Plant-based Brain Booster -- Launching Soon -- Name ideas, and feedback, please!

franklinrose_chi

New member
Awards
0
Hi all,


Hope this finds you well. Our Company, Franklin Rose, is launching a new CBD-based nutraceutical product aimed at increasing overall cognitive function (clarity, focus, memory), and mitigating stress and anxiety. There are only THREE ingredients in this product and each have been individually studied for their effects. More than that, these ingredients have all been used in Chinese medicine for centuries.

What’s most interesting about these ingredients - to us at least - is that one of the key ingredients (Lion’s Mane Mushroom) has been found to drastically reduce the build up amyloid plaques on the brain’s neurons. These plaques are what lead to the development of Alzheimer’s and dementia.

Before we launch - we are looking for some feedback from our community via three BRIEF surveys.

The first survey (3 questions) is for our product packaging with various different name options. We’d like to get YOUR input on a product name that resonates with you.
(https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/PZ6X558)

The second survey (10 questions) will give us better insight on you as a potential customer. This survey dives into your weekly habits, including eating, exercise, and supplementation.
(https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/PQFKVV3)

The third survey (5 questions) will tell us about what you know about hemp derived CBD and the functional mushrooms that we utilize in our product.
(https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/P3XGHMR)

If you have any comments, questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to reach out!

Thank you very much.

All the best, always,

Bill Grady
[email protected]

P.s. - If you could so kindly forward this message to any peers that you feel would have an interest, we would be forever grateful.

P.P.S. - If you want to stay in the know about future developments, launch dates, and more, sign up for our newsletter on our website -- www.thefranklinrose.com
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
What’s the dose of lions mane you’re using? And fruiting body or mycelium?
 

N2ofusion

Member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Wait, why is this a proprietary mushroom blend? To only have 2 ingredients the dosage really can’t be disclosed? Nor the standardization? And if it’s from fruiting body?

Where are the mushrooms sourced? Are they organic? There are so many of these products available, the current lions mane we have had all of these details on the package and the location of their farm.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Wait, why is this a proprietary mushroom blend? To only have 2 ingredients the dosage really can’t be disclosed? Nor the standardization? And if it’s from fruiting body?

Where are the mushrooms sourced? Are they organic? There are so many of these products available, the current lions mane we have had all of these details on the package and the location of their farm.
Ouch. A proprietary "mushroom blend" sounds like a worse version of PeakO2, which includes lion's mane and Reishi. Considering that lion's mane is definitely the "heavy hitter" of the nootropic mushrooms, a proprietary blend of the two is really a huge turn-off IMO, since, even if it's listed first, we can't know if it's 99% lion's mane or just 50%. Also, there's a terrible tendency for supplements to HORRIBLY underdose lion's mane, often with some "extract" at a horribly low dose. I'm curious to see if these guys can finally get the dosing right (it's no secret really, the studies are out there, and PricePlow even mentioned them in their write-up on lion's mane, which I actually helped them out with). But it looks like we won't be able to know if they do, since it's in a prop blend for some reason.

Why wouldn't I just buy a CBD product, dose it optimally, and buy some lion's mane powder, and dose it optimally? Hell, I'll save this company some time if they haven't already read the human studies on lion's mane, which I really hope they have, and say that the dose used was 2-3g/day of fruiting body powder. We don't really know if, say, 200-300mg of a 10:1 extract will be equally effective, or even what's optimal for standardization (see the debate over standardizing for beta glucans vs polysaccharides), so, at least for now, until more research is done, it seems "best" (and probably cheapest too) to just mimic the human studies and use 2-3g/day of the fruiting body powder, which is also probably the easiest to get.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
What's the pricing going to look like? I can get an optimal dose of lion's mane for $20-30/month, depending on if I want powder or caps. And that's fruiting body powder, not mycelium, and it's not "cultured on oats," so I'm getting 2g of actual lion's mane fruitin
Aaaah, the AM welcome wagon.

OP this is where you say "thank you sir, may I have another?"
OP did say they're looking for feedback. So here's some more:

What's the pricing going to look like? I can get an optimal dose of lion's mane for $20-30/month, depending on if I want powder or caps. And that's fruiting body powder, not mycelium, and it's not "cultured on oats," so I'm getting 2g of actual lion's mane fruiting bodies, not some undisclosed amount of rice with my lion's mane, which is what most mycelium products have/are. You can get it even cheaper if you trust extract to be able to provide the full benefits at lower doses, but the jury is still sort of out on that, be it a ratio extract (X:1), or an extract standardized for either beta-glucans or polysaccharides.

As for CBD, I see studies at 300-600mg/day, although another used 25,50, or 75mg/day, and one subject increased the dose to 175mg/day, and noted improvements in anxiety-related issues.

