Lab Results Are In ... Confused with Results

LaserGoPewPew

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So I am a bit confused. I had bloodwork done last week & I did not expect this - my test and estro are listed as high after 8 week.. I am assuming the values aren't skewed since this follow up visit was performed by a different doctor (uro drew this blood and ran the labs - LabCorp ran my first pre TRT set of values).

I am shocked to see my Estradiol is so high. Also - Labcorp ran "sensitve E2" and this paperwork only shows "estradiol" and doesnt list if it is sensitive .

The ironic thing is the last two or three days have been the best in recent memory. I have felt overall just like i am better version of myself. I have felt happier and my libido - while its not a raging out of control thing - has made a comback a few days ago after being kind of just blah for last few years

There are more values than what I have posted, but these are the ones that I felt were important or where listed as "abnormal"

Any feedback is appreciated.



Lipid Panel

Category - Value - Normal Range

Non HDL Chol ... 98mg/dL ... <130
LDL Cholesterol ... 90mg/dL ... <130
HDL Cholesterol ... 52mg/dL ... >39
Triglyclerides ... 38mg/dL ... <150



CBC Panel

Hemoglobin (hgb) ... 15.2 gm/dL ... 14-18
Red Blood Cell Count (RBC) ... 4.77 M/mm3 ... 4.20 - 5.70
Hematocrit (HCT) ... 45.3% ... 42.2-53.8
Esinophils ... 0.7 % ... 1.0-8.0%
Basophils ... 1.6% ... 0.0-1.5%
Bilirubin, Tot ... 1.7 mg/dL ... <0.2 - 1.2 mg/dL
eGFR (Black) ... >60 ... >60
eGFR (White) ... 53 ... >60
(im white)
Creatine ... 1.5 mg/dL ... 0.7-1.3



Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP)

Albunim ... 4.3 g/dL ... 3.5-5.3
AST (SGOT) ... 43 IU/L ... <5-46
ALT (SGPT) ... 27 IU/L ... <5-55
BUN ... 11mg/dL ... 6-20
Glucose ... 78mg/dL ... 65-99
Estradiol ... 66 pg/mL ... 11-43
Free T3 ... 3.30 pg/mL ... 2.30-4.40
Thyroxin Free (T4) ... 1.35 ng/dL ... 0.86 - 1.76
LH ... <0.3 mIU/mL ... no range given
Total Test ... >1500 ng/dL ... 264-916
Progesterone ... 0.14 ng/dL ... <0.15
Free Test ... Cannot Calc ... 33-227
Test Bioavailability ... Cannot Calc ... 131-682
SHBG ... 46.4 nmol/L ... 16.5 - 55.9
Free Test ... Cannot Calc % ... 1.60-2.90
THS ...1.36 mIU/L ... 0.27-4.20
 

LaserGoPewPew

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Renew1 from reading over the paperwork i am assuming that since the total test was off the scale they cant calculate the percentages? Just a guess ... i cant find a value anywhere. In the itemized long form it reads "SEE COMMENT" for a few test parameters
 
Renew1

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Renew1 from reading over the paperwork i am assuming that since the total test was off the scale they cant calculate the percentages? Just a guess ... i cant find a value anywhere. In the itemized long form it reads "SEE COMMENT" for a few test parameters
Well, that sucks.

My opinions:

I'm not at all surprised that your Test and Estrogen are high. And I'm not surprised that you have been feeling good lately.
Estrogen can catch up with you, and make you feel crappy..... But there have been times when my Test and Estrogen were both high, and I felt great.

Do you have any idea yet, what adjustments your Dr is going to make?
 

LaserGoPewPew

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Well, that sucks.



Do you have any idea yet, what adjustments your Dr is going to make?

That was my next question to the board ...

I feel good. Libido is getting better but not "great" but MUCH improved. I have felt like over the last 5,6, 8?? years (maybe more) that i was "existing" and not thriving a few areas of my life ... my drive, recovery, libido, focus - all of those have slipped and one of the things i have felt has changed over the last week is that i am more decisive. I dont get mired down in analysis paralysis. Its a good feeling - hope the doc doesnt make any drastic chnages
 
Renew1

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That was my next question to the board ...

