hamper19
The True Warrior is one who conquers oneself
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what is that?
Dwight Schrute
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Trying to find out. Some people say its 17-aa, some say its not. I'm trying to find out the toxicity and dosage issues but there really isn't much on it.
hamper19
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there isn't much on it. Some guy had some post in the archives of FG board but ther person who started the thread
says methyl trenbelone, but the person responding keeps saying its something else. Not sure if he realized what the other guy was saying.
says methyl trenbelone, but the person responding keeps saying its something else. Not sure if he realized what the other guy was saying.
Dwight Schrute
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Yeah I've seen almost every post from everyone on the subject and I still can't get any solid conclusions. Fear not, I'm working on it 
crazypete
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Dwight Schrute
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No, its not Methyltrienolone. The doses of that is in mcg and its extremely potent and toxic. This is not the same substance.
wardog
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Methyl tren:
Methyltrenbolone, also known as methyltrienolone, is a 17-alpha alkylated compound with a basic methyl group attached to the 17th carbon on the trenbolone molecule. This tweak causes the steroid to be able to bypass at least the first round of liver degradation. Methyltrienolone is a VERY potent androgen, some several 10's of times stronger than testosterone in that regard. Worth noting about methyltrienolone is that in clinical trials it shows extremely poor binding to androgen receptors. It also causes a extensive increase in a steroid deactivating enzyme that is largely the cause of deactivation of DHT2. From what I can gather about liver toxicity, you would probably do more damage with 10mg of methyltrienolone ED than you would with 50mg Halotestin + 300mg Anadrol + 1gram Dbol per day. The liver toxicity of this compound is off the charts! I have never known anybody who has taken this, and I probably never will, because frankly, anyone who uses this compound will not live long enough to tell me about it. Should you not heed my warning about this one, make sure you have ample amounts of Vitamin B6, Milk Thistle, ALA, and drink 1-2 gallons of Gatorade per day. You will need to use every trick in the book to keep yourself from going into acute liver failure. Say, for arguements sake, that you do not die from taking this, you will most surely end up with prostate problems as this steroid is notorious in the scientific literature for causing abrupt changes in the prostate
More info:
Brands & Products: Originally produced by Negma, but never approved for production.
Characteristics:
Methyltrienolone is structurally similar to trenbolone (Parabolan/Finaplix), a well-liked and powerful androgen that does not aromatize to estrogen. The difference is the attachment of a 17-alpha-methyl group for oral activity. So one could refer to methyltrienolone as oral trenbolone. It was first explored quite some time ago by Negma in France, the same company that marketed Parabolan (trenbolone). But the drug was never approved by the French government and was hence never produced. The reason was extreme hepatoxicity. Bill Roberts, the biochemist, once commented that taking methyltrienolone made taking insane doses of anadrol and Halotestin together look mild on the liver. While I was unable to find anything in the literature that describes the extent of the liver toxicity, it's a generally accepted fact. That's also why, to the dissapointment of many, you will never find a commercially marketed methyltrienolone product. Its only sold in bulk to labs and universities for research studies involving androgens.
Mainly because (and those who wish it was available will wish so even more now) its such a potent androgen. There is some conflicting information in that regard however. Organic chemist Patrick Arnold, head of LPJ research, once stated that methyltrienolone was the most powerful steroid ever, and that statement has been blown out of proportion and taken on a life of its own. While androgenically a very potent steroid, methyltrienolone is still basically trenbolone with a 17-alpha-methyl group. A group that has the tendency to actually reduce the androgenic potency. So it may actually be somewhat milder than trenbolone, on the contrary to what many pseudo steroid guru's are now claiming after reading Pat Arnold's statement. I can't find any other documented effects of the 17-alpha-alkylation influencing androgen binding in a positive way. It's a potent androgen, with more binding than even DHT2, but the study that claims that is mild at the very best about quantifications, whereas people have used the term 1000 times more powerful than testosterone, which is surely exaggerated.
What is interesting is that it seems to show nearly no binding for sex-hormone binding proteins, which makes it a popular choice in androgen receptor studies3, since it will demonstrate equal binding in all tissues regardless of the presence and amount of these proteins. No doubt this plays a role in its supposed binding capacity. In this instance the 17-alpha-alkylation may have played a key role, since it has been demonstrated a multitude of times that 17-alpha-methyl groups decrease the binding for sex-hormone binding proteins as well as most other structures, and due to its triple double bond, trenbolone really didn't bind well to these to begin with.
