Unanswered Side effects and health problems on pct - clomid? Iron deficiency?

[Matthersby]

Just so that there is no confusion, as i said that energy is improving and yet i said i feel like collapsing,

i do not feel symptoms of low test. I have motivation and drive to do things, libido is fine too. But i am panting after i walk for 20m and feel like collapsing every time i stand up.

hematocrit is 0.45
hemoglobin 153g/l

those numbers even though in the normal range, are actually lowest ever for me. Even before cycle, my hct was 0.477, hgb was 166 g/l.
Just putting this out there. I dunno...

You could jump on steroids today and be on for a year and would not need to donate for an entire year, if ever.
If you live in any kind of elevation, those numbers are low as hell.

 

[CroLifter]

You could jump on steroids today and be on for a year and would not need to donate for an entire year, if ever.
If you live in any kind of elevation, those numbers are low as hell.

We will see. They are going to test me for lyme disease so that needs to be ruled out.

All of the symptoms i have are listed as symptoms for Lyme disease.

As i said, tick bit me in july 2018.

All of this fun started with extreme fatigue only first. Then all the other stuff, palpitations, shortness of breath and chest pains etc started.

 

[danielvp]

So now the doc is suspecting i have Lyme disease since i have mentioned that i have been bitten by a tick in july 2018.

Interesting development, I honestly hope you don't have Lyme disease though, it is very difficult to get rid of.

I've been clear from Lyme for about 12 months now, feel free to PM me or ask any questions.

 

[CroLifter]

Interesting development, I honestly hope you don't have Lyme disease though, it is very difficult to get rid of.

I've been clear from Lyme for about 12 months now, feel free to PM me or ask any questions.

Honestly it is the best explanation so far.

I have muscle and bone pain all over my body.

In no way can that be attributed to either slight iron deficiency or 25mg of clomid per day.

Edit: ok damn, now i am hallucinating. Just saw a bird fly inside my room.


I am going to ask this once again lol. In your's guys opinion, is there a particular toxin that is usually found in gear that could overtime accumulate and cause all these symptoms?

 

[ChocolateClen]

Heavy metal poisoning can cause a lot of issues. I know mercury can cause vision issues, muscular issues and genera fatigue, lead can cause memory loss and a bunch of brain issues. Arsenic generally causes heart related issues if I remember correctly. It would be rare though. I haven’t heard of much gear being contaminated with heavy metals, probably more likely to have other **** in it than metals but I don’t know for sure

 

[CroLifter]

Heavy metal poisoning can cause a lot of issues. I know mercury can cause vision issues, muscular issues and genera fatigue, lead can cause memory loss and a bunch of brain issues. Arsenic generally causes heart related issues if I remember correctly. It would be rare though. I haven’t heard of much gear being contaminated with heavy metals, probably more likely to have other **** in it than metals but I don’t know for sure

Yeah but my doc said i would need to be exposed for much longer to get this.
I went through 7 grams of test E.

 

[DieselJD]

So now the doc is suspecting i have Lyme disease since i have mentioned that i have been bitten by a tick in july 2018.

This sounds good. I had lyme disease too. Not any of the symtoms you mentioned (but i know there are like 150+ for lyme). All I had was a huge infection in my knee and no fever until I was in the hospital. I might have had night sweats but it was summer so hard to tell. Doc said i had probably had it for over a year before anything turned up. I consider myself lucky

 

[CroLifter]

so this is interesting. But lets rule out lyme's diseases first.

i know people who have palpitations withdrawing from benzos.

 

[Nac]

Man are you typically this obsessive?

I dont want to sound patronising, I deal with arrythmia myself. So I understand you want answers and resolution. But holy fuk cant you see how it seems (at least) that you are focusing all your mind on this, and that is not good? I dunno, maybe when youre not posting here you are doing other sh1t that gives you a mental break but dude you gonna go cray cray

 

[CroLifter]

Man are you typically this obsessive?

I dont want to sound patronising, I deal with arrythmia myself. So I understand you want answers and resolution. But holy fuk cant you see how it seems (at least) that you are focusing all your mind on this, and that is not good? I dunno, maybe when youre not posting here you are doing other sh1t that gives you a mental break but dude you gonna go cray cray

"A healthy man has 1000 wishes. An ill man has only one."

i think that is enough for this thread as we arent going to accurately diagnose an illness like this.

and yes, i have full blown ocd.

and everyone woukd be in distress if their heart went out of the rythm everytime they stand up and yet doctors have no explanation for it.

