T3 Half Life

XxCrisisxX

Member
Being that the half-life of T3 is roughly 2.5 days, if one took say 50mcgs/day for an extended period of time, would the total accumulate more and more over time? I figure this would act like DNP (which has a 36 hour half life), but a little more aggressive in terms of build up.
 
Exactly! If it builds up too fast, your skrewed cause you can't turn it off. All you can do is stop dosing and take a beta-blocker for a few days so your heart doesn't explode. That's why I say go with T4. It's a lot safer cause you have a buffer, and it's just as effective. Much cheaper too.
 
Thats what I was thinking too. But what exactly does a beta blocker due in terms of "stopping your heart from exploding?" LOL. On the other hand, there was a study where people took T3 for roughly 30 years without any ill side effects. Have you read "Chemical Muscle Enhancement", Dr. D? He suggested that T3 should be taken at the dose of 50mcgs/day with a 2 on/2 off schedule. I never quite understood why he went with the 2 on/2 off dosing, but now it's much more clear. I think this is a VERY good idea that can be done safely.
 
yeah just like clen can be 2 on/2 off, the long half lives are nice that way IMO. You can alternate them so you're on one or the other at a time, that makes for a neat cutter IMO :)
 
XxCrisisxX said:
Thats what I was thinking too. But what exactly does a beta blocker due in terms of "stopping your heart from exploding?" LOL. On the other hand, there was a study where people took T3 for roughly 30 years without any ill side effects. Have you read "Chemical Muscle Enhancement", Dr. D? He suggested that T3 should be taken at the dose of 50mcgs/day with a 2 on/2 off schedule. I never quite understood why he went with the 2 on/2 off dosing, but now it's much more clear. I think this is a VERY good idea that can be done safely.
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:thumbsup: OK, you got me, maybe your heart wouldn't x-plode! But the pulse rate acceleration can be quite alarming. Beta blockers can be used to eliminate the peripheral sides while still maintaining the metabolic advantage and central stimulation, for the most part. I haven't read that book, but by 2on/2off, do you mean days, weeks, or what? 50mic of T3 could be used indefinately, because after a few months, your body learns to accommodate it. This would be OK. I just like T4. I haven't taken a break in over 10 years I like it so much! It makes everything work better. Detox in light speed, heal in no time from injuries, cholesterol stays low, BF stays low, anabolics work better, you name it. But I don't understand the 2/2 method for thyroid hormones? I'd heard of the book, just haven't yet read it.
 
Yea, its 2 dayson/2 days off for days. I never really looked into T4. Do you use it in PCT also? Seems like it's a much better solution than T3. What are the proper names of T4, so I can look into obtaining some for a cheap price (PM if you like :thumbsup:)
 
Synthroid and Levothroid are the main brands, but it can be obtained for less than 100$/1000 count bottle @ .100mg. That's such a good deal! PCT is faster and better w/ thyroid sup. Androgen does not offer total protection from the catabolic effects of high doses, so don't get silly with it. And doses should be cut a little during PCT. Androgen depress synthesis of thyroxine-binding globin, and thus reduce thyroxine production by lowering protein-bound iodine. Anyone that has used steroids over 2 years could benefit from thyroids replacement. I always say this, but nobody hears me! Oh well, believe me. Thyroid makes everything better.. I'll PM you bro ;)
 
I have always heard that due to the half life of clen, 2 day on/ 2 days off is pointless. 2 weeks on two weeks off is often recommended, though. I plan on using T3 during an AAS cycle in a few months, and clen is one of my favs. What would be a good dosing cycle for these two while on 500 mg of test/week? I didn't realize that T3 had such a long half life. I was planning on splitting it up into two doses a day. Doesn't seem like there is any reason to. Any advise is appreciated.
 
PFH,
No bro, once a day only, first thing when you wake up on a totally empty stomach. Start low like 12.5 or 25mic and go up 12.5 or 25 more every week for the whole cycle. Top off at 50 or 75, maybe 100 if your a real tough guy. Ramp down and finish it around 2 or 3 months tops. This 2on/2off is not appropriate for thyroid replacement.
 
