Starting new SARMS cycle…

[six8five]

Aloha everyone,
I’m about to start my cycle with a stack of LGD4033(10mg), YK11(5mg) with RAD140(10mg).

Stats: 43 yo male, 6’0”, 240lbs
Goal: To lean/bulk down to 205lbs
Cycle: 8wks
PCT: Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Suggestions on best time of day to take them with or without food, how often do I eat will try my best to eat clean with plenty of water.

Open for honest advise and guidance for my 8wk cycle and PCT.

Thank you
M

 

[Sparta12]

Well PCT you will need a SERM, Nolva or Clomid, I wouldnt start without them just in case you have any issues getting it.

Take half morning and half pre workout/dinner whatever, I am not great with diet but I would track your calories and make sure you are in a deficit

 

[six8five]

Well PCT you will need a SERM, Nolva or Clomid, I wouldnt start without them just in case you have any issues getting it.

Take half morning and half pre workout/dinner whatever, I am not great with diet but I would track your calories and make sure you are in a deficit

Sir,
Do you know any reliable legitimate online companies that sell Nolva or Clomide. Which would you prefer for PCT?

 

[ZLB70]

Sir,
Do you know any reliable legitimate online companies that sell Nolva or Clomide. Which would you prefer for PCT?

MA. @Smont can give more info

 

[Smont]

Sir,
Do you know any reliable legitimate online companies that sell Nolva or Clomide. Which would you prefer for PCT?

Tamoxifen – MA Research Chems

maresearchchems.net

 

[Smont]

I'm not sure what you mean by lean bulk down from 240 to 205, you need to diet hard to cut 35lbs, you can't bulk and loose weight at the same time.

Bulking is the opposite of loosing weight

 

[six8five]

I'm not sure what you mean by lean bulk down from 240 to 205, you need to diet hard to cut 35lbs, you can't bulk and loose weight at the same time.

Bulking is the opposite of loosing weight

Thank you for the suggestions

 

[Smont]

Thank you for the suggestions

Aaaaaaa......I didn't give any suggestions, But ok?

 

[CRACK HEAD]

**** you need a test base. RIP your joints

 

[KvanH]

Bulk down? You want to grow smaller, that's interesting..

Anyway, you won't lose 35 lbs in 8 weeks, if that's what you meant. Unless you get a disease or something, that has you laying in hospital bed (let's hope nothing like that happens of course). Or manipulate water weight, which is of no use in terms of actually getting lean.

What I would do, is cut down to your goal weight/leaness level first, and then reverse diet and rebound some muscle fullness a little and then start the sarm cycle to pack on some lean mass on the now lean frame.

Or add the sarms to the end of the cut, when you're about 10 lbs or something away from your goal weight/leaness level.

But that's just what I would do. And don't get too fixated on what the scale shows. Specific goals are often great, but 35 lbs is a big weight cut and you may find along the way, that you don't need to lose that much or need to lose more.

And Crack head made a good point about "test base". Taking sarms without anything that converts to estrogen and test can lead to some pretty bad time and you may not even make it to 8 weeks.

 

[Moto140]

Thats going to completely shut down your natural T production.

Myself and a few other SARM goblins have ran Enclomiphene (not clomid) DURING the ENTIRE sarm cycle. I ran an 8 week cycle of 10mg LGD4033 with 15mg ostarine, and did not get shut down. Thats because I was taking 8mg enclo at night, and 8mg enclo in the morning.

Normally, a cycle like that would severely suppress you. I've heard of guys ending their cycle with higher T than when they started it. So I do think that the right dose of the right SERM is a very smart idea on a sarm cycle.

Otherwise, run a test base like test cypionate or HCG 500IU eod.

 

[Moto140]

Oh BTW get some BPC157, MK677, and hydrolized collagen protein. You are probably gonna end up tweaking some of your joints.

Ostarine is weak for building muscle, but DAMN it is awesome for joints. Ostarine is a big factor in my joint healing stack. Idk why more people don't talk about that aspect of it. I stack it on everything for that alone.

 

[six8five]

Bulk down? You want to grow smaller, that's interesting..

Anyway, you won't lose 35 lbs in 8 weeks, if that's what you meant. Unless you get a disease or something, that has you laying in hospital bed (let's hope nothing like that happens of course). Or manipulate water weight, which is of no use in terms of actually getting lean.

What I would do, is cut down to your goal weight/leaness level first, and then reverse diet and rebound some muscle fullness a little and then start the sarm cycle to pack on some lean mass on the now lean frame.

Or add the sarms to the end of the cut, when you're about 10 lbs or something away from your goal weight/leaness level.

But that's just what I would do. And don't get too fixated on what the scale shows. Specific goals are often great, but 35 lbs is a big weight cut and you may find along the way, that you don't need to lose that much or need to lose more.