300-600mg/day is going to be very cost-prohibitive, so we'll look at the 25mg/day first. I see 25mg/day of an isolate at $50/30 servings. Or NextCBD is ~$65/30 servings of 10mg, but they claim it's 20x more bioavailable than regular CBD, so that'd be equivalent to a much higher dose of normal CBD (200mg), if you believe their research.

So, what doses are you using? What sources? What's the price?
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
What's the pricing going to look like? I can get an optimal dose of lion's mane for $20-30/month, depending on if I want powder or caps. And that's fruiting body powder, not mycelium, and it's not "cultured on oats," so I'm getting 2g of actual lion's mane fruitin

OP did say they're looking for feedback. So here's some more:

What's the pricing going to look like? I can get an optimal dose of lion's mane for $20-30/month, depending on if I want powder or caps. And that's fruiting body powder, not mycelium, and it's not "cultured on oats," so I'm getting 2g of actual lion's mane fruiting bodies, not some undisclosed amount of rice with my lion's mane, which is what most mycelium products have/are. You can get it even cheaper if you trust extract to be able to provide the full benefits at lower doses, but the jury is still sort of out on that, be it a ratio extract (X:1), or an extract standardized for either beta-glucans or polysaccharides.

As for CBD, I see studies at 300-600mg/day, although another used 25,50, or 75mg/day, and one subject increased the dose to 175mg/day, and noted improvements in anxiety-related issues.

300-600mg/day is going to be very cost-prohibitive, so we'll look at the 25mg/day first. I see 25mg/day of an isolate at $50/30 servings. Or NextCBD is ~$65/30 servings of 10mg, but they claim it's 20x more bioavailable than regular CBD, so that'd be equivalent to a much higher dose of normal CBD (200mg), if you believe their research.

So, what doses are you using? What sources? What's the price?
He was looking for people to take his surveys, not shiz in his cereal.
 
Ape McGrapes

Ape McGrapes

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I use a very high quality Cordyceps Militaris extract, and have yet to feel the need to add any more. Even when I used a quality Lions Mane extract at higher doses, I felt it was underwhelming, and a bit boring of a nootropic.

I also prefer to vape cannabis for it's full spectrum of cannabinoids and terpenes, including THC. I'm of the current mindset that CBD's benefits are more than exaggerated, the market is oversaturated, opinions are still out on hemp vs cannabis derived CBD as well as full spectrum vs isolate, the market is heavily unregulated, prices outrageous(more than weed itself), and just feels like snake oil. He'll even cannabis as medicine is overexagerated.

And for everyone else: OP is a non sponsor, who came here for opinions, and who I assume knows the reputation that AM and its members have.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
It's possible his research method doesn't involve individual interviews with internet bros.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
I use a very high quality Cordyceps Militaris extract, and have yet to feel the need to add any more. Even when I used a quality Lions Mane extract at higher doses, I felt it was underwhelming, and a bit boring of a nootropic.

I also prefer to vape cannabis for it's full spectrum of cannabinoids and terpenes, including THC. I'm of the current mindset that CBD's benefits are more than exaggerated, the market is oversaturated, opinions are still out on hemp vs cannabis derived CBD as well as full spectrum vs isolate, the market is heavily unregulated, prices outrageous(more than weed itself), and just feels like snake oil. He'll even cannabis as medicine is overexagerated.

And for everyone else: OP is a non sponsor, who came here for opinions, and who I assume knows the reputation that AM and its members have.
Why do you assume someone who's not on AM knows the culture?
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
It's possible his research method doesn't involve individual interviews with internet bros.
It’s also entirely possible that he’s just coming here as a non-sponsor to try to get free advertising too. Who knows.

As for what he came for, well, he also got constructive criticism, wanted or otherwise. If he can’t handle that, he doesn’t really have a place in the industry IMO.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
It’s also entirely possible that he’s just coming here as a non-sponsor to try to get free advertising too. Who knows.

As for what he came for, well, he also got constructive criticism, wanted or otherwise. If he can’t handle that, he doesn’t really have a place in the industry IMO.
I think he just wanted people to take a survey.

He has no idea if any of the dudes here have any qualifications whatsoever to offer constructive criticism.

He's starting by aggregating data; it's a solid research method as opposed to parsing anecdotes from internet guys.
 
Ape McGrapes

Ape McGrapes

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I think he just wanted people to take a survey.

He has no idea if any of the dudes here have any qualifications whatsoever to offer constructive criticism.

He's starting by aggregating data; it's a solid research method as opposed to parsing anecdotes from internet guys.
But why come to A.M. then? What appeal did we present to him? Are we, or are we not his target audience? And I didn't come here to take surveys for someone offering nothing to this forum, but I did take them, and there for I will put in my 2 cents.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
But why come to A.M. then? What appeal did we present to him? Are we, or are we not his target audience? And I didn't come here to take surveys for someone offering nothing to this forum, but I did take them, and there for I will put in my 2 cents.
Numbers. There are a lot of people here. Some of them will take a survey. If there are a number of comments in the thread that are simple and ubiquitous that's helpful too ie if several people asked for a CBD free version.

