Neoborn's Epistane FAQ - Pulse & Regular Cycle Information!

neoborn

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Neoborn's Epistane (Regular Cycle (RC) & Pulse Cycle (PC)) FAQ

This FAQ basically contains ( or will as time goes on ) all relative information to successfully running either a RC or PC of Epistane. This faq will contain the following:

  • What is Epistane?
  • Where can I get Epistane?
  • Regular Cycle Information & Example
  • Pulse Cycle Information & Example
  • Problems & Answers
  • Who else can help me with "x" issue or answer my question on "x"?
Prologue:

I decided to write this FAQ to hopefully clear up alot of questions and give people some kind of a solid understanding of Epistane and the various ways of cycling it etc. I also want to be straight up and up front with everyone by telling them:

  • I am no Dr. and anything said does not superceed your Dr.'s / Medical Practioner's advice!
  • I am not all knowledgable, the answer to all your prayers, a guru or any kind of replacement for your deity!
  • All information in this FAQ is subject to change / open discussion at any time.
With that said I / We ( Members, Users & Contributors ) will provide you with the best collection of information there currently is at this time for Epistane, and how to run a successful cycle!

What is Epistane?:

Epistane is Epitiostanol, a methlyated compound that is designed to be an Anti-Estrogenic / Aromatase Inhibitor. It is also more than just this, it also promotes increases in strength and lean body mass. It can produce some / all of the following:
  • Incredible Strength Gains
  • Dry, Lean Mass Gains
  • Gynocomastia Protection
  • Increased Libido
  • Increased Training Intensity and Sense of Well-Being
  • In Some, Reductions in Gynocomastia!
The chemical name for Epistane is: 2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol.

Here is a quick Epistane excert from Sinner's Designer Steroid / Prohormone Profiles thread:

Epistane/Havoc/Hemaguno
Innovators: IBE, RPN, Spectra Force
Nomenclature: 2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
Pill Size: 10mg or 12.5mg depending on what brand you use
Dosages: 20-50mg
Side Effects: Milder on liver and lipid levels than other methyls. Known to cause lower back and calf pumps.
Reputation: There has had some spectroscopy and compound identification issues with these products, but from personal experience with it, is still a solid product. Many users have taken this compound as a solo run for gynecomastia reduction due to it's SERM-like and anti-aromatase properties. It is also a popular compound for use with the 'pulse method' of taking orals. Users can expect to see significant gains in both strength and mass.

IBE firmly believes that Epistane is the purest form of Epistanol available when comparing Epistane and the current clones available, just to get that lil firestarter out of the way. This is in no way to say that Havoc or any of the others do not work or produce good gains. We are not here to create contraversy but to help you attain your goals in peace!

For the record be very clear and understand that Epistane is a Steroid. Know what you are getting into and research alot BEFORE you buy or start your cycle. This will help you achieve your goals and have less potential problems. Smooth sailing is what we want baby!

Where can I get Epistane?

You can purchase Epistane from various places around the net, for instance just googling Epistane will provide you with enough hits to give you a place to purchase. I recommend:

Nutraplanet

Their prices, quality and dedication to excellent customer service make them the best around!
 
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neoborn

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Regular Cycle Information & Example:

A regular cycle will usually consist of taking the product in an everday fashion for a period of weeks.

Dosage: 10/20/30/40 - First day is 10mg's, second day and for the rest of Week1 is 20mg's. Upper range doses, depending on your tolerance levels / PH use, can range from 40/50/60 and up though it is not recommended. From various posts / results from users, 40mg's seems to be the sweet spot.

Length Of Cycle: 4 Weeks to 6 Weeks - These lengths being the average cycle lengths. Some may go as high as 8 - 12 Weeks, this is depended on experience & side effects ( sides ) etc. 4 Weeks seems to be a safe length of time for good gains without any hardcore sides.

Cycle Support: There are various supplements etc that can help you to maintain a healthy liver / body etc while on cycle. Some of the most common are:

Liv52 | Cycle Support | Milk Thistle | NAC ( N-Acetyl-Cysteine ) | Fish Oil / Omega 3's | Grape Seed Extract | Hawthorne Berry | Red Yeast Rice | Dandelion Root | Artichoke Extract | Multivitamin | ZMA | B-Complex | Saw Palmetto

Post Cycle Therapy: Post Cycle Therapy will vary for many but the basics seem to be - SERM, Cycle / Liver Support Supps & some kind of Non Hormonal Stack to get the HPTA restored / Testes up and running.

