New Experimental Approach to IGF Log

[dertynasty]

Every time I begin to read different threads on any number of boards they all seem to have one thing in common which is for sure; they all have people who are consistently arguing over whether or not IGF-1 (LR3 form) produces obvious, visual, localized, spot growth. This widely debated subject all over boards got me thinking…Since people are using large amounts everyday and seeing gains which halt after a month or so (due to whatever reason you may wish to believe) , and others are using moderate doses and getting the same effects but still with a diminishing effect after about a month or so, and then there are the people who claim to be using very small amounts (10-20 mcg/day) and are STILL getting results; I started to put take pieces from every side of the spectrum and put them together.

…now on to the good stuff

I figure since I would like believe in the effects of localized growth, I would begin my first experiment based on these theories. Since I am training HST style, (www.hypertrophy-specific.com) and hitting every body part 3x a week, those will be the days that I will be pinning. Also I will only be pinning IMMEDIATELY post workout (as in 2 minutes after my last set, in my car).

I plan to run 20mcg post workout split bilaterally, alternating between Bis/Tris/Delts/Upper Pecs. As I begin to assess my progress, I may bump to 40 mcg which I would then be splitting up quadrilaterally between two separate muscle groups out of the five listed.

My training/pinning schedule will look like this:

Monday.... Wednesday ....Friday...... Monday ........Wed.-Fri
10mcg ........10 mcg ..........10mcg .......10 mcg...... Repeat from Bi’s
each........... each ..............each .........each
Bicep ..........Tricep ........lateral delt....... Pec

Once again if need be, I will up it to 40 mcg and the doses will be as if I was doing Monday and Wednesday together.

Goals:
My goals are to judge the effectiveness of a low dose of 1mg of IGF-1 shot over a 4-month period, immediately after training.

I am hoping for as much localized growth as possible with as little systemic uptake as possible. I hope to achieve this by only shooting on days in which I lift with a small dose IMMEDIATELY after training ….effectively testing the theory which claims of extreme igf-1 receptor uptake in muscles following an induced mechanical muscle trauma.

……….Anyways I started my IGF today and should have a very detailed log for you beginning tomorrow. I would write it now, but seeing that is it midnight and I still have a paper due tomorrow, I decided tomorrow would be a better time and place. :study:
I am sure there are a few things I left out that I wanted to say, but I’ll just add them tomorrow. Later guys!

 

[Ronin13]

This is great! Best of luck. Very interesting approach. I am looking forward to your results as I have just received my 2 mls of IGF and was debating on the exact process myself.

 

[idunk42]

Good luck bro, and just IM me if you got any questions. I'll be following your log and good luck man.:thumbsup:

 

[DocChronic]

Good luck. Subscribed......

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Subscribed...good luck nasty one!

 

[dertynasty]

Day 1

So its day one.
As I sit anxiously waiting for the mailman to bring my pins and my NaCl, I wonder if hes even going to show up with it today and then my whole experiment would need to be postponed a week or it would be thrown off schedule. So once I do receive it, I nervously rip everything open and start loading my pin. (side note: researchlabsupply.com got my supplies to me from florida across the country to California in 3 days, fukkin amazing customer service as well)

As I load my pin to the second tick, I cant seem to get this damn bubble out of there taking up about an IU of space… so after pushing the igf in and back out of the vial a few times its gone. As I take it out and I am about to draw up the NaCl I realize there is something off about this pin. I count the ticks to 10 and there is 5!! So each tick is 20 mcg and I had 40 loaded. Push the pin back in and get rid of the iu and draw up to the 20 tick mark with NaCl.

At this point I have 20 ius @ 20 mcg. And im off to the gym

As I lift I end with calves, however I wanted to shoot into tri’s so I went back and did one last hard set of tri’s and literally RAN out of the gym so I could pin. As I get in my car, I really couldn’t bring myself to inject right there all sweaty and nasty and in the MIDDLE of fukkin people EVERYWHERE. So I speed over to my buddies store which was about 5 mins away and I go into his restroom with my stuff so I can git er’ doneee.

