Next cycle - Test, Deca, EQ

[Jinsun]

Yeah I think I’m going to run MK677 for a while. How long can it be ran?

I hear a lot of guys do 5 days on 2 days off.

I think @CroLifter is more suited for that answer. You can also do some research, this is, by now, relatively well known data. I haven't delved in to it that much, because, I actually really can't stand ghrelin mimetics 24/7, ie. I don't use Mk at all and usually don't recommend it. It's anxiety inducing and you are hungry all the time. But some tolerate it more then others and you can always try it out for your self and see how you respond to it. Just don't force your self with it like crolifter is, it's not tren where you live with the sides for a short while - but gain a significant amount of positives that really transform your body. It's freakin Mk677, and if you don't feel good on it, just let it go down the drain : ) That's my best advice.

 

[saderboy80]

I think @CroLifter is more suited for that answer. You can also do some research, this is, by now, relatively well known data. I haven't delved in to it that much, because, I actually really can't stand ghrelin mimetics 24/7, ie. I don't use Mk at all and usually don't recommend it. It's anxiety inducing and you are hungry all the time. But some tolerate it more then others and you can always try it out for your self and see how you respond to it. Just don't force your self with it like crolifter is, it's not tren where you live with the sides for a short while - but gain a significant amount of positives that really transform your body. It's freakin Mk677, and if you don't feel good on it, just let it go down the drain : ) That's my best advice.

Yeah I’ll dig around and see what I can find. I’ve used it before and haven’t gotten any side effects from it. I take it before bed so I’m not hungry during the day.

What’s your stance on peptides?

 

[Whisky]

Yeah I’ll dig around and see what I can find. I’ve used it before and haven’t gotten any side effects from it. I take it before bed so I’m not hungry during the day.

What’s your stance on peptides?

did somebody say my magic word....... can’t recall where Jin is at on peptides but I love them.

used right they can be very effective - what area in particular are you thinking of?

re mk

it can lead to insulin resistance relatively quickly hence why Mike Arnold and others suggest 5 on 2 off. You can also counter this with berberine or metformin (which is what I do).

personally I hold around 2lbs water on mk and that’s about it side wise, improved recovery is the most noted benefit I get. There’s some sleep improvement and occasional weird dreams (weird fun rather than scary) but individual response varies.

I like it on a bulk and or periods of hard training. I personally don’t find it great for fat loss (I think there is better tools for that job).

combining with cjc dac (or no dac if you don’t mind multiple jabs) dramatically increases the effect.

 

[saderboy80]

did somebody say my magic word....... can’t recall where Jin is at on peptides but I love them.

used right they can be very effective - what area in particular are you thinking of?

re mk

it can lead to insulin resistance relatively quickly hence why Mike Arnold and others suggest 5 on 2 off. You can also counter this with berberine or metformin (which is what I do).

personally I hold around 2lbs water on mk and that’s about it side wise, improved recovery is the most noted benefit I get. There’s some sleep improvement and occasional weird dreams (weird fun rather than scary) but individual response varies.

I like it on a bulk and or periods of hard training. I personally don’t find it great for fat loss (I think there is better tools for that job).

combining with cjc dac (or no dac if you don’t mind multiple jabs) dramatically increases the effect.

Haha yep!! I have pretty poor knowledge with regards to peptides. I have taken mk677 and take beriberine, chaos and pain predator and chromium alongside it.

I would be using the peptides for bulking on my next cycle.

 

[Whisky]

Haha yep!! I have pretty poor knowledge with regards to peptides. I have taken mk677 and take beriberine, chaos and pain predator and chromium alongside it.

I would be using the peptides for bulking on my next cycle.

they won’t directly contribute much to a bulk (compared to aas) but they can contribute by addressing areas that might hold you back.

for example, bpc 157 and tb 500 are great as an injury preventive measure when pushing the weights in a bulk.

Mots-c would be another that could be beneficial in a bulk to limit fat gain even in a surplus.

 

[Jinsun]

it can lead to insulin resistance relatively quickly hence why Mike Arnold and others suggest 5 on 2 off. You can also counter this with berberine or metformin (which is what I do).

You know, the last time I used them (this summer), it was ghrp2, ipa and cjcdac. Ghrp2 in the morning and ipa before bed. 4mg/week of CJC. I had to stop the "cycle" as I was pissing all the time. Don't know if this was due to insulin resistance or something else, but it was obnoxious. Maybe the peps were bad? Or it's just my body's response to peps or what, idk ... They were Bio-peptide btw.

