So nobody has topical test??

thomaslcudgel

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I think we should bring this back around to the mans inquiry! ...I had a look at big dans, (I’ve seen his site before) Vitamin X stack is some strong ish! ...You’re looking to narrow it down to a more streamlined and manageable cycle, yeah?

Seeing your experience level you could stack Vicious Labs’ dmz and msten....Best deal going right now...You already got my vote for the ‘DC base’ ...Tudca and NAC on cycle are highly recommended and definitely serms post...(10mg cardarine pre workout would be a nice addition if your budget allows)
I could definitely do this! Yeah the Vitamin X stack was super hard on my body :(. I literally took a year off anything after that run. I am definitely looking for something more manageable than that! It Decramine will keep me good as a test base then I would love running that and DMZ/M Sten
 
Hyde

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I could definitely do this! Yeah the Vitamin X stack was super hard on my body :(. I literally took a year off anything after that run. I am definitely looking for something more manageable than that! It Decramine will keep me good as a test base then I would love running that and DMZ/M Sten
Vicious also has DMAA caps if you’re looking for a blast like old times
 
xR1pp3Rx

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I’m waiting on bloods from a Clinic as I have secondary hypogonadism, but if I only get a serm, anti e and hcg therapy, or nothing. I’m considering 1Andro/epiandro/Kronos cycle.

1 andro from black stone and epiandro from sns stano plexx . 11oxo from @nostrum420

if not, may just return to Ep1logue and laxo lol . Idk if my body is just sensitive to hormones .

hopefully TRT ir a reboot of my pituitary
why not run primagen from APex as well? that is 1 andro and epi together.
 

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I know a little. What you came up with above is accurate, 500 is the general rule of thumb. Some exceptions can be made for highly lipophilic compounds depending on the application. For instance there are fatty acids that are well over 500 that your skin will absorb pretty readily.

Then you have to consider if you want systemic delivery vs localized. I think most high mw APIs will be metabolized locally at least to some degree especially if they are highly lipophilic.

All of that being said. TD test wouldn't be too hard to make.
Curious as to your thoughts on a simple transdermal test? You think test base with your carrier(salvo, dmso etc) of choice would suffice? Or would it be more involved than that? I’ve thought about switching from injections- but without bloodwork(or insight from someone more knowledgeable)... I have not tried yet. Thx in advance
 
StarScream66

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This is entirely incorrect.
Can you site a source?

Curious as to your thoughts on a simple transdermal test? You think test base with your carrier(salvo, dmso etc) of choice would suffice? Or would it be more involved than that? I’ve thought about switching from injections- but without bloodwork(or insight from someone more knowledgeable)... I have not tried yet. Thx in advance
I know you didn't ask me, but you can read the clinical pharmacology on AndroGel, which is the prescribed version of transdermal test and get some hard info about it.

 
Carnivorecon

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Maybe it’s not that s4 is mild , though. Maybe it’s just that no one can run it long enough or consistently / high enough to get other sides.
Good point. I've often wondered where the rec dosages for these novel compounds come from, like what if people had started using superdrol at 1mg a day when it 1st came out and that was always the protocol for everyone, it would be universally known as one of the mildest peds there is lol
 
Renew1

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Can you site a source?



I know you didn't ask me, but you can read the clinical pharmacology on AndroGel, which is the prescribed version of transdermal test and get some hard info about it.

Androgel is relatively crappy when it comes to getting usable Test into your system (for whatever reason) a very few guys have reported some success with it, but the vast majority kinda end up hating it.
Simple Transdernal Test however, has a good track record, and MANY guys have had great success with it (including myself).
 
StarScream66

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Androgel is relatively crappy when it comes to getting usable Test into your system (for whatever reason) a very few guys have reported some success with it, but the vast majority kinda end up hating it.
Simple Transdernal Test however, has a good track record, and MANY guys have had great success with it (including myself).
I'm guessing it's a dosage thing. Androgel only has 1% testosterone for the formula. But, I think some important information can be gleaned from it since it was made by a pharmaceutical company and they obviously tested what worked best for epidermal absorption.