And Crack head made a good point about "test base". Taking sarms without anything that converts to estrogen and test can lead to some pretty bad time and you may not even make it to 8 weeks.

Mahalo KvanH,
I have not start on my cycle yet, I was waiting for more suggestions. I am working out, eating clean and making my way down to 215 then start the sarms. What would you recommend for “test base”?
Very much appreciate the feedback.
Aloha
M

 

[cruze1911r1]

Mahalo KvanH,
I have not start on my cycle yet, I was waiting for more suggestions. I am working out, eating clean and making my way down to 215 then start the sarms. What would you recommend for “test base”?
Very much appreciate the feedback.
Aloha
M

I'm running 4 andro as a test base with lgd

 

[Moto140]

I'm running 4 andro as a test base with lgd

Oh cool im sorry i missed that part!

 

[KvanH]

Mahalo KvanH,
I have not start on my cycle yet, I was waiting for more suggestions. I am working out, eating clean and making my way down to 215 then start the sarms. What would you recommend for “test base”?
Very much appreciate the feedback.
Aloha
M

Well testosterone is allways best, but I'm assuming your not going to pin right now. So transdermal 4-Andro, oral 4-Andro or transdermal dhea. Or if the serm during cycle works for you, like Moto suggested, then that would be nice to not be suppressed at all. But I've seen people try it and be suppressed anyway. But some do report success with it.

 

[six8five]

Thats going to completely shut down your natural T production.

Myself and a few other SARM goblins have ran Enclomiphene (not clomid) DURING the ENTIRE sarm cycle. I ran an 8 week cycle of 10mg LGD4033 with 15mg ostarine, and did not get shut down. Thats because I was taking 8mg enclo at night, and 8mg enclo in the morning.

Normally, a cycle like that would severely suppress you. I've heard of guys ending their cycle with higher T than when they started it. So I do think that the right dose of the right SERM is a very smart idea on a sarm cycle.

Otherwise, run a test base like test cypionate or HCG 500IU eod.

Aloha Moto140,
I know it’s obvious I’m new to this, greatly appreciate you and other members on this feed for the advise.
I will definitely look into your recommended serm.

Mahalo
M

 

[six8five]

I'm running 4 andro as a test base with lgd

Aloha cruz1911r1,
Greatly appreciate the advise. Will look into 4 andro.

Mahalo
M

 

[ZLB70]

Aloha Moto140,
I know it’s obvious I’m new to this, greatly appreciate you and other members on this feed for the advise.
I will definitely look into your recommended serm.

Mahalo
M

I’m not saying he’s wrong about taking a serm concurrently with a sarm will prevent shut down but it’s been from my understanding is it don’t prevent it. I could very well be wrong tho

 

[CRACK HEAD]

Aloha Moto140,
I know it’s obvious I’m new to this, greatly appreciate you and other members on this feed for the advise.
I will definitely look into your recommended serm.

Mahalo
M

I seriously doubt a serm is going to offset the suppression from 3 highly suppressive compounds.

 

[Moto140]

I seriously doubt a serm is going to offset the suppression from 3 highly suppressive compounds.

It will help for sure. I saw a guy run S23 and YK11 for 8 weeks. He took 12.5mg enclomiphene every day from the start, and his testosterone only dipped about 20% below baseline.

Everybody is different, but I don't see how blocking the brain's estrogen receptors would not help reduce suppression.

 

[CRACK HEAD]

It will help for sure. I saw a guy run S23 and YK11 for 8 weeks. He took 12.5mg enclomiphene every day from the start, and his testosterone only dipped about 20% below baseline.

Everybody is different, but I don't see how blocking the brain's estrogen receptors would not help reduce suppression.

I have also seen plenty of times where people tried this, got bloodwork done and it didn't work at all. Like you said everybody is different so it probably depends somewhat on individual response and what you are taking. Because I think all the gear you would be taking is way more suppressive to testosterone than enclomiphene would stimulate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sarmssourcetalk/comments/pq2bmk

 

[ZLB70]

It will help for sure. I saw a guy run S23 and YK11 for 8 weeks. He took 12.5mg enclomiphene every day from the start, and his testosterone only dipped about 20% below baseline.

Everybody is different, but I don't see how blocking the brain's estrogen receptors would not help reduce suppression.

More goes into it than just the brain detecting estrogen I’m pretty sure

 

[Moto140]

The 12.5mg dose of enclo started pulling his natural test back upward while on cycle.

So not only did 12.5 stop the suppression, it started recovering his test levels. Thats what he should have been on from day 1

Recap: He suppressed himself by 50%... Then started using an effective dose of enclo... And the suppression started reversing.

Imagine if he just took 12.5mg enclo from the start. I have no idea why people wait and let the suppression hit before they do anything. Its like standing in traffic, getting hit by a car, and then looking both ways.