Did you experience anything similar?

 

[Whisky]

You know, the last time I used them (this summer), it was ghrp2, ipa and cjcdac. Ghrp2 in the morning and ipa before bed. 4mg/week of CJC. I had to stop the "cycle" as I was pissing all the time. Don't know if this was due to insulin resistance or something else, but it was obnoxious. Maybe the peps were bad? Or it's just my body's response to peps or what, idk ... They were Bio-peptide btw.

Did you experience anything similar?

not specifically to be honest. I’ve run cjc dac with ipam and mk a few times and never noticed that. I drink a lot so piss pretty frequently anyway I guess

 

[CroLifter]

@saderboy80 it depends, i myself feel like it doesnt work anymore after a month of 5 on 2 off, i mean it is working for sure, but the response is nothing like the 1st 2 weeks where i get crazy pumps and glycogen retention

you can run it for as long as you like but eventually you will feel like it doesnt work as well, at that point it makes sense to cycle off and resensitize.

Yeah man. It's not worth it. If you feel like crap and your Willy isn't working, just don't do it. A healthy libido is imo a key thing in life. Not just sex. I mean sex is important but being passionate towards life in general, you mustn't kill that with aas or any other drug for that matter. At this point in life, this drug abuse, is surely becoming a defining feature for you and since you are not earning money with it, you gotta ask yourself a couple of hard questions. I mean how does it sound, a 24 y/o saying "I cant have sex, because I'm taking this drug, or that drug, etc.". Know what I mean ...? You don't have a real medical need for all of this. Didn't want to go all philosophical on you here - but - hearing you talking about all of this, just sounds a bit silly bro. Especially the Mk part and picking a part in your life that you have a functioning sexual organ lawl.
When I was still with my ex, I cycled once and once I was dealing with gyno. Both times when I was taking serms, my sex drive and libido was non existent and that really took a strain on our relationship and in retrospect I feel really crappy about it. Why subject your self to such things, if there isn't something really wrong with your self image. I think we get lost in this "biohacking" and forget that it's not just that, all of this has a huge psychological component to it.

But anyway, if I am understanding you correctly, you are blasting and cruising now?

Actually, i am not b&c. I do 1 cycle a year of 8 weeks at most, and then maintain (cruise a bit afterwards) during summer. I do generally like how i feel on a little bit of aas, cant deny that. And i like the strength and muscle gains, in the end thats what it is all about.

And that general high on life feeling like you are a teenager, kinda feels like you are cheating your own biology, for someone like me who has low natural test at roughly 370ish ng/dl who all of a sudden has test levels of top 0.5% of young males, it really feels like i am saying f you to my crappy genetics and somehow "claiming my own little victory" hehe


And i dont feel like crap on mk. I certainly dont lose interest for life in general. In fact, i do feel more energetic and better in the beginning, when it works the most.


Its just that it completely removes my libido, although it is generally very low or not even present, i guess i am just wired that way, so really mk only further reduces it and makes it harder to be able to perform when the time comes, which then obviously leads to trying to avoid certain situations.

And its not that i am someone who wants a libido because i ama ddicted sex, quite the opposite, like i said, i pretty much generally dont have desire for sex at all, but the problem comes when, like you @Jinsun said, your complete lack of ability to be aroused which leads to inability to get hard gets in the way of your relationship, as much as we want to think how our girls really love us for who we are etc, thing is that sex is an important part of the relationship, and if you cant provide, guess whats gonna happen??


So anyway not to ramble too much, since i am running low on mk anyway and my trusted source is gone, was thinking it may be a good idea to try out gh.

And for me aas + even just mk is much better than just aas.

 

[Jinsun]

not specifically to be honest. I’ve run cjc dac with ipam and mk a few times and never noticed that. I drink a lot so piss pretty frequently anyway I guess

Then it might have been bunk peps or something. I am eagerly awaiting GH in the mail, I'll see if something similar happens with it.

Do you use a gda or what's your tactit for lowering insulin resistance? I didn't do chit. In fact, every time I pinned, I ate like crazy cuz cyc made totally hypo, and ghrp2 was also meant as an appetite inducer, heh ...

 

[Jinsun]

@saderboy80 it depends, i myself feel like it doesnt work anymore after a month of 5 on 2 off, i mean it is working for sure, but the response is nothing like the 1st 2 weeks where i get crazy pumps and glycogen retention

you can run it for as long as you like but eventually you will feel like it doesnt work as well, at that point it makes sense to cycle off and resensitize.