Im calling for him to come back so he can watch or whatever ( I was kind of nervous I wont lie) but he was caught up with two of the biggest morons I have ever heard speak in real life. They kept telling him how they ran EQUIPOISON and DEKKA-D from Legal Roids.com or whatever. Just a bunch of other ridiculous bb.com-style questions and one of them was telling him about their experience with a company that “sent them 10 bottles of a liquid that you rub on before a show and it makes your arms look freaky huge”. These FUKKIN KIDS WERE RUBBING SYNTHOL ON THEMSELVES THINKING THERE WERE GETTING JACKED… this is when I couldn’t take it anymore. I sort of whisted for him to come back but these jocko-homo’s wouldn’t let him, go so I finally manned up and locked myself in the bathroom.

At this point I knew I had failed with my goal. It had been about 30 mins since my last tricep set and my pump was starting to fade. I knew where I went wrong but I accepted it and pinned both tris without any feeling at all.

I walked out and grabbed an “XXL EXTREME get-huge-now-while-you-down-these-1000-calories-800-of-them-from-shiity carbs-and-highfructose corn syrup.”

The only reason I drank this was because I wasn’t able to go shopping yesterday and buy all of my groceries I needed for my diet and this made me crash HARD. I thought I was going hypo so I got nervous and tried to eat some oats but this shake had totally made me sick to my stomach to where I couldn’t eat for 2 hours no matter how hard I tried. I eventually had the shiits the rest of the night but still got my PPWO meal and prebed meal in before the night was done.

That’s basically it…. I felt very weird all night. It was a mix of me being abnormally tired, sick to my stomach, crashed out from the huge spike, and this big time placeabo effect I couldn’t get out of my head. I didn’t really feel any sides however my middle finger and ring finger on my left hand started to hurt for like 20 mins (which I don’t know what was from), and my tri’s were sore for about 3 hours post injection.

Anyways guys since this is going to be a long thread I will most likely only be giving an update every Friday once a week which will entail stats/diet/gains/pics (possibly) and they will not be as long as this 1st post… unless you want them to be lol. Either way you guys will be on the DL on whats goin down. Thanks for all of your support!

Ps… my BG level was 99 when I tested it 2 hours post injection. It is normally 117.

 

[dertynasty]

*Just a little update*

Woke up today feeling fine, took a 3 hour nap today :yawn:and I can never sleep more than an hour during the day. Also all day I have been nonstop starving... It actually kind of blows, I will have just eaten a big meal and about 30 mins later my stomach is growling again and I sit there like :wtf: I did not think I would experience the hunger issues from IGF especially after last night and also due to the fact that i am a pretty low dose. Either way, I guess I'm a believer.

 

[Rage (SoCal)]

Awesome log so far Derty, good luck with this experiment. Hopefully this will help answer some of the IGF-1 questions and predictions, as well as spark some other interest from individuals willing to run a similar experiment if this run is successful. Best of luck.

 

[Ronn38]

Derty,

I know you've already bought your pins, but you may want to consider using 30 IU (3/10 cc) slin pins. I tried for a week with the 100IU (1cc) pins and just got fed up trying to work with it, so I switched to 30IU pins. I reconstitute my IGF @ 2 ml of AA to 1 MG of IGF--thus 4 clicks on a 3/10 slin pin is 20mgc. MUCH easier to read, dose and knock the air bubble out of (though I usually keep a small bubble, roll it to the back of the pin and use it to force the last bit of IGF out of the barrel—I found mixing with BW likewise troublsome).

Excellent design to your IGF protocol by the way--I'm following with great interest.

Ronn

 

[dertynasty]

I agree with you ron. The 100-iu pins are annoying to dose with, it just feels much more inaccurate. I will email reasearchlab right now and see if they will replace my 1cc pins with the 3/10s's however I will still probably have to use them this week. When I draw up the igf its only to the 1st tick which is 20mcg, so in reality its not that hard to dose, I just dont know if it is as accurate.

 

[Grunt76]

Very interesting log man. One comment: fructose is super-low GI. You would need something higher in GI to counteract the hypoglycemia-inducing effect of IGF-1. Dextrose and plain old sugar are good, along with lower-GI complex carbs for gradual release and proper maintenance of glycemia.

 

[dertynasty]

Day 2

So grunt are you saying to go with a dex/oats/pro shake? If so what do you think the ratios should be. Not a big fan of the crazy sweetness of dex but I'm willing to listen.
***********************************************************************************
I knew I said I wasnt going to update until Friday, but I figured what the hell why not right?

Anyways here it is exam week and I have an unbelievable amount of make up work to do so these past few days have been a little off on the diet. Nothing too bad, as I have messed up as minor as I did prior to this and have never really seen any effects.