DR.D said:
PFH,
No bro, once a day only, first thing when you wake up on a totally empty stomach. Start low like 12.5 or 25mic and go up 12.5 or 25 more every week for the whole cycle. Top off at 50 or 75, maybe 100 if your a real tough guy. Ramp down and finish it around 2 or 3 months tops. This 2on/2off is not appropriate for thyroid replacement.
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Okay, this sounds right based on everything I read. I probably misread this thread last night as I was half asleep. I doubt I'll go up to 75 mcg a day if it accumalates in your system, and I do want to make some gains while on it. Thanks.
 
PirateFromHell said:
Okay, this sounds right based on everything I read. I probably misread this thread last night as I was half asleep. I doubt I'll go up to 75 mcg a day if it accumalates in your system, and I do want to make some gains while on it. Thanks.
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anytime
 
I personally use the 7 on/5 off that Mallet over at AR recommends. I haven't used it pyramid style so I can't compare the shutdown caused by the two styles and the recovery time necessary..though I guess you aren't too worried if your are just going to use it indefinetly like Dr.D.

On mallet's cycle plan I use...
Days 1-5- 1 mcg per lb (I haven't gotten this high yet, I am going for 200mcg next time around in 4 days, I will see by my BBT if II need to boost it up anymore. I doubt it though, at 185mcg I finally got my bbt into the optimal zone at 98.2.)
Day 6- 0.5mcg per lb
Day 7- 0.25mcg per lb

My last cycle was Day 1-5 185mcg, day 6 80mcg, day 7 40mcg (dosing is just easier I have pills for doses this low where as I use liquid for the higher doses).

Fpot66
 
Fpot66 said:
I haven't used it pyramid style so I can't compare the shutdown caused by the two styles and the recovery time necessary
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If you take over 150ug for 6 months, it can shut you down. So don't get me wrong, it can and will happen at that point. But the thyroid is the 'stupidest' gland in the boby. It responds so slowly, that suppression is usually not even an issue under 3 months of use. Even with high doses. You could use 100ug for a month or two before it even has a clue. So you don't need to worry too much about it, just pyramid to avoid acute cardiac toxicity.
 
DR.D said:
But the thyroid is the 'stupidest' gland in the boby.
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I didn't know that is where it was. :blink: 1 mcg per pound sounds like way too much for me. I thought shut down happened faster than that. Supersoldier did bloodwork that showed Trimax shutting down his thyroid real quick.:think:
 
Oops (I need a spell checker)
SS does some great bloodwork, but from my experience (and I was monitored for several years initially) the thyroid turns back on fast unless the doses are very high for a long time. I even know one lady who took thyroid replacement for 20 years and just quit cold turkey (that's a no no by the way) and she has recovered full natural output just on her own. So it's not like test suppression, that's my point. A 7/5 split is paranoid and pointly. Just cycle it. You really can't screw it up, unless it's by starting out too fast and becoming hypertensive. That can be very scarey. But if you juice for a few years, expect your intrinsic thyroid output to diminish over time. It can't be avoided. Steroids end up turning off your thyroid gland. I finally just decided to replace mine. I love it for many reasons I've allready stated. Even the few grey hairs I was getting (from my wild ass kids driving me insane!) turned back to normal color! I'm telling you man, thyroid make everything run better. If you are going to use it, do 2 or 3 month cycles. If your natural levels are in the lower normal range (which is like 2 to 12) just replace it. Mine had fallen to 5 when I decided to just go for it. Now my metabolism is regulated and predicable. It's great.
 
If your natural levels are in the lower normal range (which is like 2 to 12) just replace it. Mine had fallen to 5 when I decided to just go for it. Now my metabolism is regulated and predicable. It's great.
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WHich test is it that has that range, the only thyroid test I have had done is my TSH levels. My lab report gave me an optimal range of between 0.35-5.5 ?iu/ml and my lab work came back at 1.004 ?iu/ml. Then I checked online to find out just what that mean and the site said that a lower number meant and overactive thyroid and a higher=a slower thyroid. Now...I am not genius but 1.004 seems like a pretty low number and yet i manage to keep 16-17% BF with a decent diet (no fast food almost all clean foods, 250g P, 250g C and 50g F, I would cut carbs lower if I could and I know I should but I have a blood sugar problem) and 4 days per week of working out and 2-3 days a week of cardio.

