msten/epi stack vs dmz 3.0

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ironprophacy

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hello, need to advice from the community. I have experience with the prohormone world( about 4 cycles under my belt) basically what the title says what would be best stack to go with out of the two:

msten- 20/30/30/40/40
epi - 40/40/40/40/40

or

dmz 3.0 - 2/3/3/3 (caps) maybe another week of 3 caps not sure ....

what would give the best result. my goal is a very lean dry bulk. please don't mind the absence if cycle support I know what to run, just need info on the two stacks ...
 
ThatGuyZA

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Have a look at my current log here http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/250993-test-cypionate-m.html


I am doing a 3 month cycle with test base, Msten as a kicker and Epi to end.
So far my gains have been lean and dry. I cannot comment on the Epi portion as of yet however.
It's not generally recommended that one runs two harsh methyls concurrently, however if you do make sure you use proper liver support (Tudca)

Also really advise on the test base you could run the risk of some serious lethargy !

As for the DMZ, have no experience there sorry.
 
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thank you for the input much appreciated!



anybody else have anything to say about the two different cycles ?
 
g0hardorgohom

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Both of those look bad but if I had to pick one, I'd definitely go with Epi/M-Sten.

M-Sten/TR3ST or M-Sten/TR3N would be much better option though.
 
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keep in mind though this is not only for maximum size ... al though size is a huge part of my goals hardening and increased vascularity are also a priority ( lean cut bulk) .... the input is much appreciated ! was also thinking .... would adding stano with the epi and msten make huge difference in the cycle
 
stann123

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keep in mind though this is not only for maximum size ... al though size is a huge part of my goals hardening and increased vascularity are also a priority ( lean cut bulk) .... the input is much appreciated ! was also thinking .... would adding stano with the epi and msten make huge difference in the cycle
Your diet will mainly determine that. Stano will help with lethargy, but most people here recommend trest
 
Spaniard

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keep in mind though this is not only for maximum size ... al though size is a huge part of my goals hardening and increased vascularity are also a priority ( lean cut bulk) .... the input is much appreciated ! was also thinking .... would adding stano with the epi and msten make huge difference in the cycle
TR3ST > Stano all day, everyday

DermaTrest would be the way to go IMO
 
reps4jesus

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Iv stacked epi with msten before and noticed nothing but sides, I dropped the epi and BOOM gains. Just run high dose msten or epi. Dmz is much better IMO though.
If you want to see my experience with it check out my log wwjd-dymethazine in cycle info
 
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thats another big thing I've been trying to validate, what is better in terms of dry gains dmz or msten ?
 
reps4jesus

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thats another big thing I've been trying to validate, what is better in terms of dry gains dmx or msten ?
Dmz is much dryer than msten. My strength seems to be going up quicker also.
Now don't get me wrong here, I'm talking about the compound dymethazine. Not this bull**** super dmz 3.0 product. Don't run that. You'll get 1/3 the results you could get by running one of the 3 compounds at high doses but you'll get all the side effects.
Run either
Msten 20-40mg
Dmz-30-60mg

I can't comment on m1a though. Iv never ran it. I know m1t is basically rat poison. And m1a is its PH.
 
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what would you recommend stacking dmx with to provide for better lean gains ? because the main reason i always kept eli in my cycle was because of the anti estrogen feature and the hardening/cutting aspect any advice ?

also as for dmx do you recommend a specific company to get the dmx from or ?
(i usually use LGI for most my stuff/their usually cheaper at decent quality)

also very much appreciate the input extremely helpful!!
 
stann123

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what would you recommend stacking dmx with to provide for better lean gains ? because the main reason i always kept eli in my cycle was because of the anti estrogen feature and the hardening/cutting aspect any advice ?

also as for dmx do you recommend a specific company to get the dmx from or ?
(i usually use LGI for most my stuff/their usually cheaper at decent quality)

also very much appreciate the input extremely helpful!!
Dmx is a rapper. Dmz is a ph
 
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sorry about that (autocorrect keeps changing it) *DMZ
 
reps4jesus

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what would you recommend stacking dmx with to provide for better lean gains ? because the main reason i always kept eli in my cycle was because of the anti estrogen feature and the hardening/cutting aspect any advice ?

also as for dmx do you recommend a specific company to get the dmx from or ?
(i usually use LGI for most my stuff/their usually cheaper at decent quality)

also very much appreciate the input extremely helpful!!
Don't run epi with dmz. No synergy. Run dmz 40-60mg for 6 weeks if you want more gains.
Adding more compounds is rarely the answer for more gains. It's commonly a question of dosing and time on cycle.
Pick up Olympus labs dmz
My cycle is moderate dosing. However if you want to go hard run it 60/60/60/60/60/60. I can't recommend a dose higher than this or a longer cycle for your personal health and the fact I'm no healthcare professional, but I know guys who enjoy 75-80mg.
Im blowing up on 40mg. Ill up it as soon as I'm not getting gains.
Only thing ill recommend To stack it with is 400-500mg test. Run test for 12 weeks kickstart with 6 weeks dmz and finish with 4 weeks winny or var to really harden up.
The key to staying dry is diet. Not drugs.
 