Example:

Toremifene: Days 1-4: 120mg | Week 2: 90mg | Week 3: 60mg | Week 4: 30mg (If needed)

or

Nolvadex: Week1: 40mg | Week2: 40mg | Week3: 20mg | Week4: 20mg

Non Hormonal Stacks:

HyperDrolX2 + MassFX

Activate + Rebound XT or Reloaded

Jungle Warfare +Restore + BAM ( Bad A$$ Mass )

Some people prefer one over the other for how they respond. Check the poll >>>here<<<

For more information on Post Cycle Therapy >>>Go Here<<< or >>>here<<<
 
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neoborn

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Pulse Cycle Information & Example

Pulse cycles are different to RC because you are not taking the active / product everyday. The new standard protocol devised / refined by Dr.D basically says the following:

  • Pulsing is a method of dosing a product designed to intentionally avoid potential long term side effects such as HPTA suppression and liver damage.
  • Higher dosing but less frequency
  • EOD dosing, so 3-4 times per week. ( EOD = Every Other Day )
  • 2 days on / 2 days off
  • 2 weeks on / 2 weeks off
  • Doses preferably before 6pm
  • Majority dosage taken Pre WO ( Pre Workout )
  • High quality, high carb/calorie PW meal or shake
  • Sufficient protein especially on the off days ( 1g to 1.5g per lb bodyweight )
  • Off days good time to take a Anti-Cortisol supp or even just low dose DHEA
  • Cortisol peaks in the morning and again in the mid afternoon take Anti-Cortisol doses at those times.
  • Test booster on "off" days or ED ( Every Day )
  • An aromatase inhibitor ( AI ) or test booster will punctuate the positive, hormonal "bounce back" effect of pulsing. Taken on "off" days.
  • Be modest with liver protectants like Milk Thistle, take only on off days or not until 6hrs post dose on "on" days.
Dosage: 10/20/30/40 - The larger dose is always taken Pre WO. So for example if 10mg or 20mg this would be taken all Pre WO. Once you get into the 30mg doses you will split up the dose by taking 20mg Pre WO and 10mg PW. Same upscaling of doses occurs as weeks on cycle increase, also depending on your gains / results or sides. Most Pulse cycle users find 40mg to be the upper range sweet spot. Upper range doses, depending on your tolerance levels / PH use, can range from 40/50/60 and up though it is not recommended.

Length Of Cycle: 6 - 8 Weeks - This is not to say you cannot pulse for 4 weeks or longer than 8 weeks etc.

Cycle Support: There are various supplements etc that can help you to maintain a healthy liver / body etc while on cycle. Some of the most common are:

As previously noted Milk Thistle, NAC or SAMe is only to be taken on "off" days or 6hrs post dose. If you are going to take HyperdrolX2 dose either 4 caps a day - 1 morn, 1 afternoon, 2 pre bed or on your "on" days before bed 2 - 4 caps. ED is recommended and should bring about some good bounce back effects.

Milk Thistle | NAC ( N-Acetyl-Cysteine ) | SAMe | Fish Oil / Omega 3's | Grape Seed Extract | Hawthorne Berry | Red Yeast Rice | Dandelion Root | Artichoke Extract | Multivitamin | ZMA | B-Complex | Saw Palmetto

Example of a 3x/wk pulse M,W,F:

Week-Dose(mg)
1 (10,20,30)
2 30
3 30-40
4 30-40
5 30-50
6 30-50
7 30-60
8 30-60

Example of a 4x/wk pulse Sat, Sun, Wed, Thur:

Week-Dose(mg)
1 (10,20,30,30)
2 30
3 30-40
4 30-40
5 30-50
6 30-50

Post Cycle Therapy: Your Post Cycle Therapy will consist of a Non Hormonal Stack, Anticortisol and AI. Please feel free to mix and match as you so choose:

Non Hormonal Stacks:

HyperDrolX2 + MassFX

Activate + Rebound XT or Reloaded

Jungle Warfare +Restore + BAM ( Bad A$$ Mass )

Some people prefer one over the other for how they respond. Check the poll >>>here<<<

For more information on Pulsing >>>go here<<< and for results that people have had from pulsing >>>go here<<<
 
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neoborn

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Problems & Answers:

Currently I don't have a long list of problems / solutions so please feel free to add these to this thread or PM me and I will add them to this area. Please include the problem and solution to the problem that resolved the issue for you! Thanks.

