Mk677 warning...

[CroLifter]

Well i didnt start this thread to complain about sides, but to communicate my observations and warn people of potential side effects and present those sides as a possibility.

Nobody gives a f what sides i am experiencing, sure, but general information on what can be expected is imho welcome on a forum discussing the very niche of substances i discuss in the thread.

 

[ValiantThor08]

So, found this!

Pyridoxine (B6) Suppresses the Rise in Prolactin and Increases the Rise in Growth Hormone Induced by Exercise

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198208123070719?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori%3Arid%3Acrossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub++0pubmed

 

[Hyde]

Or just don't take gear anymore since negatives constantly outweigh benefits....

You are being sarcastic, right? I can’t tell over text

 

[Hyde]

So, found this!

Pyridoxine (B6) Suppresses the Rise in Prolactin and Increases the Rise in Growth Hormone Induced by Exercise

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198208123070719?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori%3Arid%3Acrossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub++0pubmed

Awww gotta subscribe to view

 

[Smont]

The problem with B6 is it only works to a minor degree, it's better then nothing but not even close to the lowest dose of caber. 300-500mg along with keeping estro in check will keep prolactin at Bay to some degree, Mainly for weaker 19nors or low doses. But 300-500 mg is also something you probably should not use for long periods of time as I believe it starts to become neurotoxic

 

[CroLifter]

You are being sarcastic, right? I can’t tell over text

No he is right. It is up to every single one of us to decide for ourselves whether sth is worth it or not, it doesnt matter whether that is justified in the eyes of someone else, we as humans are stubborn creatures and are going to do things our way.


On topic, i didnt read @ValiantThor08 's study yet but it was my impression that anything that increases gh production will increase prolactin and vice versa.

Most people may not have issues with prolactin and mk. However those who know me since summer know that i am prone to high prolactin, on test just test my prolactin was 1.5x the high end.


Take a look at this, supposedly all aas are going to elevate prolactin, according to this fella:

18:00 - 19:00

 

[Smont]

Prolactin is a stress hormone. Being stressed can elevate prolactin, putting a stress on the body, even exercise can elevate prolactin, eating has the ability to elevate prolactin, stimulation to the nipples has the ability to elevate prolactin. Literally anything can lol. But there are various degrees of how much each one can do and there's always a different response person to person on how people handle prolactin. Soooooo don't take steroids, don't touch your nipples, don't eat, don't exercise and definitely do not let any form of stress get to you.

And you will be completely safe

 

[CroLifter]

Hahahah @Smont i just wanted to say how evidence suggests that all aas and secretagogues have a tendency to elevate prolactin.

Prolactin is definitely not the devil in absence of high estrogen. High prolactin on itself doesnt cause me any sides, only when e2 is high i get spicy nipples.

 

[Smont]

Hahahah @Smont i just wanted to say how evidence suggests that all aas and secretagogues have a tendency to elevate prolactin.

Prolactin is definitely not the devil in absence of high estrogen. High prolactin on itself doesnt cause me any sides, only when e2 is high i get spicy nipples.

Mine are hurting right now. The flicking mailman better hurry up with my shiznit

 

[SkRaw85]

Spicy nipples

 

[CroLifter]

Mine are hurting right now. The flicking mailman better hurry up with my shiznit

Hahaha i can imagine you waiting for a mailman in your yard frantically opening the package and swallowing a bunch of pills as the tities grow by the hour

Brings back memories of some of my hypo episodes. I sometimes get one even though i never touched insulin. Remember driving on a highway when i suddenly started feeling weak and thirsty (i was also dehydrated). Started losing feeling in my fingers and hands started shaking (blood pressure dropped, i saw lots of blue points). Sped up to nearly 100 mph and pulled over at the nearest village.

I limped my a$$ to the nearest supermarket and bought me fruit juice. All the coins fell on the floor because i couldnt keep my hands still while paying .

 

[Smont]

Hahaha i can imagine you waiting for a mailman in your yard frantically opening the package and swallowing a bunch of pills as the tities grow by the hour

Brings back memories of some of my hypo episodes. I sometimes get one even though i never touched insulin. Remember driving on a highway when i suddenly started feeling weak and thirsty (i was also dehydrated). Started losing feeling in my fingers and hands started shaking (blood pressure dropped, i saw lots of blue points). Sped up to nearly 100 mph and pulled over at the nearest village.

I limped my a$$ to the nearest supermarket and bought me fruit juice. All the coins fell on the floor because i couldnt keep my hands still while paying .

Lol. Mine aren't that bad. Just a little puffy.

