Tell Us What You Would Like to See From SNS & CEL (2021 Edition)

BillD

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I'm just going to be completely honest with you and tell you that if it doesn't have any taste, its not VASO6.

VASO6 I would consider to be more brown than red.

VASO6 is also one of the strongest tasting ingredients that there is. The taste is so strong that it makes flavoring products with it in there very challenging. That is one of the reasons that some brands choose not to use it because if they're going for the 'as good as Kool Aid' type flavor, you simply can't achieve that having VASO6 in there. That's one of the challenges with the updated Super Swole has been to get it to taste good.

You're welcome to pm me the brand if you'd like to discuss. I just don't want toto come off as putting anyone down publicly.
I find this interesting as all of my SNS Vaso 6 pills where coated in red dusting. As if a pill leaked some powder. But it was most definitely red.
 
sns8778

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Are you starting a 2022 thread? If you do can you please post the link in here
I am and I will. Just been an hours in the day type of thing. I'll do my best to get it done today.
 
sns8778

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I'm just going to be completely honest with you and tell you that if it doesn't have any taste, its not VASO6.

VASO6 I would consider to be more brown than red.

VASO6 is also one of the strongest tasting ingredients that there is. The taste is so strong that it makes flavoring products with it in there very challenging. That is one of the reasons that some brands choose not to use it because if they're going for the 'as good as Kool Aid' type flavor, you simply can't achieve that having VASO6 in there. That's one of the challenges with the updated Super Swole has been to get it to taste good.

You're welcome to pm me the brand if you'd like to discuss. I just don't want toto come off as putting anyone down publicly.
I find this interesting as all of my SNS Vaso 6 pills where coated in red dusting. As if a pill leaked some powder. But it was most definitely red.
I'm not sure what you're implying or questioning me on?

My reply to him was mainly about the taste. In that VASO6 has a very strong taste and that it is one of the hardest to flavor ingredients on the market. Right now for example, I'm on round 3 of the revised Super Swole formula samples and we cannot get the tastes right on it bc of the VASO6 content. It's difficult to flavor to the point where we've been considering replacing the VASO6 in Super Swole with something else so that we can hurry up and get the product back available.

As for the color, my only comment was - 'VASO6 I would consider to be more brown than red.'

If he or you considers it to be more red than brown, that's okay. My words were 'I consider it to be more brown than red' and also before posting this reply, I checked the VASO6 COA from the supplier just to see how they have it listed and they list it as brown as well with no mention of red on the one I just looked at. I don't see the color aspect of it being a big deal bc people's perceptions of color can vary.

But the taste is a big deal - VASO6 has a very strong taste.

As for the SNS VASO6 capsules, I would describe them as having a brownish tint to them (and if you want to describe it as a reddish tint, that's okay too haha). But no, its not from where a capsule came open. It's from where on the last batch, we switched from regular white gelatin capsules to white veggie caps and veggie caps stain worse than gelatin capsules do. Here's a walk through on that:
- Raw materials are mixed in a mixer and then encapsulated by machinery.
- During this process, the powder gets on the outside of the capsules as well.
- Some powder is sticky and sticks to the capsules; some doesn't.
- Some has color and stains the capsules; some doesn't.
- The finished capsules are then ran through the polisher which cleans the capsules. This is sometimes done immediately or sometimes may be done a few minutes to hours later or even days later; it just depends on the cm and their production schedule.
- VASO6, whether we want to call it red or brown, has a very dark color and is a sticky material (not super sticky but enough to stick to capsules).
- The texture of a gelatin capsule is shiny and slick and smooth.
- Veggie capsules are made from vegetable cellulose and on a microscopic level they aren't as smooth on the surface as gelatin capsules.
- A good analogy would be that gelatin capsules are like having a glass desk. You spill something, you just wipe it up and its gone. A veggie capsule would be like having a wood desk. You spill something, you can wipe it up but some of it may be down in the fine texture of the wood.
- So, that leads us to the last run of VASO6 capsules - where we switched from white gelatin capsules to white veggie capsules in an effort to make people happy.
- So, what happens is that the VASO6 is capsulated and some gets on the outside of the capsule. Being a veggie capsule, it was much more sticky and porous and the brown coloration stained the capsules themselves.
- Lesson learned. In the future we and the cm know that it has to be ran through the polisher right away if we use white veggie capsules &/or we may just use clear veggie caps instead of white.