So, for example, here is what they use for their delivery method:

Pharmacologically inactive ingredients in AndroGel 1% are carbomer 980, ethanol 67.0%, isopropyl myristate, purified water, and sodium hydroxide.
It's interesting that they add sodium hydroxide in there, because that's the same stuff that's in Draino, but it's not bad if you're just using a tiny amount. They might have it in their to irritate the skin to cause it to absorb the test.

Now, this is coming from the company that made it, so obviously they want it to sound good, but this is the clinical pharmacology which they ran research on, so it should be good information.

AndroGel 1% delivers physiologic amounts of testosterone, producing circulating testosterone concentrations that approximate normal concentrations (298 - 1043 ng/dL) seen in healthy men. AndroGel 1% provides continuous transdermal delivery of testosterone for 24 hours following a single application to intact, clean, dry skin of the shoulders, upper arms and/or abdomen.

AndroGel 1% is a hydroalcoholic formulation that dries quickly when applied to the skin surface. The skin serves as a reservoir for the sustained release of testosterone into the systemic circulation. Approximately 10% of the testosterone dose applied on the skin surface from AndroGel is absorbed into systemic circulation. In a study with AndroGel 1% 100 mg , all patients showed an increase in serum testosterone within 30 minutes, and eight of nine patients had a serum testosterone concentration within normal range by 4 hours after the initial application. Absorption of testosterone into the blood continues for the entire 24-hour dosing interval. Serum concentrations approximate the steady-state concentration by the end of the first 24 hours and are at steady state by the second or third day of dosing.
So, they're only doing 100mg per dosage. What dosage do you guys use when you make transdermal test?

And this is one thing I hadn't considered when talking about transdermal test. Say you rub it on your shoulders and arms and then go to have sex with your girl. That transdermal test can get on her skin and she can absorb some of it, which isn't necessarily a horrible thing, but if you're using a lot of test, it potentially could be. So they recommend wearing a shirt during sex to prevent that transfer.

Testosterone Transfer from Male Patients to Female Partners
The potential for dermal testosterone transfer following AndroGel 1% use was evaluated in a clinical study between males dosed with AndroGel 1% and their untreated female partners. Two (2) to 12 hours after application of 100 mg of testosterone administered as AndroGel 1% by the male subjects, the couples (N = 38 couples) engaged in daily, 15-minute sessions of vigorous skin-to-skin contact so that the female partners gained maximum exposure to the AndroGel 1% application sites. Under these study conditions, all unprotected female partners had a serum testosterone concentration > 2 times the baseline value at some time during the study. When a shirt covered the application site(s), the transfer of testosterone from the males to the female partners was completely prevented.
One interesting thing they show is the steady state dose of testosterone that is circulating through your body and how it peaks when you first apply it then drops off.



Unlike something like test enan which has a much more reliable steady state and you can see it slowly decline after 2 weeks,


Steady-state mean serum levels of testosterone, bioavailable testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and estradiol in thirty-three hypogonadal 22- to 65-year-old men given 200 mg of intramuscular testosterone enanthate every 2 weeks. Error bars indicate standard deviations. Dashed lines denote upper and lower limits of normal range. Adapted, with permission, from Dobs et al.7(3)
Source

So, that's just an interesting comparison. I think it's just better to pin it overall.

I still say that curt2go and Big Daddy Chemo had it right with their formulas. (Those two are actually the people who started AM). They tested and tested various delivery methods in the early days when transdermals were a new thing and everyone was trying to figure out what were the best ways to make a drug delivery method that penetrates the epidermis with maximum efficiency.

Big Daddy Chemo even had an Excel spreadsheet (which I attached - virustotal link below showing it's not infected)that works where you can calculate how much powder of several various substances to a transdermal formula and how much of each chem you need to penetrate the skin, along with how much you're going to get into the skin. I've attached the file here, it should still work fine in modern Excel or and it seemed to work okay when I opened it with LibreOffice's Calc.
VirusTotal results of BDC's spreadsheet file: https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/8f74089c1af50ae2082b917a5d85f3858fac010f78f76881be81cf2ffbda4eaf/detection (it's clean)

Curt2go's formula is here:

Here is the recipe that has taken homebrewing to the next level..
This is the recipe that the scientist that specializes in transdermals said was probably 50% absorption....

40% ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL (99%) OR EHTANOL(C1-C4 ALCOHOL)
15% ISOPROPYL MIRISTRATE
15% ISOPROPYL PALMITATE
10% OLEIC ACID
10% PROPYLENE GLYCOL
10% DMSO (99%)

DESCRITIONS OF WHY EACH IS USED...

ISO is used as a solvent. It will help disolve the ph into the solution. It also has some penetration properties.

IPP is used to lubricate the skin it softens it up so the skin can be penetrated easily by the ph(dries quicker and is not as oily feeling as the IPM).

IPM is used for the same reason as the IPP.
Keep in mind that you can use only either IPM or IPP but at a higher %. 15 + 15 = 30%....

OA this is a powerful penetration enhancer. It screws with the lipids in the skin to let the ph go through.

PG this stuff is oily. What it does is keeps the moisture from leaving the skin. The more moisture the easier it is for ther ph to penetrate. NO you can't just use water....

DMSO man i love this stuff. It is the most powerful penetration enhancer that is out there that is safe. This addition puts us over the top. This is a must in the solution. If you have sensitive skin this may irritate it but don't you want ot get bi. If it irritates too much go to 5% and add 5% to ISO.

If you don't like the smell of it then you could substitue 5% d-limenene for 5% of PG. BUT I liek to just put in 2ml of scented oil.
Go with the oil. Don't screw with the recipe......!!!!!!!!!
Other factors that help penetration....
1. Rub the ph on vigorously.. RUB HARD
2. MAX 8g ph in 240ml solution... The less ph in the more surface area the better penetration.
3. Try to wait until dry to put clothing on. Hoefully for you it is only 5 mins max
4. If you can remove hair where ph isa being applied. The ph can attach to the hair and thus not go into your skin. SHAVE IT OFF...
You could probably swap out propylene glycol with vegetable glycerin if you didn't want to use that. One other interesting ingredient I came across in a hair loss formula I was trying is called Laurocapram

Laurocapram is a percutaneous enhancer. Upon application to the skin, laurocapram interacts with lipids in the stratum corneum and may enhance the ability of the skin to absorb a hydrophilic chemical.
So, that would be perfect for a steroid transdermal since AAS are hydrophobic. It sounds like it would be an interesting addition to a transdermal formula.

I found some on a site that sells stuff to make cosmetics. It's $700 for 2lbs, so that might be a group buy thing if you think it's worth it.

More info about Laurocapram (I ran out of room in this post)
Laurocapram - Chemical Book Database

Hope that helps,
-SS
 

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justhere4comm

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I've noticed theres plenty of sources (without mentioning namea) that offer tons of goodies. HOWEVER...I've seen topical MENT, Tren but none of the sources actually offer a TD form of just test. Why is that? My wife is against pinning and I'm just trying to find some Test cream to use as a base for my orals....HELP!
I want to revisit the original post.
Why is she against pinning? What's the difference between pinning and TD with regard to her?
It's your *ss that's getting stuck, and there is no issue with transference.

Just my .02
 
nostrum420

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Curious as to your thoughts on a simple transdermal test? You think test base with your carrier(salvo, dmso etc) of choice would suffice? Or would it be more involved than that? I’ve thought about switching from injections- but without bloodwork(or insight from someone more knowledgeable)... I have not tried yet. Thx in advance
It could certainly be done. Test prop would also work and may be easier to find raws for.
 
Renew1

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I want to revisit the original post.
Why is she against pinning? What's the difference between pinning and TD with regard to her?
It's your *ss that's getting stuck, and there is no issue with transference.

Just my .02
Some people will just never accept someone they care about injecting a substance (that isn't from a Dr.) Into themselves with a needle.
Although I'm obviously not one of those people, I do understand their feelings.
 
