Rep range for Max Hypertrophy

What will provide the best hypertrophy?

  • I only do 8-12 Reps

    Votes: 114 35.4%
  • I only do 3-5 Reps

    Votes: 38 11.8%
  • I only do 12-15 Reps

    Votes: 18 5.6%
  • I do 6-12 Reps most of the time and sometimes 3-5, sometimes do 12-15.

    Votes: 152 47.2%

  • Total voters
    322
Doug8796

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I used to be one of the "ego lifters" but I dont care anymore i've started lifting 6-12 reps and I have experienced much better gains than before when i used to do 5-8 Here is a poll what do you guys think?
 
Rodja

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TUT is more important than rep range
 
Rodja

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TUT=Time Under Tension

By focusing on the eccentric portion of the lift, more tension is placed on the muscle, which increases the amount of microtrauma to the muscle.
 
OCCFan023

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Fully agree with Rodja. I started focusing on a TUT routine and experienced huge results. Personally I like incorporating TUT principles and mixing it up with more "athletic" type training to both keep the body guessing (more growth aand progression) and incorporate it with a lot of real life things.
 
Rodja

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Fully agree with Rodja. I started focusing on a TUT routine and experienced huge results. Personally I like incorporating TUT principles and mixing it up with more "athletic" type training to both keep the body guessing (more growth aand progression) and incorporate it with a lot of real life things.
It also improves your technique throughout the lift. You can't have good TUT with ****ty form.
 

Bunting

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I stick to 4-6 reps. I used to do 8-10 reps like you are talking about and made gains but very very slowly.
I started the Max 0T program and I put on 15 lbs and added alot of weight to my lifts in about 12 weeks.
and when I say 4-6 reps I mean that you are overloading your muscles by using a weight that is light enough to do atleast 4 reps but heavy enough that you CAN NOT do more than 6 reps.
Even if you are cutting you should still be lifting the same way. It's your deit that gets adjusted.
This is Max OT in a nutshell:
4-6 reps
2-3 minutes rest in between
6-9 heavy sets per muscle group
1-2 muscle groups trained a day
5-7 days rest between training a certain muscle part
8-9 weeks of training and then you take a week off
30-45 minute workouts. The idea is short but intense vs. long and drawn out.

alot of this goes against what you see most people doing in the gym...with supersetting and burnout sets etc.
But for a hardgainer like myself I found this program to be just what the doctor ordered.
and as for "ego lifters." I'm not really sure what that means. Sure there are guys who like to do low reps simply because they value the weight they can lift more than the shaping of their physique but that doesn't mean that everyone that sticks to this rep range is doing this so that they can pump their chest at how much weight they can put up.
I lift this way simply because I've found that for my body type it is the most efficient and productive way to slap on muscle mass.
Like my friend who's an absolute monster and who basically got me into "truly lifting" likes to say: "The weight you can put up is just a number. Sure it can tell you that you are making gains and you need to be increasing the weight you do periodically in order to make gains. But when it comes down to it, would you rather be the guy who can bench 400 lbs. or the guy who looks like he can bench 400 lbs.?"
 
Powerhouse 48

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well said, but TUT is something you have to vary, and relenquish in cycles as it is hell on your joints, and can stagnate fast twitch muscle fiber
 
Rodja

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I stick to 4-6 reps. I used to do 8-10 reps like you are talking about and made gains but very very slowly.
I started the Max 0T program and I put on 15 lbs and added alot of weight to my lifts in about 12 weeks.
and when I say 4-6 reps I mean that you are overloading your muscles by using a weight that is light enough to do atleast 4 reps but heavy enough that you CAN NOT do more than 6 reps.
Even if you are cutting you should still be lifting the same way. It's your deit that gets adjusted.
This is Max OT in a nutshell:
4-6 reps
2-3 minutes rest in between
6-9 heavy sets per muscle group
1-2 muscle groups trained a day
5-7 days rest between training a certain muscle part
8-9 weeks of training and then you take a week off
30-45 minute workouts. The idea is short but intense vs. long and drawn out.

alot of this goes against what you see most people doing in the gym...with supersetting and burnout sets etc.
But for a hardgainer like myself I found this program to be just what the doctor ordered.
and as for "ego lifters." I'm not really sure what that means. Sure there are guys who like to do low reps simply because they value the weight they can lift more than the shaping of their physique but that doesn't mean that everyone that sticks to this rep range is doing this so that they can pump their chest at how much weight they can put up.
I lift this way simply because I've found that for my body type it is the most efficient and productive weigh to slap on muscle mass.
Like my friend who's an absolute monster and who basically got me into "truly lifting" likes to say: "The weight you can put up is just a number. Sure it can tell you that you are making gains and you need to be increasing the weight you do periodically in order to make gains. But when it comes down to it, would you rather be the guy who can bench 400 lbs. or the guy who looks like he can bench 400 lbs.?"
I wouldn't start Max-OT during a cut, though. I am a big fan of the program, but it is not the type of lifting that you will want to begin while in a kcal deficit.
 