Chances are he's spamming these links everywhere, though so he's probably not going to read and/or put a lot of stock in a dissertation from one guy.

This is not to say I think anything you guys said was wrong; I just think the dissection was largely a waste of your time.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Numbers. There are a lot of people here. Some of them will take a survey. If there are a number of comments in the thread that are simple and ubiquitous that's helpful too ie if several people asked for a CBD free version.

Chances are he's spamming these links everywhere, though so he's probably not going to read and/or put a lot of stock in a dissertation from one guy.

This is not to say I think anything you guys said was wrong; I just think the dissection was largely a waste of your time.
So if he's spamming the links everywhere, for all we know it's just a sneaky way to get free advertising without paying to be a sponsor? Or maybe I'm just a cynic. And maybe I am wasting my time with feedback/criticism, but maybe not. And if it helps eve one person reading this, be it the company owner, or just a random user/guest/reader who happens to be interested in the product or any of the ingredients in it, then I think it's worth it. :)

I think he just wanted people to take a survey.

He has no idea if any of the dudes here have any qualifications whatsoever to offer constructive criticism.

He's starting by aggregating data; it's a solid research method as opposed to parsing anecdotes from internet guys.
Frankly, it doesn't really matter what he wants. He's an non-sponsor supplement company, and he's going to get the same feedback that any other company would when they discuss their products here. Hell, for all we know this is all just his way of trying to get free advertising for his company, who knows really.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
But why come to A.M. then? What appeal did we present to him? Are we, or are we not his target audience? And I didn't come here to take surveys for someone offering nothing to this forum, but I did take them, and there for I will put in my 2 cents.
Seconded. I also filled out the surveys, so I figured I'd give some more feedback, and also, if the posts are useful to any other users/guests/etc, then I'm happy. If not, oh well.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
Even as a sponsor myself, I don't understand the mentality. If he throws cash at the forum owner, he's suddenly legitimate?
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Even as a sponsor myself, I don't understand the mentality. If he throws cash at the forum owner, he's suddenly legitimate?
No, but if you read my post history, you'll see I give feedback/criticism on a LOT of products/formulas, wanted or otherwise. ;)

My point in mentioning that he's the owner/whatever of a non-sponsor company was just to say that maybe he doesn't even care about the feedback he gets, and just wants free advertising without having to be a sponsor.

It has no bearing on the quality of his formula, but I'm just saying that none of us really know his motives, and if he wants feedback, we're going to give it to him. Probably more than he asked for, but he's welcome to ignore it if he wants to.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
No, but if you read my post history, you'll see I give feedback/criticism on a LOT of products/formulas, wanted or otherwise. ;)

My point in mentioning that he's the owner/whatever of a non-sponsor company was just to say that maybe he doesn't even care about the feedback he gets, and just wants free advertising without having to be a sponsor.

It has no bearing on the quality of his formula, but I'm just saying that none of us really know his motives, and if he wants feedback, we're going to give it to him. Probably more than he asked for, but he's welcome to ignore it if he wants to.
I just get irritated with hazing culture. I've watched multiple great forums die because of it.

I just don't think tearing down someone's supp. idea and accusing them of being unscrupulous is the warmest greeting, I guess.

I'd also be careful with throwing accusations at the mere mention of a non-sponsor's product. If anyone who doesn't cough up the cash gets run out of town you also create an environment where someone can sell junk and gain a certain level credibility just by throwing money into their advertising budgets for "sponsorships."
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I just get irritated with hazing culture. I've watched multiple great forums die because of it.

I just don't think tearing down someone's supp. idea and accusing them of being unscrupulous is the warmest greeting, I guess.