Gyno:


Q: I am experiencing gyno or gyno symptoms on my "x" cycle, at "x" mg's a dose?

A: Depending on the dose you are currently taking a boost or upping the dose of Epistane might be needed to really kick in with it's SERM / Gyno reducing effects. Dr.D has seen guys dosing 20-30mg that only have marginal improvement, upped the dosage to 40mg and then seeing good improvement in this area.
_____________________________________________

Q: What is the best cycle method to reduce my gyno?

A: The pulse cycle is really meant for training and not really for Gyno reduction. Dr.D suggests an ED cycle for Gyno reduction. Also add a good quality AI during this cycle as well as E2 estrogen levels may rise on a SERM like Epistane.
_____________________________________________

Q: I am experiencing Gyno type problems on my current cycle should I just stop and go into post cycle therapy?

A: This would be dependant on how rampant the effects and how close you are to finishing your cycle. Some things that can be done to alleviate the problems are 1) 200mg Motrin 3 x daily 2) AI 2 x daily 3) Nolva 20mg day.
_____________________________________________

Q: I am not sure what AI's to use if I am prone or very sensitive to Gyno, what do you suggest?

A: Dr.D suggests that "Stay away from reversible AI's like Letro if you're gyno prone because they can rebound, only use the steroidals like exemestane, ATD, 6-Br, formestane, teslac, etc..".
_____________________________________________

Hairloss:

Q: I am experiencing hairloss on Epistane, what should I do?

A:
Genetic expression of MPB differs from person to person. There are many factors involved, and it's believed that DHT activity on the scalp's hair follicle receptors may be the primary culprit in hair loss. It definitely appears to be the case, as DHT inhibiting topicals and systemic treatments seem to have a positive effect for most.

If you're prone to MPB, and you flood your system with extrgenous androgens, chances are you WILL lose hair for this very reason. When those androgen levels are lowered, the hair should at least stop falling out if you're young enough. It seems that, as males age, the receptors build up increased sensitivity to androgenic alopecia (think about it - as guys get older their test levels decline and yet more hair falls out!). Regrowth will depend entirely on your genetics - if you have a lot of guys in your family that went bald early and you have the same hairline - the androgens may just kick off your MPB a few years early for you.


Your BEST bet is to prevent the hairloss altogether. Either a.)dont use hormones that can contribute to hair loss or b.)take the proper protective measures.

For a compound like Epistane, with no 5AR activity, this should be a topical general androgen blocker like 2% Spironolactone 2x/day along with Nizoral shampoo 1x ED. Hitting your scalp with the laser brush for 5-10minutes a day wouldnt hurt either, as it helps create optimal conditions for hair growth.

Do NOT use a compound like minoxidil unless you're fighting genetic MPB and plan to keep using it forever.

IMO, if you're worried about hairloss and you're already going bald start a serious hair loss prevention regimen asap. The sooner the better if you want to have any hopes of running hairloss free cycles and intend to keep the hair on your head as long as possible.
Q: Where can I find some good information to help me stop or slow my hairloss?

A: See this thread: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/21961-hair-loss-prevention.html

_____________________________________________

General:


Q: I have already completed a cycle of Epistane can I start another one right after?

A: The standard protocol for cycling is: Time between cycles = Cycle Time + post cycle therapy in weeks = break between cycles. For example if you were on cycle for 4 weeks + 4 weeks post cycle therapy then it will be 8 weeks ( or more preferably ) before you can start another cycle. Pulsing is a little different that you will add up your "On" days to figure out the equivalent "Off" time you will need.
 
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neoborn

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Who else can help me with "x" issue or answer my question on "x"?

