Max Protein consumption in one meal

[fireworkz788]

I’ve read so many different things saying 25-35 grams is the most your body can absorb in a single sitting.
Have you guys found this to be true?
What do you cap the protein at?

From an evolutionary stand point it dosen’t make sense to me. But I didn’t get my degree in biology I got it in anthropology.

 

[TheMrMuscle]

A good read on this is "Nutritional Recommendations for Physique Athletes" which you can find here

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7052702/

In short 40g seems to top out our MPS, so it might be beneficial to aim for 40g per meal.

 

[Resolve10]

The study linked above is a good overview. It will be more comprehensive than my (probably too long) post and have references for further reading if you wish.

It depends on "why" when you ask this question and it is probably why people do end up confused or people push weird "you can only absorb this much protiein!#!!" type statements.

It seems there is a "cap" for total daily intake that going above does not seem to improve muscular hypertrophy gains, as well as a minimum over the course of a day one must try to hit for benefits as well (these are debatable but settle near the easy to remember 1g/lb most use).

From that we also seem to see that timing doesn't have a huge benefit once this is met, so it appears that spreading that evenly throughout the day (which should hopefully cover the pre and post windows) would be prudent. Therefore just take your total intake and divide it evenly by the meals you have per day.

That doesn't really answer your question (I didn't forget!) though. We see in some studies that show a certain amount of protein "maxes" out MPS, which tends to be where you get these limits of "only" so much per meal. This is problematic for a few reasons.

Getting stuck on the MPS response of protein is understandable (gains!), but tends to miss some of the other possible (which maybe aren't fully teased out in research yet) of higher protein intake past this theoretical limit. Protein provides a high Thermic Effect (TFE) so eating more may be beneficial in regards to burning more calories for a given intake as well. This relates to and also leads to the idea that Protein also is more satiating. Higher intakes may help manage total caloric intake better even if it isn't giving a direct benefit to muscle gains by its increase. If you eat more than is theoretically beneficial for MPS I wouldn't take that to mean it is "wasted".

We do tend to see that protein is more important in periods of weight loss (deficit) with the demands increasing. This should point out that max consumption is probably not a static number either. Changing demands in training, total intake of other macronutrients, athlete training age (and actual age), weight (muscle mass), etc. an all have effect on this number. This just goes towards an idea you can't pin point one single limit to max intake number.

Sorry I got writing and just kind of kept going. I think this is an interesting topic (maximizing intake), but tends to be looked at too narrowly. So TLDR:

1) I wouldn't worry about a cap, even if you ate more than what is theoretically beneficial for hypertrophy there may be other benefits and it isn't "wasted" or just automatically not absorbed.
2) If worried just aim for generally recommended upon total intakes and divide it by number of meals you eat per day. This should preferably be evenly spread and not too many or too little.

 

[aaronuconn]

Great posts above me, I’ll just add my $0.02.

How much protein can the body use in a single meal for muscle-building? Implications for daily protein distribution - Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition

Controversy exists about the maximum amount of protein that can be utilized for lean tissue-building purposes in a single meal for those involved in regimented resistance training. It has been proposed that muscle protein synthesis is maximized in young adults with an intake of ~ 20–25 g of a...

jissn.biomedcentral.com

“Based on the current evidence, we conclude that to maximize anabolism one should consume protein at a target intake of 0.4 g/kg/meal across a minimum of four meals in order to reach a minimum of 1.6 g/kg/day. Using the upper daily intake of 2.2 g/kg/day reported in the literature spread out over the same four meals would necessitate a maximum of 0.55 g/kg/meal.”

So if you’re 200lbs/90kgs, then 36-49.5g of protein per meal if eating 4 meals.



Another good read using 3.4g/kg of protein.

The effects of heavy resistance training and a high protein diet (3.4g/kg/d) on body composition, exercise performance and indices of health in resistance-trained individuals - a follow-up investigation - Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition

jissn.biomedcentral.com

“Consuming a very high protein diet (3.4g per kg daily) in conjunction with a heavy resistance-training program may confer benefits with regards to body composition. Furthermore, there is no evidence that consuming a high protein diet causes any adverse effects.”