 

[trumac]

"A healthy man has 1000 wishes. An ill man has only one."

i think that is enough for this thread as we arent going to accurately diagnose an illness like this.

and yes, i have full blown ocd.

and everyone woukd be in distress if their heart went out of the rythm everytime they stand up and yet doctors have no explanation for it.

Which could easily be explained by the anxiety you obviously feel.

 

[Matthersby]

Man are you typically this obsessive?

I dont want to sound patronising, I deal with arrythmia myself. So I understand you want answers and resolution. But holy fuk cant you see how it seems (at least) that you are focusing all your mind on this, and that is not good? I dunno, maybe when youre not posting here you are doing other sh1t that gives you a mental break but dude you gonna go cray cray

I like Cro. In a way, the less rational side of me is just like him, but the confident and reckless side always wins. I feel his pain, but I’ve been trying to tell him thread after thread if he was dying, it would have shown up on labs somewhere so far. There’s not much a full spectrum CMP and cardiac workup can’t find. And I have yet to hear of one guy getting heavy metal poisoning from gear even though there’s warnings about it.
Maybe this makes it worse or maybe we are reassuring him and that’s a good thing.

 

[chem.jr.]

We will see. They are going to test me for lyme disease so that needs to be ruled out.

All of the symptoms i have are listed as symptoms for Lyme disease.

As i said, tick bit me in july 2018.

All of this fun started with extreme fatigue only first. Then all the other stuff, palpitations, shortness of breath and chest pains etc started.

If you truly have Lyme disease I will give you a rim job

 

[trumac]

If you truly have Lyme disease I will give you a rim job

Brb have to go get bitten by a tick

 

[Matthersby]

If you truly have Lyme disease I will give you a rim job

Make that 2 rim jobs.
Plus I’ll stroke the shaft meanwhile.

 

[Mathb33]

If you truly have Lyme disease I will give you a rim job

We can team up

 

[ItalOne]

I am all over the doc's office. And they seem to be at a loss.
They decided to test my ferritin and liver enzymes again, but in about 10 days.

I get no emotional sides from clomid, which is interesting.

You cannot deny that heavy metal contamination is not a possibility.

Do you wear gloves when you jerk off?

 

[trumac]

Do you wear gloves when you jerk off?

I wear gloves when I jerk him off

 

[ItalOne]

I wear gloves when I jerk him off

Yeah I don’t blame you, he’s Canadian!, Yuck! JK

 

[Mathb33]

Listen bruh

 

[Matthersby]

Don’t make him mad, he’s very angry while also very friendly and polite.

 

[CroLifter]

As the time passes i am more and more certain that my rqpidly declining hemoglobin is the culprit for the way how i feel.

I nearly collapsed at the store today.

Lets go o by the numbers.
Hb of 163 on august 3rd
Hb of 153 on august 23rd.

ok so this is a declining trend.

153 is the lowest number ever, even precyvle hb was 166.

Started supplementing iron on september 4th.

So logically my hb should be even lower. In the 140s perhaps (just before i started supplementing with iron).

Way lower than it has ever been.

And last time, in july, when i felt like this, i recovered in about 10 days (feeling fine again).
But i was cruising on test. Now i have lowish test hmmm.

Maybe that is why i am not recovering in spite of iron supplementation which previously helped?

Maybe the body doesnt have the stimulus to produce rbc which was there while cruising on test? Maybe...

All kinds of questions.

 

[CroLifter]

I like Cro. In a way, the less rational side of me is just like him, but the confident and reckless side always wins.

I feel exactly the same way. I too have both anxious and confident side.

And of course now due to the lowish test snd clomid that anxious side is winning.

Btw this morning woke up and started tearing up, without even being sad. Maaaaaan fuuuuuk serms.

but it is a part of the game.

 

[Matthersby]

As the time passes i am more and more certain that my rqpidly declining hemoglobin is the culprit for the way how i feel.

I nearly collapsed at the store today.

Lets go o by the numbers.
Hb of 163 on august 3rd
Hb of 153 on august 23rd.

ok so this is a declining trend.

153 is the lowest number ever, even precyvle hb was 166.

Started supplementing iron on september 4th.

So logically my hb should be even lower. In the 140s perhaps (just before i started supplementing with iron).

Way lower than it has ever been.

And last time, in july, when i felt like this, i recovered in about 10 days (feeling fine again).
But i was cruising on test. Now i have lowish test hmmm.

Maybe that is why i am not recovering in spite of iron supplementation which previously helped?