Here are some resources to help you if you need more help than this thread can supply:

If ANYONE has anything they would like to discuss or ANYTHING that they feel is worthy to add to this thread please do not fail to let me know in this thread / PM / Email etc.
 
mmowry

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Go Neo go! Very nice work!!!
 
Cablejak

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Very nice! Sure beats digging through months of posts. ;)

Should package this as a pamphlet with the product. lol


-Cablejak
 
neoborn

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You guys make me blush!

You guys wanna go find me some problems and answers for this product? I have none :sad: :toofunny:

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
45Caliber

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Nice work!!! Thanks for putting this together!
 
edwards

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Good info. I'm taking Epi at 40mg day and loving it!

Can someone explain what Back and Calf Pumps are?
I wish this site had a Glossary.
 
neoborn

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Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe a "Back Pump" or another type of debilitating pump is where a muscle that you are not primarily working out becomes engorged with blood that it causes some kind of cramping / fatigue which then hinders your mobility or range of motion. For instance a "Back Pump" when performing Squats can happen in the lower back stabilizers.

To combat this take Taurine daily I believe somewhere from 2g's to 5g's a day ( I might be off on dosages but search board for posts on keyword taurine ).

Much Love,

Neoborn
 

FitnFirm

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I went bald looking at Neoborn's avy :mad: Can you fix that too, geez................ holy write ups :toofunny:
 
neoborn

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How is the hair loss on an epi pulse?
This would be dependent upon whether you are prone to MPB / hairloss already. There are some that are sensitive and some that are not. I believe the majority do not have a problem with this as this is such a mild steroid.

It has occurred though:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/71588-epistane-sides.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/60583-epistane-havoc-results.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/ibe-technology/62873-epistane-hairline.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/70308-hair-loss-epistane.html

If you are sensitive to MPB / Hairloss:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/21961-hair-loss-prevention.html?highlight=hairloss

I went bald looking at Neoborn's avy :mad: Can you fix that too, geez................ holy write ups :toofunny:
Avy is avatar? And yes it's quite the write up, just took time to compile / format all the content is from the forums here or Dr.D's threads.

Much Love,

Neoborn
 

Rx Lift

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Thanks Neoborn, I was hoping to find some feedback on epistane when using it on a pulse cycle. Since most side effects are reduced when pulsing, I am curious if this is the same case with a pulse?
 
Trauma1

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Great job neo:thumbsup: ......but you gotta get rid of that avy....it's killing me
 
neoborn

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Great job neo:thumbsup: ......but you gotta get rid of that avy....it's killing me
Not sure why, I hope you're not offending my mojo baby.....yeah!

Thanks Neoborn, I was hoping to find some feedback on epistane when using it on a pulse cycle. Since most side effects are reduced when pulsing, I am curious if this is the same case with a pulse?
I recommend using the search function, or if that doesn't get you any results post in the "Epistane FAQ" in my signature then find the Pulse section.

Hope this helps you,

Neoborn
 
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1HP

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Hey neo,

Any information on how effective epi is (if at all) on reducing gyno when pulsing it in stead of a straight cycle?

Thanks!!
 
neoborn

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Hey neo,

Any information on how effective epi is (if at all) on reducing gyno when pulsing it in stead of a straight cycle?

Thanks!!

From the various posts I have read for Gyno Reduction I would recommend a straight ED cycle. Starting with the regular dosing scheme working your way up to 40mg i.e. 10/20/30/40/40 etc. Poopy experienced his reductions etc around week3, apparently for most it really kicks in around week3.

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
Red Dog

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Great Post! Really Informative. And the avy is perfect by the way...

Oh and I forgot... my name is Richie Cunningham, and this is my wife, Oprah.
 
DR.D

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Wow, my two typing fingers hurt just looking at that write-up! Excellent consolidation with nice aesthetic flow and symmetry. Solid info on common topics that people are always asking for also. Good job. Except for that dr.d guys gyno advice you posted, have you seen his boobs?! He can't know what he's talking about. :rofl:
 
neoborn

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LOL. mmmmmmm maaaaaannn booobs :D

I mean really though who doesn't like DD's?