 

[Resolve10]

Great posts above me, I’ll just add my $0.02.

How much protein can the body use in a single meal for muscle-building? Implications for daily protein distribution - Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition

Controversy exists about the maximum amount of protein that can be utilized for lean tissue-building purposes in a single meal for those involved in regimented resistance training. It has been proposed that muscle protein synthesis is maximized in young adults with an intake of ~ 20–25 g of a...

jissn.biomedcentral.com

“Based on the current evidence, we conclude that to maximize anabolism one should consume protein at a target intake of 0.4 g/kg/meal across a minimum of four meals in order to reach a minimum of 1.6 g/kg/day. Using the upper daily intake of 2.2 g/kg/day reported in the literature spread out over the same four meals would necessitate a maximum of 0.55 g/kg/meal.”

So if you’re 200lbs/90kgs, then 36-49.5g of protein per meal if eating 4 meals.



Another good read using 3.4g/kg of protein.

The effects of heavy resistance training and a high protein diet (3.4g/kg/d) on body composition, exercise performance and indices of health in resistance-trained individuals - a follow-up investigation - Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition

jissn.biomedcentral.com

“Consuming a very high protein diet (3.4g per kg daily) in conjunction with a heavy resistance-training program may confer benefits with regards to body composition. Furthermore, there is no evidence that consuming a high protein diet causes any adverse effects.”

Ya I didn't put any values but I usually recommend .3-.4g/kg in 3-5 meals per day as a pretty easy to shoot for baseline.

 

[SweetLou321]

The study linked above is a good overview. It will be more comprehensive than my (probably too long) post and have references for further reading if you wish.

It depends on "why" when you ask this question and it is probably why people do end up confused or people push weird "you can only absorb this much protiein!#!!" type statements.

It seems there is a "cap" for total daily intake that going above does not seem to improve muscular hypertrophy gains, as well as a minimum over the course of a day one must try to hit for benefits as well (these are debatable but settle near the easy to remember 1g/lb most use).

From that we also seem to see that timing doesn't have a huge benefit once this is met, so it appears that spreading that evenly throughout the day (which should hopefully cover the pre and post windows) would be prudent. Therefore just take your total intake and divide it evenly by the meals you have per day.

That doesn't really answer your question (I didn't forget!) though. We see in some studies that show a certain amount of protein "maxes" out MPS, which tends to be where you get these limits of "only" so much per meal. This is problematic for a few reasons.

Getting stuck on the MPS response of protein is understandable (gains!), but tends to miss some of the other possible (which maybe aren't fully teased out in research yet) of higher protein intake past this theoretical limit. Protein provides a high Thermic Effect (TFE) so eating more may be beneficial in regards to burning more calories for a given intake as well. This relates to and also leads to the idea that Protein also is more satiating. Higher intakes may help manage total caloric intake better even if it isn't giving a direct benefit to muscle gains by its increase. If you eat more than is theoretically beneficial for MPS I wouldn't take that to mean it is "wasted".

We do tend to see that protein is more important in periods of weight loss (deficit) with the demands increasing. This should point out that max consumption is probably not a static number either. Changing demands in training, total intake of other macronutrients, athlete training age (and actual age), weight (muscle mass), etc. an all have effect on this number. This just goes towards an idea you can't pin point one single limit to max intake number.

Sorry I got writing and just kind of kept going. I think this is an interesting topic (maximizing intake), but tends to be looked at too narrowly. So TLDR:

1) I wouldn't worry about a cap, even if you ate more than what is theoretically beneficial for hypertrophy there may be other benefits and it isn't "wasted" or just automatically not absorbed.
2) If worried just aim for generally recommended upon total intakes and divide it by number of meals you eat per day. This should preferably be evenly spread and not too many or too little.

Hypertrophy specific effects seem to be maximized at around 1.6g per KG bw, moving 2 standard deviations from this puts a good minimum for most for total daily intake at 1.8g per KG bw for protein.

When it comes to body comp, there is a little data that suggests as high as 3.4g per KG bw can lead to the same hypertrophy as lower intakes but more fat loss even at a higher total caloric intake.