I feel good. Libido is getting better but not "great" but MUCH improved. I have felt like over the last 5,6, 8?? years (maybe more) that i was "existing" and not thriving a few areas of my life ... my drive, recovery, libido, focus - all of those have slipped and one of the things i have felt has changed over the last week is that i am more decisive. I dont get mired down in analysis paralysis. Its a good feeling - hope the doc doesnt make any drastic chnages
Yeah, if I were in your situation, I would hope that he would start with small changes. ...but your Test is pretty high, so who knows what he'll do.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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Yeah, if I were in your situation, I would hope that he would start with small changes. ...but your Test is pretty high, so who knows what he'll do.
i have been on 120 cyp a week for two months now... about a week ago (after labs) i upped the dose - after labs.

his recomendation initally was 150 a week. shortly after i began using 150 i began feeling more positive. he thought 120 a week wouldnt do it for me when he intially Rx'd. he also wanted me on 1000 HCG a week with the 150 when we first met. i dont know if that has a direct correlation but figured its worth mentioning.

i would assume all the values (test/est) are even higher now after upping it last week?

EDIT -
Renew1
 
Renew1

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i have been on 120 cyp a week... about a week ago (after labs) i upped it to his recomendation of 150 a week and shortly after i began feeling more positive. he thought 120 a week wouldnt do it for me. he also wanted me on 1000 HCG a week with the 150. i dont know if that has a direct correlation but figured its worth mentioning. i would assume all the values (test/est) are even higher now?
I'm sorry .... Do you mean he upped the Test, and added HCG after these bloods were drawn?
 
Old Witch

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There’s a school of thought that says E2 in the 60-80 range is cardioprotective, and that men on trt ought to have higher estrogen , around 60-80, which is normally considered above range.
 
Old Witch

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I'm sorry .... Do you mean he upped the Test, and added HCG after these bloods were drawn?
If so, that’s the coolest dumbest doctor ever.

“Oh jeez... high E2... test can’t be measured... hmmm. Yep, better give him more testosterone.”
 

LaserGoPewPew

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Thanks for the info

What do you think will happen when i show these new values to the TRT doc?

I am actually relieved that the HTC went down ... call me crazy but when i jumped up i thought i could feel pumping it in my chest when i laid down. I have been much more mindlful about hydration lately as well.
 
Renew1

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If so, that’s the coolest dumbest doctor ever.

“Oh jeez... high E2... test can’t be measured... hmmm. Yep, better give him more testosterone.”
LOL.

Yeah, I know. I just couldn't quite decypher his comment.

:)
 

LaserGoPewPew

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LOL.

Yeah, I know. I just couldn't quite decypher his comment.

:)
i edited the original above. - poor wording on my part

any feedback on the other values? SHBG? etc
 
Renew1

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i edited the original above. - poor wording on my part

any feedback on the other values? SHBG? etc
LOL. Old Witch, ..... that's what I thought I was reading.

So yeah..... Your numbers will be higher for sure.
 
Old Witch

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Renew1 from reading over the paperwork i am assuming that since the total test was off the scale they cant calculate the percentages? Just a guess ... i cant find a value anywhere. In the itemized long form it reads "SEE COMMENT" for a few test parameters
So, usually, the upper end limit is 15000 TT on tests. Unless these guys are using a Fisher Price play set.
 
Renew1

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So, usually, the upper end limit is 15000 TT on tests. Unless these guys are using a Fisher Price play set.
LOL. Yep.
I've seen a low cap like that a few times, though.
I always just shake my head. Really???
 

LaserGoPewPew

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15,000

Your labs probably capped out at 1500. Or possibly even 1000. So any on cycle blood work would be untestable.
got it ...

what do you think about Thyroid levels ?
what about liver?
Kidney?


Bilirubin, Tot ... 1.7 mg/dL ... <0.2 - 1.2 mg/dL
eGFR (Black) ... >60 ... >60
eGFR (White) ... 53 ... >60
(im white)
Creatine ... 1.5 mg/dL ... 0.7-1.3
AST (SGOT) ... 43 IU/L ... <5-46
ALT (SGPT) ... 27 IU/L ... <5-55
BUN ... 11mg/dL ... 6-20
 

MedRat

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Id be concerned with that bilirubin starting to climb. Look at your estimated glomelur filtrate rate (eGFR). If this is tested twice and comes back again in the 50s, you have stage 3a chronic kidney disease. You need to see if you are getting too much potassium, phosphorus, and protien in your diet. You need to change to a diet with lean meat such as grilled turkey and a lot of fruits and vegetables. Heavier on the vegetables than the fruits. Try to stop or slow down alcohol if you drink it. Increase water consumption throughout the day. Cut out any NSAIDs such as Ibuprofen. Reduce or eliminate caffiene.