 

[Renew1]

Hahaha i can imagine you waiting for a mailman in your yard frantically opening the package and swallowing a bunch of pills as the tities grow by the hour

Brings back memories of some of my hypo episodes. I sometimes get one even though i never touched insulin. Remember driving on a highway when i suddenly started feeling weak and thirsty (i was also dehydrated). Started losing feeling in my fingers and hands started shaking (blood pressure dropped, i saw lots of blue points). Sped up to nearly 100 mph and pulled over at the nearest village.

I limped my a$$ to the nearest supermarket and bought me fruit juice. All the coins fell on the floor because i couldnt keep my hands still while paying .

LOL.
People were looking at you in disgust, thinking:
"Da*n juice addicts"!

 

[Hyde]

No he is right. It is up to every single one of us to decide for ourselves whether sth is worth it or not, it doesnt matter whether that is justified in the eyes of someone else, we as humans are stubborn creatures and are going to do things our way.


On topic, i didnt read @ValiantThor08 's study yet but it was my impression that anything that increases gh production will increase prolactin and vice versa.

Most people may not have issues with prolactin and mk. However those who know me since summer know that i am prone to high prolactin, on test just test my prolactin was 1.5x the high end.


Take a look at this, supposedly all aas are going to elevate prolactin, according to this fella:

18:00 - 19:00

I reread his post and now it does indeed make sense: he was specifically talking to you, not saying everyone. Not sure how I thought otherwise but my bad.

 

[Alchemist11]

You don’t have to live with high prolactin. Take anything that raises it like Mk, CJC, 19-Nors as well as something to lower prolactin - I promise the net gain will still be much greater than having not used the PED.

Same as taking an AI to allow you to run test will produce vastly superior results to not using any test lol. It’s not all or nothing here!

Or just don't take gear anymore since negatives constantly outweigh benefits....

You are being sarcastic, right? I can’t tell over text

Yup

 

[Rebuild]

Prolactin is a stress hormone. Being stressed can elevate prolactin, putting a stress on the body, even exercise can elevate prolactin, eating has the ability to elevate prolactin, stimulation to the nipples has the ability to elevate prolactin. Literally anything can lol. But there are various degrees of how much each one can do and there's always a different response person to person on how people handle prolactin. Soooooo don't take steroids, don't touch your nipples, don't eat, don't exercise and definitely do not let any form of stress get to you.

And you will be completely safe

And definitely don't ejaculate!

 

[CroLifter]

Ok just to bump this thread since i dont feel like starting a new one

Its been 4 weeks since my last 60mg test e injection, 3 weeks since i stopped mk677 and been on clomid for 2 weeks.

I noticed that t shirt around the nipple area was kind of, well, moist

And sure there it is, i got some discharge action going. Leaks out of 2 spots, from the very center and from a spot a little to the left



So why am i typing this?

I just want to clear some things up, as some people suggested that it is NORMAL for a male nipple to produce a little bit of discharge upon pressing.

Is this true?

Or do i have high prolactin going on, which wouldnt be surprising at all, from experience i know that SOB can stay elevated long after discontinuation of drugs, mine tends to sit above 400 (reference 86-324)?

I mean, its not like i am terribly fussed about this discharge, i dont have gyno symptoms (perhaps a liiitle sensitivity most often in the morning but that doesnt necessarily need to be hormonal) and my chest looks perfectly fine.

Simply wondering

 

[Smont]

I'm like 99% sure it's not normal for a man to lactate at all, and prolactin is usually the cause. My best bet/guess would be to use something to lower prolactin. I dont think its serious but should be taken care of

 

[Smont]

Your in pct, correct? Hormones are going all over the place, estrogen and prolactin are probably high, test is probably super low, nipples start spraying like a broken squirt bottle... ahhh the wonderful world of steroids

 

[Heybros1]

People that say you can't get gyno from mk are the same people who think you can't get gyno from steroids that don't convert to estrogen. You mess with hormones you are taking chances

 

[Hyde]

Your prolactin runs on the high side. You are like me but probably worse it sounds like in that regard. And you are in PCT so estro is up, so that combo means lactation in preexisting gyno tissue.

Just take a little AI and something otc to lower prolactin and it’ll clear up.

 

[Whisky]

Agree with Hyde and smont bro, it’s not normal for a man to lactate and high prolactin plus estro likely they cause.

if you are able to get a blood test quickly then I would just to get a benchmark for what levels are causing the lactation so you can try to dial in supports as it’s an ongoing issue for you it seems (I’d be shooting for weekly bloods and logging levels vs what I was taking etc)

 

[CroLifter]

Yes like @Hyde said its probably high prolactin coupled with pre-existing gyno, pubertal one.

I am not in a position to get bw now, but like i said, my prolactin wants to sit in the low 400s, with the reference being 86-324.

I am taking inhibit p but it doesnt seem to be doing much at all.


