M5AA and non aromatizing compounds

[NO MERCY]

I have been doing a lot of research on DHT and it seems there are 4 major benefits of DHT.

1) "Has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains."

2) "The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains."

3) "increase a distinct hardness and muscle density. Probably due to its reduction in circulating estrogen, perhaps due to the downregulating of the estrogen receptor in muscle tissue, it decreases the total water build-up of the body giving its user a much leaner look, and a visual effect of possessing "harder" muscles with more cuts and striations."

4) Can counteract the side effect of loss of libido caused by other compounds

(all quotes from Big Cat)


I ran a search and did not come with much. In light of the information above it seems that we would not be getting the full benefit of m5aa if we stacked it with a non aromatizing compound like 1test. Does anyone have any experience with this stack or a similar stack? Any opinions or feedback would be appreciated. Thanks fellas.

 

[Lifeguard]

dont forget that m1t is also 5-alpha reduced ( 5a-androst-1-ene 3b-one 17b-ol) so combining two non aromtiziable compounds can have both its benefits ans drawbacks:

1. dont really have to worry about estrogen until after the cycle (possible estrogen rebound)

2. nice, dry gains

but:

1. with increased androgenicity comes the increased chance of premature hairloss, acne, and all the other puberty-like effects...

**Disclaimer statement**

It's your body, you do what you want with it...just research the stuff first

 

[candle25]

I have been thinking of brewing a cycle to run with my dbol/Test e. I am bulking so do you think it would be a good idea?

 

[skumster225]

I don't have much to offer on this topic but I am very interested in the product.. I wish I jumped on the 5AA Cyp that DS had.. Damnit!

 

[NO MERCY]

Candle m5aa would be a nice edition to your stack but if I were you id go with the cyp. This will be easier on your liver since you are running dbol.

 

[NO MERCY]

Thank you for the feedback lifeguard.

Again just looking at the benefits above it seems m5aa would be better suited when used with aromatizing compounds

In regards to number 2. Does anyone know if DHT can enhance the potency of compounds OTHER than test?

Anyone have any studies showing that DHT may assist in fat burning?

All assistance and feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

 

[Dwight Schrute]

2) "The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains."

This isn't true.

(1) Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1974 Oct;77(2):380-6

The effect of mesterolone administration to normal men on the pituitary-testicular function.

Aakvaag A, Stromme SB.


"The reduction in total plasma testosterone and the unchanged free testosterone is probably due to reduced testosterone binding to SHBG."

So even though mesterolone competes with test for SHBG binding, the diplaced test is cleared from the system faster, resulting in no net change of free test, since as the authors point out:

"the MCR [metabolic clearance rate] is inversely related to the degree of protein binding."


Winstrol does the same thing. When 10mg/day was administered to normal men for 14 days, total testosterone, shbg and free test were all essentially cut in half. (1) Total test went from 22 to 10 nmol/L; SHBG from 21 to 10 nmol/L; and free test from 398 to 231 pmol/L. So again, even though total test and SHBG are dropping, so is free test.

That is kind of the point of having bound and loosely bound test. Up to a point anyway. An excess of SHBG can be bad. Free test is just metabolized too quickly, with the rate of metabolization increasing in proportion to the concentration of free test.

SHBG is interesting in itself. It appears to be much more than just a passive transporter for sex steroids in the blood. It has been shown for instance to both block the proliferative action of estrogen in mammary tissue in vitro, and prevent the normal upregulation of the progesterone receptor caused by estradiol (2). There evidently just hasn't been enough research done to know if there is any clinical significance to these actions


(1) Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1984 Jul;21(1):49-55

Alteration of hormone levels in normal males given the anabolic steroid stanozolol.

Small M, Beastall GH, Semple CG, Cowan RA, Forbes CD.

(2) Mol Cell Endocrinol 2001 Feb 14;172(1-2):31-6

The control of progesterone receptor expression in MCF-7 breast cancer cells: effects of estradiol and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG).

Fazzari A, Catalano MG, Comba A, Becchis M, Raineri M, Frairia R, Fortunati N.


Thank Nandi for that.

 

[Chemo]

Even though the DHT has a higher affinity it does not mean the free testosterone will exert anabolic action. Once it is free the clearance time will be decreased. This is the same concept as with any other compound. Imagine if you could take dbol and actually have your test level rise! We know this is not the case so I do not hold much faith in BC's assessment.

Chemo

 

[Chemo]

This isn't true.

(1) Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1974 Oct;77(2):380-6

The effect of mesterolone administration to normal men on the pituitary-testicular function.

Aakvaag A, Stromme SB.


"The reduction in total plasma testosterone and the unchanged free testosterone is probably due to reduced testosterone binding to SHBG."

So even though mesterolone competes with test for SHBG binding, the diplaced test is cleared from the system faster, resulting in no net change of free test, since as the authors point out:

Nice...in the time it took me to logic an answer you go and pull an article. Once again, proof that dosing any anabolic exept test will decrease your test level!

Chemo

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I guess I got the PM a little earlier

 

[NO MERCY]

Thank you Gentlemen

 

[NO MERCY]

Bobo and Chemo overall what is your opinion on the m5aa with 1test. I know adding the 4ad would allow you to get more out of the m5aa but while cutting I prefer to leave it out. Others please chime in with feedback and opinions also. Thank you

 

[propho]

I'm still baffled if m5aa can be used while PCT? someone else was talking about that in another thread.. since m5aa converts to DHT it shouldn't have an effect on test right? so technically it wouldn't require PCT?? Sorry if i'm totally wrong..

 

[NO MERCY]

Bobo and Chemo overall what is your opinion on the m5aa with 1test. I know adding the 4ad would allow you to get more out of the m5aa but while cutting I prefer to leave it out. Others please chime in with feedback and opinions also. Thank you

Any feedback guys?

 

[NO MERCY]

I know there are a lot of knowledgable guys on this board who have some feedback or at least an opinion on this. Thanks

 

[Manu20]

I would like to know what yall thin about what propho said cause I read the log in which someone used m5aa during pct.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I'm still baffled if m5aa can be used while PCT? someone else was talking about that in another thread.. since m5aa converts to DHT it shouldn't have an effect on test right? so technically it wouldn't require PCT?? Sorry if i'm totally wrong..

Its no prob, but your totally wrong. It suppresses. Any exogenous hormone suppresses. Exampe, if I even took estrogen as a male, my testosterone would be suppressed. Any exogenous hormone will negatively impact the HTPA.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Bobo and Chemo overall what is your opinion on the m5aa with 1test. I know adding the 4ad would allow you to get more out of the m5aa but while cutting I prefer to leave it out. Others please chime in with feedback and opinions also. Thank you

You might not want to get out of bed from the lethargy. It will work but IMO the effects won't be that great. A little estrogen is good for fat loss so add your 4AD. Increased testosterone has to many benefits.

 

[NO MERCY]

Thanks Bobo

 

[TheTom]

I don't think that is entirely right. I've read in a few places that supplemental DHEA doesn't suppress testosterone.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Its has been shown to increase testosterone in some because its a bascially a prohormone to androstenedione (but even that is debated). It stlll suppreses the HTPA. This is why some older men use it because it can restore test levels to normal without having such a drastic effect on HTPA such as HRT would. But it still suppresses you HTPA. For our purposes (if your not 50+) its bascially useless for boosting testosterone.


"The downside is that, unlike previously believed, DHEA exerts no major anabolic effects. And it is still an exogenous hormone, which means it does suppress natural testosterone. "