Products Bloodwork

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ahh123 said:
Yeah I agree as well - scanned pic of bloodwork is more legitimate (OK somebody could also have it edited or photoshop-ed to show any number desired), while just posting numbers easier to doubt if numbers are real or just made up.

At the end is all about trust in member's posting his/her results and credibility of a member to post real results and not edited or made up.
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Yup, it's all smoke and mirrors. Anyone can say anything. That's the beauty of the internet.
Just now, there is a localized place for reps and supporters to pimp the hell out of their favorite stuff!

Wait....isn't that supposed to be in the company sub forum?
Dang...

Oh well, I'll stop filling this thread with nonsense...an wait for something related to look at
 
ahh123 said:
Yeah I agree as well - scanned pic of bloodwork is more legitimate (OK somebody could also have it edited or photoshop-ed to show any number desired), while just posting numbers easier to doubt if numbers are real or just made up.

At the end is all about trust in member's posting his/her results and credibility of a member to post real results and not edited or made up.

But I'm glad topic got a lift off in posting results.
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I hear ya man. I was planning on scanning the bloodwork, but decided against it for a couple personal reasons. But, listen they are either going to believe it or not. If I scan my bloods in then they would just say well this doesnt prove he was on the product he says. All I can say is I have been getting regular bloodwork (2-4 months apart) for the past 4 years. And for the doubters, I have no reason to lie about my numbers. In fact it would be very irresponsible of me to put other members at risk. I am trying to help the AM community in saying we finally have a legit otc ai. I wouldnt do this without having bloods to prove it. I would never go off just feel because well we all remember how that worked out for amiristane. I work in the Medical field and would never want to put another's health at risk especially with their hormone levels.
 
I think one of the Op's reasons for starting this thread was to move away from the rep wars to a more objective and balanced picture which bloodwork could provide.

It would be ideal if scanned bloodwork could be posted but if not no reason to flame another poster or for someone to post inflammatory statements such as where are the ... doubters now. I for one was hoping for something different to the tired old rep wars. I look forward to seeing more bloodwork and less inquistions when bloodwork is posted. We're adult we can tell when something looks suspicious and the bloodwork posted above is nothing to get overexcited about
 
Cjg said:
I want to see a arimistane blood test!!!!
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You really, really don't. ;)

I'll post all my bloods shortly and another round when I've got pre and post bloods for Letrone + Rebirth.

Currently have separate bloods for baseline (no products), Arimistane, and Formestane at 2 weeks and 3 months.
 
Sure feck it I'll post them now.

This is my baseline, wasn't taking anything except nightly ZMA at the time.

Testosterone: 13.5 nmol/L, range 8.6-29
Estradiol: 112 pmol/L, range 28-156
LH: 3.3 U/L, range 2-9
FSH: 1.9 U/L, range 2-12
Prolactin 214 mU/L, range 86-324

Pretty appalling baseline as you can see, hence my desire to fix it with some AI activity. So I took OG Erase Pro for eight weeks and got the following bloods at the end of the, during week 8:

Testosterone: 16.1 nmol/L, range 8.6-29
Estradiol: 424 pmol/L, range 28-156
LH: 4.8 U/L, range 2-9
FSH: 2.2 U/L, range 2-12
Prolactin 349 mU/L, range 86-324
Prolactin minus macroprolactin: 276 mU/L, range 63-245

Unmitigated disaster as you can see. I therefore stopped Arimistane at eight weeks, and took nothing further until early 2015.

In early 2015 when I heard Formestane was being banned I hoovered up the last Formestane to be sold by JW Supplements. Two bottles of Formeron, three bottles of TransFORM. Both dosed at 50mg per ml, but slight difference in that Formeron had 1.5 ml per pump while TransFORM had 2ml.

Code: 
				Pre Forma		1w Forma		2m Forma + 1m Prolactrone

Estradiol			104			54			77
Testosterone			12.5			13.98			13.9
SHGB				30.4			32			31.7
Prolactin			174			191			170
LH				3.5			N/A			2.6
FSH				2.2			N/A			2.1

My final set of bloods was done in the final week of my Formestane run, in July:

Estradiol: 80
Testosterone: 16.3
SHGB: 31.3
LH: 3.6
FSH: 2.5
Prolactin: 242

So essentially in summary, Formestane drops E2 and increases testosterone and gonadotropins, but beyond a certain dose it actually doesn't become any more effective than it was. Remember that the two higher E2 results were while I was taking a double dose of Formestane compared to the first result - this ties in with what Brundel has said previously about Formestane being limited both in how long it remains effective on a single run and how high you can dose it while continuing to see better results.