One of the findings made in clinical tests with methyltrienolone was the discovery of high amounts of the DHT-deactivating enzyme 3alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in muscle tissue4. Once again proof that God meant to keep us humans weak. Hurray for science. Follow-up studies then went on to show that DHT nonetheless showed similar binding in the prostate, and showing little or no presence of the deactivating enzyme. So God would rather have us all die of prostate cancer than gain a few ounces of muscle. It's a comforting thought, no?
What methyltrienolone, despite its amazing capacity, still doesn't overcome are the basic problems with any 19Nor compound. First of all its effects on libido. Methyltrienolone still seems to affect our sex drive in such a potent manner that the dreaded Deca Dick (temporary impotence) is a very real threat5. Another is that it still binds almost equipotently to the progesterone receptor3. The latter would be of little concern as long as no circulating estrogen is present since methyltrienolone does not aromatize, but could cause problems such as aggravating water retention and gyno (growth of breast tissue in men) if combined with an aromatizing androgen or an estrogen.
While many may wish that an incredibly strong androgenic, non-aromatizing compound as this was available for daily use, its not. And if the indications are true, its probably best. I've warned many people for the toxicity of fluoxymesterone, and everything points to it that methyltrienolone makes fluoxymesterone look like Tums tablets in terms of liver toxicity.
Stacking and Use:
Obviously this section is mostly useless, as any who would use, let alone stack methyltrienolone for any decent period of time, wouldn't really be around long enough to tell us how well it worked. Ideally one would use it alone, while dieting or for the purpose of gaining lean mass. The androgenic potency is slightly higher than that of trenbolone, so the risk for aggravated hair loss, acne, prostate hypertrophy and deepening of voice is not only realistic, but almost likely. If one were to use it, you would probably have to use every trick in the book to protect your liver and stay alive: Alpha Lipoic Acid, Milk thistle, dessicated liver and Vitamin B6. The blood pressure raise would not be mild either. So something to lower blood pressure is advised as well.
Of course the best advice is to refrain from using such a compound, although for 99% of the population that is not a problem, and I would assume that the 1% that does have access would know better.
References
2 Bonne C, Raynaud JP. Methyltrienolone, a specific ligand for cellular androgen receptors. Steroids 1975 Aug;26(2):227-32
3 Dube JY, Tremblay RR, Chapdelaine P. Binding of methyltrienolone to various androgen-dependent and androgen-responsive tissues in four animal species. Horm Res 1976;7(6):333-40
4 Tremblay RR, Dube JY, Ho-Kim MA, Lesage R. Determination of rat muscles androgen-receptor complexes with methyltrienolone. Steroids 1977 Feb;29(2):185-95
5 Baum MJ, Kingsbury PA, Erskine MS. Failure of the synthetic androgen 17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-estra-4,9,11-triene-3-one (methyltrienolone, R1881) to duplicate the activational effect of testosterone on mating in castrated male rats. J Endocrinol 1987 Apr;113(1):15-20
Methyltrenbolone, also known as methyltrienolone, is a 17-alpha alkylated compound with a basic methyl group attached to the 17th carbon on the trenbolone molecule. This tweak causes the steroid to be able to bypass at least the first round of liver degradation. Methyltrienolone is a VERY potent androgen, some several 10's of times stronger than testosterone in that regard. Worth noting about methyltrienolone is that in clinical trials it shows extremely poor binding to androgen receptors. It also causes a extensive increase in a steroid deactivating enzyme that is largely the cause of deactivation of DHT2. From what I can gather about liver toxicity, you would probably do more damage with 10mg of methyltrienolone ED than you would with 50mg Halotestin + 300mg Anadrol + 1gram Dbol per day. The liver toxicity of this compound is off the charts! I have never known anybody who has taken this, and I probably never will, because frankly, anyone who uses this compound will not live long enough to tell me about it. Should you not heed my warning about this one, make sure you have ample amounts of Vitamin B6, Milk Thistle, ALA, and drink 1-2 gallons of Gatorade per day. You will need to use every trick in the book to keep yourself from going into acute liver failure. Say, for arguements sake, that you do not die from taking this, you will most surely end up with prostate problems as this steroid is notorious in the scientific literature for causing abrupt changes in the prostate
More info:
Brands & Products: Originally produced by Negma, but never approved for production.