I think I will try a pyramid cycle for the next 5 weeks or so, I am already 5 weeks into my cycle.

Fpot66
 
Fpot66 said:
WHich test is it that has that range, the only thyroid test I have had done is my TSH levels. My lab report gave me an optimal range of between 0.35-5.5 ?iu/ml and my lab work came back at 1.004 ?iu/ml. Then I checked online to find out just what that mean and the site said that a lower number meant and overactive thyroid and a higher=a slower thyroid. Now...I am not genius but 1.004 seems like a pretty low number and yet i manage to keep 16-17% BF with a decent diet (no fast food almost all clean foods, 250g P, 250g C and 50g F, I would cut carbs lower if I could and I know I should but I have a blood sugar problem) and 4 days per week of working out and 2-3 days a week of cardio.

I think I will try a pyramid cycle for the next 5 weeks or so, I am already 5 weeks into my cycle.

Fpot66
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I was talking about my total T4. If your TSH is that low and your index, total T4, and T3 uptake are high, then that's perfect. It's when your TSH is cranked and the T4 is still low that it's time to replace. You can fix something that's a little broke, but if it's too badly broke, you must just replace it. You are probably too young to have poisoned your thyroid response yet, and it doesn't happen to all steroid users, but most eventually I suspect. Try the pyramid. I wish I knew your T4 and T3 values, then I could recommend doses. When in doubt, be conservative. Thyroid meds are serious stuff in an overdose situation.
 
Well...I wish I could have gotten the full workup I requested, but my Doc is not the sharpest tool in the shed, he once told me that ringworm was not contagious. I think it is about time I got a new one and it will be about 4 months before my insurance will cover another thyroid check.

I am always conservative with doses, hell I still take 5mg of M1T and see great gains. I have 20mcg Tertroxin brand pills(not too many left though, I have to resupply) and IBE 125mcg/ml liquid, I have about 50ml left, but I am worried about the quality of this one. I have not seen some of the effects (to the extent that I did on my first cycle a few months ago) that let you know that the T3 is working...lets not go into too much detail here.

I much appreciate any help...and sorry for the hijack.

Fpot66
 
Fpot66 said:
Well...I wish I could have gotten the full workup I requested, but my Doc is not the sharpest tool in the shed, he once told me that ringworm was not contagious. I think it is about time I got a new one and it will be about 4 months before my insurance will cover another thyroid check.

I am always conservative with doses, hell I still take 5mg of M1T and see great gains. I have 20mcg Tertroxin brand pills(not too many left though, I have to resupply) and IBE 125mcg/ml liquid, I have about 50ml left, but I am worried about the quality of this one. I have not seen some of the effects (to the extent that I did on my first cycle a few months ago) that let you know that the T3 is working...lets not go into too much detail here.

I much appreciate any help...and sorry for the hijack.

Fpot66
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I bet he thinks it's a real 'worm' in there to. That's so sad it has to be funny. I am still surprised how clueless so many doc's and pharmacists are. It blows me away sometimes.

The liquid version may be partially spoiled. T3 and T4 are VERY sensitive to heat and moisture. It would need to be prep'ed perfect and chemically preserved in a non-aqueous solution (unless it's the sodium salt) and shipped cold and fresh to be any good probably.
 
That sucks to hear! Anyone have good results with the liquid verison of T3? I wonder how much degredation occurs.
 
I shot an email over to the company that I bought the T3 from. They said that it has a shelf life up to 2006 and that only extreme heat would degrade it. THey offered to replace it if I wanted, I told them that I would take their advice on the duration and then if I did not see results then I would send them another email.

FPot66
 
So Dr.D you would say that straight T3 (in your case T4) would be better than tiratricol in terms of suppression? I saw supersoldiers bloodwork after trimax and he had a very suppressed thyroid; doesnt mean it didn't come back fast, but it was suppressed highly. Could this partially be because he is such a heavy steroid user (you thought that steroid use downregulates natural thyroid output) that his thyroid was out of whack and had a low output to begin with?