The Arimistane bloods could be a coincidence, but I've heard from several others who experiences massive increases in prolactin while on Arimistane so I'm inclined to advise people to give it a wide berth. This could be related to how my E2 wound up triple what it should have been, despite the allegedly anti aromatase activity of Arimistane. I'm sure it's possible that it was caused by something else, but given the number of blood tests I've had and the fact that E2 and Prolactin were only *ever* cited as being above the normal range was during my Arimistane run... My advice is avoid avoid avoid.

Prolactrone succeeded in bringing down my prolactin during the run, albeit not by as much as I'd been hoping. However, this could be related to the fact that I stopped taking ZMA around the time I was taking Prolactrone which could have depleted my levels of dopa decarboxylase too much (tricky business - you want enough of it in the brain but not enough outside it, and by stopping ZMA I would have dropped my vitamin B6 intake which would affect both the in and out of brain levels of dopa decarboxylase).

So saying, I might do another Prolactrone run at some stage while taking ZMA and see if that makes it more effective. Regardless, even just by dropping prolactin by 20 mU, my libido and motivation for life in general rocketed through the roof and I found myself popping awkward, random boners during lectures in a way that hadn't happened to me since I was around 14. ;)
 
conkertheking said:
Sure feck it I'll post them now.

This is my baseline, wasn't taking anything except nightly ZMA at the time.

Testosterone: 13.5 nmol/L, range 8.6-29
Estradiol: 112 pmol/L, range 28-156
LH: 3.3 U/L, range 2-9
FSH: 1.9 U/L, range 2-12
Prolactin 214 mU/L, range 86-324

Pretty appalling baseline as you can see, hence my desire to fix it with some AI activity. So I took OG Erase Pro for eight weeks and got the following bloods at the end of the, during week 8:

Testosterone: 16.1 nmol/L, range 8.6-29
Estradiol: 424 pmol/L, range 28-156
LH: 4.8 U/L, range 2-9
FSH: 2.2 U/L, range 2-12
Prolactin 349 mU/L, range 86-324
Prolactin minus macroprolactin: 276 mU/L, range 63-245

Unmitigated disaster as you can see. I therefore stopped Arimistane at eight weeks, and took nothing further until early 2015.

In early 2015 when I heard Formestane was being banned I hoovered up the last Formestane to be sold by JW Supplements. Two bottles of Formeron, three bottles of TransFORM. Both dosed at 50mg per ml, but slight difference in that Formeron had 1.5 ml per pump while TransFORM had 2ml.

Code: 
				Pre Forma		1w Forma		2m Forma + 1m Prolactrone

Estradiol			104			54			77
Testosterone			12.5			13.98			13.9
SHGB				30.4			32			31.7
Prolactin			174			191			170
LH				3.5			N/A			2.6
FSH				2.2			N/A			2.1

My final set of bloods was done in the final week of my Formestane run, in July:

Estradiol: 80
Testosterone: 16.3
SHGB: 31.3
LH: 3.6
FSH: 2.5
Prolactin: 242

So essentially in summary, Formestane drops E2 and increases testosterone and gonadotropins, but beyond a certain dose it actually doesn't become any more effective than it was. Remember that the two higher E2 results were while I was taking a double dose of Formestane compared to the first result - this ties in with what Brundel has said previously about Formestane being limited both in how long it remains effective on a single run and how high you can dose it while continuing to see better results.

The Arimistane bloods could be a coincidence, but I've heard from several others who experiences massive increases in prolactin while on Arimistane so I'm inclined to advise people to give it a wide berth. This could be related to how my E2 wound up triple what it should have been, despite the allegedly anti aromatase activity of Arimistane. I'm sure it's possible that it was caused by something else, but given the number of blood tests I've had and the fact that E2 and Prolactin were only *ever* cited as being above the normal range was during my Arimistane run... My advice is avoid avoid avoid.