Bunting

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and also. It really all depends on your body type and what works for you. I have friends that just look at a pair of dumbells and they pack on muscle. They simply have belly muscle and great genetics. It doesn't really matter a whole lot how they lift they will still make gains. So it's really pointless for me to listen to their pointers and programs for lifting because their methods usually never work for a hard gainer like myself.
 

Bunting

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I wouldn't start Max-OT during a cut, though. I am a big fan of the program, but it is not the type of lifting that you will want to begin while in a kcal deficit.
really? I haven't really tried it on a cut yet. But in the program it clearly emphasizes that you should keep lifting heavy and "overloading" your muscles in order to keep strength and muscle mass while losing as much fat as possible.
Like I said I haven't tried it on a cut yet but I intend to. I've tried cutting before and doing the whole high rep thing and usually I just lose a ton of muscle along with the fat. So will see what happens.
 
Rodja

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really? I haven't really tried it on a cut yet. But in the program it clearly emphasizes that you should keep lifting heavy and "overloading" your muscles in order to keep strength and muscle mass while losing as much fat as possible.
Like I said I haven't tried it on a cut yet but I intend to. I've tried cutting before and doing the whole high rep thing and usually I just lose a ton of muscle along with the fat. So will see what happens.
I agree that your training should not be altered too much while cutting, but you shouldn't try a physically and mentally demanding routine while cutting.
 

Bunting

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I agree that your training should not be altered too much while cutting, but you shouldn't try a physically and mentally demanding routine while cutting.
So how would you change the program when cutting?
 
OCCFan023

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really? I haven't really tried it on a cut yet. But in the program it clearly emphasizes that you should keep lifting heavy and "overloading" your muscles in order to keep strength and muscle mass while losing as much fat as possible.
Like I said I haven't tried it on a cut yet but I intend to. I've tried cutting before and doing the whole high rep thing and usually I just lose a ton of muscle along with the fat. So will see what happens.
A routine like 5x5 I feel like unless your mega dosing BCAAs or have a recovery agent/cortisol blocker in your arsenal that your body would really wear out/feel the effects of over training very quickly in a cal deficit. Cortisol would be in the back of my mind every day if I were to attempt something like that.
 
Rodja

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So how would you change the program when cutting?
I wouldn't change it too much, but I would try it for 8 weeks or so while at maintenance or a slight kcal excess. After that, I would take a week and the begin again, but at a 10% kcal deficit. The main thing I would do is increase the rep range to 4-8 per set.
 

Bunting

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A routine like 5x5 I feel like unless your mega dosing BCAAs or have a recovery agent/cortisol blocker in your arsenal that your body would really wear out/feel the effects of over training very quickly in a cal deficit. Cortisol would be in the back of my mind every day if I were to attempt something like that.
yeah but Max OT is not really 5 by 5. 5x5 would mean you are doing 5 sets of each exercise. That's not Max OT.
for example here's a chest day max ot style:
3 x 4-6 BB bench press
2 x 4-6 BB Incline Press
1 x 4-6 Weighted Dips

Yep. That's it. That's all you do. But you come at those 6 sets with a lot of intensity and Mental focus. And I'm not saying you guys are wrong but I feel that I could probably keep the same intensity that I have during a bulk when I am 150-200 calories below maintenance.
I was a collegiate wrestler and trust me 150 calories below maintenance is not "Cutting." to me that would still feel like bulking.
I was going through 2 even 3 workouts a day of insanely high intensity on less than 1500 calories a day.
The idea is to keep as much muscle mass and strength as you can and I just don't see myself doing so by going into the gym and lifting light and high reps. But again that's just my body.
 

Bunting

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I wouldn't change it too much, but I would try it for 8 weeks or so while at maintenance or a slight kcal excess. After that, I would take a week and the begin again, but at a 10% kcal deficit. The main thing I would do is increase the rep range to 4-8 per set.
I don't know that I would be dropping my cals 10 percent right away. I'd probably be starting out at maintenance level for 4 weeks or so and get a solid recomp and then start slowly lowering the calories. I agree that immediatley dropping my cals from 3800( bulking) to 3420( -10 percent) would be pretty drastic to keep that kind of lifting program going.
Max OT talks about lowering your cals 100-200 calories below maintenance.
 