Soo…

Today started out ok, something is definitely different about my sleep at night. Its as if I have so much on my mind and I cant really fall asleep, but when I do I sleep fairly better. At the end of my workout I hit my bis pretty intensely and ran out to my car and pinned both biceps. I was surprised how I didn’t even feel it once again, and I got an instant pump in my forarms and bis within a matter of seconds post injection. I downed a 2 cup grapejuice/3 scoop ON whey / 1 scoop SNS creatine shake 2 mins later as I was driving home and got almost instantly full in my stomach again. I was able to drink about half of it and it took about 45 mins to finish the rest because I felt so full and disgusted of food. I was soooo full for about 2 hours after then threw some chicken on and made pasta.

While that was cooking I drank a scoop of whey with some skim milk because I hadn’t eaten in 2 hours and knew I should even though my stomach really didn’t want me to. In the middle of me eating my ppwo meal which was about 3.5 - 4 hours after I lifted, I began to feel really weird and weak. I tested my BG level and it was 67. I got nervous and finished the little bit of pasta and chicken I had left and tested my BG level again 20 mins later to the minute, and it read 119. Im totally confused and unsure whats going on so maybe you guys can help me out on this one. Anyways I finished my ppwo meal about 30 mins ago now, and now the hunger I was feeling yesterday is kicking in. IM FREAKIN STARVING right now.

So that’s about it… tris look ever so slightly different but it could be in my head (prolly is) however 1 thing that isn’t in my head is the bloat. Im definitely bloated a tad in my face and a lot in my stomach area. I hope this is bloat because I don’t know how I could store fat that quickly. Havent really experienced anything other that so far. Strength is down, (from training hst) but I will let you guys know if I get the crazy hunger that I had yesterday again tomorrow. Exam study time… later!

 

[Grunt76]

Grape juice & whay are quick absorbing, good postworkout food with IGF-1. The only problem I see is that you are not having any slower-digesting carbs at the same time of right afterward. So you do well with the initial push towards hypoglycemia from the IGF-1, but you have nothing holding it off after. 4 hours is a LONG-ass time, man. So by the time you're cooking/eating the next meal, you're already hypo, that doesn't surprise me even a little. Pasta takes a while to digest, so between the time you're eating it and the time the carbs make it to your bloodstream is when you go hypo. Try having some slower carbs with the postworkout or just after, or move the ppwo meal a couple hours earlier... That should work. Remember, regular carb feeding is key. Not amount, but regularity.

Good log, BTW.

 

[dertynasty]

*Just another little update*

Finally finished with classes this week so What better to do then give a little update since I have a few things to say.

So when i wake up this morning I decided to take my waist measurement just for the hell of it. To my suprise it was ~.5 inches lower then what it was 2 weeks ago (32.5' to 32') when i WASNT bulking. ok???? lol Either way I can barely see my abs and noticed that im losing definition in like my hands? wtf right? I guess the general concensus would be that I'm holding a good amount of subcutaneous water. This is odd as it has only been 5 days on, but I'm thinking that I could be holding water like people do with GH which eventually falls off with time.

Either way I am pretty sure that it isnt fat because of the waist decrease. Also the hunger is back up again. It seems to disapear immediately after injection for the rest of the night, but then the next day starts low and gradually gets greater and greater as the day goes on. Other than that though, so significant changes yet . I am going to take my measurements on everything tomorrow(Yes i know i should have then them monday) and will be posting them weekly so I track any growth. Thatssssss allll folksssssssss


Edit: Anways its later in the day now; I just took a nap, and when I woke up, I felt totally refreshed as if i had slept all night. This is unusual because when I usually take naps I wake up feeling VERY groggy and tired, however not this time. hmmmmmm :think: My hunger has also subsided quite a bit, definately elevated... but nothing crazy anymore.

 

[myfathersboy]

Nice log...good luck nailing down the details. We'll be watching!!

 

[dertynasty]

Day 3

Ok today I would classify as a WOW day. All I can fukkin say is wow.

Starts off good. I wake up after my first night of a full deep sleep where I dont wake up the whole night. I havent done this in a long time, and when I woke up I felt great and not tired at all.

Anyways after a long day of running errands and catching up on old make work for class I decide to hit the gym (pin in hand). I noticed i was looking a little bit different in my clothes, nothing outragous but something very subtle I could not recognize. I was getting some good pumps in the gym despite the fact that im not on anything, cept igf. I worked chest last then immediately ran out to my car as usual.