Actually, i am not b&c. I do 1 cycle a year of 8 weeks at most, and then maintain (cruise a bit afterwards) during summer. I do generally like how i feel on a little bit of aas, cant deny that. And i like the strength and muscle gains, in the end thats what it is all about.

And that general high on life feeling like you are a teenager, kinda feels like you are cheating your own biology, for someone like me who has low natural test at roughly 370ish ng/dl who all of a sudden has test levels of top 0.5% of young males, it really feels like i am saying f you to my crappy genetics and somehow "claiming my own little victory" hehe


And i dont feel like crap on mk. I certainly dont lose interest for life in general. In fact, i do feel more energetic and better in the beginning, when it works the most.


Its just that it completely removes my libido, although it is generally very low or not even present, i guess i am just wired that way, so really mk only further reduces it and makes it harder to be able to perform when the time comes, which then obviously leads to trying to avoid certain situations.

And its not that i am someone who wants a libido because i ama ddicted sex, quite the opposite, like i said, i pretty much generally dont have desire for sex at all, but the problem comes when, like you @Jinsun said, your complete lack of ability to be aroused which leads to inability to get hard gets in the way of your relationship, as much as we want to think how our girls really love us for who we are etc, thing is that sex is an important part of the relationship, and if you cant provide, guess whats gonna happen??


So anyway not to ramble too much, since i am running low on mk anyway and my trusted source is gone, was thinking it may be a good idea to try out gh.

And for me aas + even just mk is much better than just aas.

I don't think it's natural for people to have low libido. I am pretty convinced that low libido is a thing of depression/anxiety, underdeveloped mental self image and, off course, hormonal situation. A lack of pregnenolone is often the culprit (if discounting high estro and low free T), especially for people that cycle and mess up their hormones. Imo, a healthy person, should have a good sex drive and passion towards being with another person. I was also like this at 24, I remember. Now, 10 years later, I am completely different. I realize that when I am not in a good state in regards to libido, I am depressed, anxious, etc.

 

[Whisky]

Then it might have been bunk peps or something. I am eagerly awaiting GH in the mail, I'll see if something similar happens with it.

Do you use a gda or what's your tactit for lowering insulin resistance? I didn't do chit. In fact, every time I pinned, I ate like crazy cuz cyc made totally hypo, and ghrp2 was also meant as an appetite inducer, heh ...

I use metformin and berberine bro

 

[Hyde]

I use metformin and berberine bro

AAAAND you are religious about keeping cardio in your routine, which has to help you as well.

 

[saderboy80]

I don't think it's natural for people to have low libido. I am pretty convinced that low libido is a thing of depression/anxiety, underdeveloped mental self image and, off course, hormonal situation. A lack of pregnenolone is often the culprit (if discounting high estro and low free T), especially for people that cycle and mess up their hormones. Imo, a healthy person, should have a good sex drive and passion towards being with another person. I was also like this at 24, I remember. Now, 10 years later, I am completely different. I realize that when I am not in a good state in regards to libido, I am depressed, anxious, etc.

Any chance you’d pm me your gh source?!

 

[Whisky]

AAAAND you are religious about keeping cardio in your routine, which has to help you as well.

this is also true

 

[Jinsun]

I use metformin and berberine bro

Both huh. You think it's necessary, they kinda do the same thing ... I'll be ordering GlychoPhase from sns and I'll be doing IF most probably. Also ordered a bunch of bpc from a good source. Hope both help, I'll be using them after gyno surgery, to recover quicker.

 

[Hyde]

Both huh. You think it's necessary, they kinda do the same thing ... I'll be ordering GlychoPhase from sns and I'll be doing IF most probably. Also ordered a bunch of bpc from a good source. Hope both help, I'll be using them after gyno surgery, to recover quicker.

They both won’t be necessary for blood glucose control if you aren’t already prediabetic, but they do work via totally different pathways. And Metformin also has alleged longevity properties that @Whiskey uses it for regardless. Which are different than the cardio protective aspects of Berberine I believe.

TB500 is a great post surgery drug if you felt you wanted anything else to help btw. 2mg shot about once a week for ideally 6 weeks, basically whatever you can afford though regarding dose and duration.