So the problem and solution area is all good? Any other suggestions or even if you send me links from your previous posts that you would like to see included in here would be good ....and less typing for you :)

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
Endure80

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Thanks for all the info. I appreciate the thread. This product seems to be all around good product for the enthusaist.
 
neoborn

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Thanks for all the info. I appreciate the thread. This product seems to be all around good product for the enthusaist.
Please be safe and listen to your body. I always highly suggest bloodwork before and after a cycle, as well as taking a good liver protectant. We want you to have a good run but not at the expense of damaging yourself.

Take the neccessary precautions! :)

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
vcon13

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Great documentation bro. This one of the best write-ups I have seen.
 

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Hey Neo, I am about to do my first PH cycle, is it true that since it's my first I would gain the same amount of lean muscle if I stick with 20mg for 6 weeks versus ramping up to 40mg for 6 weeks? Also can you tell me any info on particular mass gaining workouts that seems to work best during an epistane cycle? (I've posted this question eslewhere, but haven't recieved an answer) How much DHEA should I supplemnt with during my epistane cycle, how much should my dosage be after? Should I use a Cortisol blocker during my cycle ( I plan on using retain2 after, but if need be I can start it during)?

One other thing, if Epistane acts as a SERM, why is one needed post? This might seem like a stupid question, but I haven't found a REASON why a SERM is needed with this product, everyone just seems to say that you need one, just because.

I should elaborate on my workout question, I am planning to do a 5 day workout (chest, arms, back, shoulders, legs/abs), is there anything that might work better during a cycle for gaining muscle/ losing bf?
 
neoborn

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Hey Neo, I am about to do my first PH cycle, is it true that since it's my first I would gain the same amount of lean muscle if I stick with 20mg for 6 weeks versus ramping up to 40mg for 6 weeks?

Hello Mountain,

I would say that it would be good to listen to your body and at the point of decreasing strength etc gains then up the dose. I think that upping the dose weekly is standard procedure for most. I would would do 1 day 10mg, rest of week 1 at 20mg, see how it goes and if you get good gains and they're still coming stay at 20mg, if not up to 30mg. This is for a regular cycle not a pulse.



Also can you tell me any info on particular mass gaining workouts that seems to work best during an epistane cycle?
I would highly recommend DC Training. Beating your numbers each week = rapid improvements. There are others who have good input on this as well. DC is my experience or always going to failure in every exercise.


(I've posted this question eslewhere, but haven't recieved an answer) How much DHEA should I supplemnt with during my epistane cycle, how much should my dosage be after?
Sorry but I have no experience with DHEA. I believe there is some information on using this on cycle in the "How to pulse orals" thread, have a look at the last 4 or so pages. Dr.D or others would be better to give you an idea.

Here is an example: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/70839-rothymans-epistane-dhea.html

I would just use the search "DHEA" then change the drop down in advanced searching to "Titles only" and read away.


Should I use a Cortisol blocker during my cycle ( I plan on using retain2 after, but if need be I can start it during)?

One other thing, if Epistane acts as a SERM, why is one needed post? This might seem like a stupid question, but I haven't found a REASON why a SERM is needed with this product, everyone just seems to say that you need one, just because.
I would say taking X-Lean / Retain2 everyday should cause no problems that I am aware of, 1 dose am 1 dose 3pm and 1 dose post workout if you desire. The reason a SERM would be required is because this product will shut you down and you will have to get your HPTA going again cause no one likes raisins for testicles right? I would highly suggest 2 things, bloodword and a SERM for a Regular cycle.

I should elaborate on my workout question, I am planning to do a 5 day workout (chest, arms, back, shoulders, legs/abs), is there anything that might work better during a cycle for gaining muscle/ losing bf?
Again I highly recommend DC style training maybe with a lil cardio thrown in, but if you workout hard ( complete failure ) and rest well you will see great results on this product. 40mg seems to be the sweet spot for alot of people

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/71996-dc-training-log.html?highlight=dc+training

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/73635-everything-anything-dc.html

I hope this helps you,

Neoborn
 

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Thank you Neo, I really appreciate it- I just want to make sure I am wise during and after my cycle, I don't want to screw my body up, I kind of nervous, but excited at the same time.
 
theJmad

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Neo, I got to say excellent write up. I'm not really looking into a cycle, but I'm curious if people have been reporting acne with epistane. My skin is just clearing up after my sd cycle I did over a year ago... well it wasn't the sd that did it it was the dreaded nolva. Anyways, the pulsing method sounds enticing if nolva is not necessary and epi doesn't cause acne. Maybe a less harsh PCT compund won't be as harsh on the skin...
 