Per meal, when it comes to MPS, it is not so straight forward. For most mean 20-40g of high quality high EAA containing protein will maximize MPS when not in a fasted state or post-wo. Higher intakes per meal when not fasted or post-wo up to 70g or so may not increase MPS more but they have been shown to lower MPB more, every little bit in this regard counts when establishing a favorable MP state overtime, which is important when it comes to building muscle. When fasted for a long period of time, our sensitivity to the anabolic response of a meal is increased and we could likely benefit from more then 20-40g when it comes to MPS in a single sitting. Post-wo is another period where the body is more sensitive to the anabolic response of a meal and more protein then 20-40g is likely to benefit MPS. I am not talking about the anabolic window of 1 hr most "bros" will talk about. I am talking about the 6-72+ hr period post resistance training in which MPS signaling can be elevated more above baseline due to the delay in the muscle full effect that. Eating higher protein meals in this "window" can help maximize muscle growth after each bout of resistance training. The muscle full effect is basically the limit of how much EAA can be used to stimulate maximum MPS. Resistance training increases this effect. The less trained your are the more this window will lean towards 72+ hrs post resistance training and the more trained you are the more this window will lean towards 6-48 hrs post resistance training.

For the OP:

-3 Meals is likely the minimum you should aim for. 4-5 may be more ideal.
-Spacing them out is likely best since most of us will benefit from more MPS spikes during the post resistance training period that lasts some time.
-Per meal protein as high as 70g of protein will both maximize MPS and lower MPB, 20-40g is likely enough to maximize MPS
-At least 1.8g of protein per KG bw for muscle growth, but up to 3.4g of protein per KG bw could offer some body comp benefits overtime
-The best time to eat really high protein meals is in the 6-72 hr period after resistance training, closer to the 6-48 hours if more well trained

 

[Resolve10]

-The best time to eat really high protein meals is in the 6-72 hr period after resistance training, closer to the 6-48 hours if more well trained

So basically eat high protein meals all the time if you train a lot.

Good summation of what I was trying to say in much better way of saying it.

Relevant study for those wondering about some of this as well: Damas et al. 2015

 

[HIT4ME]

Impressive knowledge in this thread, from all of the responses. Not sure I add anything, and I'm not posting studies here....but some thoughts I had below.

To the OP - I have a knee-jerk reaction to the "we can only absorb x amounts of protein" - because of the word "absorb". As stated above, maybe you maximize protein synthesis at a certain point and above that point has reduced or no benefit, but this doesn't mean you don't absorb it of course. If it did, that would mean I could eat 400 grams of protein every meal and above 30-40 grams wouldn't be absorbed and so 360 grams of protein or 1440 calories would be totally unabsorbed and wasted. This would be a boon for appetite reduction on a diet, and obviously it doesn't work this way. Unfortunately.

But to the points above, there is a max and a min. To me, this suggests more of a minimum amount of protein you want to hit each meal than a max. Eating 20 meals with 5 grams of protein per day may never trigger sufficient MPS, while eating 3 meals with 30+ grams/day will - even though you are eating the same 100 gram total.

I've also seen some research suggesting that letting amino acid pools deplete will increase the MPS response - which further suggests eating larger amounts of protein over fewer meals may increase MPS. But, MPS isn't the end-all-be-all either. As is also pointed out above, protein breakdown is also a factor and reducing the breakdown of tissue by ensuring adequate amino acid supply through food is important as well - which is why protein becomes super critical during intense dieting.

 

[DieselNY]

Protein absorption:

Protein feeding pattern does not affect protein retention in young women - PubMed

This study was undertaken to determine whether a pulse protein feeding pattern was more efficient than a spread pattern to improve protein anabolism in young women as was already shown in elderly women. After a 15-d adaptive period [1.2 g protein/(kg fat-free mass. d)], 16 young women (age 26...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

- study conducted by scientists the National Human Nutrition Research Center (France) had 16 young women eat 79% of the day’s protein (about 54 grams) in one meal or four meals over the course of 14 days.

Researchers found no difference between the groups in terms of protein metabolism.