 

[Jinsun]

They both won’t be necessary for blood glucose control if you aren’t already prediabetic, but they do work via totally different pathways. And Metformin also has alleged longevity properties that @Whiskey uses it for regardless. Which are different than the cardio protective aspects of Berberine I believe.

TB500 is a great post surgery drug if you felt you wanted anything else to help btw. 2mg shot about once a week for ideally 6 weeks, basically whatever you can afford though regarding dose and duration.

I totally disregarded TB ... Is it really that helpful? More so then bpc ...

 

[Hyde]

I totally disregarded TB ... Is it really that helpful? More so then bpc ...

I am under the impression that TB500 is better for soft tissue recovery, like skin and muscle healing, while BPC has the edge on tendon/ligament/joint recovery. Both will heal and lower inflammation.

TB500 is way more convenient. 1 shot a week vs 2 a day, but BPC is massively cheaper. BPC basically only needs 1x5mg vial for like 5 weeks of shots or something as I recall due to the micro doses. But if you are willing to spend another couple hundred for the best/fastest recovery possible, add the TB500.

I recovered fine from my gyno surgery years ago without either. They just help speed the process. Also, I started training legs only 10 days after, and I think that helped promote a hematoma in one pec that took months to dissipate - my advice is to rest completely for several weeks to help things recover optimally. Also, get some baggy shirts and undershirts to help hide your wraps if you don’t have any.

 

[Jinsun]

I am under the impression that TB500 is better for soft tissue recovery, like skin and muscle healing, while BPC has the edge on tendon/ligament/joint recovery. Both will heal and lower inflammation.

TB500 is way more convenient. 1 shot a week vs 2 a day, but BPC is massively cheaper. BPC basically only needs 1x5mg vial for like 5 weeks of shots or something as I recall due to the micro doses. But if you are willing to spend another couple hundred for the best/fastest recovery possible, add the TB500.

I recovered fine from my gyno surgery years ago without either. They just help speed the process. Also, I started training legs only 10 days after, and I think that helped promote a hematoma in one pec that took months to dissipate - my advice is to rest completely for several weeks to help things recover optimally. Also, get some baggy shirts and undershirts to help hide your wraps if you don’t have any.

Several week huh. I am hoping 3 to max 4. Will be using GH and bpc. Dont want to turn this thread in to a gyno thread, so this is the last one; what can you actually do in regards to movements? You think I could skate? There's lots of arms swinging and potencial falling, so I'm guessing not?

 

[Whisky]

Both huh. You think it's necessary, they kinda do the same thing ... I'll be ordering GlychoPhase from sns and I'll be doing IF most probably. Also ordered a bunch of bpc from a good source. Hope both help, I'll be using them after gyno surgery, to recover quicker.

from what I’ve seen they actually work synergistically due to the difference in mechanism. But as Hyde said, the metforim is there for me regardless (it was actually part of a cocktail that was recently shown to turn back the epigenetic clock in a human trial).

I’m a massive fan of minimising glycemic variability for general health so I do a moderate dose of both.

 

[Hyde]

Several week huh. I am hoping 3 to max 4. Will be using GH and bpc. Dont want to turn this thread in to a gyno thread, so this is the last one; what can you actually do in regards to movements? You think I could skate? There's lots of arms swinging and potencial falling, so I'm guessing not?

I was doing safety bar squats and legpress and I think training hard that soon caused issue with internal bleeding since it hadn’t healed fully yet. I wouldn’t do anything strenuous or that requires upper body. Maybe some long walks or LISS.

 

[CroLifter]

I don't think it's natural for people to have low libido. I am pretty convinced that low libido is a thing of depression/anxiety, underdeveloped mental self image and, off course, hormonal situation. A lack of pregnenolone is often the culprit (if discounting high estro and low free T), especially for people that cycle and mess up their hormones. Imo, a healthy person, should have a good sex drive and passion towards being with another person. I was also like this at 24, I remember. Now, 10 years later, I am completely different. I realize that when I am not in a good state in regards to libido, I am depressed, anxious, etc.

Passion for intimacy, spending intimate moments with a person of the opposite sex who you love is one thing.

Carnal desire for sex, that brain-genital connection, that "tingle" down there i used to get when i was younger (dont know how to describe it) is another thing - that is the one i generally lack.

For both you and me english is not our native language, so perhaps we dont understand each other 100 percent, perhaps our definitions of intimacy differ, what i think of being intimate is sth i can be with my mother, my dog etc...with anyone i have strong feelings for



Anyway, not to ramble off topic anymore, @saderboy80 how come you went 180 on us and completely changed the drug choices?