Prolactrone succeeded in bringing down my prolactin during the run, albeit not by as much as I'd been hoping. However, this could be related to the fact that I stopped taking ZMA around the time I was taking Prolactrone which could have depleted my levels of dopa decarboxylase too much (tricky business - you want enough of it in the brain but not enough outside it, and by stopping ZMA I would have dropped my vitamin B6 intake which would affect both the in and out of brain levels of dopa decarboxylase).

So saying, I might do another Prolactrone run at some stage while taking ZMA and see if that makes it more effective. Regardless, even just by dropping prolactin by 20 mU, my libido and motivation for life in general rocketed through the roof and I found myself popping awkward, random boners during lectures in a way that hadn't happened to me since I was around 14. ;)
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Now this is fine example how members should post their blood work, what they were taking and commentary to try to explain how product(s) affected their hormone levels.

Admin - maybe time to make this topic sticky.
 
Subbed for reference
 
conkertheking said:
Sure feck it I'll post them now.

This is my baseline, wasn't taking anything except nightly ZMA at the time.

Testosterone: 13.5 nmol/L, range 8.6-29
Estradiol: 112 pmol/L, range 28-156
LH: 3.3 U/L, range 2-9
FSH: 1.9 U/L, range 2-12
Prolactin 214 mU/L, range 86-324

Pretty appalling baseline as you can see, hence my desire to fix it with some AI activity. So I took OG Erase Pro for eight weeks and got the following bloods at the end of the, during week 8:

Testosterone: 16.1 nmol/L, range 8.6-29
Estradiol: 424 pmol/L, range 28-156
LH: 4.8 U/L, range 2-9
FSH: 2.2 U/L, range 2-12
Prolactin 349 mU/L, range 86-324
Prolactin minus macroprolactin: 276 mU/L, range 63-245

Unmitigated disaster as you can see. I therefore stopped Arimistane at eight weeks, and took nothing further until early 2015.

In early 2015 when I heard Formestane was being banned I hoovered up the last Formestane to be sold by JW Supplements. Two bottles of Formeron, three bottles of TransFORM. Both dosed at 50mg per ml, but slight difference in that Formeron had 1.5 ml per pump while TransFORM had 2ml.

Code: 
				Pre Forma		1w Forma		2m Forma + 1m Prolactrone

Estradiol			104			54			77
Testosterone			12.5			13.98			13.9
SHGB				30.4			32			31.7
Prolactin			174			191			170
LH				3.5			N/A			2.6
FSH				2.2			N/A			2.1

My final set of bloods was done in the final week of my Formestane run, in July:

Estradiol: 80
Testosterone: 16.3
SHGB: 31.3
LH: 3.6
FSH: 2.5
Prolactin: 242

So essentially in summary, Formestane drops E2 and increases testosterone and gonadotropins, but beyond a certain dose it actually doesn't become any more effective than it was. Remember that the two higher E2 results were while I was taking a double dose of Formestane compared to the first result - this ties in with what Brundel has said previously about Formestane being limited both in how long it remains effective on a single run and how high you can dose it while continuing to see better results.

The Arimistane bloods could be a coincidence, but I've heard from several others who experiences massive increases in prolactin while on Arimistane so I'm inclined to advise people to give it a wide berth. This could be related to how my E2 wound up triple what it should have been, despite the allegedly anti aromatase activity of Arimistane. I'm sure it's possible that it was caused by something else, but given the number of blood tests I've had and the fact that E2 and Prolactin were only *ever* cited as being above the normal range was during my Arimistane run... My advice is avoid avoid avoid.

Prolactrone succeeded in bringing down my prolactin during the run, albeit not by as much as I'd been hoping. However, this could be related to the fact that I stopped taking ZMA around the time I was taking Prolactrone which could have depleted my levels of dopa decarboxylase too much (tricky business - you want enough of it in the brain but not enough outside it, and by stopping ZMA I would have dropped my vitamin B6 intake which would affect both the in and out of brain levels of dopa decarboxylase).

So saying, I might do another Prolactrone run at some stage while taking ZMA and see if that makes it more effective. Regardless, even just by dropping prolactin by 20 mU, my libido and motivation for life in general rocketed through the roof and I found myself popping awkward, random boners during lectures in a way that hadn't happened to me since I was around 14. ;)
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VERY detailed and informative. Thanks
 
Willtolift said:
I'd like to see 4-andro bloodwork...
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I will tell you that 1-andro tanks lipids HARD and into dangerous levels.

