Need help understanding bloodwork results.

[4diolator]

So I just got my bloodwork results back that I had requested from my doctor. I am 24 years old, male and never used hormones. My results came back as:


Total testosterone
11.4 nmol/L (10.0 - 30.0 nmol/L)

Free testosterone
44.3 pmol/L (24 - 95 pmol/L)

Estradiol
118 pmol/L (<220 pmol/L)


I did some conversions on my own and found my total testosterone to be 328 ng/dl in a reference range of 288 - 864 ng/dl. I also did another calculation (this one may be wrong) but it looks like 5.11 % of my testosterone is free. What does these results tell me? Wher does it put me? I am able to put on a little muscle but slow which may be a result of my free testosterone however I do have weak erections and mid-low sexdrive. What should I be doing? Only thing I can think of that I have taken that may have resulted in these levels are Tribules terrestris that I used at 1-2 g a day 1-2 years ago and novedex XT (ATD) in the beginning of 2008. Please help me get to the bottom of this. BTW, I'm new to this forum and plan to stay. I have been visting this forum for a long time tho just as a guest. Thanks

 

[JanSz]

So I just got my bloodwork results back that I had requested from my doctor. I am 24 years old, male and never used hormones. My results came back as:


Total testosterone
11.4 nmol/L (10.0 - 30.0 nmol/L)

Free testosterone
44.3 pmol/L (24 - 95 pmol/L)

Estradiol
118 pmol/L (<220 pmol/L)


I did some conversions on my own and found my total testosterone to be 328 ng/dl in a reference range of 288 - 864 ng/dl. I also did another calculation (this one may be wrong) but it looks like 5.11 % of my testosterone is free. What does these results tell me? Wher does it put me? I am able to put on a little muscle but slow which may be a result of my free testosterone however I do have weak erections and mid-low sexdrive. What should I be doing? Only thing I can think of that I have taken that may have resulted in these levels are Tribules terrestris that I used at 1-2 g a day 1-2 years ago and novedex XT (ATD) in the beginning of 2008. Please help me get to the bottom of this. BTW, I'm new to this forum and plan to stay. I have been visting this forum for a long time tho just as a guest. Thanks

Your TotalT looks real low.
I am not sure about estradiol. Not sure if you had done the proper test.
It should be "ultrasensitive".
What is novedex XT (ATD), post a link where it is described.

If you can get blood work per my post #44.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jan-s-bloodtest-2.html
Do that at Quest Diagnostics, blood drawn at Quest.
Read also that thread, 3 pages.

If you have a problem with the list , we can make is shorter.
just remember, the more info, the more help you may get.

Have you had any trauma to the head or testicles, any suspected ilness?

 

[The Matrix]

So I just got my bloodwork results back that I had requested from my doctor. I am 24 years old, male and never used hormones. My results came back as:


Total testosterone
11.4 nmol/L (10.0 - 30.0 nmol/L)

Free testosterone
44.3 pmol/L (24 - 95 pmol/L)

Estradiol
118 pmol/L (<220 pmol/L)


I did some conversions on my own and found my total testosterone to be 328 ng/dl in a reference range of 288 - 864 ng/dl. I also did another calculation (this one may be wrong) but it looks like 5.11 % of my testosterone is free. What does these results tell me? Wher does it put me? I am able to put on a little muscle but slow which may be a result of my free testosterone however I do have weak erections and mid-low sexdrive. What should I be doing? Only thing I can think of that I have taken that may have resulted in these levels are Tribules terrestris that I used at 1-2 g a day 1-2 years ago and novedex XT (ATD) in the beginning of 2008. Please help me get to the bottom of this. BTW, I'm new to this forum and plan to stay. I have been visting this forum for a long time tho just as a guest. Thanks

Looks like your balls did not ever recovery from your last attemp from restarting it. MY suggestion would be to contact a A4M dr in your region to try to restart. If you do HPTA restart google you will more information into what next steps to take. I can offer suggestions, but it would only be based upon non medical advice

 

[4diolator]

Your TotalT looks real low.
I am not sure about estradiol. Not sure if you had done the proper test.
It should be "ultrasensitive".
What is novedex XT (ATD), post a link where it is described.

