Powders with various ingredients? How do they ensure you get the right amounts of each?

Erebus

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Probably a dumb question but in powders with various ingredients (mela replacements, preworkout etc) in one large container, how do they ensure the ingredients are the right ratio in a serving? Is it the way they are mixed?
In other words, if you take a scoop of preworkout, how do you know you aren’t getting like 10 times the dose of caffeine and only 1/10 the amount of day creatine or whatever in a random scoop from the container?
Thanks!
 
nostrum420

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Geometric dilution is the process of diluting something based on its measured size. Most often, scientists and doctors employ this method when combining fine powders of unequal amounts to ensure equal distribution. Bakers sometimes use geometric dilution to equally combine the dry ingredients in a mixture.
 
Marne40

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Geometric dilution is the process of diluting something based on its measured size. Most often, scientists and doctors employ this method when combining fine powders of unequal amounts to ensure equal distribution. Bakers sometimes use geometric dilution to equally combine the dry ingredients in a mixture.
You forgot to drop the mic at the end of this 😂
 

Erebus

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You forgot to drop the mic at the end of this 😂
While the response is greatly appreciated it’s a literal copy and paste from a Google search so the original author probably should have that mic drop right reserved lol

I guess my question was more directed at the efficacy of this specifically as it relates to supplements and if this pharmaceutical/scientific approach was generated used by supplement companies as a standard practice

Thanks again Nostrum
 
Marne40

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While the response is greatly appreciated it’s a literal copy and paste from a Google search so the original author probably should have that mic drop right reserved lol

I guess my question was more directed at the efficacy of this specifically as it relates to supplements and if this pharmaceutical/scientific approach was generated used by supplement companies as a standard practice

Thanks again Nostrum
Fair enough. As I understand it, this is standard practice. But I’m sure you know as well as anyone that there are certainly companies who claim to do something but actually don’t. Just like some companies claim to use specific ingredients and ratios in a product when, in fact, they don’t. To be honest (and hopefully not preachy), I personally accept a little bit of risk when I purchase any supplements from companies without a long standing track record of stellar performance. Even then, things change within companies and sometimes that affects production. I guess as a last step I personally take to ensure (well, try to) even distribution in powders, is to mix the sh!t out of them occasionally. Especially when I first crack them open. Sometimes certain ingredients clump, which creates hot spots or inadvertent hot dosing. I’m certainly no expert though, so hopefully one of the board sponsors who sell powders can chime in.
 

Erebus

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Fair enough. As I understand it, this is standard practice. But I’m sure you know as well as anyone that there are certainly companies who claim to do something but actually don’t. Just like some companies claim to use specific ingredients and ratios in a product when, in fact, they don’t. To be honest (and hopefully not preachy), I personally accept a little bit of risk when I purchase any supplements from companies without a long standing track record of stellar performance. Even then, things change within companies and sometimes that affects production. I guess as a last step I personally take to ensure (well, try to) even distribution in powders, is to mix the sh!t out of them occasionally. Especially when I first crack them open. Sometimes certain ingredients clump, which creates hot spots or inadvertent hot dosing. I’m certainly no expert though, so hopefully one of the board sponsors who sell powders can chime in.
Thanks man I appreciate it!
 
sns8778

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Probably a dumb question but in powders with various ingredients (mela replacements, preworkout etc) in one large container, how do they ensure the ingredients are the right ratio in a serving? Is it the way they are mixed?
In other words, if you take a scoop of preworkout, how do you know you aren’t getting like 10 times the dose of caffeine and only 1/10 the amount of day creatine or whatever in a random scoop from the container?
Thanks!
It's not a dumb question at all. I can respect anyone trying to learn.

Improper blending is definitely a potential issue and cause for concern if companies aren't following the correct processes and procedures. I'm probably the person on this forum that talks the most about quality control in the industry and problems with some companies not using GMP compliant manufacturers and sometimes even capping/mixing products themselves with no quality control measures and oversight in place. Those cases can be scary because in those situations, things may not be mixed properly. But really in those situations, there probably hasn't been any testing done to begin with on what they're even supposed to be mixing anyway; so there's a whole other issue in play there as well.

^^^ My answer isn't related to them; but I'll answer for how its supposed to be done when done properly - which is another reason that its important to choose companies that are GMP compliant and only use contract manufacturers that are GMP compliant.

GMP compliant contract manufacturers use blenders that are designed specifically for the purpose of mixing dietary supplement and pharmaceutical ingredients. Most GMP compliant manufacturers are going to have at least 2 blenders in their facility - most commonly a smaller one for capsule runs and a larger one for powder runs. The concept and principal way that things are mixed are the same for both. The most common type that I can think of is a V blender.

Copy and pasted from a V Blender description site:
A V blender is a type of equipment that the pharmaceutical industry uses for various blending applications.
The primary reason V blender mixing is so critical for the pharmaceutical industry is because pharma companies must adhere to strict production guidelines. Included in that is extensive testing and quality assurance to ensure that all ingredients are thoroughly mixed. V blender mixing ensures the quality of the final product.