Furthermore, if we look at the amount of protein in the high-protein meals relative to the average body weight of the participants, it comes out to about 1.17 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight.

Apply that to a "normal sedentary" man weighing 80 kilograms (176 pounds), and you get about 94 grams of protein in each meal.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

I eat large amounts of protein in a small window of time and have noticed no negatives compared to spread out. Yeah, studies may say something else, but studies are flawed and don't take other factors into account. Bodybuilders will be much different than everyday people. Also, what types of protein are we talking? I could eat 40 grams of protein of white fish and I'll still feel empty. Chicken? I'd be extremely satiated, but not bloated. protein powders are the easiest to consume a large amount in a small portion of time, but I know most powders would cause me severe GI issues and bloating.

I''ve noticed carbohydrates actually cause me more issues with water retention, bloat, softer looking, etc, if I don't spread them out. Its crazy . Spread my carb consumption and it's a different animal where I feel like my metabolism is increased and I get more energy, fullness, pumps and I''ll be depleted If I don't eat again soon after my last meal.

Also, individuality. We're all created different. Find what works. One guy may be able to eat and utilize 250 gram of protein in one meal whereas another dude can't handle a little over 30.

 

[DieselNY]

I eat 1 to 2 meals a day. 100gms++ protein per meal for many years now. Cant say I see any negatives.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

I eat 1 to 2 meals a day. 100gms++ protein per meal for many years now. Cant say I see any negatives.

I think the body is a lot smarter than what’s shown in studies lol

 

[fireworkz788]

The study linked above is a good overview. It will be more comprehensive than my (probably too long) post and have references for further reading if you wish.

It depends on "why" when you ask this question and it is probably why people do end up confused or people push weird "you can only absorb this much protiein!#!!" type statements.

It seems there is a "cap" for total daily intake that going above does not seem to improve muscular hypertrophy gains, as well as a minimum over the course of a day one must try to hit for benefits as well (these are debatable but settle near the easy to remember 1g/lb most use).

From that we also seem to see that timing doesn't have a huge benefit once this is met, so it appears that spreading that evenly throughout the day (which should hopefully cover the pre and post windows) would be prudent. Therefore just take your total intake and divide it evenly by the meals you have per day.

That doesn't really answer your question (I didn't forget!) though. We see in some studies that show a certain amount of protein "maxes" out MPS, which tends to be where you get these limits of "only" so much per meal. This is problematic for a few reasons.

Getting stuck on the MPS response of protein is understandable (gains!), but tends to miss some of the other possible (which maybe aren't fully teased out in research yet) of higher protein intake past this theoretical limit. Protein provides a high Thermic Effect (TFE) so eating more may be beneficial in regards to burning more calories for a given intake as well. This relates to and also leads to the idea that Protein also is more satiating. Higher intakes may help manage total caloric intake better even if it isn't giving a direct benefit to muscle gains by its increase. If you eat more than is theoretically beneficial for MPS I wouldn't take that to mean it is "wasted".

We do tend to see that protein is more important in periods of weight loss (deficit) with the demands increasing. This should point out that max consumption is probably not a static number either. Changing demands in training, total intake of other macronutrients, athlete training age (and actual age), weight (muscle mass), etc. an all have effect on this number. This just goes towards an idea you can't pin point one single limit to max intake number.

Sorry I got writing and just kind of kept going. I think this is an interesting topic (maximizing intake), but tends to be looked at too narrowly. So TLDR:

1) I wouldn't worry about a cap, even if you ate more than what is theoretically beneficial for hypertrophy there may be other benefits and it isn't "wasted" or just automatically not absorbed.
2) If worried just aim for generally recommended upon total intakes and divide it by number of meals you eat per day. This should preferably be evenly spread and not too many or too little.

Great reply! Thank you, I try to consume as much as possible. But I tend to eat massive amounts in 2 massive meals. I will definitely try and space it out better!

 

[_Endure_]

I think the body is a lot smarter than what’s shown in studies lol

The body has an amazing ability to adapt physiologically and metabolically. I also don't really buy into the X amount at one sitting. There is no one size fits all in for anything nutrition.