StarScream66

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But once the TD is fully dry it’s not at risk for transfer to another...
That's not necessarily true, and if you're using some of the formulas that are really greasy, it might never fully dry. Even when it's dry, it can still be transferred skin to skin (think about it, you're having sex, getting really sweaty) just by the action of rubbing it. That's why they tell women who are pregnant to not even TOUCH a Propecia tablet for fear of the baby developing birth defects from the 2AR inhibitor.
 
Smont

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I've noticed theres plenty of sources (without mentioning namea) that offer tons of goodies. HOWEVER...I've seen topical MENT, Tren but none of the sources actually offer a TD form of just test. Why is that? My wife is against pinning and I'm just trying to find some Test cream to use as a base for my orals....HELP!
Because td test sucks, horribly
 
brofessorx

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My source is me. That’s enough.
But back In the day, when I was new, and wanted to correct misinformation, I would go get the research with the data based information and post it.
if you want to know about enzymes in the body and steroid metabolism, the info is easily googled.
I’m too old to care anymore.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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That's not necessarily true, and if you're using some of the formulas that are really greasy, it might never fully dry. Even when it's dry, it can still be transferred skin to skin (think about it, you're having sex, getting really sweaty) just by the action of rubbing it. That's why they tell women who are pregnant to not even TOUCH a Propecia tablet for fear of the baby developing birth defects from the 2AR inhibitor.
found a study a while back you may be interested in.. they found that after 40 mins any skin to skin tranfer was nil or negligable. you might look that one up for comparison to your post above.
 
nostrum420

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Think of it this way: once the carrier is gone, what's left on your skin is a super fine layer of raws on your skin. If the raws could absorb into your skin on their own, why would anyone bother with a carrier in the first place?
 
cheftepesh1

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why not run primagen from APex as well? that is 1 andro and epi together.
You can also look at Iconic Formulations Icon which should be available later this week.
 
YoungThor

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I don’t know if it’s been mentioned yet but when you do find topical test you’ll notice how expensive it is. You’ll be paying way more than you would for injectible. I’d get proviron with it so you could run a slightly lower dose of test and still get a good result. This will save you some money. I might try that out this summer.
 
YoungThor

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The good news is that you’ll likely find a UGL distributor selling legit pharma grade test gel that was bought in a country like Thailand, where you can just get all this stuff over the counter. So at least you’ll know you’re getting about 50mg per pump or packet. Now how much absorbs is going to vary.
 
brofessorx

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Think of it this way: once the carrier is gone, what's left on your skin is a super fine layer of raws on your skin. If the raws could absorb into your skin on their own, why would anyone bother with a carrier in the first place?
The carrier is to enhance absorption.
But assuming the skin had been saturated, the leftover compound wouldn’t absorb.
But as it’s absorbed, if any steroid is still on the skin, can continue to be absorbed.
steroids are fat soluble, and your skin secretes oil that is also heated up by body heat.
Absorption isn’t going to be like initially with the carrier in place, but still can continue.
“You don’t need a carrier to use topicals, just enhance it”
 
xR1pp3Rx

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The carrier is to enhance absorption.
But assuming the skin had been saturated, the leftover compound wouldn’t absorb.
But as it’s absorbed, if any steroid is still on the skin, can continue to be absorbed.
steroids are fat soluble, and your skin secretes oil that is also heated up by body heat.
Absorption isn’t going to be like initially with the carrier in place, but still can continue.
“You don’t need a carrier to use topicals, just enhance it”
40 mins bro 40 mins
 
xR1pp3Rx

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Now how would primagen do as a Test base?
do you require a test base as you put it? as in are you running other sh17 that needs test for some reason?
are you on trt hrt or do you cycle? answer that first.

but no its not a good "test base"

that said there really aren't any good test base products left.. some will point you to 4 andro but I don't think that **** is worth it.

I recommend if you need a "test base" u grab some test !

primagen would be a fine addition to some stacks and works great stand alone too~
 

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I’d consider 130 a pretty high dose for me at least. 50-75 was the sweet spot for me
Yeah, I have never ran it high and I think I had a bad arimistane product now that I think about it .

Going to try a proven brand next time around
 
YoungThor

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As long as it converts to estrogen and the steroid itself is based on the testosterone molecule, it should technically function as a test base. Take dbol for example. Arnold and other golden era guys never used test. They felt good from Dbol. They had the false belief that test is super harsh. Today we sometimes hear of guys using trest.