Of course those lipids do typically return to normal after cessation.
 
Subbed. My bottle of Letrone is almost empty and I just purchased the bloodwork, so results will be posted soon.
 
kboxer7 said:
I will tell you that 1-andro tanks lipids HARD and into dangerous levels.

Of course those lipids do typically return to normal after cessation.

Shutdown is also pretty apparent. You hear people talking about levels of suppression (regarding T), but suppressed is suppressed.
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Really more interested in evidence of how much 4-andro converts to test. I don't doubt the substances work. But it would be nice to have a rough guesstimate of the average conversion rate of these dhea non methylated type compounds.
 
Willtolift said:
Really more interested in evidence of how much 4-andro converts to test. I don't doubt the substances work. But it would be nice to have a rough guesstimate of the average conversion rate of these dhea non methylated type compounds.
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I'm interested too, using 4-AD sometimes as test base.
 
Willtolift said:
Really more interested in evidence of how much 4-and to converts to test. I don't doubt the substances work. But it would be nice to have a rough guesstimate of the average conversion rate of these dhea non methylated type compounds.
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Got it. There are a lot of factors (specific to the individual) that affect that conversion rate. Two large ones are age and the amount of aromatase enzyme.

I will say data supports that exogenous DHEA works MUCH better in older gents than younger. In the study below, supplementation of DHEA only affected testosterone/estrogen ratios for 2-5 hours and never exceeded a 6:1 ratio*. In contrast, a 47 year old male's supplementation of exogenous DHEA resulted in ratios well exceeding 6:1 starting on day one of supplementation**

Conversion to androstenedione in young males seems quite significant: In a study of 10 young men (23 ± 4 yr old), ingestion of 50 mg of DHEA increased serum androstenedione concentrations 150% within 60 min***

*Bosy TZ, Moore KA, Poklis A. The effect of oral dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on the urine testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio in human male volunteers. J Anal Toxicol 1998;22:455-459.

**Bowers LD. Oral dehydroepiandrosterone supplementation can increase the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio. Clin Chem 1999;45:295-297.

***Effect of oral DHEA on serum testosterone and adaptations to resistance training in young men.
Brown GA1, Vukovich MD, Sharp RL, Reifenrath TA, Parsons KA, King DS.
 
hairygrandpa said:
I'm interested too, using 4-AD sometimes as test base.
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4dhea doesn't work becuase its conversion to test(because its essentially non existent). It does convert to 4ad which has an anabolic ratio of 94:100
 
Not asking anyone one to do it but it would be nice to see bloods with Rebirth vs RC SERMS and Letrone(3-4 caps)vs RC AIs
 
rtmilburn said:
4dhea doesn't work becuase its conversion to test(because its essentially non existent). It does convert to 4ad which has an anabolic ratio of 94:100
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So you're saying 4-Dhea will not work as a test base or that it works through a different mechanism by conversion to 4AD?
 
I have bloods from when -epi first came out. It shows a slight improvement in lipids, C-reactive protein and LFTs. The LFTs may be none related, but its worth mentioning. The bloodwork is from three months on -epi. Not sure if anyone is interested if so let me know.
 
kboxer7 said:
Got it. There are a lot of factors (specific to the individual) that affect that conversion rate. Two large ones are age and the amount of aromatase enzyme.

I will say data supports that exogenous DHEA works MUCH better in older gents than younger. In the study below, supplementation of DHEA only affected testosterone/estrogen ratios for 2-5 hours and never exceeded a 6:1 ratio*. In contrast, a 47 year old male's supplementation of exogenous DHEA resulted in ratios well exceeding 6:1 starting on day one of supplementation**

Conversion to androstenedione in young males seems quite significant: In a study of 10 young men (23 ± 4 yr old), ingestion of 50 mg of DHEA increased serum androstenedione concentrations 150% within 60 min***

*Bosy TZ, Moore KA, Poklis A. The effect of oral dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on the urine testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio in human male volunteers. J Anal Toxicol 1998;22:455-459.

**Bowers LD. Oral dehydroepiandrosterone supplementation can increase the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio. Clin Chem 1999;45:295-297.