Maybe the body doesnt have the stimulus to produce rbc which was there while cruising on test? Maybe...

All kinds of questions.

“Results.

The 7%–10% increase in hemoglobin and hematocrit, respectively, with testosterone administration was associated with significantly increased erythropoietin (EPO) levels and decreased ferritin and hepcidin levels at 1 and 3 months. At 6 months, EPO and hepcidin levels returned toward baseline in spite of continued testosterone administration, but EPO levels remained nonsuppressed even though elevated hemoglobin and hematocrit higher than at baseline, suggesting a new set point. Consistent with increased iron utilization, soluble transferrin receptor (sTR) levels and ratio of sTR/log ferritin increased significantly in testosterone-treated men. Hormonal and hematologic responses were similar in anemic participants. The majority of testosterone-treated anemic participants increased their hemoglobin into normal range.”

Testosterone Induces Erythrocytosis via Increased Erythropoietin and Suppressed Hepcidin: Evidence for a New Erythropoietin/Hemoglobin Set Point

The mechanisms by which testosterone increases hemoglobin and hematocrit remain unclear.We assessed the hormonal and hematologic responses to testosterone administration in a clinical trial in which older men with mobility limitation were randomized to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[CroLifter]

“Results.

The 7%–10% increase in hemoglobin and hematocrit, respectively, with testosterone administration was associated with significantly increased erythropoietin (EPO) levels and decreased ferritin and hepcidin levels at 1 and 3 months. At 6 months, EPO and hepcidin levels returned toward baseline in spite of continued testosterone administration, but EPO levels remained nonsuppressed even though elevated hemoglobin and hematocrit higher than at baseline, suggesting a new set point. Consistent with increased iron utilization, soluble transferrin receptor (sTR) levels and ratio of sTR/log ferritin increased significantly in testosterone-treated men. Hormonal and hematologic responses were similar in anemic participants. The majority of testosterone-treated anemic participants increased their hemoglobin into normal range.”

Testosterone Induces Erythrocytosis via Increased Erythropoietin and Suppressed Hepcidin: Evidence for a New Erythropoietin/Hemoglobin Set Point

The mechanisms by which testosterone increases hemoglobin and hematocrit remain unclear.We assessed the hormonal and hematologic responses to testosterone administration in a clinical trial in which older men with mobility limitation were randomized to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Well that is commong knowledge, erythrocytosis induced by testosterone.

i was ironic at my own stupidity, not being able to figure out how on earth i was able to recover earlier but not now.

Now it is going to take a lot longer as that stimulus for erythrocytosis is missing.

Anecdotally, i know of plenty women who couldnt recover their iron levels despite supplementation. However i dont know any male who couldnt.

Of course menstruation is the biggest factor here but perhaps androgen status also play a big role.

 

[ChocolateClen]

Maybe you’re having periods and you don’t know it and that’s why your iron is apparently so low

 

[trumac]

Maybe you’re having periods and you don’t know it and that’s why your iron is apparently so low

It is 2019 you never know. What pronouns do you use? They/them?

 

[Beau]

Man are you typically this obsessive?

OP you are driving yourself insane.

Remember, you are never alone with a schizophrenic.

 

[CroLifter]

On wednesday i have a scheduled cardiological examination.

Unfortunately i feel this time it might be something serious, just that gut feeling, no anxiety or panic, just subconscious hunch.

These symptoms have been going on for a long time and they are getting worse and worse.



Damn am i going to be pissed if one cycle gave me ischemia or something like that.

 

[Beau]

On wednesday i have a scheduled cardiological examination.

Unfortunately i feel this time it might be something serious, just that gut feeling, no anxiety or panic, just subconscious hunch.

These symptoms have been going on for a long time and they are getting worse and worse.



Damn am i going to be pissed if one cycle gave me ischemia or something like that.

Stop thinking between now and then.

Take up an unrelated hobby - like drinking bourbon.

 

[trumac]

Stop thinking between now and then.

Take up an unrelated hobby - like drinking bourbon.

I think hallucinogens would treat him well

 

[CroLifter]

if everything is ok with the heart i am going to eat my own hat that i put over my balding head.

 

[CroLifter]

So my hemoglobin is 175 g/l (up from 153 g/l in 3 weeks!) and i am short of breath.

rbc count 6.02 x 10^(12) ----> to me this seems way too high and i am not on test!