But what are you running anyway? If it’s a sarm or weak pro hormone then you should be able to get away without a test base. If you take test gel for an ostarine cycle then you’ve essentially decided to run a test cycle with ostarine as an add on. Because ostarine is obviously weak as shyt.
 
Jinsun

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Why not just use transdermal estrogen? Just send your mom or grandma to the doctor for some extra lotions : D
 
thomaslcudgel

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As long as it converts to estrogen and the steroid itself is based on the testosterone molecule, it should technically function as a test base. Take dbol for example. Arnold and other golden era guys never used test. They felt good from Dbol. They had the false belief that test is super harsh. Today we sometimes hear of guys using trest.

But what are you running anyway? If it’s a sarm or weak pro hormone then you should be able to get away without a test base. If you take test gel for an ostarine cycle then you’ve essentially decided to run a test cycle with ostarine as an add on. Because ostarine is obviously weak as shyt.
I was looking at doing MSten...a test base and that's pretty much it. I was teetering between Td Trest and or Dermacrine for a base...I have a good source for test and the wife isnt being annoying anymore about it after a talk....HOWEVER...with the coronavirus issues I'm nervous as to having my test shipped. This is why I was looking for alternative bases.
 

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I was looking at doing MSten...a test base and that's pretty much it. I was teetering between Td Trest and or Dermacrine for a base...I have a good source for test and the wife isnt being annoying anymore about it after a talk....HOWEVER...with the coronavirus issues I'm nervous as to having my test shipped. This is why I was looking for alternative bases.
Are you worried about customs, or coronavirus being on/in the package?
 
Smont

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I was looking at doing MSten...a test base and that's pretty much it. I was teetering between Td Trest and or Dermacrine for a base...I have a good source for test and the wife isnt being annoying anymore about it after a talk....HOWEVER...with the coronavirus issues I'm nervous as to having my test shipped. This is why I was looking for alternative bases.
Get a couple bottles of dermacrine and use 5-6 pumps a day. You should feel pretty darn good on that. Stack it with pretty much whatever you want
 
StarScream66

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My source is me. That’s enough.
But back In the day, when I was new, and wanted to correct misinformation, I would go get the research with the data based information and post it.
if you want to know about enzymes in the body and steroid metabolism, the info is easily googled.
I’m too old to care anymore.
Well, can you give me a hint where to look or maybe some keywords to search for in a study?

However, I was rethinking it, and I realized that transdermal skips 1st pass metabolism, so it bypasses the liver. So, the conversion theoretically has to be happening somewhere.

found a study a while back you may be interested in.. they found that after 40 mins any skin to skin tranfer was nil or negligable. you might look that one up for comparison to your post above.
Can you give me some clues on where to look and find said study?

typically for these “base” products, you really need some estrogen conversion for them to work as intended. Pretty sure 1andro and epi andro don’t do that.
Why would you need estrogen?

do you require a test base as you put it? as in are you running other sh17 that needs test for some reason?
are you on trt hrt or do you cycle? answer that first.

but no its not a good "test base"

that said there really aren't any good test base products left.. some will point you to 4 andro but I don't think that **** is worth it.

I recommend if you need a "test base" u grab some test !

primagen would be a fine addition to some stacks and works great stand alone too~
Nobody has testosterone powder without any esters attached? That seems funny, I used to see that all the time in bulk powders.

Also, can you aware me on what Primagen is? I googled it and came up with some.... strange results.

I was looking at doing MSten...a test base and that's pretty much it. I was teetering between Td Trest and or Dermacrine for a base...I have a good source for test and the wife isnt being annoying anymore about it after a talk....HOWEVER...with the coronavirus issues I'm nervous as to having my test shipped. This is why I was looking for alternative bases.
Coronavirus is definitely delaying shipping from overseas. Like for example, a lot of islands in the Pacific and Asian region are getting little to no flights out of their small countries, and some have even prohibited a lot of mail from getting out.