Schism

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I don't know about you guys, but I vary my program every 2 months or so to keep the body from adapting. It's kind of strange but I've noticed the biggest gains I've made are using heavy weight 75-85% for 6-8reps or going lighter 65-75% using 12-15reps. Why that is I'm not sure, maybe it's the jump between the two. The 8-10 range has never given me good results except for when I first started lifting.
I think that the number of sets performed is also key so it's hard to say what the best rep range is for me without taking that into consideration.
 
CryingEmo

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I wouldn't start Max-OT during a cut, though. I am a big fan of the program, but it is not the type of lifting that you will want to begin while in a kcal deficit.
What's a good routine during a cut to hold on to muscle? More of a dogcrapp routine? I'd assume you have to keep the weights heavy.
 
Neil5585

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It also depends on your lifting experience and fiber makeup of those particular muscles.

For example in most people hamstrings are fast twitch so there's not much point in going over 8 reps for them. However quads can get great results in a wide rep range from quite low all the way up to 100 rep sets on the leg press. My bench press and the muscles involved made a huge jump when I started using 10x3 for them. My quads I always did low reps and they started to grow when I started bicycling and doing high rep sets. Some muscles like lats, quads, delts, and calves often like a big variety in rep ranges.

And also, the more advanced the lifter, usually the less reps he needs compared to before.
 
Neil5585

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What's a good routine during a cut to hold on to muscle? More of a dogcrapp routine? I'd assume you have to keep the weights heavy.
Too much microtrauma for restricted calories. I'd lift in rep ranges that build muscle for you, focus on increasing strength, and don't do very slow negatives.
 

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Too much microtrauma for restricted calories. I'd lift in rep ranges that build muscle for you, focus on increasing strength, and don't do very slow negatives.
Right on. That's what I'm saying. Whatever method of training works best for you in building muscle should be the method of training you employ in order to maintain muslce when cutting.
 
VolcomX311

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I voted for the wrong option. I should take my time to read the instructions
 

akkxn

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strong first post

I didn't vote simply because the answer is none.

The best rep range is the one you're not doing.

Your body will respond well to inconsistent training. I don't mean skipping 2 workouts in a row for no reason. I mean, lifting with different intensity, rep ranges and so on. What you shouldn't change too much is the total number of reps. 24-50 total reps per muscle group is the hypertrophy zone.

You have all probably changed your routine and found that your gains from doing this routine were much better than before. Why is this? Because your body has something completely different it needs to adapt to.

I won't go into detail here because if you really want to know about this you'll research it yourselves. However, I challenge you all to switch up your routine dramatically and see what happens. For example: switch from 3x8 to 10x3.
 
OCCFan023

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I didn't vote simply because the answer is none.

The best rep range is the one you're not doing.

Your body will respond well to inconsistent training. I don't mean skipping 2 workouts in a row for no reason. I mean, lifting with different intensity, rep ranges and so on. What you shouldn't change too much is the total number of reps. 24-50 total reps per muscle group is the hypertrophy zone.

You have all probably changed your routine and found that your gains from doing this routine were much better than before. Why is this? Because your body has something completely different it needs to adapt to.

I won't go into detail here because if you really want to know about this you'll research it yourselves. However, I challenge you all to switch up your routine dramatically and see what happens. For example: switch from 3x8 to 10x3.
Isn't that essentially option 3? Also I think a lot of people have dabbled with muscle confusion.
 

amadorian

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well said, but TUT is something you have to vary, and relenquish in cycles as it is hell on your joints, and can stagnate fast twitch muscle fiber

Agreed I wish this was discussed more, I used TUT for some time and I always felt slow and sluggish and my workouts were very low intesity. Your breathing is off and you don't get your heart rate up because it is such a slow movement. However this did bring out the sides of my Triceps and and helped my shoulders to round a little more, but I didn't feel good leaving the gym after a workout like this.
 

Bunting

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I didn't vote simply because the answer is none.

The best rep range is the one you're not doing.

Your body will respond well to inconsistent training. I don't mean skipping 2 workouts in a row for no reason. I mean, lifting with different intensity, rep ranges and so on. What you shouldn't change too much is the total number of reps. 24-50 total reps per muscle group is the hypertrophy zone.