I'd also be careful with throwing accusations at the mere mention of a non-sponsor's product. If anyone who doesn't cough up the cash gets run out of town you also create an environment where someone can sell junk and gain a certain level credibility just by throwing money into their advertising budgets for "sponsorships."
Would you claim what I did is hazing though? If so, then I guess I never stop hazing people/companies, even ones that have been here for years, since you'll see I criticize/evaluate formulas all the time. I treated this guy/company no differently than I treat any/every other company here. Hell, I've been way harsher with way more established sponsors on multiple occasions over the years. I only mentioned the non-sponsor because you seem to be talking about his motives, what he came here for, and I'm saying that we really have no idea what his end-goal is here. He wanted feedback from the surveys, so I filled them out, and then gave my $0.02 on the product based on the available information. He's more than welcome to ignore it entirely if he wants to. But to suggest that I'm somehow in the wrong for giving it, that we should just do EXACTLY what a new user who stands to make money partially off our feedback wants, and nothing at all more? No thank you; I'll give my $0.02, or a bit more, while I'm at it. They came here asking for feedback, so they're going to get it. :)
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
Would you claim what I did is hazing though? If so, then I guess I never stop hazing people/companies, even ones that have been here for years, since you'll see I criticize/evaluate formulas all the time. I treated this guy/company no differently than I treat any/every other company here. Hell, I've been way harsher with way more established sponsors on multiple occasions over the years. I only mentioned the non-sponsor because you seem to be talking about his motives, what he came here for, and I'm saying that we really have no idea what his end-goal is here. He wanted feedback from the surveys, so I filled them out, and then gave my $0.02 on the product based on the available information. He's more than welcome to ignore it entirely if he wants to. But to suggest that I'm somehow in the wrong for giving it, that we should just do EXACTLY what a new user who stands to make money partially off our feedback wants, and nothing at all more? No thank you; I'll give my $0.02, or a bit more, while I'm at it. They came here asking for feedback, so they're going to get it. :)
Yes, hazing just about always involves having an established group member perform the same tasks as the newcomer. This makes it seem even handed but the established member intrinsically has a better understanding of the culture and as stated an established place in the group.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Yes, hazing just about always involves having an established group member perform the same tasks as the newcomer. This makes it seem even handed but the established member intrinsically has a better understanding of the culture and as stated an established place in the group.
What?

From Merriam Webster:
an initiation process involving harassment
If I'm treating the newcomer the same as I treat established members, it doesn't fit the above definition, as there's no "initiation process" involved at all.

Also, a university's definition of hazing:
Acts of hazing only include those acts which are done for the purpose of pledging, being initiated into, affiliating with, participating in, holding office in, or maintaining membership in any organization.
https://deanofstudents.umich.edu/article/what-hazing

Again, I'm treating the new user exactly the same as I treat established members/companies, so I don't see how it fits the definition of hazing at all.

If I tore apart his formula and said "well, that's what we do to new members. Once you're established I'll stop doing that and/or heap praises on your products no matter what," then yeah, that'd be hazing.

And would you say my feedback was unconstructive? Hazing is harassment, and has no functional purpose/use. You're suggesting that anything that can be viewed as criticism is inherently hazing if it's directed towards a new member?
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Also, from the OP:

If you have any comments, questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to reach out!
Sort of sounds like he's not exactly adverse to other feedback/comments/concerns.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
"Hazing is any action taken or any situation created intentionally that causes embarrassment, harassment or ridicule and risks emotional and/or physical harm to members of a group or team, whether new or not, regardless of the person’s willingness to participate."

 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
"Hazing is any action taken or any situation created intentionally that causes embarrassment, harassment or ridicule and risks emotional and/or physical harm to members of a group or team, whether new or not, regardless of the person’s willingness to participate."

Using that definition, or at least your apparent interpretation of it, literally any constructive criticism can be viewed as hazing if someone, anyone, determines that it embarrasses them? If a term can include everything and anything, it means nothing. Furthermore, and more importantly, I did not create the situation, intentionally or otherwise, so I don't think it even fits your definition of hazing. What situation did I "create intentionally" here? Using the definition, to very slightly paraphrase, that hazing is "any action taken that causes embarrassment," then literally anything can be viewed as hazing.

You put out a product with DAA and CEE and I say that you clearly didn't do your research and it's a terrible product that doesn't work? Hazing. You put out a pre-workout with 600mg caffeine per serving and 1g arginine for pumps, and I tell you it's terrible. You're embarrassed. Hazing. That's asinine.

This isn't an "initiation rite" as your reference mentions, as it's how I treat everyone here, including veteran members and sponsors.

I really don't see how my critiquing a formula is hazing. If anything, I'd be treating the new guy differently by not giving feedback on the formula. That's sort of what I do here...
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Doesn't the entire concept of hazing revolve primarily around treating new members differently (worse) as part of an initiation and/or a rite of passage? Criticizing a formula would therefore only be hazing if it's something I'm only doing, or doing differently, to a new member. If I regularly criticize the formulas mentioned and put out by established, veteran members, how is that hazing?
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
Doesn't the entire concept of hazing revolve primarily around treating new members differently (worse) as part of an initiation and/or a rite of passage? Criticizing a formula would therefore only be hazing if it's something I'm only doing, or doing differently, to a new member. If I regularly criticize the formulas mentioned and put out by established, veteran members, how is that hazing?
Nevermind; you're right.
 

franklinrose_chi

New member
Awards
0
Hi all,

All of your feedback is duly noted. We are in the very early stages of development, and are refining our product formulation based on a number of variables... including effects and flavor. I posted this survey on here looking to get an initial feel for the Community's knowledge around CBD and Mushroom products, and was pleasantly surprised by the results.