***Effect of oral DHEA on serum testosterone and adaptations to resistance training in young men.
Brown GA1, Vukovich MD, Sharp RL, Reifenrath TA, Parsons KA, King DS.
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I'm using 4-AD in stack with Trenavar/Epistane, to keep my joints from drying out. My thought is, that 4-AD converts to test and excess is aromatized to estrogen, giving me a somewhat "wet" compound for my joints. Is my thought process sound? I'm using also Dermacrine, does this interfere with the 4-AD? I'm 47 by the way.
 
Willtolift said:
So you're saying 4-Dhea will not work as a test base or that it works through a different mechanism by conversion to 4AD?
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The amount of test you would get through conversion is very minimal. Like almost nothing.
 
brundel said:
The amount of test you would get through conversion is very minimal. Like almost nothing.
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So considering I have used test years ago, I may find the gains from a high dose of1-Andro, 4-Andro, and EpiAndro laughable?
 
hairygrandpa said:
I'm using 4-AD in stack with Trenavar/Epistane, to keep my joints from drying out. My thought is, that 4-AD converts to test and excess is aromatized to estrogen, giving me a somewhat "wet" compound for my joints. Is my thought process sound? I'm using also Dermacrine, does this interfere with the 4-AD? I'm 47 by the way.
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4-Andro will certainly increase estrogen to some extent. How much and whether or not that will help your joints would be hard to say.

Typically 4-andro is ran as what most call a "test base," in order to feel more energetic and for that alpha/drive feeling. This is due more so to DHEA's conversion to 4-androstenediol (4-AD) vs conversion to test.
 
Willtolift said:
So considering I have used test years ago, I may find the gains from a high dose of1-Andro, 4-Andro, and EpiAndro laughable?
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For reference - effects of 1-andro:

West Texas A&M University, the California Baptist University and the University of Texas at Austin published research regarding 1-andro in the International Journal of Exercise Science earlier in 2013 (Granados. 2013a).

The results of which were significant increases in lean body mass 6.3±1.2%, decreased the total body fat mass by 24.6±7.1%, and increased the back squat 1-RM and average strength by 14.3±1.5% and 12.8±1.1%, respectively.

EDIT:

Cycle length was 4 weeks
Dose was 330mg 1-andro
 
kboxer7 said:
For reference - effects of 1-andro:

West Texas A&M University, the California Baptist University and the University of Texas at Austin published research regarding 1-andro in the International Journal of Exercise Science earlier in 2013 (Granados. 2013a).

The results of which were significant increases in lean body mass 6.3±1.2%, decreased the total body fat mass by 24.6±7.1%, and increased the back squat 1-RM and average strength by 14.3±1.5% and 12.8±1.1%, respectively.

EDIT:

Cycle length was 4 weeks
Dose was 330mg 1-andro
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Valid point.
 
ahh123 said:
Yeah I agree as well - scanned pic of bloodwork is more legitimate (OK somebody could also have it edited or photoshop-ed to show any number desired), while just posting numbers easier to doubt if numbers are real or just made up.

At the end is all about trust in member's posting his/her results and credibility of a member to post real results and not edited or made up.

But I'm glad topic got a lift off in posting results.
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Sadly,This thread is going to turn out to be a joke
 
If you run 4-Andro 1 week before testing, Will your test Results show up higher test because of the amount still in blood or lower ?
 
Anyone ? Becoz my docter said my test Results were pretty fine. But i dont feel fine at all.. I post the Numbers tonight
 
The first is my value the Seconds are the lab ranges
TSH - 2.1 ( 0.35- 5.00)
Testosteron - 24.1 ( 5.0 - 32.0)
Oestradiol - 0.08. ( 0.04 - 0.16)
Vitam D - 152 * ( 50-132)
 
Maybe it was taken to close at 4- Andro ? ( 7 days after )
Im running Letrone Rebirth and Viron now and test in three weeks again. I dont see how that can higher my testosteron.
 
Bodiebuilders said:
If you run 4-Andro 1 week before testing, Will your test Results show up higher test because of the amount still in blood or lower ?
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The half-life of 4 Andro isn't that long so it shouldn't translate to elevated test levels. Also, the conversion to actual test is very low.
 
So what is the concensus on bloodwork day? Go without the supplement you are testing and take your last dose the day before? Or take your last dose on the day of the blood test?
 