You have all probably changed your routine and found that your gains from doing this routine were much better than before. Why is this? Because your body has something completely different it needs to adapt to.
If getting bigger was as simple as changing up your routine often don't you think there would be less argument about this.
the reason there is such a discrepancy between some people saying less reps and other saying more is three fold:
1) everyone's body responds differently. Certian routines work for person A and fail miserabley for person B. A routine that works for a mesomorth may not work for an ectomorph. I think we can all agree on that much.
2)like you said people think program B works great simply because it is a change from program A and they made gains because of the change.
3) Diet. When working out on routine A the person may be following a much better diet with increased calories but by the time they move to workout routine B they have not increased there calories in a while and thus are not making gains anymore. Diet really has more to do with gains than the program if you ask me.

As for saying that the best rep range is the range you are not doing may be true in the short term. But I'm a believer that there is a certain rep range that works best overall for most people for the most extended periods of time.
As for creating variety you can achieve this by other means than simply changing your rep schemes. How about different movements/exercises. Dumbells instead of barbells etc.
For me..if you are trying to add mass the most efficient and best place to start is in the 4-6 rep range. I might change it up once and a while but for the most part for me that's the range where I've far and away experienced the quickest and greatest gains.
 

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what about HST and its progressive load, the program is set specifically for hypertrophy.
 
pantera101

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I don't know about you guys, but I vary my program every 2 months or so to keep the body from adapting. It's kind of strange but I've noticed the biggest gains I've made are using heavy weight 75-85% for 6-8reps or going lighter 65-75% using 12-15reps. Why that is I'm not sure, maybe it's the jump between the two. The 8-10 range has never given me good results except for when I first started lifting.
I think that the number of sets performed is also key so it's hard to say what the best rep range is for me without taking that into consideration.
Change is great.As for the best range,Doug,imo their all best.2 reps hit a different muscle fiber then 20 reps.Lower reps increase strength more,and higher reps produce better pumps.While a happy medium will do both.So i vote for 1-20 for upper and 1-50 possibly 100(from what i've seen) for legs.
 

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I think that there is a lot of good information here but the key is "your body type" certian people respond to different rep ranges better than others. Your job is to know your body and what makes you grow the best. But there is always the fact that the human body would just like to stay where it is and you have to force it to make a change, whether it is a change in strength or size. For most people trying to gain size they are going to train at a higher workload or volume. There are a lot of schools of thought that say volume equals size. But like I said previously, you have to find what works best for your body. The TUT or super slow reps, has been proven to pack on the muscle, it takes a ton of mental focus to do this. If you want to find out more about this type of training look for the book "Bigger" by Ellington Darden
 

krazy

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Call me crazy but Im experimenting (with good results) with 1 set to failure 10-15 reps
 
pantera101

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Theirs a somewhat famous guy who suggest something like that.
 

remeizo

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Dorian Yates used to do one amazingly heavy set to failure in his workouts in the last few years that he won the Mr. Olympia.
 
pantera101

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Their was this guy saying that all you need is one set,and most do too much.What realy made sence though,was for beginners to start with one set,and if they don't respond with time,up it to two.He was saying most start off with too much,and from there you will only begin to do more.Besides,if one set is enough why do 10-15?Was his point.
I don't remember the guys name.I do remember them asking about religion,and he said well it's impossible for their to be a god.I believe he's dead now,so if their is a god,i'll see him in hell and we can "catch up" :lol:
 

poacher

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The right rep range is doing just enough to tear the muscle down to a point where the can reheal and grow in time for the next workout. It is a very elusive , ever changing number.
 
pantera101

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How many of you hate being subscribed to threads with a votting pole on them as much as I do?They should fix it to where you only get notified when someone actually makes a post and not a vote.I'm so tired of having to click it then exit it so it wont be on my ucer cp.I think about closing my subscription to it,but I just know that when I do something important will come up and I'll miss it......:sad: Stuck between a rock and a hard place!
 
sreed11

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Agreed I wish this was discussed more, I used TUT for some time and I always felt slow and sluggish and my workouts were very low intesity. Your breathing is off and you don't get your heart rate up because it is such a slow movement. However this did bring out the sides of my Triceps and and helped my shoulders to round a little more, but I didn't feel good leaving the gym after a workout like this.
I'm doing 4/2/2 and it kills. Going for 15 reps as i'm back to phase 1 of OPT. I have no idea how they are low intensity for you, these seem very hard and my heart rate gets up much quicker this way. I'm actually quite confused how this is easier for you than whatever other tempo you are using seeing as the eccentric part of a movement is the hardest on the muscle.
 
pantera101

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People get confused on what intensity is.I hear some say that they're going to shorten breaks to keep intensity up.You can rest 10 seconds between sets and have low intensity within a set.You can rest 10 minutes and and have high intensity within a set.Watch Branch warren train and you will realise what intensity is.
 