 

[Moto140]

More goes into it than just the brain detecting estrogen I’m pretty sure

Yeah there are other factors for sure, but the estrogen pathway has the most influence on LH. I think a supraphysiological amount of androgens would be enough to shut your LH down through some other receptors in the HPTA, but sarms are not really androgenic. So you'll stay pretty close to baseline T if you take 12.5mg enclo.

 

[KvanH]

Yeah there are other factors for sure, but the estrogen pathway has the most influence on LH. I think a supraphysiological amount of androgens would be enough to shut your LH down through some other receptors in the HPTA, but sarms are not really androgenic. So you'll stay pretty close to baseline T if you take 12.5mg enclo.

I hope that's true, lol. May try it some day.

 

[KvanH]

Here's a very long thread about Clomid during cycle. Some blood test results can be found in there, but it's a task to find them. Most reports were of failure though. I think @BBiceps tried Anavar + Clomid and his test tanked, IIRC.

Clomid during cycle - AnabolicMinds.com

I posted this in another thread, but I figured this would be a valuable piece of info for many. My first (oral) cycle was long, 10 weeks and I had a kitchen sink PCT with clomid/ DAA/ and an OTC PCT. Got my test levels checked 3 weeks into PCT and it was around 250 total. A few cycles later-...

anabolicminds.com

 

[Moto140]

Here's a very long thread about Clomid during cycle. Some blood test results can be found in there, but it's a task to find them. Most reports were of failure though. I think @BBiceps tried Anavar + Clomid and his test tanked, IIRC.

Clomid during cycle - AnabolicMinds.com

I posted this in another thread, but I figured this would be a valuable piece of info for many. My first (oral) cycle was long, 10 weeks and I had a kitchen sink PCT with clomid/ DAA/ and an OTC PCT. Got my test levels checked 3 weeks into PCT and it was around 250 total. A few cycles later-...

anabolicminds.com

That OP had test level of 450 right after a 10 week tren cycle though... I didn't think the SERM on cycle would even be as helpful as that on an AAS cycle.

But yeah its not going to work the exact same for everyone. But the guys that it does not work for, they usually waited to add in the SERM, and/or they used a low dose of the serm.

You gotta take at least 12.5mg enclo or 25mg clomid from day 1 of the cycle. Anybody who waits a while to add the serm, or uses a fraction of the dose.. Yep suppressed as **** every time. They got hit by the car and now thry're trying to look both ways.

 

[KvanH]

That OP had test level of 450 right after a 10 week tren cycle though... I didn't think the SERM on cycle would even be as helpful as that on an AAS cycle.

But yeah its not going to work the exact same for everyone. But the guys that it does not work for, they usually waited to add in the SERM, and/or they used a low dose of the serm.

You gotta take at least 12.5mg enclo or 25mg clomid from day 1 of the cycle. Anybody who waits a while to add the serm, or uses a fraction of the dose.. Yep suppressed as **** every time. They got hit by the car and now thry're trying to look both ways.

Yeah, I think the OP was the only one who was successful with it though. Trust me, I want it to work. I just have mostly seen failed attemps. I'm not arguing just to argue nor have a strong stance here. Just stating that just in case.

 

[Moto140]

Really? The only time I've seen this Not work is when people wait a few weeks before adding in the serm. Or if they take less than 12.5mg enclo. That 6.25mg dose **** is not enough. If it doesnt work for somebody, they probably straight up just did it wrong.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PEDs/comments/lt9i52
https://www.reddit.com/r/sarmssourcetalk/comments/nfxvm7
https://www.reddit.com/r/PEDs/comments/dsxccu

 

[KvanH]

To be more precise, the attemps I've seen has been done with 'real' steroids, not sarms. It may work better with sarms. I've seen some reports of success with serm+sarms here in AM too, but not with blood work to prove. Some have even just said that "they don't feel suppressed", lol. I don't read Reddit for anything serious, humor only. So I have not looked there.

 

[BBiceps]

That OP had test level of 450 right after a 10 week tren cycle though... I didn't think the SERM on cycle would even be as helpful as that on an AAS cycle.

But yeah its not going to work the exact same for everyone. But the guys that it does not work for, they usually waited to add in the SERM, and/or they used a low dose of the serm.

You gotta take at least 12.5mg enclo or 25mg clomid from day 1 of the cycle. Anybody who waits a while to add the serm, or uses a fraction of the dose.. Yep suppressed as **** every time. They got hit by the car and now thry're trying to look both ways.

I started 25mg pharmacy Clomid and Var at the same time, still tanked my Test. It does not work.

 

[CRACK HEAD]

The 12.5mg dose of enclo started pulling his natural test back upward while on cycle.

So not only did 12.5 stop the suppression, it started recovering his test levels. Thats what he should have been on from day 1

Recap: He suppressed himself by 50%... Then started using an effective dose of enclo... And the suppression started reversing.