If you're worried about coronavirus getting into your product, you probably shouldn't worry. Coronavirus doesn't appear to be able to last on surfaces for very long.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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However, I was rethinking it, and I realized that transdermal skips 1st pass metabolism, so it bypasses the liver. So, the conversion theoretically has to be happening somewhere.



Can you give me some clues on where to look and find said study?



Why would you need estrogen?



Nobody has testosterone powder without any esters attached? That seems funny, I used to see that all the time in bulk powders.

Also, can you aware me on what Primagen is? I googled it and came up with some.... strange results.
1. now youre cooking with gas!

2. key words to try: Androgel, skin transfer, transdermal, transfer time, testoterone.

3. Estrogen optimization is benifitial to growth, libido, mood

4. the term "test base" is not referring to test no ester. its more like you add other drugs to your base of test...

5. Primagen is Apex Alchemy's 1 andro / epiandro Cosmetic offering. (TD) here is a link;

 
StarScream66

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Because no estrogen= low libido, joint pain, higher risk of injury, probably less energy, worse cholesterol, and less gains in strength. Just for starters.
Well, I can agree with that. But if you're using test, you'll get those benefits anyway. I don't think there's any reason to add additional estrogen to the cycle, that seems like a recipe for gyno.
 

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Well, I can agree with that. But if you're using test, you'll get those benefits anyway. I don't think there's any reason to add additional estrogen to the cycle, that seems like a recipe for gyno.
I never suggested adding additional estrogen to a cycle. What I said is that 1AD and epiandro generally fall short of being a legitimate base because they are unable to aromatize, and you end up with imbalanced(low) estrogen levels.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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its true … that's how I read it ^^
 

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@manifesto and I will wait for our answer

:unsure:Another is; does using dhea suppress dhea

It does not look like there is a negative feedback loop for exogenous DHEA to suppress internal DHEA/DHEA-S:


In theory, you would expect some DHEA/DHEA-S suppression from exogenous test/PH use, since the testes are a site of direct DHEA/DHEA-S production in men, but some data is mixed:

 
Hyde

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It does not look like there is a negative feedback loop for exogenous DHEA to suppress internal DHEA/DHEA-S:


In theory, you would expect some DHEA/DHEA-S suppression from exogenous test/PH use, since the testes are a site of direct DHEA/DHEA-S production in men, but some data is mixed:

God I’ve missed you Lou
 
~Vision~

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I would stay far away from topical hormones, they only raise markers slightly and the possibility of them cross-contaminating others around you is very,very likely.. The last thing you need is having your wife grow a mustache, she would really would be pissed then... Topical hormones have a purpose but not for PED use. You'll waste your time and only end up possibly shutting yourself down creating undesired events thereafter.

I see a handful of in house sources that offer sarms and peptides. Take a look at these sponsors here, you can run a very successful oral cycle with great results without even touching other compounds and furthermore these supps are wife friendly!
 
thebigt

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I would stay far away from topical hormones, they only raise markers slightly and the possibility of them cross-contaminating others around you is very,very likely.. The last thing you need is having your wife grow a mustache, she would really would be pissed then... Topical hormones have a purpose but not for PED use. You'll waste your time and only end up possibly shutting yourself down creating undesired events thereafter.

I see a handful of in house sources that offer sarms and peptides. Take a look at these sponsors here, you can run a very successful oral cycle with great results without even touching other compounds and furthermore these supps are wife friendly!
you have experience of wife growing mustashe:)
 
YoungThor

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I would stay far away from topical hormones, they only raise markers slightly and the possibility of them cross-contaminating others around you is very,very likely.. The last thing you need is having your wife grow a mustache, she would really would be pissed then... Topical hormones have a purpose but not for PED use. You'll waste your time and only end up possibly shutting yourself down creating undesired events thereafter.

I see a handful of in house sources that offer sarms and peptides. Take a look at these sponsors here, you can run a very successful oral cycle with great results without even touching other compounds and furthermore these supps are wife friendly!
I think you’re exaggerating. I used a trt dose of transdermal testosterone and was able to gain 7 lbs while leaning out, and I had no access to a gym. Just body weight exercises, using random objects as weight, and doing very hard manual labor for 45+ hours a week. I was working away from home but would come home most weekends. It was like a congugal visit. And after having sex with my woman dozens of times (always after I’d applied the test gel earlier in the morning), my woman never grew a mustache.
 