^^^ The above explanation applies to much more than just VASO6. That is why you see many colored ingredients in clear capsules, especially when the brand uses Veggie capsules. A great example of this is Curcumin, which has a yellowish color. It will stain white capsules terribly, especially white Veggie capsules. That's why most highly standardized Curcumin capsules you see are in clear capsules. That happened with Liver Assist XT. We had it for years in regular white and red gelatin caps with no issues. We changed it over to Veggie caps and the first batch was stained yellow as could be. After that, we changed to clear capsules to avoid the issue on future runs.
 
ndiguy

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Steve, I *think* I've mentioned this in the past but cant recall exactly when.

I would LOVE to see an SNS take on the old Muscletech Gakic. It contained Glycine-l-arginine-alpha-ketoisocaproic acid calcium.

The taste of their powder offering was horrid (never tried the pill version), but it was on a whole different level in regard to muscular stamina and delaying fatigue. I remember how helpful it was during heavy squat sessions, being able to squeeze out a few more reps toward the end of the set(s), where I'd normally be at failure.

Upon further review, there's quite a few favorable clinical studies out there. I'd be interested in your thoughts, if this is something you'd be interested in.. Thanks!
 
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sns8778

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Steve, I *think* I've mentioned this in the past but cant recall exactly when.

I would LOVE to see an SNS take on the old Muscletech Gakic. It contained Glycine-l-arginine-alpha-ketoisocaproic acid calcium.

The taste of their powder offering was horrid (never tried the pill version), but it was on a whole different level in regard to muscular stamina and delaying fatigue. I remember how helpful it was during heavy squat sessions, being able to squeeze out a few more reps toward the end of the set(s), where I'd normally be at failure.

Upon further review, there's quite a few favorable clinical studies out there. I'd be interested in your thoughts, if this is something you'd be interested in.. Thanks!
When that ingredient first came out, Muscletech claimed to have a patent on it and then I'd read that they themselves didn't have a patent on it but licensed it exclusively from a company that did. However, to my knowledge, no one could ever figure out who to license it from; so it was speculated that Muscletech basically created a company to have the patent so it appeared to be third party.

I tried to do a quick patent search and the patent that I came up with right off the bat seems to be abandoned/expired; but patents are complex and its easy to miss one when doing a patent search.

So basically, I'm not really sure if its legal to use it and if it would have to be licensed, I remember there being a situation where no one could figure out from whom.

I'd definitely be open to trying to source it but I'd need to make sure it was legal to use it and that it wouldn't be violating anyone's patents if so.
 

dcoen21

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Steve, I *think* I've mentioned this in the past but cant recall exactly when.

I would LOVE to see an SNS take on the old Muscletech Gakic. It contained Glycine-l-arginine-alpha-ketoisocaproic acid calcium.

The taste of their powder offering was horrid (never tried the pill version), but it was on a whole different level in regard to muscular stamina and delaying fatigue. I remember how helpful it was during heavy squat sessions, being able to squeeze out a few more reps toward the end of the set(s), where I'd normally be at failure.

Upon further review, there's quite a few favorable clinical studies out there. I'd be interested in your thoughts, if this is something you'd be interested in.. Thanks!
I would recommend l-oritine l-aspartate I have seen those benefits from this great amino!!!
 
AndroRage

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Steve, I *think* I've mentioned this in the past but cant recall exactly when.

I would LOVE to see an SNS take on the old Muscletech Gakic. It contained Glycine-l-arginine-alpha-ketoisocaproic acid calcium.

The taste of their powder offering was horrid (never tried the pill version), but it was on a whole different level in regard to muscular stamina and delaying fatigue. I remember how helpful it was during heavy squat sessions, being able to squeeze out a few more reps toward the end of the set(s), where I'd normally be at failure.

Upon further review, there's quite a few favorable clinical studies out there. I'd be interested in your thoughts, if this is something you'd be interested in.. Thanks!
You still running PA mate? Think I read you were enjoying it? Looking to pick some up.

Thanks
 
ndiguy

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You still running PA mate? Think I read you were enjoying it? Looking to pick some up.

Thanks
Yessir, bought enough for a 3 month run at the recommended dosage. Almost done with my second bottle. Biggest take away is the pumps in the gym. Hard to say if strength gains are present; I just got off PCT a few months ago, so naturally strength has dropped a little bit since getting off cycle. So far I’m enjoying PA, but it’s one of those supplements I’d need to get at the right price to justify. Still, one of the few non-hormonal products I’d recommend 👍
 
ndiguy

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When that ingredient first came out, Muscletech claimed to have a patent on it and then I'd read that they themselves didn't have a patent on it but licensed it exclusively from a company that did. However, to my knowledge, no one could ever figure out who to license it from; so it was speculated that Muscletech basically created a company to have the patent so it appeared to be third party.