HardCore1

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Don't run epi with dmz. No synergy. Run dmz 40-60mg for 6 weeks if you want more gains.
Adding more compounds is rarely the answer for more gains. It's commonly a question of dosing and time on cycle.
Pick up Olympus labs dmz
My cycle is moderate dosing. However if you want to go hard run it 60/60/60/60/60/60. I can't recommend a dose higher than this or a longer cycle for your personal health and the fact I'm no healthcare professional, but I know guys who enjoy 75-80mg.
Im blowing up on 40mg. Ill up it as soon as I'm not getting gains.
Only thing ill recommend To stack it with is 400-500mg test. Run test for 12 weeks kickstart with 6 weeks dmz and finish with 4 weeks winny or var to really harden up.
The key to staying dry is diet. Not drugs.
^^^^^^^This!!!
I felt better on DMZ at 45-60 for 8 weeks than almost any other ph. If you really want a lean bulk, up the DMZ to 60 and add in stano for 8 weeks @ 600 per day. Add in a GDA and you're on your way to greatness.
 
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what about running teen with dmz any big diffrance or just dmz for sure ?
 
reps4jesus

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what about running teen with dmz any big diffrance or just dmz for sure ?
If you mean tren yeah. You can. I would bridge it for sure though. It would be a shame to miss out on the awesome feeling you get from dmz.
Maybe do dmz
60/60/60/60/60/60

Tren
0/0/0/0/90/90/90/120/120/120

This would be a good cycle.
It's very important to run inhibit p with tren.
If you mean injectable trenbolone then run test also.
 
g0hardorgohom

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That'd be a bit long cycle, I wouldn't personally recommend it. I'd keep it at 8ish weeks and run it like this:

- DYMETHAZI9E 40/40/40/40/40/60
- TR3N 60/90/90/90/90/90//120/120 (or preferably DermaTREN at 90mg/day for 60 days)
 
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would i need to add a serm for any of this or would i be fine with just regular good pct ?
 
g0hardorgohom

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would i need to add a serm for any of this or would i be fine with just regular good pct ?
There is no such thing as "regular good PCT" if it doesn't include SERM.

A good PCT protocol would be this:

- Clomid 50/50/25/25/0/0
- SUP3R PCT 4/4/3/3/2/1 (takes care of estrogen, cortisol, prolactin and boosts natural test production too)
+ you could throw in some SNS DAA at 3 grams/day too. It's cheap and it works - it's sodium D-aspartate so it's more soluble than "free form" of DAA.
 
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There is no such thing as "regular good PCT" if it doesn't include SERM.

A good PCT protocol would be this:

- Clomid 50/50/25/25/0/0
- SUP3R PCT 4/4/3/3/2/1 (takes care of estrogen, cortisol, prolactin and boosts natural test production too)
+ you could throw in some SNS DAA at 3 grams/day too. It's cheap and it works - it's sodium D-aspartate so it's more soluble than "free form" of DAA.
do you recommend good reliable site to get the clomid? (you know for reaserch base only)
 
MrKleen73

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If you mean tren yeah. You can. I would bridge it for sure though. It would be a shame to miss out on the awesome feeling you get from dmz.
Maybe do dmz
60/60/60/60/60/60

Tren
0/0/0/0/90/90/90/120/120/120

This would be a good cycle.
It's very important to run inhibit p with tren.
If you mean injectable trenbolone then run test also.
Nice run!

That'd be a bit long cycle, I wouldn't personally recommend it. I'd keep it at 8ish weeks and run it like this:

- DYMETHAZI9E 40/40/40/40/40/60
- TR3N 60/90/90/90/90/90//120/120 (or preferably DermaTREN at 90mg/day for 60 days)
I know we are on the same team here but I disagree on the length of the cycle being long. If it were 10 weeks of methyls then yeah I would completely agree but we are only talking about 6 weeks of toxic methyls and the rest is simply oral TR3N which will have effects on the lipids HPTA and BP but that is really about it. As far as HPTA 10 weeks is far from a long cycle. I really think sometimes people see an oral cycle and go all "Oh No Health issues" but other than the toxic methyls, their really isn't much difference on the system between non-liver toxic orals and injections based cycles which are typically starting at 12 weeks minimum.