The kidneys are the #1 organ in the body for regeneration. If you can remove what is stressing them, they may bounce back. Your eGFR at that level is a warning sign.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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Id be concerned with that bilirubin starting to climb. Look at your estimated glomelur filtrate rate (eGFR). If this is tested twice and comes back again in the 50s, you have stage 3a chronic kidney disease. You need to see if you are getting too much potassium, phosphorus, and protien in your diet. You need to change to a diet with lean meat such as grilled turkey and a lot of fruits and vegetables. Heavier on the vegetables than the fruits. Try to stop or slow down alcohol if you drink it. Increase water consumption throughout the day. Cut out any NSAIDs such as Ibuprofen. Reduce or eliminate caffiene.

The kidneys are the #1 organ in the body for regeneration. If you can remove what is stressing them, they may bounce back. Your eGFR at that level is a warning sign.
thank you

thants the thing - i eat clean. i did whole 30 in january (no alcohol, no dairy etc ) but lots of clean chicken w salads, avacaods, etc and my eGFR came back at 57 i think. this go round it comes back off and i was making sure i was drinking A LOT of water and no alcohol. i dont take pain killrs or NSAIDs if i dont have to and havent taken one in a long long time ....

The odd thing is the guy that ran this bloodwork is a Uro and he told me he uses the 66 value (black) and says im fine ... i am a white guy btw so i dont know why he would use the 66 number

i do drink a lot of caffine tho
 
Old Witch

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thank you

thants the thing - i eat clean. i did whole 30 in january (no alcohol, no dairy etc ) but lots of clean chicken w salads, avacaods, etc and my eGFR came back at 57 i think. this go round it comes back off and i was making sure i was drinking A LOT of water and no alcohol. i dont take pain killrs or NSAIDs if i dont have to and havent taken one in a long long time ....

The odd thing is the guy that ran this bloodwork is a Uro and he told me he uses the 66 value (black) and says im fine ... i am a white guy btw so i dont know why he would use the 66 number

i do drink a lot of caffine tho
You might be drinking too much water as well.

Obviously, having a high protein diet can’t change, unless you’re trying not to have muscles.

He’s right though if bilirubin is up and eGFR is under 60 that’s not very good.
 

MedRat

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so what should i do now?

if i recall correctly my billi wasnt high last time
You need an entire dietary change. When you do, try to add in almonds, pistachios and Brazil nuts. No more than one ounce of dairy per day. Look into the Mediterranean diet. Some values change pretty slowly.

Look at websites like the American Kidney Association, Davita Dialysis,and the Cleveland Clinic.

Looking good on the outside means nothing if we are looking bad on the inside.
 

kisaj

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My understanding is that GFR is simply a guess based on the creatinine level and that lean muscle mass heavily influences this, even more than being overweight. My creatinine has always been elevated and GFR in range, but not by a lot. I carry a lof of muscle mass and low fat and every doctor I have ever been to has not expressed any concern about it and points to muscle mass.

There are studies on this, but is there anything else in his labs that would point to this not being the case. Assuming PewPew is muscular?
 
Hyde

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Great lipids, fasting glucose, & hematocrit at least.

Read up on Astragalus. Order bottles of it today and I’d be hopping on at least 6g split over 2 doses daily (that’s 12 caps of NOW btw). I am using 3g divided purely as a precaution for this lifestyle.

Estrogen at 66 with t levels over 1500 is probably ideal. If it was 6-800, I am usually 30s. As you’re double that at least, I would want estrogen to be correspondingly higher to feel right.

You definitely don’t need HCG, and you’re blasting right now your body is so efficient with the test. That’s why you feel so on lol- you are. I would be dropping my TRT dose if over 1,500. That’s not TRT.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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My understanding is that GFR is simply a guess based on the creatinine level and that lean muscle mass heavily influences this, even more than being overweight. My creatinine has always been elevated and GFR in range, but not by a lot. I carry a lof of muscle mass and low fat and every doctor I have ever been to has not expressed any concern about it and points to muscle mass.

There are studies on this, but is there anything else in his labs that would point to this not being the case. Assuming PewPew is muscular?
i have always been a "hard gainer" and always lean ... still am and i am now up to 193# and i am 6' even. i jumped up into the upper 190s a couple weeks ago (my heaviest ever) and now i think im holding fast and leaning out a bit ... all good things. So i am thankful for these metrics ... i just cant figure out the kidney thing and was going to ask if being lean or super musclular like a bobdy builder "throws off" standard testing
 

LaserGoPewPew

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Great lipids, fasting glucose, & hematocrit at least.

Read up on Astragalus. Order bottles of it today and I’d be hopping on at least 6g split over 2 doses daily (that’s 12 caps of NOW btw). I am using 3g divided purely as a precaution for this lifestyle.