PLEASE does anyone have any rarional explanation?
I have terrible tinnitus (buzzing in the ears) and getting dizzy while walking. Those are symptoms of anemia but i am the exact opposite!

Again, no explanation from the docs for my symptoms. They only said that my testosterone use caused me mental issues (as if i am somehow summoning those arrhytmias into existence).

Testing ferritin tomorrow.

Also, ECG noted "non specific ventricular conduction delay". Having an appointment with a cardiologist to discuss thta tomorrow. Maybe even do another heart ultrasound.

something is fukking me up. Either it is the clomid (residual), or lyme's or...

i dont know. And nobody knows!

 

[trumac]

So my hemoglobin is 175 g/l (up from 153 g/l in 3 weeks!) and i am short of breath.

rbc count 6.02 x 10^(12) ----> to me this seems way too high and i am not on test!

PLEASE does anyone have any rarional explanation?
I have terrible tinnitus (buzzing in the ears) and getting dizzy while walking. Those are symptoms of anemia but i am the exact opposite!

Again, no explanation from the docs for my symptoms. They only said that my testosterone use caused me mental issues (as if i am somehow summoning those arrhytmias into existence).

Testing ferritin tomorrow.

Also, ECG noted "non specific ventricular conduction delay". Having an appointment with a cardiologist to discuss thta tomorrow. Maybe even do another heart ultrasound.

something is fukking me up. Either it is the clomid (residual), or lyme's or...

i dont know. And nobody knows!

I really doubt anyone here will have a better idea than the doctors that are treating you

 

[CroLifter]

Hemoglobin is responsible for transport of oxygen...

i have too much of it and yet i am short of breath

there is one thing that worries me, and that is why i need the second lab tomorrow.
Even when my usual lab showed hemoglobin of 176 g/l this one (where today it showed 174) would show like 165, so roughly 8-10 points lower (which i could never explain).

so either this was an error today and my hb is a lot lower or tomorrow's lab will show hemoglobin in 180's...mark my words

this would be insane as i am off test for 4 weeks now.

We will see.

 

[Nac]

*Paging Dr House, Dr House to the diagnostics room please*

 

[Beau]

there is not one single thing that does not worry me,

Corrected

 

[Matthersby]

*Paging Dr House, Dr House to the diagnostics room please*

That’s who could fix this.
“It’s a Mediterranean Cytotxic Earwig”

 

[CroLifter]

That’s who could fix this.
“It’s a Mediterranean Cytotxic Earwig”

Btw you said i could jump on gear and not worry about hemoglobin for a year.
Lol..
You dont know what my bone marrow is capable of

btw they are sending me to test for hemochromatosis now (ferritin)

i mean, ok...
I remember being said i am iron deficient and that i was going to turn anemic
Inb4 hemoglobin 174 g/l

 

[Matthersby]

Btw you said i could jump on gear and not worry about hemoglobin for a year.
Lol..
You dont know what my bone marrow is capable of

What is your hemoglobin?

 

[CroLifter]

What is your hemoglobin?

174 g/l today
rbc count 6.02 x 10^(12)

I have been off everything for 4 weeks, and previously ran in the 400s (ng/dl test levels).
It must be the iron supppementation.

 

[Matthersby]

13.5-17.5 grams per deciliter.
Dude you are in the NORMAL RANGE.

 

[CroLifter]

13.5-17.5 grams per deciliter.
Dude you are in the NORMAL RANGE.

Ths lab always showed lower results.

I will post tomorrow's results they will be more accurate.

 

[CroLifter]

So hemoglobin shot up from 156 to 174g/l in 3 weeks.

i was not on test during this period. So, what could cause this rise? Supplemmenting iron? Not sure if it could make such a difference.

Well i have been and am feeling out of breath all the time. So obvioulsy hypoxia is driving my hemoglobin through the roof.
Heart problems, lung problems or poisoning could cause this.

 

[Nac]

Im gonna miss this sh1t when they cure you

 

[Beau]

Im gonna miss this sh1t when they have to call 911

Hey, knock that off - you are going to scare him

 

[CroLifter]

My LVEF is up from 54 to 64% since the end of cycle in june.

 

[Beau]

My LVEF is up from 54 to 64% since the end of cycle in june.

A normal left ventricular ejection fraction (LVEF) ranges from 55% to 70%.

 

[CroLifter]

A normal left ventricular ejection fraction (LVEF) ranges from 55% to 70%.

Correct
But 10% jump is significant imho.

 

[Nac]

Correct
But 10% jump is significant imho.

It was actually a 20% increase.