So I'm getting scared of M1T

[jedimaster]

I've been reading this forum a lot and have determined that M1T isn't something to be trifled with and, at 32 years of age, isn't for me. I did read a post here: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showpost.php?p=159161&postcount=12 that looked interesting. Can I really expect much from transdermal 4AD? What else should I use, and is PCT necessary with it?

 

[Longdog]

You can definitely obtain M1t-like gains with a 4ad/1-test transdermal. The only difference is that it will take you 6 weeks vs 2 weeks on M1t to get the same result. The transdermal would have milder sides as well. This combo has become less popular due to the "get big quick" mentality of noobs using M1t. I think the transdermal is just as effective & easier to retain gains.
Yes, you need a full PCT with any androgen use.

 

[cr4ytonic]

If you do 1-test/4ad transdermal you won't be dissapointed, 4 weeks pct with nolva will be plenty.

 

[meathead1987]

I would gladly sacrivice 4weeks and a few $$$ for less sides and greater retainment of gains.

 

[topolo]

I like the transdermal route but I do not find it nearly as effective

 

[jedimaster]

Thanks guys- do I need to worry about my liver with this combo? Will I need Milk Thistle, etc?

 

[Longdog]

Your liver is a little bit stressed while on non-methylated androgens. liver protectants may help, but it's not a necessity like it is with M1t.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

The transdermal would have milder sides as well. QUOTE]

Exactly how much milder is a trans 1-test as compared to M1T? You know the usual acne, lethargy,cramps,etc,etc. I'm sure that more then a few people are interested in this comparison.

 

[T-Bone]

As far as sides go, M1T compared to a transdermal..Night and Day!. The sides are not worth it with M1T. You won't retain the gains with M1T like you will with a longer transdermal cycle. You body cannot build that much muscle in 2 weeks. Most of what you gain can be!attributed to water and fat with M1T. Slow and steady wins the race!. Screw that 2 week ****, the human body just does not work that way!

 

[cr4ytonic]

It is not *good* for your liver but I doubt it is worth worrying about, just don't do anything stupid like drink excessively while on (for many reasons).

 

[meathead1987]

I like the transdermal rouve but I do not find it nearly as effective

What? Transdermals are more effective.

 

[Jayhawkk]

transdermals are just a pain in the ass.

 

[meathead1987]

transdermals are just a pain in the ass.

I was referring to efficiancy, but I would prefer dermals to orals, the sustained delivery appeals to me, even if I can't do certain things at certain times.

Each to his own I guess.

 

[FrTimothy]

pin it

 

[mrbig]

I just came off a cycle of M1T I found it to be great.

 

[meathead1987]

I just came off a cycle of M1T I found it to be great.

excellent subjective detail there. lol

Anythig other than it bing "great"? How much did you gain, how far into PCT are you, what was your cycle?

 

[jas123]

excellent subjective detail there. lol

Anythig other than it bing "great"? How much did you gain, how far into PCT are you, what was your cycle?

Bro, I hope you're not considering using PH/PS at 17. That's definitely too early and you can make great gains with just good diet and proper training.

 

[meathead1987]

I am not considering at all. This was covered in another thread. I am simply researching so I can stock up for after the ban.

 

[jas123]

I am not considering at all. This was covered in another thread. I am simply researching so I can stock up for after the ban.

Fair enough. Good luck.

 

[bioman]

Meaty has thus far shown himself to be an apt pupil and has been respectful thus far.

 

[meathead1987]

And he plans to be for the forseable(sp?) future. I plan to stay natural until Iam at least 20, probably 21, but with the ban and all, I needed to get researching. I have a pretty good understanding of PH's now, but the more I can read, the better.

 

[bioman]

Marvelous.

If you lie and do a cycle before then we will break you like chicken bone!

:smite: :twisted: :nono: oke:

 

[meathead1987]

Its a deal

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

for what its worth I am doing a 3 wk cycle of
10 mg M1T
20 mg M5AA
600 mg 4AD oral.
on day 6 I started feeling some pains where your liver is located. got freaked out and went in for some tests. doc said liver tests are fine. it turned out to be something unrelated. no signs of methyls. I know it was still early in the cycle. but I was happy with the results. I did not get the #s from the blood tests.

 

[Longdog]

Exactly how much milder is a trans 1-test as compared to M1T? You know the usual acne, lethargy,cramps,etc,etc. I'm sure that more then a few people are interested in this comparison.

T-bone's post says it pretty well, it is night & day. But to be more specific:

You will still get lethargy & a little acne (if prone) on a 1-test/4ad dermal cycle. The lethargy on m1t can be brutal, with a general "feeling like ****" during much of the cycle. On 1-test, the lethargy is just mild lethargy. The cramping is specific to m1t, you won't get that at all. The liver toxicity is 100x less with a dermal, most newbs don't realize that M1t is more toxic than all but a few AAS. M1t effects everybody different, some guys have few sides at all. It has it's place if you can handle the sides, but transdermal stacks can be just as effective.

As stated above, pinning it is the most effective way, but many find dermals easier or don't want to pin.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Well, thats good to hear. Trans 1T for me, it's hard as **** doing cardio or even walking to class with M1T.

 

[jedimaster]

OK- so here's a question for proponents of HIT:
I currently train once a week- if I were to do 1-test/4AD for 6 weeks with a good 4 weeks of PCT, would I be able to double my volume to twice a week without overtraining? I'm assuming that the ph would help recovery time to the point I'd be able to train more often on cycle.

 

[Longdog]

The PH will absolutely increase recovery time, & you should increase volume.