To answer a few of your questions... We are sourcing our organic fruiting body extracts from Nammex, a Canadian Company that has been producing these products for over 40 years. They source most of their mushrooms from farms in China, and put them through ethanol and water extraction. I encourage those of you who think mushrooms from China are poorer quality to check out their website to learn that's not the case.


Next - we can assure you that the mushroom blend will NOT be proprietary when we launch. As mentioned, we are just testing various different formulations at this time. We'll be using 1,000mg full spectrum CBD Oil. The Lion's Mane dose will be between 1,000 and 3,000mg per bottle. The Reishi will be between 600mg and 1,000mg per bottle.

Which leads me to my next point - the topic of bioavailability. The absorption rate of the product based on the type of application. When you ingest capsules, it takes about 2 hours for the effects to kick in, and only about 5% of what you ingested gets absorbed into your bloodstream. With tinctures (sublingual application) it takes about 20 minutes for the effects to kick in, and around 35% is absorbed into your blood stream. Hence why we can use less Lion's Mane and Reishi to achieve similar effects.

Finally - CBD. Why Full Spectrum CBD, and not isolate? Early research shows that the efficacy of CBD is significantly higher when combining it with trace amounts of THC. We see so many other Companies charging people an arm and a leg for their CBD products, which will NOT be the case with Franklin Rose products.

If you'd like to stay up to date regarding launch, Company information, discounts, and more, I encourage you to sign up for our newsletter on our website (www.thefranklinrose.com) and follow up on instagram @thefranklinrose

Thanks again for all of your feedback.

All the best,
Bill Grady
[email protected]
 

franklinrose_chi

New member
Awards
0
What is the price point going to be around ?
Hi Patrick - we are trying to get the pricing around $60-65 per bottle. Each bottle has 30 servings. Yes - this is more than you'd pay for a tincture with Lion's Mane and/or Reishi, but quite competitive for 1,000 mg CBD... especially 1,000mg of FULL SPECTRUM CBD.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Hi all,

All of your feedback is duly noted. We are in the very early stages of development, and are refining our product formulation based on a number of variables... including effects and flavor. I posted this survey on here looking to get an initial feel for the Community's knowledge around CBD and Mushroom products, and was pleasantly surprised by the results.

To answer a few of your questions... We are sourcing our organic fruiting body extracts from Nammex, a Canadian Company that has been producing these products for over 40 years. They source most of their mushrooms from farms in China, and put them through ethanol and water extraction. I encourage those of you who think mushrooms from China are poorer quality to check out their website to learn that's not the case.


Next - we can assure you that the mushroom blend will NOT be proprietary when we launch. As mentioned, we are just testing various different formulations at this time. We'll be using 1,000mg full spectrum CBD Oil. The Lion's Mane dose will be between 1,000 and 3,000mg per bottle. The Reishi will be between 600mg and 1,000mg per bottle.

Which leads me to my next point - the topic of bioavailability. The absorption rate of the product based on the type of application. When you ingest capsules, it takes about 2 hours for the effects to kick in, and only about 5% of what you ingested gets absorbed into your bloodstream. With tinctures (sublingual application) it takes about 20 minutes for the effects to kick in, and around 35% is absorbed into your blood stream. Hence why we can use less Lion's Mane and Reishi to achieve similar effects.

Finally - CBD. Why Full Spectrum CBD, and not isolate? Early research shows that the efficacy of CBD is significantly higher when combining it with trace amounts of THC. We see so many other Companies charging people an arm and a leg for their CBD products, which will NOT be the case with Franklin Rose products.

If you'd like to stay up to date regarding launch, Company information, discounts, and more, I encourage you to sign up for our newsletter on our website (www.thefranklinrose.com) and follow up on instagram @thefranklinrose

Thanks again for all of your feedback.

All the best,
Bill Grady
[email protected]
Nammex is legit, so props for that. But 1000mg per BOTTLE? Is this a single-serving drink in bottles? It’s sublingual you’re saying? Otherwise the claim of superior sublingual application isn’t relevant. And do you have research on oral vs sublingual tincture absorption for lion’s mane specifically? Particularly in humans? Your claiming a 7x increase absorption with sublingual use relative to oral use for lions mane. Can you show me how you arrived at this conclusion?

Also, you’re telling me that your nootropic will contain THC? So I’ll fail a drug test for work using your “cognitive enhancer?” That doesn’t sound too smart to me. Or am I misunderstanding what you’re saying here?
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Hi all,

All of your feedback is duly noted. We are in the very early stages of development, and are refining our product formulation based on a number of variables... including effects and flavor. I posted this survey on here looking to get an initial feel for the Community's knowledge around CBD and Mushroom products, and was pleasantly surprised by the results.