Most important is that the tissue isnt growing, that tells me that estro likely isnt high, as when both estro and prolactin are high , nipples get sore.

 

[jtbull]

I thought simple ai like arimidex did not lower prolactin?

 

[Smont]

I can't say this is the right thing to do, but if I was in this position, my pct would be ralox at 60mg, exem 12.5 and probably some inhibit p or a high dose of b6. After 4 weeks I'd probably do another 2 with just ralox at 30 to play it safe

 

[CroLifter]

I can't say this is the right thing to do, but if I was in this position, my pct would be ralox at 60mg, exem 12.5 and probably some inhibit p or a high dose of b6. After 4 weeks I'd probably do another 2 with just ralox at 30 to play it safe

12.5 mg exem ed? I would feel like death that would crash my e2 on 500mg of test

Heart disease, osteopenia here we come, lol

 

[Hyde]

I can't say this is the right thing to do, but if I was in this position, my pct would be ralox at 60mg, exem 12.5 and probably some inhibit p or a high dose of b6. After 4 weeks I'd probably do another 2 with just ralox at 30 to play it safe

Ralox doesn’t really work for PCT. Its a SERM, but not particularly with regards to the HPTA. More for breast tissue and bones.

 

[Smont]

Ralox doesn’t really work for PCT. Its a SERM, but not particularly with regards to the HPTA. More for breast tissue and bones.

Added to the clomid. Should of said that

 

[Smont]

12.5 mg exem ed? I would feel like death that would crash my e2 on 500mg of test

Heart disease, osteopenia here we come, lol

Not me, that ralox exem combo is what I used last 2 times my nips were bugging out from 19nors

 

[CroLifter]

Not me, that ralox exem combo is what I used last 2 times my nips were bugging out from 19nors

Interestingly enough i had no issues with both tren and mk677

it must be low androgen/estrogen ratio

Since last clomid dose for this pct last thursday, i took 12.5 mg exem sunday and tuesday, thats my regime, after i discontinue a serm, after a few days, i take few asins to prevent rebound shut down


Also i seem to start feeling ok pretty fast into pct, as fast as a week in and i am fine, with hcg i feel no real "down period" like i did when i tried coming off without hcg.

Problems usually start about a month or even more after discontinuing the serms. Then i start to experience what i would best describe as symptomz of adrenal insufficiency.

Low blood pressure, orthostatic hypotension and that feeling of having not slept for 2 days, feeling like a zombie, as if i am drunk.

 

[Smont]

Interestingly enough i had no issues with both tren and mk677

it must be low androgen/estrogen ratio

Since last clomid dose last thursday, i took 12.5 mg exem sunday and tuesday, thats my regime, after i discontinue a serm, after a few days, i take few asins to prevent rebound shut down


Also i seem to start feeling ok pretty fast into pct, as fast as a week in and i am fine, with hcg i feel no real "down period" like i did when i tried coming off without hcg.

Problems usually start about a month or even more after discontinuing the serms. Then i start to experience what i would best describe as symptomz of adrenal insufficiency.

Low blood pressure, orthostatic hypotension and that feeling of having not slept for 2 days, feeling like a zombie, as if i am drunk.

Yikes!

 

[Smont]

That feeling of orthostatic hypotension is when you get dizzy when you stand up correct? I get that often but my bp is normal

 

[CroLifter]

That feeling of orthostatic hypotension is when you get dizzy when you stand up correct? I get that often but my bp is normal

Yeah its normal to get it from time to time but when i start to shut down its all the time. Another side i get is extremely low heart rate. I once measured 36, i freaked out. As if my body is slowly shutting down. I am sure it is adrenal related, as it likely isnt thyroid, as my body temperature is normal.

Its not related to total testosterone as when i took mk677 it cleared my symptoms and my resting heart rate rose back to 60s.

 

[Smont]

Ya, I'm completely stumped on that, dosen't sound normal at all

 

[Smont]

For shits and giggles I was doing a little reading on raloxifene in regards to raising testosterone. Looks like you need 120mg a day just to get a 15-20% increase in testosterone. But at 60-90mg still increases LH and FSH by 21-29%, free testosterone by 16% and seems to be good for bone health as well. Does anyone know how this pans out while on steroids vs not on steroids? I dont know how to post links, I'm a techretarded... but if you google raloxifene and free testosterone it's where I started digging and eventually ended up somewhere down the rabbit hole

 

[jtbull]

will b6 help at all with deca or npp?

 

[Smont]

If those numbers pan out on cycle it seems like a somewhat replacement for hc

will b6 help at all with deca or npp?

