  • Improved Sense of Well Being*
  • Improved Athletic Endurance, Drive, and Motivation*
  • Improved Ability to Train More Intensely for Longer Durations of Time*
  • Pre-Workout or Pre-Athletic Energy and Focus*
  • Improved Mind-Muscle Connection*
  • Combating Overtraining Syndrome*
  • Increased Fat Burning During Exercise*
  • Sugar Free and Great Tasting!
 
sns8778

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My wife likes sensoril much more but tough to find....
Sensoril is the type that we use in Stress & Anxiety Support.
 
sns8778

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Maybe I have missed it but does this hint that SNS is making a pre workout? If so, super cool!
We already have multiple pre-workout options:
  • Focus XT - great nootropic pre-workout option for people that need to be able to focus on their workout and get their mind off the distractions of day to day life.
  • VasoForce XT - stimulant free pre-workout in convenient capsule form
  • VasoForce Rush - stimulant version of VasoForce XT; it doesn't get talked about as much here on AM but feedback is great and a lot of people love it and love the convenience of it being in capsules.
  • CEL Super Swole - Powder - will be back available by the end of the year.
  • Muscle Addiction Pump Addict Ultra Hardcore - great pumps and great energy - will be back in stock in next couple weeks
In addition to the above, we are also working a flavored powder version of VasoForce XT and VasoForce Rush but the same ingredients that make them so great make them very hard to flavor. So, these will be great products and we will make them taste good - for great product standards - but in today's world of so many people buying pre-workouts bc they taste like Kool Aid, that's not gonna happen with these.

We are also working on trying to offer a different pre-workout that will be more like some of the basic pre-workouts you see on the market. It probably won't be as super exciting as the VasoForce's will be but we want to do something to cater to the customers in that market as well.
 
sns8778

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??????????????

SNS

Focus XT – 30 Servings
  • Improved Mental Focus, Clarity, Concentration, and Alertness*
  • Improved Mental Performance, Memory, & Cognitive Function*
  • Maximized Energy Levels*
  • Improved Stress Levels*
  • Improved Sense of Well Being*
  • Improved Athletic Endurance, Drive, and Motivation*
  • Improved Ability to Train More Intensely for Longer Durations of Time*
  • Pre-Workout or Pre-Athletic Energy and Focus*
  • Improved Mind-Muscle Connection*
  • Combating Overtraining Syndrome*
  • Increased Fat Burning During Exercise*
  • Sugar Free and Great Tasting!
Thank you.

I think that Focus XT is an extremely underrated pre-workout. I love taking Focus XT pre-workout + VasoForce XT or half serving of VasoForce Rush.
 
sns8778

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I think Muscle Addiction sells a PWO and it's owned by Steve (Steve correct me if wrong). Wonder if SNS main brand PWO will be a different formula?
Muscle Addiction Pump Addict Ultra Hardcore is a great product - great energy and great pumps.
(it's temporarily out of stock but will be back within a couple of weeks)

I want to clarify something, you referred to SNS as the 'main brand' - Muscle Addiction is not a sub-brand of SNS, it is a completely different brand. I do have involvement with Muscle Addiction, but just as SNS and CEL are completely separate companies, Muscle Addiction is as well.

No worries on your terminology, I just wanted to make sure that everyone reading realized that. Here on AM its fine that people mention them as a family, but in the overall marketplace, they are all their own individual companies, ran independently of one another, have their own target customer bases, etc.

So, to answer your question, decisions made for SNS formulas have little to nothing to do with decisions made for Muscle Addiction formulas, so any upcoming pre-workouts (or other products) from either company would not be based off of the other's. That's part of the fun but also part of the challenges, designing good products for the different companies that don't overlap too much.
 
sns8778

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Ashwagandha Elite idea: KSM-66 + Sensoril + NooGandha. Kinda like Curcumin Elite

I thought about that awhile back but its extremely hard to get branded ingredient companies to allow you to use their ingredient in another product with their main competitors ingredient and KSM-66 and Sensoril hate each other and have marketed against each other so much, it would be disrespectful to either of them to even try to get that approved honestly.

Plus, I think that may be an idea that would work better on paper than in reality bc I think that KSM-66 is better for certain things whereas Sensoril is better for certain things; that's why we use them both in separate types of products.

Good thinking though, I appreciate the suggestion.
 

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I haven't used Noogandha, but I do like to think of Sensoril and KSM-66 as having slightly different use cases and function. I can't say which I like more than the other, but I do like Sensoril a bit more for my stress relief (although a bit higher dosing has some cool strength benefits from a study, but can't remember the exact specifics off hand) and KSM more in my pre-workout dosing scenarios.
 
Hyde

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Are there plans to re-stock Syn-30 going forward? Seems like an ingredient that has been drying up.
 

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