This is where it pretty much gets shot to shiit, literally.

I rip off my shirt and try to adjust all the mirrors in my car so I could hit the very upper part of my chest but the mirror idea was not workin too well at all. I say fucck it, grab the pin, tuck my head in so i can see the uppermost part of my pec, and go for it. Uh wtf? not going in... harder, harderrrrrr, harderrrrrr, *POP* thereee we go. Yeah girl nice and easy. Then out of no where I hit something that hurts pretty damn bad and wouldnt you have guessed it, at the SAME DAMN TIME SOME LADY AND HER KID PULL UP RIGHT BESIDE ME. Not that it was bad enough that she was right beside me, but they were in an escalade and could see EVERYTHING in my car, including me with a damn pin in my chest.

It was like i was looking at a deer caught in my headlights. This Bltch was looking directly at me, eyes wide open, mouth dropped:jaw:and all i could was hope I wasnt in a vein. "fuuck it" I say to myself and turn back and look at my pec and guess what happens next boys and girls? I aspirate half a fukkin syringe full o' blood.

At this point I'm totally trippin out, I slam the car in reverse and get the hell out of there, blood dripping down my chest and all. I then cruise around the stripmall parking lot and find a nice looking spot sandwitched between a BMW and a huge dumpster. As I am about to put the pin in and try for round too, Pedro (his shirt says) the trashman? opens the dumpster door and walks right by my car. WHAT THE F*CKING F*CK IS THIS SH*T!!??? I peaced out of there as fast as that fool would have ran if he saw immigration coming. I cruise the neighborhood for 5 mins and I'm totally raging by now because this is getting fvcking ridiculous. Cant a man pin in peace?

I pull up in front of some dudes house, I drop my seat, stick that dull ass pin in (yes it hurt like shiit) and got it over with. So the moral of this crazy/weird/lame/probably boring story is that I will now be pinning in the crapper at the gym. The car is so sketch and just basically isnt worth the hassle; especially if I am trying to pin directly after my last set.

So far, I am starting to see my body take on a tiny different shape or look. I have some veins slowly starting to show through now even though I AM hold a bit of subq water. Other than that no strength yet, but I will continue to update when necessary and try to keep you guys in the know as best as I can. Have a goooood weekend!!!!

 

[xxtruxx1]

Invest in 5% limo tints. I have these on my car. No one sees inside

 

[idunk42]

Holy sh1t dude!!! Thats some crazy stuff. Wow, I've never gone through anything like that, and hopefully I never will. Sorry to hear that everything got so fvcked up today, but glad to see that your seeing some results.

 

[BigCasino]

Re: Day 3

Dertynasty,

Great log & great storying telling! Keep it coming!

 

[kwyckemynd00]

LOL...damn dude...that's funny Crzy bastard...i'd not do it in my car man, i'd just take a bag and do it in the bathroom if i were u dude. at least nobody can see you.

Oh, and if it was hard to push in like that, you probably nailed an artery

 

[Nullifidian]

Btw, IGF1 can be pinned IV without damage. There really isn't a need to aspirate unless you are specifically attempting to get spot growth.

 

[Grunt76]

Btw, IGF1 can be pinned IV without damage. There really isn't a need to aspirate unless you are specifically attempting to get spot growth.

WTF man? Are you saying he should not care about air bubbles in the veins? While it wouldn't kill him outright, air in veins is NEVER a good idea. ALWAYS ASPIRATE WHENEVER PUTTING A NEEDLE IN YOUR BODY.

Your post is just plain bad advice man. I'm negging you for this.

 

[dertynasty]

Well bro if you would have read the first post in the log you would have been able to tell what I was attemping to achieve.

I know where you got the info about the IV IGF and honestly i would never run it like that.

IGF + IV = :nono: nuff said

 

[dertynasty]

Also I really would not like the feeling of AA in my veins as well as the unknown insulin spike I may get which may be hard to control. Once again If you read you would be able to tell that I was looking for as little systemic uptake as possible.

 

[Nullifidian]

WTF man? Are you saying he should not care about air bubbles in the veins? While it wouldn't kill him outright, air in veins is NEVER a good idea. ALWAYS ASPIRATE WHENEVER PUTTING A NEEDLE IN YOUR BODY.

Your post is just plain bad advice man. I'm negging you for this.