I tried to do a quick patent search and the patent that I came up with right off the bat seems to be abandoned/expired; but patents are complex and its easy to miss one when doing a patent search.

So basically, I'm not really sure if its legal to use it and if it would have to be licensed, I remember there being a situation where no one could figure out from whom.

I'd definitely be open to trying to source it but I'd need to make sure it was legal to use it and that it wouldn't be violating anyone's patents if so.
Thanks for the well thought out response. Greatly appreciate it. I'll try to do some research on my end as well, because it would be really cool to see on the market again.

Back in the day, I just told my buddies it was a non-stim preworkout (without being too specific on its effects). They both tried it and came to the same conclusion that it made pushing out additional reps during heavier sets noticeably easier. Pretty cool ingredient.
 
AndroRage

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Yessir, bought enough for a 3 month run at the recommended dosage. Almost done with my second bottle. Biggest take away is the pumps in the gym. Hard to say if strength gains are present; I just got off PCT a few months ago, so naturally strength has dropped a little bit since getting off cycle. So far I’m enjoying PA, but it’s one of those supplements I’d need to get at the right price to justify. Still, one of the few non-hormonal products I’d recommend 👍
What dosing scheme are you following? I’ve been waiting for SNS but found HPN product I may try for time being
 
ndiguy

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What dosing scheme are you following? I’ve been waiting for SNS but found HPN product I may try for time being
That's the one I'm currently using as well, since I was able to get a decent deal on Black Friday.

I'm doing 5 caps a day, with no off-days (Even though they recommend 6 days per week, not 7).

Sometimes I'll do 6 caps, if its a preworkout dosage.
 
sns8778

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How does it taste?
I don't think it has much of a taste. I mix it in things sometimes but I've also just popped a scoop in my mouth and washed it down with water.

L-Ornithine L-Aspartate is one of my favorite often overlooked SNS products.


Temporarily out of stock but we should have more back in within the next couple of weeks. And some of our retailers still have stock on it.
 
sns8778

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I would recommend l-oritine l-aspartate I have seen those benefits from this great amino!!!
I agree. It's such an underrated and overlooked ingredient - great for performance and also liver health.
 
sns8778

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Thanks for the well thought out response. Greatly appreciate it. I'll try to do some research on my end as well, because it would be really cool to see on the market again.

Back in the day, I just told my buddies it was a non-stim preworkout (without being too specific on its effects). They both tried it and came to the same conclusion that it made pushing out additional reps during heavier sets noticeably easier. Pretty cool ingredient.
Thank you. Let me know if you come up with anything. I'm definitely open to it.

Also, as dcoen21 suggested, if you haven't tried L-Ornithine L-Aspartate, you may want to try that when we get it back in stock bc the results sound pretty much identical.

And even if we do find that the GAKIC ingredient is usable, they would still make a great stack.
 
Rostam

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I don't think it has much of a taste. I mix it in things sometimes but I've also just popped a scoop in my mouth and washed it down with water.

L-Ornithine L-Aspartate is one of my favorite often overlooked SNS products.


Temporarily out of stock but we should have more back in within the next couple of weeks. And some of our retailers still have stock on it.
I wasn’t aware you are selling it. Have to include it in my next order.
 
Rostam

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I don't think it has much of a taste. I mix it in things sometimes but I've also just popped a scoop in my mouth and washed it down with water.

L-Ornithine L-Aspartate is one of my favorite often overlooked SNS products.


Temporarily out of stock but we should have more back in within the next couple of weeks. And some of our retailers still have stock on it.
Is it Loenitine Laspartate dipeptide or a mix or ornitine and aspartate?
 
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sns8778

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Is it Loenitine Laspartate dipeptide or a mix or ornitine and aspartate?
I have never heard it referred to as a dipeptide.

L-Ornithine L-Aspartate is the ingredient itself; it is not just a mixture of ornithine and aspartate in the sense of its not just throwing them both ingredients together in the same container. It has its own CAS# independent of both ornithine and aspartate. I hope that makes sense.

It is great for endurance and performance enhancement.

And its also great for liver health. There are a lot of studies on L-Ornithine L-Aspartate in relation to decreasing urea and ammonia and hepatic encephalopathy (a nervous system disorder brought on by liver disease).