If you can get blood work per my post #44.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jan-s-bloodtest-2.html
Do that at Quest Diagnostics, blood drawn at Quest.
Read also that thread, 3 pages.

If you have a problem with the list , we can make is shorter.
just remember, the more info, the more help you may get.

Have you had any trauma to the head or testicles, any suspected ilness?

Here is a link to the novedex xt product as you requested
http://www.body building.com/store/gn/nxt.html (remove the space)

I have never had any trauma to the head but as any guy I have had one or two "strokes/light" hits to the testicles, nothing major at all. I didnt even think of that until you mentioned it so it cant be that. Do I have a disease that is causing this? Why is my free testosterone normal and with a good % not bound? I am really worried as I have always been a natural bodybuilder and never used anything hormonal. Any more information I can share would be I feel like a man, like I do get aggressive/hyped ect I feel really normal except the weak erection strength. I just turned 24, I know I could use more testosterone in my system for muscle building reasons. I also do feel fatigued from time to time tho. Am I sick? Please share more of your knowledge with me.

 

[4diolator]

Looks like your balls did not ever recovery from your last attemp from restarting it. MY suggestion would be to contact a A4M dr in your region to try to restart. If you do HPTA restart google you will more information into what next steps to take. I can offer suggestions, but it would only be based upon non medical advice

My balls should have recovered from what? I have never used steroids/prohormones in my life. Please do offer suggestions and explanations as I am worried something is wrong. I have always been real healthy. Active, eating right ect.

 

[JanSz]

Here is a link to the novedex xt product as you requested
http://www.body building.com/store/gn/nxt.html (remove the space)

I have never had any trauma to the head but as any guy I have had one or two "strokes/light" hits to the testicles, nothing major at all. I didnt even think of that until you mentioned it so it cant be that. Do I have a disease that is causing this? Why is my free testosterone normal and with a good % not bound? I am really worried as I have always been a natural bodybuilder and never used anything hormonal. Any more information I can share would be I feel like a man, like I do get aggressive/hyped ect I feel really normal except the weak erection strength. I just turned 24, I know I could use more testosterone in my system for muscle building reasons. I also do feel fatigued from time to time tho. Am I sick? Please share more of your knowledge with me.

Lets see if you can come up with blood test results as I posted above, it is not usefull guessing withouth any basis.

 

[4diolator]

I am not able to get bloodwork done that is so comprehensive however if you can narrow it down to 3-5 indicators and list them here I will try to get them done as well. But according to my current results, cant anything be said? Surely total and free test and estradiol has to be some basis.

 

[JanSz]

I am not able to get bloodwork done that is so comprehensive however if you can narrow it down to 3-5 indicators and list them here I will try to get them done as well. But according to my current results, cant anything be said? Surely total and free test and estradiol has to be some basis.

Out of you current results only TotalTestosterone in belivable.
FreeT test is always suspect,
same with your e2.

Where is you problem on getting blood tests?

Doctor
insurance
lack of $$

LEF is selling scripts.


/
At Quest Diagnostics, blood drawn at Quest

69 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
61 Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
60 Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
75 Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)
53 Cortisol AM/PM
54 DHEA sulfate
55 Prolactin
56 FSH
57 LH
----------------------
38 T3 Free
41 T4,Free
43 reverse T3 (rT3)
44 TSH
45 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)
------------------------

 

[The Matrix]

Hormone work in balance with each other. So one may want to look at your total hormone profile to get an over all picture of what is really going on. You need to examine lifestyle and nutritional intake before even ruling out hormonal issues. I am know working with one gentlement who eats cleaner then any one I have ever seen, but problem is he is eating all the wrong ratios of things which is afffecting his hormone status. In the near future we hope to jumps start his pituiatry by giving it all the necessary building blocks in the proper ratio to do so. It actually looks very promising, but untill that time in conjunction with his MD he is currently being supplemented with testosterone so he can have some what of a betterquality of life.

 

[4diolator]

Out of you current results only TotalTestosterone in belivable.
FreeT test is always suspect,
same with your e2.

Where is you problem on getting blood tests?

Doctor
insurance
lack of $$

LEF is selling scripts.