Are you saying you train each bodypart once a week or you train only 1 day a week?

 

[bioman]

Definitely take advantage of the increased recovery while on.

 

[jedimaster]

I train once a week, period. Mentzer starts you out with training once every 4 days, then increasing the amount of rest days as you go. I also run twice a week, which technically you're not supposed to do, but I kind of enjoy it. I've trained so many different protocols, and HIT has worked the best. It's the only program that gets me strong, and frankly, my arms were never over 16 inches before it.
I'm currently trying to gather the best sources, including the site sponsors, to buy the ph, nolva, etc. Can anyone chime in with their favorites?

 

[Longdog]

The board sponsors have everything you need for PCT. You can get t-gel from custom or physical enhancement. You'll have to get the 1-test/4ad powder from blackstarlabs, 1fast400, or powernutrition.

 

[jedimaster]

I was looking to do transdermals- I thought 1-test and 4AD were available that way?

 

[meathead1987]

They are.

S1+ is a good 1T/4AD dermal product.

 

[jedimaster]

I've heard of S1- is it a combo of 1-test and 4AD? I've only seen them available seperately.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Yep, check out 1Fast400's web site.

 

[chasec]

Not to mess with your training philosophy, but training 1x/Week probably won't allow you to take maximum advantage of the PH's effects. I would probably try for at least a 2 day, upper body/lower body split; if not the standard 3 day back/bi's, chest/tri's, legs split.

 

[jedimaster]

Thanks! I did locate what I need at 1fast. Now I just need to wait for Custom Nutrition to get their Nolva restocked.

Oh, and I will add volume to my routine- I'm thinking at least 2 a week, maybe 3 with HIT style.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

One of the primary advantages of taking PHs aside from the anabolic/androgenic effects is their ability to decrease recovery time needed between workouts, so your new plan I action looks good.

 

[rrgg]

[donning flame suit]

I understand that nolva is preferred PCT for virtually everything... and yes, I personally know where to order nolva online.

Nevertheless, assuming for a moment that nolva cannot be obtained... has anyone used S1+ (or a similar cycle) followed by metacort? I was under the impression that this is actually adequate PCT for S1+.

(transdermal Metacort contains 100mg Androstenetrione and 100mg 7-OXO-DHEA 100 mg per serving)

 

[cr4ytonic]

I tried just 6-oxo once and was unhappy, nolva is so cheap from customnutritionwarehouse.com , why risk it?

Haven't tried metacourt, let us know how it goes if you do it.

 

[jedimaster]

For anyone who read my post about custom being out of Nolva, as of last night, they were restocked.

 

[rrgg]

cr4ytonic-- Metacort is relatively inexpensive. (I specifically didn't mention ergo's 6-oxo).

 

[cr4ytonic]

Metacort is about $30 a bottle, nolva is $30 for 3 grams or $10 a gram, you can squeeze 1 pct cycle out of 1 gram, so $10 for a great PCT is a pretty good deal.

 

[rrgg]

cr4ytonic-- When I said metacort is relatively inexpensive, I meant relative to ergopharm's 6-oxo which you mentioned.

I tried to make it pretty clear that I want to exclude nolva from this discussion. Yes, I know where to get nolva. I know it is cheap. I know everyone likes it. I don't want to start a debate about why someone does or does not want to use nolva. I'm simply asking about the effectiveness of a transdermal like metacort on its own.

If you used s1+ or some similar 1-test/4-ad dosing, followed by a transdermal like metacort, I'd like to know your experience either way. I've actually heard some people say this is good enough -- others say "no," but it's all been speculation so far.

 

[Longdog]

cr4ytonic-- When I said metacort is relatively inexpensive, I meant relative to ergopharm's 6-oxo which you mentioned.

I tried to make it pretty clear that I want to exclude nolva from this discussion. Yes, I know where to get nolva. I know it is cheap. I know everyone likes it. I don't want to start a debate about why someone does or does not want to use nolva. I'm simply asking about the effectiveness of a transdermal like metacort on its own.

If you used s1+ or some similar 1-test/4-ad dosing, followed by a transdermal like metacort, I'd like to know your experience either way. I've actually heard some people say this is good enough -- others say "no," but it's all been speculation so far.

1-test is not mild, it is a steroid & highly suppressive to your HPTA.
6-oxo (androstenetrione) is the only ingredient in metacort which will help HTPA recovery, 7-oxo is simply an anti-catabolic. When taking oral 6-oxo, you need 600mg/day for weeks 1-2, then reduced gradually. I'm not sure how well 6-oxo works transdermally, but you'd need at least 6 servings/day of metacort to start. So it really is not cheap. I can assure that any form of 6-oxo will not work as well nolva or clomid. Yes it would work better than nothing, & yes it would help. But alone, I would not recommend it for PCT. It would have some merit if used along with nolva/clomid though.

If you want to run a half-ass PCT, be my guest, it's your body. Get blood work done so we can see results if you do go that route.

 

[bioman]

I'll be running nolva with MetaCort + 3grams 7 keto, next week after a really long suppressive cycle. I'll post my impressions and results of this combo when I'm done.

 

[rrgg]

Thanks. Apparently I was misinformed about 1-test.

If you want to run a half-ass PCT, be my guest, it's your body. Get blood work done so we can see results if you do go that route.

I'm not planning to half-ass anything. I was only inquiring about some mixed information I've seen on this product.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Well..... it's better then nothing, and I've read at other forums that people taking 100mg trans of 6oxo were getting results seen with 500-600mg oral. So, if you were to take it for pct, I'd say it's a better option than the capsules.