You shouldn't have any air in your pin whether pinning IM, IV, or subq. So no of course I'm not telling him to pin air or that it is ok to pin air. Aspiration does not remove air, aspiration is pulling back on the syringe once you stick it in to ensure you are not in a vein. So I don't understand your concern here.

What I was saying is that:

1) You can in fact administer IGF1 IV safely.
2) AA and water-based intejctables are acceptable carriers for IV use though water is ideal

As such, it would not be the end of the world if he injected into a vein. The IGF1 would still work, it would just be purely systemic. It would also work more rapidly.

Well bro if you would have read the first post in the log you would have been able to tell what I was attemping to achieve.

I guess I misunderstood is all. I was thinking you were just trying to see if lower dosage allowed for prolonged use without losing efficacy. i.e. you are testing Palumbo's theory on IGF1 usage.

Upon rereading your first post, I realise I missed this senstence towards the end:

I am hoping for as much localized growth as possible with as little systemic uptake as possible. I hope to achieve this by only shooting on days in which I lift with a small dose IMMEDIATELY after training

So for that I appologize.

Btw it should be noted that the time your IGF1 is left unrefridgerated will have an effect on efficacy because it degrades rather quickly when exposed to high temps once reconstituted. Not sure how you are transporting your IGF1 to the gym; what kind of cold storage you are using and how effectvie it is.

Whenever I used IGF1 in the past, I always took it straight from the fridge, drew the IGF1, drew extra BAC water, pinned, then immediately put the IGF1 back in the fridge so as to minimize time out of the fridge.

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

I'd like to jump in here for a second and throw some of my experience at you all in regards to localized pinning and growth. No hijacking, I promise.

Now I dont know what the end result will be or if my results will deminish post cycle (which is only 25 days long before jumping into a AAS cycle - 15 days left), but I pin IM directly into the Shoulders, Biceps, and Triceps. I have noticed a dramatic increase in size in less than 2wks. 6lbs up as of this monring; from 170.0lbs to 176.0lbs even while calorie deficient most days thus far.

I dont know that this has any effect, but I have been using loads of BCAA and simple carbs (dex, malto, & that waxy shish) PWO after pinning. I dont have any number to report because I didnt take any before I started this cycle (it was my first experience and I was eger to get started), but visually there is a significantly noticable increase in these regions pinned. Friends are quick to point this out, as are my own eyes in the mirror. Shoulders and Traps (which is odd) are growing very nicely. Biceps are next up, and comming in last would be my Triceps.

I never expected to see such growth from a non hormonal compound (non AAS cycle so to speak). So far, despite the fact that I have been sick and minimal gym time has been envolved, I HAVE seen noticable localized growth from IGF. Just my experience thus far.

Carry on Derty - Nice log BTW!!
Sprt

 

[dertynasty]

week 2 : Day 4

Strength is slowly increasing mainly due to the HST program I am following.

Weight is about the same. Maybe up a lb from the food but this fluctuated from day to day by 1-4 lbs anyways.

Not seeing ANYTHING in terms of size yet. I am seeing minor vascularity showing up with some minor pumps throughout the day. I am not getting any hunger and do not go hypo whatsover at anytime anymore. I also dont feel like I look any different besides the minor vains and i think the first few days when i thought i was growing was a placebo

Also I am still retaining water which is making me look soft.

It is very hard to run this low of a dose without getting impatient. I know I should not expect any gear like gains but I am seeing much better results from people running 40 mcg/day.

I will continue to think about upping it before I do, but I am just letting you know that I really dont feel it anymore like I did the 1st couple days and I would really like to up it but i dont want to throw the log off.

Blah well anyways thats all for tonight. Sorry for the crappy post.

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

Re: week 2 : Day 4

Strength is slowly increasing mainly due to the HST program I am following.

Weight is about the same. Maybe up a lb from the food but this fluctuated from day to day by 1-4 lbs anyways.

Not seeing ANYTHING in terms of size yet. I am seeing minor vascularity showing up with some minor pumps throughout the day. I am not getting any hunger and do not go hypo whatsover at anytime anymore. I also dont feel like I look any different besides the minor vains and i think the first few days when i thought i was growing was a placebo

Also I am still retaining water which is making me look soft.

It is very hard to run this low of a dose without getting impatient. I know I should not expect any gear like gains but I am seeing much better results from people running 40 mcg/day.

I will continue to think about upping it before I do, but I am just letting you know that I really dont feel it anymore like I did the 1st couple days and I would really like to up it but i dont want to throw the log off.