Characteristics:
Methyltrienolone is structurally similar to trenbolone (Parabolan/Finaplix), a well-liked and powerful androgen that does not aromatize to estrogen. The difference is the attachment of a 17-alpha-methyl group for oral activity. So one could refer to methyltrienolone as oral trenbolone. It was first explored quite some time ago by Negma in France, the same company that marketed Parabolan (trenbolone). But the drug was never approved by the French government and was hence never produced. The reason was extreme hepatoxicity. Bill Roberts, the biochemist, once commented that taking methyltrienolone made taking insane doses of anadrol and Halotestin together look mild on the liver. While I was unable to find anything in the literature that describes the extent of the liver toxicity, it's a generally accepted fact. That's also why, to the dissapointment of many, you will never find a commercially marketed methyltrienolone product. Its only sold in bulk to labs and universities for research studies involving androgens.
Mainly because (and those who wish it was available will wish so even more now) its such a potent androgen. There is some conflicting information in that regard however. Organic chemist Patrick Arnold, head of LPJ research, once stated that methyltrienolone was the most powerful steroid ever, and that statement has been blown out of proportion and taken on a life of its own. While androgenically a very potent steroid, methyltrienolone is still basically trenbolone with a 17-alpha-methyl group. A group that has the tendency to actually reduce the androgenic potency. So it may actually be somewhat milder than trenbolone, on the contrary to what many pseudo steroid guru's are now claiming after reading Pat Arnold's statement. I can't find any other documented effects of the 17-alpha-alkylation influencing androgen binding in a positive way. It's a potent androgen, with more binding than even DHT2, but the study that claims that is mild at the very best about quantifications, whereas people have used the term 1000 times more powerful than testosterone, which is surely exaggerated.
What is interesting is that it seems to show nearly no binding for sex-hormone binding proteins, which makes it a popular choice in androgen receptor studies3, since it will demonstrate equal binding in all tissues regardless of the presence and amount of these proteins. No doubt this plays a role in its supposed binding capacity. In this instance the 17-alpha-alkylation may have played a key role, since it has been demonstrated a multitude of times that 17-alpha-methyl groups decrease the binding for sex-hormone binding proteins as well as most other structures, and due to its triple double bond, trenbolone really didn't bind well to these to begin with.
One of the findings made in clinical tests with methyltrienolone was the discovery of high amounts of the DHT-deactivating enzyme 3alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in muscle tissue4. Once again proof that God meant to keep us humans weak. Hurray for science. Follow-up studies then went on to show that DHT nonetheless showed similar binding in the prostate, and showing little or no presence of the deactivating enzyme. So God would rather have us all die of prostate cancer than gain a few ounces of muscle. It's a comforting thought, no?
What methyltrienolone, despite its amazing capacity, still doesn't overcome are the basic problems with any 19Nor compound. First of all its effects on libido. Methyltrienolone still seems to affect our sex drive in such a potent manner that the dreaded Deca Dick (temporary impotence) is a very real threat5. Another is that it still binds almost equipotently to the progesterone receptor3. The latter would be of little concern as long as no circulating estrogen is present since methyltrienolone does not aromatize, but could cause problems such as aggravating water retention and gyno (growth of breast tissue in men) if combined with an aromatizing androgen or an estrogen.
While many may wish that an incredibly strong androgenic, non-aromatizing compound as this was available for daily use, its not. And if the indications are true, its probably best. I've warned many people for the toxicity of fluoxymesterone, and everything points to it that methyltrienolone makes fluoxymesterone look like Tums tablets in terms of liver toxicity.
Stacking and Use:
Obviously this section is mostly useless, as any who would use, let alone stack methyltrienolone for any decent period of time, wouldn't really be around long enough to tell us how well it worked. Ideally one would use it alone, while dieting or for the purpose of gaining lean mass. The androgenic potency is slightly higher than that of trenbolone, so the risk for aggravated hair loss, acne, prostate hypertrophy and deepening of voice is not only realistic, but almost likely. If one were to use it, you would probably have to use every trick in the book to protect your liver and stay alive: Alpha Lipoic Acid, Milk thistle, dessicated liver and Vitamin B6. The blood pressure raise would not be mild either. So something to lower blood pressure is advised as well.
Of course the best advice is to refrain from using such a compound, although for 99% of the population that is not a problem, and I would assume that the 1% that does have access would know better.