All Creation said:
So what is the concensus on bloodwork day? Go without the supplement you are testing and take your last dose the day before? Or take your last dose on the day of the blood test?
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Really depends on what kind of supplement you are taking, and the goal of the bloodwork. If you are taking something to reduce estrogen (for example), and want to ensure it's working, you'll want to be on it when getting bloodwork.
 
Right now I'm doing my pcr with nolva and aromasin. Added aromasin at the start of week 3 and running it for 4 weeks (so 2 weeks past end of nolva). So when should I get the bloodwork done? End of nolva or end of aromasin?
 
New post-formestane baseline blood test has been booked, will happen Monday next week. I will begin taking Letrone and Rebirth together at a maximum dose at that time, will post bloods here and also make a separate thread over in the log forum. Although many are advising me to take something like Viron or another test booster, I don't want to muddy the waters too much, such that it becomes unclear which product is producing which effect. Although I had intended to take Letrone for two months so that I'd have one blood test with Letrone alone and one with Letrone + Rebirth, Brundel has talked me into combining the two at a maximum dose due to the apparent sheer epicness of a maximum dosed Letrone, as evidenced by pre-release bloodwork from beta testers.

I therefore intend to do a separate log at some stage documenting Letrone's standalone effects. There seem to already be several logs documenting Rebirth as the main supplement so I don't feel it's particularly urgent to add to that documentation at the moment. Letrone, on the other hand, only has public logs without hormonal bloodwork at the moment, hence the need to do a standalone run at some stage to determine its effectiveness at its two recommended dosages. Will keep ye all posted and link to the log thread from here once I begin it - most likely the day I do my blood test, and then I'll just update the first post with results when I get them (originally planned to wait for results before starting, but dammit I'm just too excited to see whether this stuff can walk the talk) :p

Finally:

All Creation said:
So what is the concensus on bloodwork day? Go without the supplement you are testing and take your last dose the day before? Or take your last dose on the day of the blood test?
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Depends what you want to measure, really. If you want to find out whether a product is effective on cycle, I don't see any reason not to go for bloodwork on a day near the end of your run when you're actually taking a full dose. On the other hand, if you're trying to test what after-effects a product has (for instance, whether an AI is suicidal or competitive in terms of rebound) then it makes more sense to go after actually finishing the cycle.

I'm by no means an expert here, just an armchair hormone enthusiast, so I'm sure someone else can chime in - but I've never seen the point in doing things like fasting, changing a sleep pattern, eating more or less, or indeed doing anything out of the ordinary right before a blood test. Surely if you do, then the results you're getting are not in fact typical for you? IE, if you get your bloods done at 11AM after a 12 hour fast but you would usually have your breakfast at say 9AM, then does that not imply that the blood results you receive won't show you your "usual" levels, based on your normal everyday behaviour? If for instance sleeping for 8 hours will increase your testosterone level but you normally don't manage to sleep for more than 5-6, then in my view sleeping for 8 essentially means you're not getting a good picture of what your average day is like, blood-wise. Again I guess this depends what you're trying to measure - whether your body is capable, under the most optimal conditions, of producing optimal blood results (or conversely whether you have a deep rooted issue which means that even under optimal circumstances your hormones are sub-optimal), or what, regardless of what is possible, your average lifestyle including meal times, sleep average etc produces with regard to hormone levels.

Obviously this is all unscientific and amateur, but I just feel that artificially creating perfect conditions (sleeping more than usual, eating less than usual, etc) before a blood test means that the results you get will also be artificial compared with what they would be on any other normal day of your life. Ergo, useful for determining your potential, not so useful for determining whether or not your lifestyle allows you to live up to it. ;)
 
You don't need to fast before a hormone lab, other than sometimes a prolactin test, so it doesn't make a difference. You would want to fast before a CBC/lipids, though. You always want to test in the morning for any lab work.
 
Hey guys, I just got my bloodwork back from a solo run of Letrone, and either it works or I have my placebo effect dialed-in well. ;)

I am a 30 year old, natty who has been lifting for over 5 solid years. I have low-ish T-levels and had borderline high E-levels.

I took Letrone at 2 caps a day for 30 days and on the morning of bloodwork I took 1 capsule.