Blah well anyways thats all for tonight. Sorry for the crappy post.

If I remember correctly you said your doing 10mcg ED? Am I right? Why so low? Are you pinning 2x daily or just once? And your pinning locally right?

I'll have to go back and look ... if so, this is certainly an interesting cycle. How long is it again?

I couldn't imagine expecting much from such a low dose everday, even if localized pinning was going on. I'm hitting only the shoulder, biceps, and triceps and running the standard first timer dose (40mcg give or take 10mcg ED). lol, I have the wrong pins so judging the dose is sometimes hard to do (I have 1cc pins instead of 1/2cc pins - live and learn). As stated in my previous post, though, I'm seeing decent results thus far; AAS like gains ... well kinda.

Let me ask, you said something about retaining water? Does IGF cause water retention? I noticed a definite increase in the size of my traps, similar to the increase I see when on cycle (my traps get huge on cycle I believe due to excess water retention in the muscle belly). I wasn't sure if this was water retention, though, or a definite grow increase.

Anyhow derty ... Hit me up on your trillian. I'm on. Your still away though.

Halla,
Sprt

 

[dertynasty]

Haha Im back now Sprt...
Anyways Im running 20mcg post workout on the days I lift; which is monday, wed, fri. 10 mcg each muscle.
Either way 20 mcg should still be a good dosage since the fact is that im running it for what.... 4 months? Thats how long the 1mg will last me at 3x a week. Also the water retention was something I read about other users having and the fact that people bloat on gh at first as well gives me the idea that it could possibly from the IGF increase from the injections.

But we will see... I decided i will give it 1 month.. If I am happy I stay at 20mcg dosing how I am. If I am not, then I will change it.

Keepin it simple

 

[jminis]

That's karma telling you to send you IGF my way

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

That's karma telling you to send you IGF my way

lol, I'll take some as well. Good call jminis, lol j/k.

No, I talked to derty last night for a while, and he is actually doing some interesting stuff in regards to this Igf. I just think he needs to up his dose after this first month. 20mcg on WO days and 0mcg on none work out days. I honestly think he will see the results he's after with a little higher dose; 40mcg ED on WO days & 0mcg on rest days. Whatever he decides to do, I think this little test will show some interesting end results.

Best of luck,
Sprt

 

[dertynasty]

Day 15 - Shot 6

So its the ending of the 2 week mark... man time flys.

Within these past 2 weeks I have had alot of weird experiences however the last week has been pretty normal. Go lift, Go pin in the crapper, Go home, Go eat.

I didnt have any weird stories this week other than the fact that on monday when I was pinning in the bathroom I hit a nerve and it pushed the pin back out which was a really weird/funny feeling in both my shoulder and in my hip, where the end of the nerve was.

I havent had too much noticeable change other than the slight vascularity that came on almost immediately. I have been thinking alot about how I would like to run my IGF and here is the fact. I would LIKE to see how 3x a week of IGF at a low dose would work for somebody over a 4 month period... however I really do not feel that I would like to be this person. I also have struggled with the style of training I am using as well. The concept of HST is awesome I will say that without a doubt. However the fullbody ( or even uppperbody) workouts in 1 day is just much too fatiguing for me. I dont care even if it IS extremely low volume thats spread out over the week. So I have thought and thought and have came up with a few ideas on how I am going to be changing this around to better fit me.And if you guys do not want to follow this log anymore i would completely understand.

The two images below are charts I have outlined in excel on how I would like to set up my Training/Pinning schedual.


Image 1 - States I would be pinning ONLY post workout, 20 mcg a day into the muscles listed. (With sunday off of pinning and training) This isnt that much different than my old way however, i would be pinning 6x instead of 3x. I hope to still be maximizing the postworkout benefits of pinning however I would just be keeping a consitant dosage throughout the week.

Image 2 - States I would be pinning 10 mcg in the AM and 10 mcg (5mcg each side) Post workout into the muscles listed. Also on my off day i would be pinning a small dose of 10mcg in the am which would be all. My goal this way is to be keeping myself anabolic all day while still keeping it at a fairly low dosage to minimize unwanted growth.

I would really like anyones imput and i would be very appreciative. Once again, sorry for having to change it just wasnt working out for me the way I hoped for.

 

[Grunt76]

I like the postworkout-only schedule, 6 days a week. Big time.

But then again, you probably knew I was going to go that way huh?