To answer a few of your questions... We are sourcing our organic fruiting body extracts from Nammex, a Canadian Company that has been producing these products for over 40 years. They source most of their mushrooms from farms in China, and put them through ethanol and water extraction. I encourage those of you who think mushrooms from China are poorer quality to check out their website to learn that's not the case.


Next - we can assure you that the mushroom blend will NOT be proprietary when we launch. As mentioned, we are just testing various different formulations at this time. We'll be using 1,000mg full spectrum CBD Oil. The Lion's Mane dose will be between 1,000 and 3,000mg per bottle. The Reishi will be between 600mg and 1,000mg per bottle.

Which leads me to my next point - the topic of bioavailability. The absorption rate of the product based on the type of application. When you ingest capsules, it takes about 2 hours for the effects to kick in, and only about 5% of what you ingested gets absorbed into your bloodstream. With tinctures (sublingual application) it takes about 20 minutes for the effects to kick in, and around 35% is absorbed into your blood stream. Hence why we can use less Lion's Mane and Reishi to achieve similar effects.

Finally - CBD. Why Full Spectrum CBD, and not isolate? Early research shows that the efficacy of CBD is significantly higher when combining it with trace amounts of THC. We see so many other Companies charging people an arm and a leg for their CBD products, which will NOT be the case with Franklin Rose products.

If you'd like to stay up to date regarding launch, Company information, discounts, and more, I encourage you to sign up for our newsletter on our website (www.thefranklinrose.com) and follow up on instagram @thefranklinrose

Thanks again for all of your feedback.

All the best,
Bill Grady
[email protected]
Nammex is legit, so props for that. But 1000mg per BOTTLE? Is this a single-serving drink in bottles? It’s sublingual you’re saying? Otherwise the claim of superior sublingual application isn’t relevant. And do you have research on oral vs sublingual tincture absorption for lion’s mane specifically? Particularly in humans? Your claiming a 7x increase absorption with sublingual use relative to oral use for lions mane. Can you show me how you arrived at this conclusion?

Also, you’re telling me that your nootropic will contain THC? So I’ll fail a drug test for work using your “cognitive enhancer?” That doesn’t sound too smart to me. Or am I misunderstanding what you’re saying here?
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
So 1000/3000mg lions mane per 30 servings = 33-100mg per serving. Your claim of 7x increased absorption via sublingual delivery relative to oral delivery brings that up to 233-700mg equivalent, if your claims are accurate. Isn’t that still a far cry from the 2000-3000mg/day used in human studies? I guess the question is what ratio/potency is your extract from Nammex? Because I see multiple places selling Nammex lion’s mane extract recommending at least 500mg/day.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
So 1000/3000mg lions mane per 30 servings = 33-100mg per serving. Your claim of 7x increased absorption via sublingual delivery relative to oral delivery brings that up to 233-700mg equivalent, if your claims are accurate. Isn’t that still a far cry from the 2000-3000mg/day used in human studies? I guess the question is what ratio/potency is your extract from Nammex? Because I see multiple places selling Nammex lion’s mane extract recommending at least 500mg/day.
 

franklinrose_chi

New member
Awards
0
Nammex is legit, so props for that. But 1000mg per BOTTLE? Is this a single-serving drink in bottles? It’s sublingual you’re saying? Otherwise the claim of superior sublingual application isn’t relevant. And do you have research on oral vs sublingual tincture absorption for lion’s mane specifically? Particularly in humans? Your claiming a 7x increase absorption with sublingual use relative to oral use for lions mane. Can you show me how you arrived at this conclusion?

Also, you’re telling me that your nootropic will contain THC? So I’ll fail a drug test for work using your “cognitive enhancer?” That doesn’t sound too smart to me. Or am I misunderstanding what you’re saying here?
Hello - Yes, this is a sublingual product, not a drink. Below is a link to the study on the bioavailability of sublingual applications of cannabinoids, not Lion's Mane mushroom. There is no such study at this time.

Yes - Human studies have been performed with 500mg - 2grams of Lions Mane, but the jury is still out for other doses that are effective. The homeopathic medicine doctor that has been consulting our Company has mentioned that many of his patients have found high doses (500+mg/day) come with side effects, including itchy, tingly skin. We are looking to avoid our product having any potential for side effects.

With reference to drug tests - that is very much a possibility, but with ALL CBD products. Some people's bodies convert CBD to THC, and cause them to fail drug screenings.

Please note that Full Spectrum CBD must contain less than 0.3% THC, otherwise its considered a marijuana product (illegal in most states & illegal to produce with out a license). Most urine drug tests will not pick up the trace amounts of THC in these full spectrum CBD products, unless you are taking a significant amount of them daily.... i.e. way more than the recommended doses. Hair follicle tests are generally more precise. On the bright side of this topic - many employers are no longer testing for THC, so that may be a conversation you could have with your employer.