V Blender is one of the popular tumbler blender that are used in the pharmaceutical, chemical or food processing industry. Diffusion is the central mechanism of V blender mixing, which means that small-scale and random motions blends solid particles. As the movements of the blender increase, the individual particles separate and recombines which promotes diffusive blending. Without segmenting effects, in time, this results in a high level of homogeneity.


So that covers the equipment part but then there's also the testing part of things in that finished product samples should be sent out to independent labs for quality testing. Some companies test every single ingredient in each product per batch; but some don't for expense reasons, and the ones that don't should at least test for the stimulant content ingredients &/or any ingredients that could be harmful if dosed too high.

I hope that all makes sense and helps.
 
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Erebus

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It's not a dumb question at all. I can respect anyone trying to learn.

Improper blending is definitely a potential issue and cause for concern if companies aren't following the correct processes and procedures. I'm probably the person on this forum that talks the most about quality control in the industry and problems with some companies not using GMP compliant manufacturers and sometimes even capping/mixing products themselves with no quality control measures and oversight in place. Those cases can be scary because in those situations, things may not be mixed properly. But really in those situation, there probably hasn't been any testing done to begin with on what they're even supposed to be mixing anyway; so there's a whole other issue in play there as well.

^^^ My answer isn't related to them; but I'll answer for how its supposed to be done when done properly - which is another reason that its important to choose companies that are GMP compliant and only use contract manufacturers that are GMP compliant.

GMP compliant contract manufacturers use blenders that are designed specifically for the purpose of mixing dietary supplement and pharmaceutical ingredients. Most GMP compliant manufacturers are going to have at least 2 blenders in their facility - most commonly a smaller one for capsule runs and a larger one for powder runs. The concept and principal way that things are mixed are the same for both. The most common type that I can think of is a V blender.

Copy and pasted from a V Blender description site:
A V blender is a type of equipment that the pharmaceutical industry uses for various blending applications.
The primary reason V blender mixing is so critical for the pharmaceutical industry is because pharma companies must adhere to strict production guidelines. Included in that is extensive testing and quality assurance to ensure that all ingredients are thoroughly mixed. V blender mixing ensures the quality of the final product.

V Blender is one of the popular tumbler blender that are used in the pharmaceutical, chemical or food processing industry. Diffusion is the central mechanism of V blender mixing, which means that small-scale and random motions blends solid particles. As the movements of the blender increase, the individual particles separate and recombines which promotes diffusive blending. Without segmenting effects, in time, this results in a high level of homogeneity.


So that covers the equipment part but then there's also the testing part of things in that finished product samples should be sent out to independent labs for quality testing. Some companies test every single ingredient in each product per batch; but some don't for expense reasons, and the ones that don't should at least test for the stimulant content ingredients &/or any ingredients that could be harmful if dosed too high.

I hope that all makes sense and helps.
This is exactly what I was looking for!! Thank you!!
 
BCseacow83

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When dealing with a powder I always give it a good shaking. It has been my personal experience that beta-alanine in particular seems to migrate upwards. When I do not shake I seem to get a much larger hit of tingles than I do when I shake it up pre scoop. This happens in the same jug when I forget.

I have never had a vastly different feel off the stims and FOR ME they seem to keep properly dist./suspended in my pre's.

Backing up what SNS stated it behooves one to choose cGMP when dealing with stims in particular. I am not going to name as the company is now gone but I have had vastly different experiences from one cap to another of some companies' dmaa and other stim based products. The worst part was it was a solo dmaa which is even worse lol. Live, thankfully, and learn.
 
sns8778

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This is exactly what I was looking for!! Thank you!!
No problem at all. I'm glad to help in any way that I can.

And if you have questions that you're reluctant to post publicly, you're always welcome to pm them to me.
 
match

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Had my first experience with beta alanine yesterday. Hadn't experienced the tingles before and it had been some time since I'd read about it, so I didn't expect it. Was kinda weirded out at first (I'd describe it as super weak pop-rocks in my face lol) but no worse for the wear and the workout went fine.

Still, I'm not planning to go heavy into products that have it just for the sake of that feeling. But I got to experience it so /bucketlist?
 
LeanEngineer

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. But I got to experience it so /bucketlist?
I'm a fan of Wild Thing by Assault labs. Always gives me energy and the tingles when I take it!
 
BCseacow83

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Had my first experience with beta alanine yesterday. Hadn't experienced the tingles before and it had been some time since I'd read about it, so I didn't expect it. Was kinda weirded out at first (I'd describe it as super weak pop-rocks in my face lol) but no worse for the wear and the workout went fine.

Still, I'm not planning to go heavy into products that have it just for the sake of that feeling. But I got to experience it so /bucketlist?
For me the tingles GREATLY diminish with continued use.
 

Erebus

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Had my first experience with beta alanine yesterday. Hadn't experienced the tingles before and it had been some time since I'd read about it, so I didn't expect it. Was kinda weirded out at first (I'd describe it as super weak pop-rocks in my face lol) but no worse for the wear and the workout went fine.

Still, I'm not planning to go heavy into products that have it just for the sake of that feeling. But I got to experience it so /bucketlist?
Nice spot to add your experience with Beta Alanine
 

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