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

You know what I would like to know ... is with all the debate (which is more than 2 sided) why no one can agree one on single protocal in terms of IGF application. I did quite a bit of reading the last couple nights and it appears that these "experts" everyone listens too all say something different, they all have different opinions on how to use IGF, how to store it, how to inject it, where to inject it, and/or anything really having to do with it in general. What gives? For something so widly used and gaining popularity, there truly seems to be very little known facts about IGF, its application, and proper protocal(s).

Sprt

 

[idunk42]

You know what I would like to know ... is with all the debate (which is more than 2 sided) why no one can agree one on single protocal in terms of IGF application. I did quite a bit of reading the last couple nights and it appears that these "experts" everyone listens too all say something different, they all have different opinions on how to use IGF, how to store it, how to inject it, where to inject it, and/or anything really having to do with it in general. What gives? For something so widly used and gaining popularity, there truly seems to be very little known facts about IGF, its application, and proper protocal(s).

Sprt

Ok, I'll agree that there isnt a whole lot of knowledge on IGF, overall, but as far as the consensus on a lot of other things seems to be the same. Where to inject, as far as IM, is the most popular by far, how to store it, there has been studies on that and how different storage temps effect it. So your comments on these "experts" and their advice on igf, is easily understood, well to me at least. I dont know what studies you were supposedly reading, but obviously you werent grasping them or reading something that had to do with nothing on the topic in general. Yes, igf is somewhat new on the scene and is something difficult to understand, but there are quite a few things that everyone has come to agree upon. Basically, the only thing that is usually differentiated upon usage is the personally preference of the user, whether to do it 2x a day or PWO or whatever the person decides. Regardless of usage, the product can be very effective.

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

Ok, I'll agree that there isnt a whole lot of knowledge on IGF, overall, but as far as the consensus on a lot of other things seems to be the same. Where to inject, as far as IM, is the most popular by far, how to store it, there has been studies on that and how different storage temps effect it. So your comments on these "experts" and their advice on igf, is easily understood, well to me at least. I dont know what studies you were supposedly reading, but obviously you werent grasping them or reading something that had to do with nothing on the topic in general. Yes, igf is somewhat new on the scene and is something difficult to understand, but there are quite a few things that everyone has come to agree upon. Basically, the only thing that is usually differentiated upon usage is the personally preference of the user, whether to do it 2x a day or PWO or whatever the person decides. Regardless of usage, the product can be very effective.

No no ... I wasn't reading studies, but rather posts from these so called "experts." I'll be more than happy to post them; I'm subscribed to the thread where I read all these accounts over at SSB. It will certainly hijack this thread though ... not sure Derty would appreciate that.


Did you read check it out?? Tell me you dont see conflicting arguments/information regarding IGF application floating around the net. Excellent read to say the least ... but frusturating as well.

Thanks,
Sprt

 

[dertynasty]

WAY TO HIJACK YOU *******!!!:FUfinger:




j:rofl:k

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

:lol:

 

[idunk42]

No no ... I wasn't reading studies, but rather posts from these so called "experts." I'll be more than happy to post them; I'm subscribed to the thread where I read all these accounts over at SSB. It will certainly hijack this thread though ... not sure Derty would appreciate that.

You know what, here is the link:
http://www.steroidsuperboard.com/board/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=4251
Read through thata nd tell me you dont see conflicting arguments/information regarding IGF application. Excellent read to say the least ... frusturating as well.

Thanks,
Sprt

You should erase that link, as it is a source board.

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

You should erase that link.

As should you ... edit edit edit.

Thanks,
Sprt

PS: You read through it? If so, it should be easy to see what I'm talking about; to many opinions, not enough facts.

Nice read though.

 

[NevrEnuf]

Btw it should be noted that the time your IGF1 is left unrefridgerated will have an effect on efficacy because it degrades rather quickly when exposed to high temps once reconstituted. Not sure how you are transporting your IGF1 to the gym; what kind of cold storage you are using and how effectvie it is.

I thought that we have scientific studies showing that igf doesn't loose its effieiency for something like a year, even at high temperatures. I remember beezle posting it somewhere and seeing it floating around these forums. Please correct me if i'm wrong or give me some research that proves ur refrigeration methods.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

I thought that we have scientific studies showing that igf doesn't loose its effieiency for something like a year, even at high temperatures. I remember beezle posting it somewhere and seeing it floating around these forums. Please correct me if i'm wrong or give me some research that proves ur refrigeration methods.