More info on this here: https://plantpeople.co/cbd-drug-test/

If this is an issue for you, I do not think our product will be for you. However, we intend on coming out with a Broad Spectrum (THC-free) line of products later this year, so stay tuned!

Best,
Bill Grady
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Hello - Yes, this is a sublingual product, not a drink. Below is a link to the study on the bioavailability of sublingual applications of cannabinoids, not Lion's Mane mushroom. There is no such study at this time.

Yes - Human studies have been performed with 500mg - 2grams of Lions Mane, but the jury is still out for other doses that are effective. The homeopathic medicine doctor that has been consulting our Company has mentioned that many of his patients have found high doses (500+mg/day) come with side effects, including itchy, tingly skin. We are looking to avoid our product having any potential for side effects.

With reference to drug tests - that is very much a possibility, but with ALL CBD products. Some people's bodies convert CBD to THC, and cause them to fail drug screenings.

Please note that Full Spectrum CBD must contain less than 0.3% THC, otherwise its considered a marijuana product (illegal in most states & illegal to produce with out a license). Most urine drug tests will not pick up the trace amounts of THC in these full spectrum CBD products, unless you are taking a significant amount of them daily.... i.e. way more than the recommended doses. Hair follicle tests are generally more precise. On the bright side of this topic - many employers are no longer testing for THC, so that may be a conversation you could have with your employer.

More info on this here: https://plantpeople.co/cbd-drug-test/

If this is an issue for you, I do not think our product will be for you. However, we intend on coming out with a Broad Spectrum (THC-free) line of products later this year, so stay tuned!

Best,
Bill Grady
No, studies have not been done with 500-2000mg lion's mane, they've been done with 2000-3000mg lion's mane. You may be confusing 500mg SERVINGS taken multiple times per day with a 500mg daily dose; the latter has not been conducted AFAIK. If you are aware of human studies on lion's mane using 500mg/day, please, please, please post them up here for me to see. Thanks in advance.

This homeopathic doctor who says the 500mg + doses are associated with side effects; is that 500mg ORALLY, or sublingually? And is that with just powder, or Nammex extract?

Also, there are multiple CBD products that have testing showing ND THC, which should NOT lead to a positive drug test, so I don't think that's true either. Also, the source you provided on CBD testing doesn't have any actual scientific references, and the scientific/research consensus on this topic is pretty contentious, with authors of papers actually calling each other out by name in their papers haha.

For example:
In conclusion, both publications, that of Merrick et al.1 and Bonn-Miller et al.,2 are unfortunately misleading in many aspects. Over 40 years of research on CBD does not suggest a conversion of CBD to delta9-THC and/or other cannabinoids in vivo after oral administration. Such transformation occurs under artificial conditions, but is without any relevance for an oral therapy with CBD. Traces of delta9-THC in CBD per se, although theoretically possible in less-purified CBD productions, are unlikely to be of concern as long as the intake does not exceed the LOAEL.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5510776/

Findings of the present study show that orally dosed CBD, yielding clinically relevant plasma exposures, does not convert to THC in the minipig, a species predictive of human GI tract function.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5744690/
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Nammex is legit, so props for that. But 1000mg per BOTTLE? Is this a single-serving drink in bottles? It’s sublingual you’re saying? Otherwise the claim of superior sublingual application isn’t relevant. And do you have research on oral vs sublingual tincture absorption for lion’s mane specifically? Particularly in humans? Your claiming a 7x increase absorption with sublingual use relative to oral use for lions mane. Can you show me how you arrived at this conclusion?

Also, you’re telling me that your nootropic will contain THC? So I’ll fail a drug test for work using your “cognitive enhancer?” That doesn’t sound too smart to me. Or am I misunderstanding what you’re saying here?
Also, where in that cannabis study does it discuss oral vs sublingual absorption? The only mention of "sublingual" is to this study:

https://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/2003-03-04-5.pdf

Which seems to only have used sublingual administration. So are you taking the results from that study and comparing the absorption to what other studies that used oral dosing observed? Or am I missing something?
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Oral vs sublingual CBD research:

Cmax and AUC following oral administration also appears to be dose dependent. A dose of 10 mg CBD resulted in mean Cmax of 2.47 ng/mL at 1.27 h...
A dose of 800 mg oral CBD in a study involving 8 male and female cannabis smokers, reported a mean Cmax of 77.9 ng/mL and mean Tmax of 3.0 h (Haney et al., 2016). Although, an increase in dose corresponds with an increase in Cmax, the Cmax between the higher doses of CBD does not greatly differ, suggesting a saturation effect (e.g., between 400 and 800 mg).
One hour after oral capsule administration containing 5.4 mg CBD in males and females, mean Cmax was reported as 0.93 ng/mL (higher for female participants than male) (Nadulski et al., 2005a). A subset (n = 12) consumed a standard breakfast meal 1 h after the capsules, which slightly increased mean Cmax to 1.13 ng/mL.
A number of trials in humans were conducted by Guy and colleagues to explore administration route efficiency of sprays, an aerosol, and a nebuliser containing CBD or CBD and THC (CBD dose 10 or 20 mg) (Guy and Flint, 2004; Guy and Robson, 2004a,b). Oromucosal spray, either buccal, sublingual, or oropharyngeal administration, resulted in mean Cmax between 2.5 and 3.3 ng/mL and mean Tmax between 1.64 and 4.2 h. Sublingual drops resulted in similar Cmax of 2.05 and 2.58 ng/mL and Tmax of 2.17 and 1.67 h, respectively. Other oromucosal single dose studies reported Cmax and Tmax values within similar ranges (Karschner et al., 2011; Atsmon et al., 2017b).
So we have, with 10mg CBD:

Oral: 2.47 ng/mL at 1.27 hours
Sublingual: 2.05 ng/mL at 2.17 h

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6275223/

That hardly seems like 7x increased bioavailability/absorption to me. Or faster.

Am I missing something big here?
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
No, studies have not been done with 500-2000mg lion's mane, they've been done with 2000-3000mg lion's mane. You may be confusing 500mg SERVINGS taken multiple times per day with a 500mg daily dose; the latter has not been conducted AFAIK. If you are aware of human studies on lion's mane using 500mg/day, please, please, please post them up here for me to see. Thanks in advance.

This homeopathic doctor who says the 500mg + doses are associated with side effects; is that 500mg ORALLY, or sublingually? And is that with just powder, or Nammex extract?

Also, there are multiple CBD products that have testing showing ND THC, which should NOT lead to a positive drug test, so I don't think that's true either. Also, the source you provided on CBD testing doesn't have any actual scientific references, and the scientific/research consensus on this topic is pretty contentious, with authors of papers actually calling each other out by name in their papers haha.

For example:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5510776/



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5744690/
Breh,

You should start a supp company.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Aren't you under an NDA or anything? Yet givin' away all the company secrets.
Company secrets? What company secrets have I given away? I’m not sharing anything on lions mane that hasn’t been extensively written about already. PricePlow’s write-up on it talks about the studies on it, but I did help them with the research for that article. And I really don’t think we plan on coming out with a THC product TBH, so I’m good there.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
Company secrets? What company secrets have I given away? I’m not sharing anything on lions mane that hasn’t been extensively written about already. PricePlow’s write-up on it talks about the studies on it, but I did help them with the research for that article. And I really don’t think we plan on coming out with a THC product TBH, so I’m good there.
You don't see how calling it a THC product is derisive?
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
You don't see how calling it a THC product is derisive?
If it contains enough THC to potentially lead to failing a drug test, it’s disingenuous not to mention it. Regardless, don’t plan on releasing a “full spectrum cannabis” product either.

And I’m not sold on CBD as a nootropic either way lol.
 

franklinrose_chi

New member
Awards
0
If it contains enough THC to potentially lead to failing a drug test, it’s disingenuous not to mention it. Regardless, don’t plan on releasing a “full spectrum cannabis” product either.

And I’m not sold on CBD as a nootropic either way lol.
I am curious what you think about anxiety and stress's role in cognitive performance, and how CBD (and Reishi) may play a role in combatting that.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I am curious what you think about anxiety and stress's role in cognitive performance, and how CBD (and Reishi) may play a role in combatting that.
I think there’s an established definition of nootropics, and there are a myriad of things that can indirectly benefit various aspects of cognition and mental performance via reducing stress and anxiety. That said, they’re conditionally beneficial, as they’ll restore cognition to what your normal non-stressed baseline would be, as opposed to what something like a lion’s mane or bacopa can do and improve memory and cognition beyond your normal baseline. Or even an Ashwagandha, which is great for stress and anxiety, and cortisol, and also has been shown to have nootropic benefits. Can you point me to actual research showing cognitive benefits in healthy subjects with CBD, or are you just hypothesizing that it’ll improve cognition by means or reducing stress and anxiety? Also, we cannot inherently assume benefits in normalizing cognition to healthy baseline levels in disease states or cognitive decline will also mean cognitive enhancement above baseline n healthy normal subjects. But even then, the research seems focused on mostly showing that CBD doesn’t negatively impact cognition, memory, and motor performance than showing it improves them.
 
Beau

Beau

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
I would like to submit a name, and respectfully request that it be considered for this product:

"The Helmeted Warrior, brought to you by Hugh Jorgan"

I believe it reflects the unique nature of this product, and minimizes the potential for misunderstanding.
 

Similar threads


Top