No one is going to risk their membership here to post this information for you. What you are asking for is called sourcing and it is against the rules please understand that is why you are getting no responses. My suggestion go to one of the steroid based forums and look at the ads there will be plenty information on who is good and what not the research sites even have their own forums on places like that. However no one here is going to post that up because it is against the rules.
 
reps4jesus

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Not even 6 weeks of toxic methyls. Dmz is in fact methylated. However, studies show little to no change in liver values from use. Of course high dosage and longer length will play a big roll.
 
Spaniard

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Not even 6 weeks of toxic methyls. Dmz is in fact methylated. However, studies show little to no change in liver values from use. Of course high dosage and longer length will play a big roll.
What study was DMZ used in?
 
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I love epi and personally found no benefit when I cycled it with msten . Just my two cents. On paper msten looks great but the two methyls made my pee Brown :/
 
reps4jesus

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What study was DMZ used in?
I saw this on multiple sites I can't remember it was quite a long time ago. Of course it was just something I heard. Of course I still take all necessary precautions.
 
MrKleen73

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I think I saw the study you are referring too and if so the dose of DMZ was not that high if I remember correctly. However there is a review, or article mentioning the implied toxicity of a lot of methylated products may not be as bad as once thought. Stating that a lot of the readings in real life and the studies showed increased markers for kidney and liver values but when compared to someone who simply worked out extremely hard the numbers were pretty much the same. Basically implying that a lot of the increased values has to do with the waste, toxins, and proteins released during intense exercise more so than the methylation.

I am not sure how much of that I buy into either, but it is something to consider.
 
reps4jesus

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I think I saw the study you are referring too and if so the dose of DMZ was not that high if I remember correctly. However there is a review, or article mentioning the implied toxicity of a lot of methylated products may not be as bad as once thought. Stating that a lot of the readings in real life and the studies showed increased markers for kidney and liver values but when compared to someone who simply worked out extremely hard the numbers were pretty much the same. Basically implying that a lot of the increased values has to do with the waste, toxins, and proteins released during intense exercise more so than the methylation.

I am not sure how much of that I buy into either, but it is something to consider.
Yeah, I take in all of the info, but I take it with a grain of salt. This stuff is still dangerous. But I feel dmz is really great in terms of gains vs sides for oral steroids. Msten made my kidneys sore and my piss darker regardless of water intake. Dmz at high doses just makes me feel great. Of course it still comes with its downsides which I have talked about in my log a bit.
 
Spaniard

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If either of you dudes come across that info will you link me? I'd greatly appreciate it!
 
eddieaz

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Somehow I ended up with a bottle of msten and am thinking I'll run it with trest this winter. I'm 45, 195lbs, 17%bf. How would you guys recommend dosing this? TIA!
 
g0hardorgohom

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Somehow I ended up with a bottle of msten and am thinking I'll run it with trest this winter. I'm 45, 195lbs, 17%bf. How would you guys recommend dosing this? TIA!
What brand of M-Sten?
 
eddieaz

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Assault labs
TR3ST 50/75/75/75/75/75 or DermaTREST 1ml/1ml/1ml/1ml/2ml/2ml
M-Sten 8/12/12/12/12/12

This is how I'd run it but many guys would dose M-Sten higher. I just think longer cycle at lower dose is better than shorter cycle at bigger dose.
 
stann123

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TR3ST 50/75/75/75/75/75 or DermaTREST 1ml/1ml/1ml/1ml/2ml/2ml
M-Sten 8/12/12/12/12/12

This is how I'd run it but many guys would dose M-Sten higher. I just think longer cycle at lower dose is better than shorter cycle at bigger dose.
Ya usually see it ran 20-30mgs. Id think gains would sizzle off 6th week keeping it at 12mg
 
MrKleen73

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Ya usually see it ran 20-30mgs. Id think gains would sizzle off 6th week keeping it at 12mg
I don't think it would fall off too bad considering the healthy dose of TR3ST he would be running with it. What slows most gains down anyway is increased SHBG so simply taking some divanil, testofen, or maca or any SHBG binding supplement could fix that without going into higher more toxic levels. That being said 20-30 isn't crazy either. Just if he wants to follow the slow gains stack GH laid out for him then that would probably be an ideal addition at the end.
 
eddieaz

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I'm just finishing my first ph run. I've been running epi at 45 and stano at 1000. Gains have been good without any real sides. So maybe I'll try ut as suggested and see how it goes. I can always adjust it up during the run. Thanks for all the suggestions guys!

I'm planning on doing a log on it. But that's still a few months out.
 
eddieaz

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I'm just finishing my first ph run. I've been running epi at 45 and stano at 1000. Gains have been good without any real sides. So maybe I'll try ut as suggested and see how it goes. I can always adjust it up during the run. Thanks for all the suggestions guys!

I'm planning on doing a log on it. But that's still a few months out.
 

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