References
2 Bonne C, Raynaud JP. Methyltrienolone, a specific ligand for cellular androgen receptors. Steroids 1975 Aug;26(2):227-32
3 Dube JY, Tremblay RR, Chapdelaine P. Binding of methyltrienolone to various androgen-dependent and androgen-responsive tissues in four animal species. Horm Res 1976;7(6):333-40
4 Tremblay RR, Dube JY, Ho-Kim MA, Lesage R. Determination of rat muscles androgen-receptor complexes with methyltrienolone. Steroids 1977 Feb;29(2):185-95
5 Baum MJ, Kingsbury PA, Erskine MS. Failure of the synthetic androgen 17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-estra-4,9,11-triene-3-one (methyltrienolone, R1881) to duplicate the activational effect of testosterone on mating in castrated male rats. J Endocrinol 1987 Apr;113(1):15-20
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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The man's Methyl tren is not methyltrienolone.
wardog
Active member
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How do you figure Bobo?
Methyltrienolone is structurally similar to trenbolone (Parabolan/Finaplix), a well-liked and powerful androgen that does not aromatize to estrogen. The difference is the attachment of a 17-alpha-methyl group for oral activity
IP stated over on 'bolex I believe, that it IS the same as the Negma product....
Methyltrienolone is structurally similar to trenbolone (Parabolan/Finaplix), a well-liked and powerful androgen that does not aromatize to estrogen. The difference is the attachment of a 17-alpha-methyl group for oral activity
IP stated over on 'bolex I believe, that it IS the same as the Negma product....
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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Because Methyltrienolone doses are in mcg, not mg. I saw that post and they were discussing the the toxicity if I remember because people were saying it was so toxic and he said it wasn't. I went through so many its tough to remember which one.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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Found this:
"There seems to be confusion reguarding this. This is NOT methyltrienolone!!!!
How do I know?? Well the dosing for one. I believe the tabs are in mg, and that would probally kill your liver in 2-3 days as methyltrienolone is very strong and dosed in the mcg range.
So whats the difference? Methyltrienolone is 17-aa-Trenbolone
The methyl tren that you speak of is Methylated Tren (Like oral primo). This just somewhat slows down the destruction process of liver metabolism. Because of this, I do not believe it will be very harsh on your liver. Ive never used it, and dont really see a reason to, as the injectable is stronger and readily available. It could be a needle free alternative though. Im not sure of what the bioavalibility would be, but perhaps 50-60% would be my guess, whereas injecting is 100 and oral is about 10. That is more or less my hunch, take it as you will."
"There seems to be confusion reguarding this. This is NOT methyltrienolone!!!!
How do I know?? Well the dosing for one. I believe the tabs are in mg, and that would probally kill your liver in 2-3 days as methyltrienolone is very strong and dosed in the mcg range.
So whats the difference? Methyltrienolone is 17-aa-Trenbolone
The methyl tren that you speak of is Methylated Tren (Like oral primo). This just somewhat slows down the destruction process of liver metabolism. Because of this, I do not believe it will be very harsh on your liver. Ive never used it, and dont really see a reason to, as the injectable is stronger and readily available. It could be a needle free alternative though. Im not sure of what the bioavalibility would be, but perhaps 50-60% would be my guess, whereas injecting is 100 and oral is about 10. That is more or less my hunch, take it as you will."
hamper19
The True Warrior is one who conquers oneself
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sooooo...did we come up with anything?
wardog
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Pharmaceutical Name: Methyltrienolone
Chemical structure: 17-methylestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one,17b-ol
Molecular weight of base: 284.3974
Effective dose: 5-15 mg / day
Average Street-price: Only available for research purposes.
Available Doses: None
Chemical structure: 17-methylestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one,17b-ol
Molecular weight of base: 284.3974
Effective dose: 5-15 mg / day
Average Street-price: Only available for research purposes.
Available Doses: None
Dwight Schrute
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This is the problem I've been encountering the last few days. I don't know what to believe.
crazypete
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the dose listed in the profile is 5-15mg, someone said it was 1000 times as powerful as test, however i think this is a mistake arising from the microgram dose which is one thousandth of a mg. if one looks at the dose in mg given, then it makes sense that it is stronger than test if 5-15mg is enough. it seems to be a few times stronger, not a few orders of magnitude. i mean could it really be 1000 times stronger than tren, i don't think so. i don't really know, but it seems that it is exagerated. i believe i saw this compound in one of the text i was looking through when i was trying to get the 4ad to test reaction and it stated that it was 19 times more androgenic than test and very dangerous. the reason it seems to ring a bell is because i could swear that i recalled it being tren with 17aa and thinking hey tren has no 17aa, but i could be wrong, i'll look into it.
cheers, pete
cheers, pete
Dwight Schrute
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Agreed Pete. I just don't know what to beleive because for the past few days I can't find anything concrete on the subject. Some say it is 17-aa, some say itys not. I wish the man would come here and explain. LOL
wardog
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Perkins-Elmens sells it in 5mg and 20 mg tabs..