There are...its takes about 6 months to a year to lose efficacy at room temperature.

Good catch.

 

[idunk42]

As should you ... edit edit edit.

Thanks,
Sprt

PS: You read through it? If so, it should be easy to see what I'm talking about; to many opinions, not enough facts.

Nice read though.

Ok, so whats your point? Your getting your info from a board of people that actually dont research what they're taking. Yeah, I read through it all, and those guys dont seem like they have much of clue what they are doing.

 

[Grunt76]

Ok, so whats your point? Your getting your info from a board of people that actually dont research what they're taking. Yeah, I read through it all, and those guys dont seem like they have much of clue what they are doing.

I so agree man. That board is pretty hardcore and also filled with inexperienced, unknowledgeable "gurus". A very dangerous combination, if you ask little me.

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

Ok, so whats your point? Your getting your info from a board of people that actually dont research what they're taking. Yeah, I read through it all, and those guys dont seem like they have much of clue what they are doing.

I never had a point ... I was just showing you guys how everyone seems to know what they're talking about, yet they all say something different. How no one really agree's on one set of facts or another. It's frustrating and unfortunate for the new guys looking up to these guys. Like grunt said, these self proclaimed "gurus" really have little basic knowledge of this peptide, yet claim this or that to be fact. It like this on almost every board I've come a crossed, even AM sadly.

What gives??

Thanks,
Sprt

 

[Grunt76]

I never had a point ... I was just showing you guys how everyone seems to know what they're talking about, yet they all say something different. How no one really agree's on one set of facts or another. It's frustrating and unfortunate for the new guys looking up to these guys. Like grunt said, these self proclaimed "gurus" really have little basic knowledge of this peptide, yet claim this or that to be fact. It like this on almost every board I've come a crossed, even AM sadly.

What gives??

Thanks,
Sprt

You will not find much unsubstantiated claiming going on here without any correcting words from the mods and members. Have you found much that is greatly contradictory?

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

You will not find much unsubstantiated claiming going on here without any correcting words from the mods and members. Have you found much that is greatly contradictory?

I have actually. Within PM's, one on one AIM discussions, and in a couple posts, yes, I have found a few instances of contradictory arguments. I will admit, however, that out of the many boards I frequent most of use at AM will agree more often in comparison to these other boards. One issue which I find mixed opinions on is whether or not localized injections actually cause hypertrophy. Some say yes while others will say no. What do you say Grunt ... you seem like one of the more level headed and well informed guys here (out of many). What's your verdict?

lol, Derty is probably pissed we filled his thread with all this babble. Sorry derty. I think the discussion, along side your updates, make for a better thread though. Sorry if you feel otherwise.

Thanks,
Sprt

 

[Grunt76]

I have actually. Within PM's, one on one AIM discussions, and in a couple posts, yes, I have found a few instances of contradictory arguments. I will admit, however, that out of the many boards I frequent most of use at AM will agree more often in comparison to these other boards. One issue which I find mixed opinions on is whether or not localized injections actually cause hypertrophy. Some say yes while others will say no. What do you say Grunt ... you seem like one of the more level headed and well informed guys here (out of many). What's your verdict?

lol, Derty is probably pissed we filled his thread with all this babble. Sorry derty. I think the discussion, along side your updates, make for a better thread though. Sorry if you feel otherwise.

Thanks,
Sprt

I believe every single one who has pinned IMMEDIATELY postworkout in the muscles trained has reported significant localized growth. Permanent, slow, with immediate onset. Sadly, there aren't that many, as a lot of guys like to drive back home and pin 30 minutes afterwards. I'm talking 5-10 minutes after the last set here. IMO it is crucial. But as I said not many people have done it this way, so the evidence isn't humongous. It does make sense though.

 

[NevrEnuf]

I believe every single one who has pinned IMMEDIATELY postworkout in the muscles trained has reported significant localized growth. Permanent, slow, with immediate onset. Sadly, there aren't that many, as a lot of guys like to drive back home and pin 30 minutes afterwards. I'm talking 5-10 minutes after the last set here. IMO it is crucial. But as I said not many people have done it this way, so the evidence isn't humongous. It does make sense though.

thats what i've done, fits right into a glasses case. go to the bathroom and boom its done, 2 minutes tops after a workout.

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

Same here ... since I've been working out at home lately. Lift, pin, PWO shake, shower, & DONE!

Thanks,
Sprt