/
At Quest Diagnostics, blood drawn at Quest

69 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
61 Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
60 Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
75 Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)
53 Cortisol AM/PM
54 DHEA sulfate
55 Prolactin
56 FSH
57 LH
----------------------
38 T3 Free
41 T4,Free
43 reverse T3 (rT3)
44 TSH
45 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)
------------------------

Well I'm in canada right now, in a week I will be going to europe. There my doc wont let me test all those levels as I am only 24 and healthy, but since my results from canada show low test I might be able to get some of the tests you listed done. Out of curiosity, why are Thyroid levels important in this case?

Should I be worried from my current results? I dont even know what to think or how I should interpret them as a real life result.

 

[4diolator]

Hormone work in balance with each other. So one may want to look at your total hormone profile to get an over all picture of what is really going on. You need to examine lifestyle and nutritional intake before even ruling out hormonal issues. I am know working with one gentlement who eats cleaner then any one I have ever seen, but problem is he is eating all the wrong ratios of things which is afffecting his hormone status. In the near future we hope to jumps start his pituiatry by giving it all the necessary building blocks in the proper ratio to do so. It actually looks very promising, but untill that time in conjunction with his MD he is currently being supplemented with testosterone so he can have some what of a betterquality of life.

thank you for your input. this is very interesting to me. I think I could probably eat more healthy fats (fish, peanuts ect) and make sure I'm not zinc deficient. However, could those factors result in a test-outcome such as mine? I eat good, but the ratios could be better for all of us tho.

One more thing I can add if it helps is, I am slowly shedding some hair. I have since I was ~21 years old. Just a little thinning on the side of the crown. Dont know if its related or what. Are my current results reason to be worried?

 

[JanSz]

Well I'm in canada right now, in a week I will be going to europe. There my doc wont let me test all those levels as I am only 24 and healthy, but since my results from canada show low test I might be able to get some of the tests you listed done. Out of curiosity, why are Thyroid levels important in this case?

Should I be worried from my current results? I dont even know what to think or how I should interpret them as a real life result.

If you are going to UK, you can buy tests from Genova Diagnostics there. No script required just money.

Genova have international presence.
Not only doctors but chiropractors and nutritinists may open account with them.
So if you have a will and curiosity there is always a way.

Adrenal fatigue and Thyroid problems often lead to low Testosterone.

Your current TotalTestosterone levels are cause of concern.

Watch out, sheding hair, do not use:

Proscar, Avodart, Propecia, finasteride, duosteride.
For most people they do nothing, for smal percentage they ruin their life.

 

[4diolator]

If you are going to UK, you can buy tests from Genova Diagnostics there. No script required just money.

Genova have international presence.
Not only doctors but chiropractors and nutritinists may open account with them.
So if you have a will and curiosity there is always a way.

Adrenal fatigue and Thyroid problems often lead to low Testosterone.

Your current TotalTestosterone levels are cause of concern.

Watch out, sheding hair, do not use:

Proscar, Avodart, Propecia, finasteride, duosteride.
For most people they do nothing, for smal percentage they ruin their life.

Thank you for informing me of all this. I'm going to Norway actually. I've never heard of anyone my age getting a comprehensive hormonal bloodwork done but I will do my best convincing my doc to take the tests you listed as I already have low total testosterone results on hand and I will post the results as soon as I know.

I have never and wont use any of "Proscar, Avodart, Propecia, finasteride, duosteride."

I am REALLY eager to get to the bottom of this. I want to find the problem causing this then I'm going to whatever it takes to cure it.

Could you please elaborate on "Your current TotalTestosterone levels are cause of concern.". I would appreciate you giving me your opinion on possible cause/cure. Are my levels far from normal? Do you think I will ever get to normal levels so that I can keep them?

 

[JanSz]

Thank you for informing me of all this. I'm going to Norway actually. I've never heard of anyone my age getting a comprehensive hormonal bloodwork done but I will do my best convincing my doc to take the tests you listed as I already have low total testosterone results on hand and I will post the results as soon as I know.

I have never and wont use any of "Proscar, Avodart, Propecia, finasteride, duosteride."

I am REALLY eager to get to the bottom of this. I want to find the problem causing this then I'm going to whatever it takes to cure it.

Could you please elaborate on "Your current TotalTestosterone levels are cause of concern.". I would appreciate you giving me your opinion on possible cause/cure. Are my levels far from normal? Do you think I will ever get to normal levels so that I can keep them?