It's really a fascinating ingredient.
 
sns8778

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I wasn’t aware you are selling it. Have to include it in my next order.
We hope to have it back in stock within the next couple of weeks. We will also be launching a capsule form as well.

We've sold it for years - probably close to 8 or more years. We've sold it back since before most people had ever heard of it.

That's one of the things I'm trying to figure out how to promote or increase awareness of - we offer so many products that a lot of times people overlook them, even people that really like the brand.
 
sns8778

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The OG alphamine from PES was legit!
I think that one would be impossible. If I remember correctly, some of the things in there aren't legal anymore.

But I appreciate the suggestion and am always open to ideas.
 
sns8778

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I would like to re-request a comprehensive shrooms supplement
Thank you.

I've been considering this and have a couple of draft formulas. There are so many ways one could go about this bc there are so many different mushrooms on the market.
 

mountain1

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I would love to see something like Applied Nutriceutucals RPM or Drive products. I loved both of these!!!!!
 
sns8778

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I would love to see something like Applied Nutriceutucals RPM or Drive products. I loved both of these!!!!!
It's been a long time since I thought about those. I'll look back and the formulas. Thank you for the suggestion.
 
sns8778

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Have you ever considered a Cistanche product @sns8778 ?
Yes, we are going to be doing one and also may use it in a couple formulas coming up. :)
 
AndroRage

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Yes, we are going to be doing one and also may use it in a couple formulas coming up. :)
Also another suggestion, which I’m sure I seen someone mention to you previously; a clone of OL Epilogue OG
 
sns8778

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Also another suggestion, which I’m sure I seen someone mention to you previously; a clone of OL Epilogue OG
Epilogue was if I remember correctly Epicatechin, VASO6, and Urolithin B.

We already offer Epi-Plex (Epicatechin + Bioperine) and offer VASO6 capsules and also use it in a lot of things.

So I was thinking more along the lines of doing a Urolithin B product so that people could stack it with whatever they wanted.

I'm open to suggestions and ideas though.
 

alvin1

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Am I wrong or does shilajit contain Urolithin B? Better to do a primavie product only?
 
AndroRage

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Epilogue was if I remember correctly Epicatechin, VASO6, and Urolithin B.

We already offer Epi-Plex (Epicatechin + Bioperine) and offer VASO6 capsules and also use it in a lot of things.

So I was thinking more along the lines of doing a Urolithin B product so that people could stack it with whatever they wanted.

I'm open to suggestions and ideas though.
I think it was @Iwilleattuna who was big fan or OG Epilogue and mentioned in another thread a clone. Personally I wouldn’t buy all individual ingredients and stack, however I would buy a product containing those and anything you added (with your spin on it) made by yourself. Sure there would be interest and it seems a popular product and I seen the new formulation and have been trying to get the old one as not sure it’s an the new is better...
 
sns8778

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Am I wrong or does shilajit contain Urolithin B? Better to do a primavie product only?
We use PrimaVie in many things and I'm a big fan of the ingredient but it doesn't naturally contain an amount of Urolithin B that is significant enough to be anything like using it on its own.

Ha. You put me on the spot without meaning to on this one haha.

Some companies claim that their Urolithin B comes from Shilajit. What I think they don't realize is if they're being honest and it really does, then they're admitting publicly and on their labels that they're violating someone's patent by using a type that does bc an ingredient company that has done some research on that has a patent. And also, the work done by the company with the patent shows that the % amount that certain companies claim they use derived from Shilajit isn't very likely to be possibly obtained.
 
sns8778

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I think it was @Iwilleattuna who was big fan or OG Epilogue and mentioned in another thread a clone. Personally I wouldn’t buy all individual ingredients and stack, however I would buy a product containing those and anything you added (with your spin on it) made by yourself. Sure there would be interest and it seems a popular product and I seen the new formulation and have been trying to get the old one as not sure it’s an the new is better...
I could make an argument either way but I've been asked to do a stand alone Urolithin B a lot more than I've ever been asked to do a version of Epilogue. It's possible down the road we may could do both.

The original Epilogue was Epicatechin, VASO6, and Urolithin B.

A lot of people already use VASO6 daily or in VasoForce XT. And our VASO6 - 120 cap size makes daily use VASO6 very cost effective for anyone wanting to use it.

If we do a single ingredient Urolithin B, the price would be very affordable to use it and it would allow people to stack it with other products of their choice.