And just to clarify, you prefer T4 because it must be converted to T3 right? So it has that little buffer area so you can't really overdose it? Just wantd to clarify my knowledge here.

If T3/T4 is so much better, you think custom or other research chem suppliers would be able to start offering it? Or is it too expensive/hard to ship or whatnot?
 
Enigma76 said:
So Dr.D you would say that straight T3 (in your case T4) would be better than tiratricol in terms of suppression? I saw supersoldiers bloodwork after trimax and he had a very suppressed thyroid; doesnt mean it didn't come back fast, but it was suppressed highly. Could this partially be because he is such a heavy steroid user (you thought that steroid use downregulates natural thyroid output) that his thyroid was out of whack and had a low output to begin with?

And just to clarify, you prefer T4 because it must be converted to T3 right? So it has that little buffer area so you can't really overdose it? Just wantd to clarify my knowledge here.

If T3/T4 is so much better, you think custom or other research chem suppliers would be able to start offering it? Or is it too expensive/hard to ship or whatnot?
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E76, sorry for the delay!
I'm busy a few days and everything changed when I got back!

It's hard to say with SS, could be so many factors. :o
This chem should be fairly cheap. It is a complex and delicate molecule, but has been around for a long time. Also, it's so potent that a small amount lasts forever. A years supply of T4 is less than 100mg, so how expensive could it be? Probably not too bad. The order of suppression would be T3>T4>Tri.

Your right about the buffer, but T4 is still very toxic in an overdose so don't get me wrong. But, it's MUCH more forgiving than T3. Run a search, I've posted about steroids and thier affects on the thyroid before. It's a real issue to think about.
 
Dr.D, I am bumping this old thread to inquire about your reason for not stopping thyroid cold turkey.

Thanks.
 
Grunt76 said:
Dr.D, I am bumping this old thread to inquire about your reason for not stopping thyroid cold turkey.

Thanks.
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It can result in a nasty metabolic "crash", even coma. After about 3-6 months at 100-200mcg's/d, you never want to just stop taking it cold turkey. That could be ugly. Organ systems just shutting down, your hair turning grey practically overnight, weird shifts in vital signs, that kind of ****. If you've been on 100mcg or less for 3 months or less, the syndrome may not be as severe, but you still don't want to do that to yourself. Cold turkey does not result in a better TSH response or recovery from a bounce. The thyroid is inherently very sluggish anyway.
 
DR.D said:
It can result in a nasty metabolic "crash", even coma. After about 3-6 months at 100-200mcg's/d, you never want to just stop taking it cold turkey. That could be ugly. Organ systems just shutting down, your hair turning grey practically overnight, weird shifts in vital signs, that kind of ****. If you've been on 100mcg or less for 3 months or less, the syndrome may not be as severe, but you still don't want to do that to yourself. Cold turkey does not result in a better TSH response or recovery from a bounce. The thyroid is inherently very sluggish anyway.
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For a standard 5-6 week T3 cycle whats a sufficient time for a ramp down? Say you peak at 50-75mcg/day and have 1 week of ramp down to about 15-20mcg then continue at that low dose for roungly another week before stopping. Its hard to dose much less than 15-20mcg when using liquid.

btw, this post is the first time i have heard of liquid t3 possibly being "bad" or at least its potency reduced. I wasnt aware that it was so sensitive.
 
Alpine said:
For a standard 5-6 week T3 cycle whats a sufficient time for a ramp down? Say you peak at 50-75mcg/day and have 1 week of ramp down to about 15-20mcg then continue at that low dose for roungly another week before stopping. Its hard to dose much less than 15-20mcg when using liquid.

btw, this post is the first time i have heard of liquid t3 possibly being "bad" or at least its potency reduced. I wasnt aware that it was so sensitive.
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Yeah, it's kinda unstable. Keep it cold, dry, and out of the light. It's usually formulated in glycerin or ethanol (both are very hygroscopic) so keep the lid on tight. Ramp down about like you ramped up. If you peak at 75, then 50 for a wk and 25 for another to come down. If you still don't feel quite right, keep on with 12.5-25 till you feel normal again, then stop. It may take a month to really phase out properly, that's OK. Don't count that as on time.
 