You have Genova in Oslo.

http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=

[email protected] <[email protected]>

===========================================
Reasons for low testosterone -- lack of sufficient T production,
either do to lack of signat to testis --> Secondary hypogonadism
or
lack of production capacity --> Primary hypogonadism.

Either way one becomes hypogonadal.

Not a pretty picture:

google and find out what it does to mans body if left untreated.

Do not even try to go into some kind of denial state.
It will not go away on its own.
It will only get worse.

 

[4diolator]

You have Genova in Oslo.

Genova Diagnostics - International Overview

[email protected] <[email protected]>

===========================================
Reasons for low testosterone -- lack of sufficient T production,
either do to lack of signat to testis --> Secondary hypogonadism
or
lack of production capacity --> Primary hypogonadism.

Either way one becomes hypogonadal.

Not a pretty picture:

google and find out what it does to mans body if left untreated.

Do not even try to go into some kind of denial state.
It will not go away on its own.
It will only get worse.

I had never heard of them I just looked up their address. I'm going to oslo so its perfect. So I just show up at the clinic tell them what tests I want and pay and they give it to me with no doctors note or questions? Do you work for that company? Are they good?

If it is like you say it is then I'm sure I will get those tests done, for sure. As much as money permits that is, as I'm a student.

And thank you so much for informing me of all this, I really do appreciate it. I will not deny anything, if I have a condition I will do whatever it takes for it to get corrected. Could this be genetic or is it environment related? Is it possible to get cured so that I get to normal levels and keep them there? Would you say that its pretty certain that I do have either primary or secondary hypogonadism?

I did google it like you said, I read "In primary hypogonadism the LH and/or FSH are usually elevated, whereas, in secondary hypogonadism, both are normal or low." In my case I do not know my base levels of LH or FSH, then how would one be able to determine if I have primary or secondary if I indeed have hypogonadism?

Would you say that I have a chance to get normal and cure this?

 

[JanSz]

I had never heard of them I just looked up their address. I'm going to oslo so its perfect. So I just show up at the clinic tell them what tests I want and pay and they give it to me with no doctors note or questions? Do you work for that company? Are they good?

If it is like you say it is then I'm sure I will get those tests done, for sure. As much as money permits that is, as I'm a student.

And thank you so much for informing me of all this, I really do appreciate it. I will not deny anything, if I have a condition I will do whatever it takes for it to get corrected. Could this be genetic or is it environment related? Is it possible to get cured so that I get to normal levels and keep them there? Would you say that its pretty certain that I do have either primary or secondary hypogonadism?

I did google it like you said, I read "In primary hypogonadism the LH and/or FSH are usually elevated, whereas, in secondary hypogonadism, both are normal or low." In my case I do not know my base levels of LH or FSH, then how would one be able to determine if I have primary or secondary if I indeed have hypogonadism?

Would you say that I have a chance to get normal and cure this?

I am retired 68yo with time at his hands.
I am not a doctor.
I do not work for Genova or anybody else.
I dance to stay in shape.

I know of only London's Genova offering their tests without scripts.
In Oslo you most likely have to get a doctor or nutritionist to write you a script.
Genova should help you in finding one.
You have got address, e-mail and phone, go get the necessary info.

With Genova Diagnostics you can do checking of
Adrenals
Thyroid
nutritional testing

I do not think you can get from them the tests that you are interested in, immediately.
They will have to come first and from another laboratory.

I am talking of thise blood tests that I originally expected you to do at Quest Diagnostics in USA:

69 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
61 Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
60 Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
75 Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)
53 Cortisol AM/PM
54 DHEA sulfate
55 Prolactin
56 FSH
57 LH
============================================

I do not know what is your problem, hard to say how it can be cured.
Cure mean in this case that when one is cured he does not need any more medical attention for his (previous ) illness.

Howewer, in worst case, assume that it is not curable, you can still lead normal life, similar to people with diabetes, taking shots or pills and going on with their life.
.
Better than alternative.
.
.

 

[4diolator]

I see. I will talk to Genova in oslo and see what they say. I will also talk to my doc there to get the tests you listed done by showing him my results from canada.