It does for a select few ppl, but I'd say more as a precautionary measure. If your already experiencing prolactin problems I'd highly doubt the b6 will fix it

 

[Smont]

Dont mind the first part, it was part of a earlier post that somehow got thrown in there lol

 

[Codybenz]

Not me, that ralox exem combo is what I used last 2 times my nips were bugging out from 19nors

Theoretically speaking if you were on a 19nor and had sore nips. But you were already taking caber and Arimidex. Anything else worth throwing in to help combat this?

 

[Smont]

Theoretically speaking if you were on a 19nor and had sore nips. But you were already taking caber and Arimidex. Anything else worth throwing in to help combat this?

Idk, I'd think caber is your strongest weapon against this. If I use a 19nor again, I will have prami or caber, ralox and exem in place from day 1

 

[jtbull]

If those numbers pan out on cycle it seems like a somewhat replacement for hc

It does for a select few ppl, but I'd say more as a precautionary measure. If your already experiencing prolactin problems I'd highly doubt the b6 will fix it

Never ran deca before. Never had acne or gyne from up to 600mg test. Also deca/npp blend i have will be no more than 450 a week or every 10 days as it will be a shot every 3 days

 

[CroLifter]

For shits and giggles I was doing a little reading on raloxifene in regards to raising testosterone. Looks like you need 120mg a day just to get a 15-20% increase in testosterone. But at 60-90mg still increases LH and FSH by 21-29%, free testosterone by 16% and seems to be good for bone health as well. Does anyone know how this pans out while on steroids vs not on steroids? I dont know how to post links, I'm a techretarded... but if you google raloxifene and free testosterone it's where I started digging and eventually ended up somewhere down the rabbit hole

I woudnt run a serm to get a 20% boost in test. I mean if i am taking drugs then may as well iniect 200mg of test a week, i reckon that would be way healthier than eating a bunch of synthetic estrogen pills every day.

Serms also increase risk of thrombosis. I would advise against you doing it.

Besides, 20% boost tin test wont do anything for muscle growth or fat loss, otherwise natty test boosters would make people bigger, and we all know they dont.

It takes a significant boost in testosterone to notice body composition changes.

Testosterone fluctuates more thrpughout the day than what ralox would provide, and we cant notice it at all.

 

[Smont]

I woudnt run a serm to get a 20% boost in test. I mean if i am taking drugs then may as well iniect 200mg of test a week, i reckon that would be way healthier than eating a bunch of synthetic estrogen pills every day.

Serms also increase risk of thrombosis. I would advise against you doing it.

Besides, 20% boost tin test wont do anything for muscle growth or fat loss, otherwise natty test boosters would make people bigger, and we all know they dont.

It takes a significant boost in testosterone to notice body composition changes.

Testosterone fluctuates more thrpughout the day than what ralox would provide, and we cant notice it at all.

It's not going to boost testosterone on cycle, I'm talking about boosting LH, FSH and freeing up bound testosterone, this would be comparable to what low doses of HCG and proviron do on cycle.

 

[Smont]

Raloxifene also seems to be far far less dangerous then other serms.

Nowhere am I implying that I'm going to use a serm on cycle for no reason. Just talking and trying to understand this stuff.

 

[CroLifter]

It's not going to boost testosterone on cycle, I'm talking about boosting LH, FSH and freeing up bound testosterone, this would be comparable to what low doses of HCG and proviron do on cycle.

But it raises free tes tbecause it raises total test through negative feedback

I think hcg is the best on cycle as it can deliver a strong signal to the testes, much stronger than some half suppressed hypothalamus could.

 

[Smont]

Completely disregard the total testosterone boost from ralox. I'm not intrested in that as it's useless on cycle. Just the other aspects seem interesting to me

 

[CroLifter]

Completely disregard the total testosterone boost from ralox. I'm not intrested in that as it's useless on cycle. Just the other aspects seem interesting to me

No i actually was talking about doing it off cycle, on cycle totally pointless unless you got gyno going.

 

[Smont]

But it raises free tes tbecause it raises total test through negative feedback

I think hcg is the best on cycle as it can deliver a strong signal to the testes, much stronger than some half suppressed hypothalamus could.

Ok that makes sense. I personally dont like HCG on cycle but that's because I dont seem to need it. No matter what I have taken they dont shrink and my sperm count and all that stuff stays normal. No clue why

 

[Codybenz]

Ok that makes sense. I personally dont like HCG on cycle but that's because I dont seem to need it. No matter what I have taken they dont shrink and my sperm count and all that stuff stays normal. No clue why

You should change your name to super nuts

 

[Smont]

You should change your name to super nuts

Lol, I've been searching for a explanation or anything relating to that subject for years and the only thing I've ever found was a clip of greg Valentino saying his nuts never shrank with all the gear hes done. But I can't find anyone else talk about it or any reason why some people's dont on gear