Imagine if he just took 12.5mg enclo from the start. I have no idea why people wait and let the suppression hit before they do anything. Its like standing in traffic, getting hit by a car, and then looking both ways.

The 12.5mg dose barely even started pulling his testosterone levels upwards. By less than 100ng. He was still borderline hypogonadal. His pre-cycle test levels were 600 so no it did not "stop the suppression" when his test levels were suppressed by like 50%.. The OP himself said "blood work results are in - no real changes from mid-cycle bloods: test is a tad higher but I hoped it'd be higher after doubling the enclo to 12.5mg for ~3.5 weeks" indicating that even he knows it's not very effective. Wow a whopping 70ng increase after almost a month..

 

[Moto140]

I started 25mg pharmacy Clomid and Var at the same time, still tanked my Test. It does not work.

I wouldn't expect it to with AAS. This strategy works under 2 conditions: 1- Alongside a SARM. And 2- Strong dose of SERM starting the first day of the cyclre.

I haven't ever seen that actually fail.

 

[Smont]

I’m not saying he’s wrong about taking a serm concurrently with a sarm will prevent shut down but it’s been from my understanding is it don’t prevent it. I could very well be wrong tho

It's a coin toss, it works for some ppl, definitely not everyone

 

[Smont]

I wouldn't expect it to with AAS. This strategy works under 2 conditions: 1- Alongside a SARM. And 2- Strong dose of SERM starting the first day of the cyclre.

I haven't ever seen that actually fail.

Your expressing your personal opinion and personal experience as facts. There is only a small group of ppl that serm on cycle seems to
Work for so consider yourself luck it worked for you. But you shouldn't be running around telling ppl that taking a serm with sarms will prevent shutdown because for the majority of people it's not going to work and your gonna get some one fucked up with bad or incomplete information.

This is how these rediculous reinvent the wheel trends start on the internet.

Your personal experience is valid information that should be shared, but you are 1 isolated case of success in a giant sea of failure.

Get what I'm saying?

 

[Smont]

To be more precise, the attemps I've seen has been done with 'real' steroids, not sarms. It may work better with sarms. I've seen some reports of success with serm+sarms here in AM too, but not with blood work to prove. Some have even just said that "they don't feel suppressed", lol. I don't read Reddit for anything serious, humor only. So I have not looked there.

This, when you start getting your information off of Reddit you know you've hit rock bottom

 

[Mikereyn513]

This, when you start getting your information off of Reddit you know you've hit rock bottom

Bwahahaha...yes!!!

 

[Smont]

Not to mention that bloodwork was done on 2-4mg of lgd. That's a fantastic dose, for a 7 year old girl.

 

[Moto140]

Your expressing your personal opinion and personal experience as facts. There is only a small group of ppl that serm on cycle seems to
Work for so consider yourself luck it worked for you. But you shouldn't be running around telling ppl that taking a serm with sarms will prevent shutdown because for the majority of people it's not going to work and your gonna get some one fucked up with bad or incomplete information.

This is how these rediculous reinvent the wheel trends start on the internet.

Your personal experience is valid information that should be shared, but you are 1 isolated case of success in a giant sea of failure.

Get what I'm saying?

I get what you're saying, but I'd also need to see an example of that protocol failing before I agree that my "opinion" exists in a sea of that protocol failing.

Legit enclo 12.5mg minimum from day 1 of a SARM cycle. I'm gonna say its possible that it can fail, but its a lot less risky than it beong a coin toss. Its more like rolling a dice and you only lose if it lands on #1

 

[Smont]

I get what you're saying, but I'd also need to see an example of that protocol failing before I agree that my "opinion" exists in a sea of that protocol failing.

Legit enclo 12.5mg minimum from day 1 of a SARM cycle. I'm gonna say its possible that it can fail, but its a lot less risky than it beong a coin toss. Its more like rolling a dice and you only lose if it lands on #1

I seen it fail probably over 100 times. Then I've had ppl send me there bloods after they failed and I've helped ppl get things back to normal.

If you were to walk on a beach, and every grain of sand was a person, the amount of people that can use serms on cycle and maintain testosterone levels wouldn't fill a cup.

12 successful ppl on Reddit and 5-6 here on anabolic minds is hardly a large enough sample pool.

Taking sarms In the absence of estrogen and dht is a crappy cycle in the first place. Add a serm and most people will find it to be a miserable cycle.

But some people a very select few have positive results with the serm on cycle

 

[cruze1911r1]

Fwiw I'm running 30mg lgd with 330mg oral 4 andro for a base. My balls have atrophied like a mofo but this cycle is great so far. I feel a little weird, probably because it's my first run with sarms. It should be expected to have shutdown on any reasonable cycle.