Here is my baseline bloodwork:

Hormones Baseline.PNG



And here is my Letrone bloodwork:

Hormones after Letrone.PNG



In summary, I had a decrease of 14.2 points in Estradiol, while LH increased 0.2 points and FSH increased 0.2 points. Test levels stayed almost exactly the same.


As far as anecdotal assessment: I felt more confident and more carefree while using Letrone. I also had really bad joint pain to start but that tapered away. I had excellent pumps at the gym and feel like I have physically leaned up in my appearance while only dropping 2-3 pounds.

Overall, I'm happy with Letrone and next up is a month of Viron!
 
All Creation said:
Hey guys, I just got my bloodwork back from a solo run of Letrone, and either it works or I have my placebo effect dialed-in well. ;)

I am a 30 year old, natty who has been lifting for over 5 solid years. I have low-ish T-levels and had borderline high E-levels.

I took Letrone at 2 caps a day for 30 days and on the morning of bloodwork I took 1 capsule.

In summary, I had a decrease of 14.2 points in Estradiol, while LH increased 0.2 points and FSH increased 0.2 points. Test levels stayed almost exactly the same.

As far as anecdotal assessment: I felt more confident and more carefree while using Letrone. I also had really bad joint pain to start but that tapered away. I had excellent pumps at the gym and feel like I have physically leaned up in my appearance while only dropping 2-3 pounds.

Overall, I'm happy with Letrone and next up is a month of Viron!
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Awesome, Glad to hear it did it's job!
 
That's interesting your estrogen changed, but your testosterone stayed the same (well, it dropped but an insignificant amount)
 
Hell yeah, that's awesome and thanks for posting. I don't believe there is any OTC AI that works as well. I dropped about 12pts and am on TRT.
 
All Creation said:
Hey guys, I just got my bloodwork back from a solo run of Letrone, and either it works or I have my placebo effect dialed-in well. ;)

I am a 30 year old, natty who has been lifting for over 5 solid years. I have low-ish T-levels and had borderline high E-levels.

I took Letrone at 2 caps a day for 30 days and on the morning of bloodwork I took 1 capsule.

Here is my baseline bloodwork:

View attachment 124304


And here is my Letrone bloodwork:

View attachment 124305


In summary, I had a decrease of 14.2 points in Estradiol, while LH increased 0.2 points and FSH increased 0.2 points. Test levels stayed almost exactly the same.


As far as anecdotal assessment: I felt more confident and more carefree while using Letrone. I also had really bad joint pain to start but that tapered away. I had excellent pumps at the gym and feel like I have physically leaned up in my appearance while only dropping 2-3 pounds.

Overall, I'm happy with Letrone and next up is a month of Viron!
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Thats pretty cool drop, but yeah wonder why total T didn't change despite the large drop in E.

Did you run hormonals/sarms prior to the solo lectone run?
 
Nope! I'm still completely natural, though probably not for long hanging around you gents, haha.

And yeah, I have no idea why there wouldn't be a change in T-levels. Maybe the Atractylodes somehow optimizes a better T to E ratio?
 
Might have an effect on conversion of androstenedione into testosterone preventing it somehow?
 
Just throwing this out there... But isn't the spread between test and estrogen, T to E ratio, more important than just decreasing E levels? Dudes with high T levels and low E levels develop belly fat. All the recent studies I've seen say men need both and as T goes up, E has to rise accordingly and the benefits are greater.
 
I'm sure the ratio is different from person to person when it comes to overall better health. But yes you don't want e to be too low
 
DirtyWilly said:
Just throwing this out there... But isn't the spread between test and estrogen, T to E ratio, more important than just decreasing E levels? Dudes with high T levels and low E levels develop belly fat. All the recent studies I've seen say men need both and as T goes up, E has to rise accordingly and the benefits are greater.
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could you please explain that further ?
That seems contrary to the thesis that estrogen is responsible for storing bf besides insulin
 
DirtyWilly said:
Just throwing this out there... But isn't the spread between test and estrogen, T to E ratio, more important than just decreasing E levels? Dudes with high T levels and low E levels develop belly fat. All the recent studies I've seen say men need both and as T goes up, E has to rise accordingly and the benefits are greater.
Click to expand...

I'm no scientist, but I think your thinking when T drops and E raises that causes fat to accumulate.
 
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