DR.D said:
Yeah, it's kinda unstable. Keep it cold, dry, and out of the light. It's usually formulated in glycerin or ethanol (both are very hygroscopic) so keep the lid on tight. Ramp down about like you ramped up. If you peak at 75, then 50 for a wk and 25 for another to come down. If you still don't feel quite right, keep on with 12.5-25 till you feel normal again, then stop. It may take a month to really phase out properly, that's OK. Don't count that as on time.
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Ive ben storig at room temp (71-72F). I had no idea it would help to keep it cold. I wish IBE would mention this on the site. I have kept the lid on tightly. Does the same hold true for the Nolva?
 
DR.D said:
Yeah, it's kinda unstable. Keep it cold, dry, and out of the light. It's usually formulated in glycerin or ethanol (both are very hygroscopic) so keep the lid on tight. Ramp down about like you ramped up. If you peak at 75, then 50 for a wk and 25 for another to come down. If you still don't feel quite right, keep on with 12.5-25 till you feel normal again, then stop. It may take a month to really phase out properly, that's OK. Don't count that as on time.
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could you possibly stay on t3 at that dose for in the theory for like a year if your an endo and have a slow metabolism. A dose like that wouldnt be catabolic if protein is kept high and may actually help in the synthesizing protein mor efficiently, yet it would keep some fat build up relatively low if you werent on. Just wondering
 
Alpine said:
Ive ben storig at room temp (71-72F). I had no idea it would help to keep it cold. I wish IBE would mention this on the site. I have kept the lid on tightly. Does the same hold true for the Nolva?
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If you use it within 6 months or so, room temp is probably fine. As far as Nolva, I keep it cold if I'm saving it for awhile, but it's pretty stable no matter what. Just don't formulate it with a base because the citrate can break off. I'd suggested to IBE he formulate it with a mild citric acid solution, just to ensure long-term stability by buffer effect, but I don't know if he does. His stuff has always been good that I've tried. I've tried a lot of his liquid products (toremifene, t3, letro, nolva, isotret, fina, and albuterol).
 
mitch911 said:
could you possibly stay on t3 at that dose for in the theory for like a year if your an endo and have a slow metabolism. A dose like that wouldnt be catabolic if protein is kept high and may actually help in the synthesizing protein mor efficiently, yet it would keep some fat build up relatively low if you werent on. Just wondering
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Yes, you can! I stay on T4 all year round. 200mcg on cycle to enhance recovery and healing, which is about equal to 50mcg T3, and 150 when off, just to stay lean. Keeping protein intake fairly high and frequent avoids catabolism, and the fat burning and detox are superb. It also keeps cholesterol values nice and low. I like T3 but I love T4.
 
This is why it's always good to take it slow and keep your temp checked.

Lots of good t3 information in here! :thumbsup:
 
DR.D said:
Yes, you can! I stay on T4 all year round. 200mcg on cycle to enhance recovery and healing, which is about equal to 50mcg T3, and 150 when off, just to stay lean. Keeping protein intake fairly high and frequent avoids catabolism, and the fat burning and detox are superb. It also keeps cholesterol values nice and low. I like T3 but I love T4.
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good news to me Doc..i was always considering this..God has punished me by giving me a turtles metabolism. How many degrees above your normal BBT should you go to just give the metabolism a kick..like your dose of 150 of t4.
 
mitch911 said:
good news to me Doc..i was always considering this..God has punished me by giving me a turtles metabolism. How many degrees above your normal BBT should you go to just give the metabolism a kick..like your dose of 150 of t4.
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I don't know what my corrected BBT is these days, but one whole degree up is probably not too uncommon on cycle, especially with progestins like Deca. I do sweat very easily for sure! My pulse rate stays high too, like 100, but my BP stays normal. Beta blockers or clonidine are two good peripheral antagonists if stimulation becomes too intense, but you really just get use to it. I've been doing this for over 10 years now and feel great. Oh yeah, T4 also puts libido into high gear, so be prepared! Whatever else you may need to know about thyroid augmentation before you start a regiment, feel free to ask bro. I've experimented with it to a very deep level and can probably advise.
 