Life Sciences Home > Products & Services > Methyltrienolone (R1881*)
Methyltrienolone (R1881*)
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Storage Conditions: Store at -20°C.
Shipping Method/Carrier: Air/Airborne, ground if local to Boston.
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NLP005005MG Methyltrienolone (R1881*); 5mg
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NLP005020MG Methyltrienolone (R1881*); 20mg
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Life Sciences Home > Products & Services > Methyltrienolone (R1881*)
Methyltrienolone (R1881*)
Product List/Request Info
Shipping Conditions: Shipped ambient.
Storage Conditions: Store at -20°C.
Shipping Method/Carrier: Air/Airborne, ground if local to Boston.
Additional Information: Solid.
Product No. Product Name Request Info
NLP005005MG Methyltrienolone (R1881*); 5mg
Request Info
NLP005020MG Methyltrienolone (R1881*); 20mg
Request Info
Products & Services | Contact Us
Copyright © 1998-2002 PerkinElmer, Inc. All rights reserved.
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Dwight Schrute
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Bingo. Thanks dog....
crazypete
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i just hope no one is dumb enough to try this
Dwight Schrute
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I wonder how toxic it really is. THe whole hepatoxicity issue is so overblow but this still sounds scary.
crazypete
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like i said, the steroid chemistry text commented on hepatoxicity, while making few such remarks about other steroids, i will look into it to confirm it for you
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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Yeah. I mean according to some Anadrol should never be used due to its hepatoxicity but we know thats overblown. Just wondering if the same applies here.
John Benz
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And just how do we know that? I wouldn't take anadrol if you bought me some and shipped it post paid.
WYD02
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Ok, then send it to me....
lol
WYD
lol
WYD
crazypete
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RODD'S CHEMISTRY OF CARBON COMPOUNDS, VOL.2D, 2nd EDITION
p. 273
says it is 50 times as androgenic as methyltestosterone, no comment on toxicity, i guess i was wrong
the above is not a misprint as i looked up the study in the journal stack, unfortunately it is in french and i don't have the time to translate the whole thing (my french is rusty since i haven't taken it in 8 years).
will keep you guys informed if i find anything else.
cheers, pete
p. 273
says it is 50 times as androgenic as methyltestosterone, no comment on toxicity, i guess i was wrong
the above is not a misprint as i looked up the study in the journal stack, unfortunately it is in french and i don't have the time to translate the whole thing (my french is rusty since i haven't taken it in 8 years).
will keep you guys informed if i find anything else.
cheers, pete
Dwight Schrute
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Thanks a bunch Pete. Now we're really up in the air about toxicity. Your not wrong at all as everything I can find says it is extremely toxic. Of course its all opinion. If you find anything else, definetly let us know. Thanks again...
crazypete
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found out how to make it. any bids?
maybe i should be an underground lab. what's IGF1 go for?
just kidding on the producing it, but the reactions seem easy enough.
if anyone is interested in this stuff and has the background, go to a university library at a school that has had a good science program for a while, preferably since the 30's or 40's. they will have every reaction for every compound somewhere within that building. from there on in you're on your own.
maybe i should be an underground lab. what's IGF1 go for?
just kidding on the producing it, but the reactions seem easy enough.
if anyone is interested in this stuff and has the background, go to a university library at a school that has had a good science program for a while, preferably since the 30's or 40's. they will have every reaction for every compound somewhere within that building. from there on in you're on your own.
Dwight Schrute
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Well its is fairly cheap anyway since the dosage is so small. Its just the toxicity I'm wondering about.
crazypete
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the "scientific name" seems to be 9,11-Bisdehydro-17?-methyl-19-nortestosterone
the ? is an alpha, couldn't find the right symbol
hope this helps for literature research, i'll still keep my eyes open for this info
the ? is an alpha, couldn't find the right symbol
hope this helps for literature research, i'll still keep my eyes open for this info
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