Renew1

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I think you’re exaggerating. I used a trt dose of transdermal testosterone and was able to gain 7 lbs while leaning out, and I had no access to a gym. Just body weight exercises, using random objects as weight, and doing very hard manual labor for 45+ hours a week. I was working away from home but would come home most weekends. It was like a congugal visit. And after having sex with my woman dozens of times (always after I’d applied the test gel earlier in the morning), my woman never grew a mustache.
I've also had good success with topicals.
 
~Vision~

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rosie odonnall?(n)

I think you’re exaggerating. I used a trt dose of transdermal testosterone and was able to gain 7 lbs while leaning out, and I had no access to a gym. Just body weight exercises, using random objects as weight, and doing very hard manual labor for 45+ hours a week. I was working away from home but would come home most weekends. It was like a congugal visit. And after having sex with my woman dozens of times (always after I’d applied the test gel earlier in the morning), my woman never grew a mustache.
First and foremost biology/science along with the endocrine society has provided numerous studies & data that supports topical application hormone replacement therapy is not the most user-friendly protocol and it can be detrimental too individuals that are not intended to be exposed to the parenting hormone. For crying out loud the leaflets alone talk about the potentials and hazards of cross-contamination, so let's not minimize it and act like it doesn't exist just because you had "an experience". If you were applying it to yourself and not keeping your spouse protected than shame on you, you should have been better educated..HRT is not a one-size-fits-all type of therapy, it is not a cookie cutter practice. Individual responses will vary, just like they will subQ or IM methods.
Secondly the topicals are not the most ideal or practical application in therapy because of how piss-poor people respond to it along with it's below average response. (Unless you're a 65 year old man)
I stated that topicals have a role and serve a purpose.
Now, I am 100% confident that I have a very keen understanding with what I'm talking about, I will not make any sort of statement if I could not support it.
If you look at the ratio with any study that has been provided by the endocrinology society you'll see that it is not the gold standard in which HRT is considered as a go-to first option.
Like I said it has a purpose and some people can use it for its therapeutic advantages, however there is far more disadvantages and much better options available.

Advocating that you gained 7 lbs from using the topical, while mentioning all of your other environmental factors is hardly any proof that can bonafide or support your statement. You just described the everyday manual labor in the workforce with some type of experience that they've encountered while working hard.
It's not like you were in a controlled environment with other individuals while running a trial with some attempting to induce the same environmental and nutritional influences or factors that you had, while another group did less than.

It sounds like you had success and truly I'm happy for you, good for you having that as an option or alternative in your future, but hard work and diet alone can provide the same results.
Put someone on topicals and watch how quick things change when it has a placebo on them.
By the way placebo is real, people have beat PB's and also made drastic physical changes while taking placebos. I'm not suggesting that this is the case here with you, but it is something to consider, unless you have blood work as well? Considering that your evidence to support its success is long hours and hard work provided you with 7 lb, can be equal or equivalent to someone that just adjusted their macros slightly. Heck, the average person wakes up 3-6 pounds lighter everyday, only to gain it back. There's too many environmental influences.

Don't take my statement out of context, I did say it served a purpose. I will reiterate the potential hazards that topicals could possibly host if used incorrectly.
My reference about growing a mustache is sarcasm. ;) ;)
Topicals, creams, patches, pellet implants and Sub-Q infusions mostly leave more people disappointed than anything.
This is real life clinical data and not just anecdote reports using the comparison of a scale and manual labor as concrete evidence.

If someone does not need TRT and they choose to use a topical test for performance enhancement properties, you can guarantee the majority will be very disappointed..That is why it is not a thing ;) and it's not like the stuff is unavailable, because guys are throwing it away. Lol

I have known many many people throughout the years that couldn't give that stuff away if they tried because no one would take it and they had tons of it in their bathroom vanities.

For performance enhancement properties the stuff is garbage. It's as useful as oral testosterone! 🤣😂
 

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