This now looks like a gaining cycle to me.

 

[Jinsun]

I was doing safety bar squats and legpress and I think training hard that soon caused issue with internal bleeding since it hadn’t healed fully yet. I wouldn’t do anything strenuous or that requires upper body. Maybe some long walks or LISS.

Liss huh ... Great, fantastic, abnormally good, ...

Tnx

 

[Jinsun]

For both you and me english is not our native language, so perhaps we dont understand each other 100 percent, perhaps our definitions of intimacy differ, what i think of being intimate is sth i can be with my mother, my dog etc...with anyone i have strong feelings for

lol reading this, I just started to hear you speak with a quasi russian accent

 

[saderboy80]

Passion for intimacy, spending intimate moments with a person of the opposite sex who you love is one thing.

Carnal desire for sex, that brain-genital connection, that "tingle" down there i used to get when i was younger (dont know how to describe it) is another thing - that is the one i generally lack.

For both you and me english is not our native language, so perhaps we dont understand each other 100 percent, perhaps our definitions of intimacy differ, what i think of being intimate is sth i can be with my mother, my dog etc...with anyone i have strong feelings for



Anyway, not to ramble off topic anymore, @saderboy80 how come you went 180 on us and completely changed the drug choices?

This now looks like a gaining cycle to me.

Well i am looking to do a competition in the future. Originally, my coach and I agreed on men’s physique class. But after some discussion we are moving up to the classic physique level. Which at most shows for my height is 205lbs.

So yes this will be a gaining cycle!

 

[Jinsun]

Well i am looking to do a competition in the future. Originally, my coach and I agreed on men’s physique class. But after some discussion we are moving up to the classic physique level. Which at most shows for my height is 205lbs.

So yes this will be a gaining cycle!

How much do you want to add?

I wouldn't spend my money on GH if I was bulking. I mean, if money is not a concern, then go ahead ... insulin resistance and all those carbs might be a problem if you don't use GDA's properly fyi.

So I actually took the time and read your thread from the start, and it seem the discussion has led into talking only about GH and peps but kinda didn't finish with your cycle discussion, so I'll weigh in my thoughts on this as well.

What @Hyde was saying is totally legit and is the same thing anybody, who is actually knowledgeable in this field of aas and training/muscle building, would do the same. So, your coach advising you to do this cycle, isn't a good thing. It's a signifier and it's signifying only negative meanings about your coach: he doesn't really understand aas (which I actually kinda doubt), he doesn't really care 100% about you, so he is just giving you a cycle he got the impression from you that you wanted, he just want's to put you on something that you'll feel extra good on and will be "thanks coach, this is great, fu*k yeah", etc ... See what I mean.

If your body can utilize/needs 3500 calories and you're eating 6000, you'll just get fat and the rest will burn off via thermogenesis. You're just throwing money away.

You don't need 3 compounds, but if you wish to then use a test derivate, a dht and an progestin. But using just two compounds is what I would do. Now, you are saying you'll be off for only 8 weeks? Man, you need at least 4 months to reach some sort of homeostasis and the continue it for a bit more time. Doing so many cycles is really really bad. It fu*ks you up mentally and you'll end up on trt really soon.

Fyi primo is really not that expensive anymore. Lot's of ugls that produce good primo. The 3 you got in your pm are also good for primo.

So I would definitely go with test at 750mg, and in your case, since you want to put on a lot of size, maybe DHB at 500. Hoping you don't get bad pip. Or primo at 800 - 1000. I would also end with an oral. With this combo it would be anadrol and not another dht. This are high doses for you imo, they are on the line of diminishing returns but you'll enjoy the cycle very much.

 

[Jinsun]

Do not use EQ, you are a natty, it doesn't make sense. You need at least an 16 week cycle with EQ if not a 20 week one. It has a half life of 14 days, so you need to be off of it for 5 x 14 days in order for pct to properly start. You can maybe get away with 6 weeks, depends on the dosage. The fact that your coach recommended this to you for a 12 week cycle AND is thinking of getting you on another cycle just 8 weeks after your last pin of aas is also VERY VERY careless and moronic.