Now, we get to the part where I was trying to take the high road on this and not say anything that could come off as speaking negatively about someone else's product. And this isn't about the product, its about an ingredient and something about a method of absorption and labeling that a lot of people don't understand.

Epilogue claimed to contain phytosomal Epicatechin at a dose of 600 mg. per day. A lot of people don't realize what that actually means. Listing the dosage at 600 mg. does NOT mean they are getting 600 mg. Epicatechin. It means that the total blend of phosphatidylcholine and epicatechin is 600 mg. so the maximum amount of Epicatechin included would be 300 mg. and likely less because normally with phytosomal ingredients, its normally in the range of more like a 65%/35% split.

Then with ingredients that claim to be phytosomal ingredients, question one is are they really encased in the phytosome or is it just phosphatidylcholine and ____ ingredient being added together in a prop blend. The next question is have any stability studies been done on the ingredient to see if its still stable as a phytosomal ingredient 6 months, 8 months, 1 year down the road.

There is a lot more to phytosomal ingredients than many people realize. These aren't some things like some would lead to consumers to believe that are easy to make on a commercial scale and have them maintain their structural integrity for the duration of their shelf life.

This leads me to my point in that we already offer Epi-Plex. Epi-Plex is 600 mg. actual Epicatechin + Bioperine per day which is minimum over double the amount of actual Epicatechin than is in a phytosomal form of it. And imo the absorption of 600 mg. per day + Bioperine is going to far exceed the lower amount in a phytosomal.


And I want to also point out that I'm a fan of phytosomal ingredients - when they make sense. As in when using it in a phytosomal form can lead to an increased absorption versus its non-phytosomal counterpart. And also, and very importantly, when the ingredients are made by legitimate raw material suppliers that have the equipment and capabilities to do them correctly and run the appropriate stability studies on them. I've actually been working on a project with a branded ingredient company for close to the past year and can tell you from personal experience that the proper stability studies alone cost in the thousands of dollars. If theirs work out the way they hope, there'll be a couple of really cool phytosomal ingredients out this year.
 
sns8778

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I think it was @Iwilleattuna who was big fan or OG Epilogue and mentioned in another thread a clone. Personally I wouldn’t buy all individual ingredients and stack, however I would buy a product containing those and anything you added (with your spin on it) made by yourself. Sure there would be interest and it seems a popular product and I seen the new formulation and have been trying to get the old one as not sure it’s an the new is better...
Also, if we did do something like Epilogue, I'd want to add at least one more thing to it to differentiate it.

I know and like some of the original guys that were at Olympus. I'm not interested in copying their formula. If I can add on it and improve on it, I think they'd be cool with that and respect that (they actually probably don't care bc they're not still there anyway); but you see my point, I'd at least want to improve on it.
 

Jeremyk1

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It's been a long time since I thought about those. I'll look back and the formulas. Thank you for the suggestion.
I don’t remember everything else included in Drive, but if you could do a well-dosed epimedium and forskolin product, I’d be all over that.
 
Darkhorse192

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forgive me if I missed it in earlier comments, have you guys considered doing a stand-alone L-Baiba product? I know that it is an expensive ingredient relatively speaking...
 
GQdaLEGEND

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wonder if my nok will hit 5.30limit today .. got in at 3 dont really wanna sell but put a stop loss.. would be just one less headache to think about
 
sns8778

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I don’t remember everything else included in Drive, but if you could do a well-dosed epimedium and forskolin product, I’d be all over that.
We won't be doing them together but do have a Horny Goat Weed/Epimedium product and a Forskolin product planned for the future. The Forskolin one should hopefully be out in the next couple months.
 
sns8778

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wonder if my nok will hit 5.30limit today .. got in at 3 dont really wanna sell but put a stop loss.. would be just one less headache to think about
Think you might have posted that in the wrong thread haha
 
sns8778

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forgive me if I missed it in earlier comments, have you guys considered doing a stand-alone L-Baiba product? I know that it is an expensive ingredient relatively speaking...
We will be releasing a MitoBurn XT product very soon :)
 
sns8778

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When is anabolic xt coming through. 😎😎
Hoping within the next few weeks.

Everything is done for it; the delay is honestly just pushing existing products that sell well that we're out of stock on in front of it. Sometimes I feel like I may give too much information about stuff; but its just the truth. New products are fun and exciting but its the existing sellers that allow us to afford to do them and it makes retailers mad if we launch a bunch of new stuff while out of a lot of good sellers. So that's where the business side has to take over from the fun side sometimes haha
 

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