CryingEmo

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People get confused on what intensity is.I hear some say that they're going to shorten breaks to keep intensity up.You can rest 10 seconds between sets and have low intensity within a set.You can rest 10 minutes and and have high intensity within a set.Watch Branch warren train and you will realise what intensity is.

Like this?


 
pantera101

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Such a good dvd!I'm going to have to watch it in the morning before the gym.If I watch it now I will be so pumped and will have trouble sleeping.
 
CryingEmo

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Such a good dvd!I'm goping to have to watch it in the morning before the gym.If I watch it now I will be so pumped and will have trouble sleeping.

You should take 25 mg ephedrine/ 200 mg caffiene / 50 mg geranamine, watch that video a few times with pantera blasting loudly as possible, then... go to sleep.

Try it. :clap2:
 
Bulldawg07

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I stick to 4-6 reps. I used to do 8-10 reps like you are talking about and made gains but very very slowly.
I started the Max 0T program and I put on 15 lbs and added alot of weight to my lifts in about 12 weeks.
and when I say 4-6 reps I mean that you are overloading your muscles by using a weight that is light enough to do atleast 4 reps but heavy enough that you CAN NOT do more than 6 reps.
Even if you are cutting you should still be lifting the same way. It's your deit that gets adjusted.
This is Max OT in a nutshell:
4-6 reps
2-3 minutes rest in between
6-9 heavy sets per muscle group
1-2 muscle groups trained a day
5-7 days rest between training a certain muscle part
8-9 weeks of training and then you take a week off
30-45 minute workouts. The idea is short but intense vs. long and drawn out.

alot of this goes against what you see most people doing in the gym...with supersetting and burnout sets etc.
But for a hardgainer like myself I found this program to be just what the doctor ordered.
and as for "ego lifters." I'm not really sure what that means. Sure there are guys who like to do low reps simply because they value the weight they can lift more than the shaping of their physique but that doesn't mean that everyone that sticks to this rep range is doing this so that they can pump their chest at how much weight they can put up.
I lift this way simply because I've found that for my body type it is the most efficient and productive way to slap on muscle mass.
Like my friend who's an absolute monster and who basically got me into "truly lifting" likes to say: "The weight you can put up is just a number. Sure it can tell you that you are making gains and you need to be increasing the weight you do periodically in order to make gains. But when it comes down to it, would you rather be the guy who can bench 400 lbs. or the guy who looks like he can bench 400 lbs.?"

care to post or pm me your workout.
sounds beneficial
 
pantera101

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I like this saying,"if you want to look like you bench 400lbs.Then start benching 400 lbs!"
 
Teg

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I would like understand more about it really. Ive read and read and read the last 2yrs now of real serious lifting...

Im an EXTREME ecto and ive "hit the wall" per se, since i dont look any bigger and havnt gone up in lifts much?

Ive been wondering about this for awhile as well. Ive done 5x5, HST and my stuff which all have worked but still cant get over 170pds and weights aint going up! I personally got teh most gains outta my own throw together of DC/TUT style

Im thinking about trying DeFrancos style starting next week, since im running outta ideas???

Maybe i should start another thread for it???

Anywho, back on topic....... Max Hypertrophy
 
pantera101

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I would like understand more about it really. Ive read and read and read the last 2yrs now of real serious lifting...

Im an EXTREME ecto and ive "hit the wall" per se, since i dont look any bigger and havnt gone up in lifts much?

Ive been wondering about this for awhile as well. Ive done 5x5, HST and my stuff which all have worked but still cant get over 170pds and weights aint going up! I personally got teh most gains outta my own throw together of DC/TUT style

Im thinking about trying DeFrancos style starting next week, since im running outta ideas???

Maybe i should start another thread for it???

Anywho, back on topic....... Max Hypertrophy
You simply need to eat more my friend.I promise!
 
Teg

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You simply need to eat more my friend. I promise!
I wish it was that easy! Im tryin put away between 3-4k cals a day! Im not sure if i can eat more and good food aint cheap! Even have some Black Hole thanks to a friend of mine from BB.com which helps, but if i need to have more then that, i dun know if i can do it?

Plus it dont help that i have Crohns and Colitis and am one of most extreme!

Maybe i should start another thread?
 

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