There is something I want your and other peoples opinion on:
During this summer I will do a cycle of transdermal 4-androstene,3beta 17beta diol. Followed by clomid and nolvadex treatment. In my research of 4AD, I noticed that it was used to elevate tetosterone levels in men with hypogonadism. I have also read reports that clomid have permanantly elevated testosterone levels to "normal" levels in men suffering from low testosterone.

Is it possible that after my cycle and clomid/nolvadex treatment that I end up with a higher base testosterone level that I keep?

I hope you can comment on this and others could chime in as well.
Thanks again.

 

[JanSz]

I see. I will talk to Genova in oslo and see what they say. I will also talk to my doc there to get the tests you listed done by showing him my results from canada.

There is something I want your and other peoples opinion on:
During this summer I will do a cycle of transdermal 4-androstene,3beta 17beta diol. Followed by clomid and nolvadex treatment. In my research of 4AD, I noticed that it was used to elevate tetosterone levels in men with hypogonadism. I have also read reports that clomid have permanantly elevated testosterone levels to "normal" levels in men suffering from low testosterone.

Is it possible that after my cycle and clomid/nolvadex treatment that I end up with a higher base testosterone level that I keep?

I hope you can comment on this and others could chime in as well.
Thanks again.

Have you been using steroids?
Is your current low TotalTestosterone due to steroids use?

 

[4diolator]

Have you been using steroids?
Is your current low TotalTestosterone due to steroids use?

No, never. As stated in my other post I have never touched anything hormonal before. Could you please comment on my previous post?

 

[JanSz]

No, never. As stated in my other post I have never touched anything hormonal before. Could you please comment on my previous post?

Do not use steroids or pro-hormones.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/4andro.html

=============================================

 

[4diolator]

Could you please elaborate? Like I stated I have read that 4AD has been used to elevate testosterone levels in men with hypogonadism. I have also read reports that clomid have permanently elevated testosterone levels to "normal" levels in men suffering from low testosterone. Maybe trying this out would "jumpstart" my own production. If you beg to differ, please explain why that wouldn't happen. Thank you.

Btw, I am not jumping into this. I have been researching this cycle and all compounds in it close to 7 months now. I have read the link you posted along time ago, more than once.

I genuinely believe that my test product could in fact get jump started after a good PCT, so if anyone is sitting on information that states otherwise please share.

 

[JanSz]

Could you please elaborate? Like I stated I have read that 4AD has been used to elevate testosterone levels in men with hypogonadism. I have also read reports that clomid have permanently elevated testosterone levels to "normal" levels in men suffering from low testosterone. Maybe trying this out would "jumpstart" my own production. If you beg to differ, please explain why that wouldn't happen. Thank you.

Btw, I am not jumping into this. I have been researching this cycle and all compounds in it close to 7 months now. I have read the link you posted along time ago, more than once.

I genuinely believe that my test product could in fact get jump started after a good PCT, so if anyone is sitting on information that states otherwise please share.

So far you have shown one test, low TotalTestosterone,
and you are making tons of assumptions.


Why do not you get the tests I listed, you will have a basis to do educated guesses.

Doing PCT, post cycle therapy, assumes that you did steroid cycle.
Then you are telling that you did not used any steroids, so why contemplate PCT.

4AD is (supposedly) 4-Androstenediol

Bodybuilding.com - 4-Androstenediol Information and Product Listing! 4-Androstenediol FAQ!

with your nick name, looks like you are fond of it.

You are assuming that (17-beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase) will convert it to additional testosterone.

If that was true, everybody would do it.
I would use it, instead I am using T & hcg injections.

Most likely it will go thru aromatase and you will end up with more estrone and estrodial.

The fact that is shows up on a chart means that reaction is possible, it does not mean that it will definitely happen.

Or it may mean that, say 1% will actually convert to a T and 99% will convert to Estrone and latter to estrodial.

You may spend money and grow tits.


.

 

[sethroberts]

Any real clinician who looks at your tests will tell you that all are normal. Nothing is out of range. Just because your total test is in the low end of the normal range doesn't mean anything to a doc. Your free test, the active portion, is in the middle portion of the normal range.

You do have an unusually high percentage of free test but this could be just normal physiology for you or it could be a function of diet, supplementation, exercise etc. Because your total test is in the low end of normal you should retest in 6 months to have 2 points for comparison.