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Neo, I got to say excellent write up. I'm not really looking into a cycle, but I'm curious if people have been reporting acne with epistane. My skin is just clearing up after my superdrol cycle I did over a year ago... well it wasn't the superdrol that did it it was the dreaded nolva. Anyways, the pulsing method sounds enticing if nolva is not necessary and epi doesn't cause acne. Maybe a less harsh post cycle therapy compund won't be as harsh on the skin...
Ive been on EPI for 3 weeks, 2 which ive been dosing at 30mg. Ive had a very small amount of acne. I usually get it really bad during winter time (no time in the sun) and ive been out of the sun mostly and still havnt gotton to bad of acne at all. Start 40mg next week will let you know if it gets worse or not.
 
neoborn

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Neo, I got to say excellent write up. I'm not really looking into a cycle, but I'm curious if people have been reporting acne with epistane. My skin is just clearing up after my superdrol cycle I did over a year ago... well it wasn't the superdrol that did it it was the dreaded nolva. Anyways, the pulsing method sounds enticing if nolva is not necessary and epi doesn't cause acne. Maybe a less harsh post cycle therapy compund won't be as harsh on the skin...
1. There have been some instances of acne with Epistane, from what I have read / seen it's at higher doses like 40mg's plus.

2. SERM is always a good thing to have on hand, if you don't like Nolva how about some Toremifene? I recommend doing a Epistane / Bulk Formestane( & Penetrate) run, I'm sure you'll love it.

3. Drive is out from AN - Drive (110 caps) By Applied Nutriceuticals perhaps give that a whirl for either a cycle or PCT combined with 6-oxo or ATD and X-Lean / Anti-Cort.

Go non hormonal if you can...Drive has peeked my interest...

Love your thread, thank you!
You're welcome, I know I love easy to find threads that have all or most of the information in an easy to digest format :thumbsup:

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
theJmad

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Thanks for the info NEO. I definitely agree that nonhormonal is the way to go, and that's good advice for everyone. However, I was one of the lucky "super responders" to SD and gained about 20lbs on my 3 week cycle. I wonder if my androgen receptors are still fresh and if I would see those type of great gains with a nonhormonal product... But in the end, I'm so sick of acne and I finally have clear skin (thanks mostly to poseidon, great for the skin and detoxing) The bad thing is I'm just getting back up to par after a shoulder injury and lost about 15-20lbs of muscle from the injury. I miss my muscle and want it back, but I'd much rather have clear skin. Any suggestions on a product that will help NEO?
 

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Thanks for the info NEO. I definitely agree that nonhormonal is the way to go, and that's good advice for everyone. However, I was one of the lucky "super responders" to superdrol and gained about 20lbs on my 3 week cycle. I wonder if my androgen receptors are still fresh and if I would see those type of great gains with a nonhormonal product... But in the end, I'm so sick of acne and I finally have clear skin (thanks mostly to poseidon, great for the skin and detoxing) The bad thing is I'm just getting back up to par after a shoulder injury and lost about 15-20lbs of muscle from the injury. I miss my muscle and want it back, but I'd much rather have clear skin. Any suggestions on a product that will help NEO?
My 2 cents- you would probably have real good luck with Diesel Test Hardcore- I just finished 2 bottles of the stuff, and it worked great for me- you can check out my log on this site.
 
theJmad

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I heard that makes your skin really oily and causes acne. I forgot where I read it, but I'm pretty sure it was a blog on am, or maybe it was a review on a website...
 

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I heard that makes your skin really oily and causes acne. I forgot where I read it, but I'm pretty sure it was a blog on am, or maybe it was a review on a website...
It's possible, you can ask Chuck Diesel about that, but as for myself and the majority of the reviews I read on it- it was not really an issue- it just barely happened to me.
 

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