 

[Jinsun]

Do not use EQ, you are a natty, it doesn't make sense. You need at least an 16 week cycle with EQ if not a 20 week one. It has a half life of 14 days, so you need to be off of it for 5 x 14 days in order for pct to properly start. You can maybe get away with 4 weeks, depends on the dosage. The fact that your coach recommended this to you for a 12 week cycle AND is thinking of getting you on another cycle just 8 weeks after your last pin of aas is also VERY VERY careless and moronic.

By natty I meant to say you don't b/c : )

 

[Hyde]

By natty I meant to say you don't b/c : )

That’s all it takes to be natty these days

 

[saderboy80]

How much do you want to add?

I wouldn't spend my money on GH if I was bulking. I mean, if money is not a concern, then go ahead ... insulin resistance and all those carbs might be a problem if you don't use GDA's properly fyi.

So I actually took the time and read your thread from the start, and it seem the discussion has led into talking only about GH and peps but kinda didn't finish with your cycle discussion, so I'll weigh in my thoughts on this as well.

What @Hyde was saying is totally legit and is the same thing anybody, who is actually knowledgeable in this field of aas and training/muscle building, would do the same. So, your coach advising you to do this cycle, isn't a good thing. It's a signifier and it's signifying only negative meanings about your coach: he doesn't really understand aas (which I actually kinda doubt), he doesn't really care 100% about you, so he is just giving you a cycle he got the impression from you that you wanted, he just want's to put you on something that you'll feel extra good on and will be "thanks coach, this is great, fu*k yeah", etc ... See what I mean.

If your body can utilize/needs 3500 calories and you're eating 6000, you'll just get fat and the rest will burn off via thermogenesis. You're just throwing money away.

You don't need 3 compounds, but if you wish to then use a test derivate, a dht and an progestin. But using just two compounds is what I would do. Now, you are saying you'll be off for only 8 weeks? Man, you need at least 4 months to reach some sort of homeostasis and the continue it for a bit more time. Doing so many cycles is really really bad. It fu*ks you up mentally and you'll end up on trt really soon.

Fyi primo is really not that expensive anymore. Lot's of ugls that produce good primo. The 3 you got in your pm are also good for primo.

So I would definitely go with test at 750mg, and in your case, since you want to put on a lot of size, maybe DHB at 500. Hoping you don't get bad pip. Or primo at 800 - 1000. I would also end with an oral. With this combo it would be anadrol and not another dht. This are high doses for you imo, they are on the line of diminishing returns but you'll enjoy the cycle very much.

Well realistically I’d like to gain 25lbs of muscle (this will take a few years I’d guess) and then cut down from there.
No man, my coach had been great and very meticulous with everything! He has a few NPC champions, so I trust him.

Why are you against EQ?

 

[saderboy80]

How much do you want to add?

I wouldn't spend my money on GH if I was bulking. I mean, if money is not a concern, then go ahead ... insulin resistance and all those carbs might be a problem if you don't use GDA's properly fyi.

So I actually took the time and read your thread from the start, and it seem the discussion has led into talking only about GH and peps but kinda didn't finish with your cycle discussion, so I'll weigh in my thoughts on this as well.

What @Hyde was saying is totally legit and is the same thing anybody, who is actually knowledgeable in this field of aas and training/muscle building, would do the same. So, your coach advising you to do this cycle, isn't a good thing. It's a signifier and it's signifying only negative meanings about your coach: he doesn't really understand aas (which I actually kinda doubt), he doesn't really care 100% about you, so he is just giving you a cycle he got the impression from you that you wanted, he just want's to put you on something that you'll feel extra good on and will be "thanks coach, this is great, fu*k yeah", etc ... See what I mean.

If your body can utilize/needs 3500 calories and you're eating 6000, you'll just get fat and the rest will burn off via thermogenesis. You're just throwing money away.

You don't need 3 compounds, but if you wish to then use a test derivate, a dht and an progestin. But using just two compounds is what I would do. Now, you are saying you'll be off for only 8 weeks? Man, you need at least 4 months to reach some sort of homeostasis and the continue it for a bit more time. Doing so many cycles is really really bad. It fu*ks you up mentally and you'll end up on trt really soon.

Fyi primo is really not that expensive anymore. Lot's of ugls that produce good primo. The 3 you got in your pm are also good for primo.

So I would definitely go with test at 750mg, and in your case, since you want to put on a lot of size, maybe DHB at 500. Hoping you don't get bad pip. Or primo at 800 - 1000. I would also end with an oral. With this combo it would be anadrol and not another dht. This are high doses for you imo, they are on the line of diminishing returns but you'll enjoy the cycle very much.