I have similar question, what do you think of taking 25 mcg of t3 , im on low carb diet ( 60-70g) and use only tt and creatine matrix.
I want my bf to be as low as it possible.
 
jerolddaviking said:
Will t4 work on a keto diet DR D?
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Yes! It works even faster on a keto diet. Only prob is muscle loss with lowered cals. Keep protein good and high and take an anti-cort too if your not on any anabolics.
 
estor said:
I have similar question, what do you think of taking 25 mcg of t3 , im on low carb diet ( 60-70g) and use only tt and creatine matrix.
I want my bf to be as low as it possible.
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That's about equal in effect to 75-100mcg T4. You're not quite ketonic with 60-70g carbs/day, so with the creatine you'll be fine I think. Obviously, the more T3 you take and calories you cut, the faster you'll lose bf, but low doses like 25mcg are very gentle in my experience.
 
I'm on week 2 of a tren/winny cutter and am planning to run the cycle for 7 weeks total.Dosages employed are:TREN ACE@50mg every 3rd day, STAN@50mg EOD.When can i start T4 and how many days should i be on it?should i stop t4 before PCT or continue after PCT? I,m male 5'5" and weigh 140lbs with a big boned BF% of 10,wanting to go down 6-8 BF%.I was a FFB(former fat boy).Thanks DR D
 
DR.D said:
Oh yeah, T4 also puts libido into high gear, so be prepared! Whatever else you may need to know about thyroid augmentation before you start a regiment, feel free to ask bro. I've experimented with it to a very deep level and can probably advise.
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Would this would be the same for T3?
I've read some people don't convert T4 toT3 ?
Have you ever heard of T3 causing night leg cramps?
Thnx for any replies.:goodpost:
 
thanks dr.d ! ,what dosage do you propose and for how long ? (25 mcg ?) ,

I will take attitude (atd + 3-ohat) + tribulus , I use also ECA.
 
jerolddaviking said:
I'm on week 2 of a tren/winny cutter and am planning to run the cycle for 7 weeks total.Dosages employed are:TREN ACE@50mg every 3rd day, STAN@50mg EOD.When can i start T4 and how many days should i be on it?should i stop t4 before post cycle therapy or continue after PCT? I,m male 5'5" and weigh 140lbs with a big boned BF% of 10,wanting to go down 6-8 BF%.I was a FFB(former fat boy).Thanks DR D
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Your cycle looks good. You can start the T4 now if you like and run it through PCT. Start at 25mcg/d to assess tolerance and work up 25mcg more per week, no faster. You can peak around 100-150mcg probably and cycle down the same way after a month or two. You should be down to the BF you want by then if your diet is right.
 
Motomatt said:
Would this would be the same for T3?
I've read some people don't convert T4 toT3 ?
Have you ever heard of T3 causing night leg cramps?
Thnx for any replies.:goodpost:
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Yes, same thing. T4 takes about 16-36hrs to kick in though, so it works more slowly to start that T3. After a few days, they feel exactly the same to me. Some people may not efficiently convert T4 to T3 depending on other drugs being used, liver and thyroid status, etc, but at a high enough dose, it will convert in everyone. 200-250mcg puts my free thyroid levels at about 1.5x the upper normal max. I am not aware that it can cause night leg cramps specifically, but may have weird sides in some people. Ramp it up slowly for sure.
 
estor said:
thanks dr.d ! ,what dosage do you propose and for how long ? (25 mcg ?) ,

I will take attitude (atd + 3-ohat) + tribulus , I use also ECA.
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No problem, estor! Yes, 25mcg is a good place to start. You can milk it at low doses like that for months if you want.
 
DR.D said:
No problem, estor! Yes, 25mcg is a good place to start. You can milk it at low doses like that for months if you want.
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Do u find u can eat alot more doc when running the low dose and not put on fat..or not be so strict with carb cut offs or mixing carbs/fats etc. Basically loosing up a tight diet.
 
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