Well realistically I’d like to gain 25lbs of muscle and then cut down from there.
No man, my coach had been great and very meticulous with everything! He has a few NPC champions, so I trust him.

Why are you against EQ?

 

[Jinsun]

Why are you against EQ?

Have you read what I wrote? I explained exactly why it's a bad idea and doesn't make sense in post 127.

 

[Jinsun]

That’s all it takes to be natty these days

Half natty by internets standards XD

 

[saderboy80]

Have you read what I wrote? I explained exactly why it's a bad idea and doesn't make sense in post 127.

I just re-read it. So you are saying EQ for 12 weeks is useless?

What about front loading some EQ?

 

[Jinsun]

I just re-read it. So you are saying EQ for 12 weeks is useless?

What about front loading some EQ?

Again, it takes 5 half lifes for any given substance to completely clear your system. Now, depending on the dose, the blood serum concentration of the substance might be low enough quicker - low enough in order to start PCT that is. So if at week 12 of the cycle you have 1000mg's of EQ in you and you stop pining at that mark, EQ levels will start to drop in this fassion:

- After 2 weeks: 500mg
- After 4 weeks: 250mg
- After 6 weeks: 125mg
- After 8 weeks: 67,5mg
- After 10 weeks: 33,75mg

So this means you start PCT at week 22 of the cycle.

This is just math, in reality it will probably be around zero mg at week 8. But if you are a slow metaboliser, that might not be the case. PCT will start when EQ mg's go below 50 and when they are close to zero it's when you'll truly be in PCT.

Do you understand now why EQ is not a good idea? Honestly, I hope you understand.

 

[Jinsun]

This is just really bad advice on behalf of your coach. And this is a common problem with coaches. It doesn't matter if he has NPC wins ... He is careless with your programming.

 

[CroLifter]

This is just really bad advice on behalf of your coach. And this is a common problem with coaches. It doesn't matter if he has NPC wins ... He is careless with your programming.

Hence why I REALLY like short esters alongside medium length test ester (enanthate) as a base.

If my cycle is 8 weeks i dont want to wait 4-6 weeks for sth to show results damn it!

I only used acetate ester and I really liked it. But i am sure propionate and phenylpropionate are also rapid.

 

[Jinsun]

Hence why I REALLY like short esters alongside medium length test ester (enanthate) as a base.

If my cycle is 8 weeks i dont want to wait 4-6 weeks for sth to show results damn it!

I only used acetate ester and I really liked it. But i am sure propionate and phenylpropionate are also rapid.

I just use e for the majority of the cycle and then switch to p for the last weeks.

 

[UNX]

I just use e for the majority of the cycle and then switch to p for the last weeks.

This is the ideal for me too, but prop hurts and finding test ace or pp is impossible. I even thought about ending with trest ace.

 

[saderboy80]

Again, it takes 5 half lifes for any given substance to completely clear your system. Now, depending on the dose, the blood serum concentration of the substance might be low enough quicker - low enough in order to start PCT that is. So if at week 12 of the cycle you have 1000mg's of EQ in you and you stop pining at that mark, EQ levels will start to drop in this fassion:

- After 2 weeks: 500mg
- After 4 weeks: 250mg
- After 6 weeks: 125mg
- After 8 weeks: 67,5mg
- After 10 weeks: 33,75mg

So this means you start PCT at week 22 of the cycle.

This is just math, in reality it will probably be around zero mg at week 8. But if you are a slow metaboliser, that might not be the case. PCT will start when EQ mg's go below 50 and when they are close to zero it's when you'll truly be in PCT.

Do you understand now why EQ is not a good idea? Honestly, I hope you understand.

Yes, I do understand. Thank-you for the explanation.
So since I would be on test, deca, eq. Would I still await the PcT for the longest acting compound to have 5 half lives?

 

[saderboy80]

This is just really bad advice on behalf of your coach. And this is a common problem with coaches. It doesn't matter if he has NPC wins ... He is careless with your programming.

I understand what you are saying, but he is a pretty meticulous coach. With regards to diet, training cardio and supplements.

He does natty transformations and then has had guys compete in NPC competitions.

Personally, I don’t think he is making a bad choice. I mean I did ask him for a bulking cycle.

 

[Jinsun]

I understand what you are saying, but he is a pretty meticulous coach. With regards to diet, training cardio and supplements.

He does natty transformations and then has had guys compete in NPC competitions.

Personally, I don’t think he is making a bad choice. I mean I did ask him for a bulking cycle.

Now you're starting to sound like a broken record.

I really took the time and tried to explain things to you. And, in contrast to your coach, I am doing this for free. Maybe I should start charging you in order for you to start taking me seriously, and actually giving me the respect by reading my comments and giving them some thought.

 

[saderboy80]

Now you're starting to sound like a broken record.

I really took the time and tried to explain things to you. And, in contrast to your coach, I am doing this for free. Maybe I should start charging you in order for you to start taking me seriously, and actually giving me the respect by reading my comments and giving them some thought.

I really am taking your advice to heart and have been bouncing ideas off my coach that I’ve learned here on AM.

So from what I’ve gathered from your opinion. You would rather see a test and DHB cycle or test and primo cycle?

Instead of test, dec and eq.

Then a longer break between cycles?

So maybe not competing this year (2021) but building a solid frame to compete for in the future.

 

[Jinsun]

I really am taking your advice to heart and have been bouncing ideas off my coach that I’ve learned here on AM.

So from what I’ve gathered from your opinion. You would rather see a test and DHB cycle or test and primo cycle?

Instead of test, dec and eq.

Then a longer break between cycles?

So maybe not competing this year (2021) but building a solid frame to compete for in the future.

You have a coach that you are paying and that you think is great; why are you asking us, ask him.

 

[Hyde]

I really am taking your advice to heart and have been bouncing ideas off my coach that I’ve learned here on AM.

So from what I’ve gathered from your opinion. You would rather see a test and DHB cycle or test and primo cycle?

Instead of test, dec and eq.

Then a longer break between cycles?

So maybe not competing this year (2021) but building a solid frame to compete for in the future.

Or even test and Deca. Literally if you just removed the EQ from your coach’s suggested stack it would be a viable from both suggested milligram and for PCT purposes.

Eq just has a particularly long half life that makes it hard to use if you don’t cruise. You can only take it for a little while before you would need to stop the shots to let it clear in time for PCT.

 

[Whisky]

I just use e for the majority of the cycle and then switch to p for the last weeks.

this is exactly what I say. The point about the half life is missed so often (that other thread with the guy doing a 10 week cycle on sust before pct, I said the same thing over and over to him), you want to finish your last pin and clear the esters as fast as possible so your body can start natural production as fast as possible, reducing the amount of time you have a shitty hormone situation (which is when you lose muscle and gain fat).

long esters should only be used for blast and cruise

 

[saderboy80]

You have a coach that you are paying and that you think is great; why are you asking us, ask him.

I am asking him but I came to AM to get others opinions and to learn a little bit up running multiple injectables at once. As I have only run test E and oral cycle so far.

The consensus is that some people agree with EQ and some people disagree and say it isn’t a good compound do to the long half life.

 

[trumac]

I am asking him but I came to AM to get others opinions and to learn a little bit up running multiple injectables at once. As I have only run test E and oral cycle so far.

The consensus is that some people agree with EQ and some people disagree and say it isn’t a good compound do to the long half life.

There is nothing wrong with the compound itself. I love EQ. But I’m on TRT so I don’t need to worry about PCT and half lives. If you aren’t then the half life is simply too long for it to really be worth using for you. Some people even say Deca has too long of a half life if you aren’t blasting and cruising or on TRT. If you are doing a shorter cycle and need to PCT why not consider a short ester test and npp? Same compounds but will both act quicker and clear quicker.

 

[saderboy80]

There is nothing wrong with the compound itself. I love EQ. But I’m on TRT so I don’t need to worry about PCT and half lives. If you aren’t then the half life is simply too long for it to really be worth using for you. Some people even say Deca has too long of a half life if you aren’t blasting and cruising or on TRT. If you are doing a shorter cycle and need to PCT why not consider a short ester test and npp? Same compounds but will both act quicker and clear quicker.

So do you think test E for 12 weeks isn’t long enough?

 

[saderboy80]

There is nothing wrong with the compound itself. I love EQ. But I’m on TRT so I don’t need to worry about PCT and half lives. If you aren’t then the half life is simply too long for it to really be worth using for you. Some people even say Deca has too long of a half life if you aren’t blasting and cruising or on TRT. If you are doing a shorter cycle and need to PCT why not consider a short ester test and npp? Same compounds but will both act quicker and clear quicker.

So do you think test E for 12 weeks isn’t long enough?