Estrogen at 66 with t levels over 1500 is probably ideal. If it was 6-800, I am usually 30s. As you’re double that at least, I would want estrogen to be correspondingly higher to feel right.

You definitely don’t need HCG, and you’re blasting right now your body is so efficient with the test. That’s why you feel so on lol- you are. I would be dropping my TRT dose if over 1,500. That’s not TRT.
1. whya re you taking the astragulus?
2. E at 66 makes sense - thanks
3. what should i drop to? i have been at 120 for a while, was planning to shoot up tot 150 after that last round of labs to just test it / trial and error
 

MedRat

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1. whya re you taking the astragulus?
2. E at 66 makes sense - thanks
3. what should i drop to? i have been at 120 for a while, was planning to shoot up tot 150 after that last round of labs to just test it / trial and error
You can have a urinalysis, check creatinine clearance in urine, imaging tests such as a CT scan. I discussed actions Id personally consider if my labs came back with an eGFR in the 50s.

Astragalus has many uses. I dont know all of them. I feel the top two are increasing testosterone and reducing cortisol.
 

kisaj

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Well there is. "Serum creatinine is influenced by gender, age, and the amount of muscle mass; however, formulas that predict GFR take into account gender, age and weight but not muscle mass (7–16)." Also, working out close to a lab will alter this as well. I was told to refrain for at least 72 hours.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2390952/

I'd follow up as MedRat mentioned as I have never been in the 50s and see about retesting.
 
Hyde

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1. whya re you taking the astragulus?
2. E at 66 makes sense - thanks
3. what should i drop to? i have been at 120 for a while, was planning to shoot up tot 150 after that last round of labs to just test it / trial and error
Because longterm steroid use damages the kidneys over time via multiple pathways. Almost no bodybuilders die from liver failure - they die from cardiac events brought on by atherosclerosis, & renal failure.

Astragalus can support and in some instances even heal the kidneys. I encourage you strongly to research it. Also consider adding curcumin if not on it already - everyone should probably be taking that. If your blood pressure is elevated, get it under control now.

TRT is an individual thing (as evidenced by 120/wk giving you over 1500 total T levels. I would talk with your doc about trying 80-100mg and see where that puts your bloods and how you feel.

You could probably add ~10g Boron daily and get more free t even while getting total t and the amount you take weekly lower. Win/win.
 
Hyde

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Well there is. "Serum creatinine is influenced by gender, age, and the amount of muscle mass; however, formulas that predict GFR take into account gender, age and weight but not muscle mass (7–16)." Also, working out close to a lab will alter this as well. I was told to refrain for at least 72 hours.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2390952/

I'd follow up as MedRat mentioned as I have never been in the 50s and see about retesting.
Good point about proximity to workouts. I always take 2 full days off training or anything that impacts recovery before getting bloods so the values aren’t skewed.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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Because longterm steroid use damages the kidneys over time via multiple pathways. Almost no bodybuilders die from liver failure - they die from cardiac events brought on by atherosclerosis, & renal failure.

Astragalus can support and in some instances even heal the kidneys. I encourage you strongly to research it. Also consider adding curcumin if not on it already - everyone should probably be taking that. If your blood pressure is elevated, get it under control now.

TRT is an individual thing (as evidenced by 120/wk giving you over 1500 total T levels. I would talk with your doc about trying 80-100mg and see where that puts your bloods and how you feel.

You could probably add ~10g Boron daily and get more free t even while getting total t and the amount you take weekly lower. Win/win.
1. ok good to know - and yeah i always worry about kidney health more than liver health due to its regenerative nature, so ill check those compounds out. thanks

2. i am going to FU with him next week and send him the labs

3. i have read a good bit on boron - you beleive its effective? i am always skeptical about the "new supp" that come out like the coconut oil craze. also what brand do you trust - again i tend be skeptical about companies putting togetter BS or fake supplemts

appreciate the insight
 

kisaj

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Boron is not a "new supplement", it dates back a long time. Guys I used to train with in the early 90s were all taking it for free test benefits. Back then labs weren't popular or even done at all, but it was believed to help. There are studies supporting this at 10mg daily.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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Boron is not a "new supplement", it dates back a long time. Guys I used to train with in the early 90s were all taking it for free test benefits. Back then labs weren't popular or even done at all, but it was believed to help. There are studies supporting this at 10mg daily.
i wasnt knocking it ... will take 10 mg

is there a preferred brand?
 
Hyde

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i wasnt knocking it ... will take 10 mg

is there a preferred brand?
Dante Trudel says he feels it’s something everyone should look at, but where he usually sees the biggest benefit in people’s bloodwork is guys on TRT (you). He recommended NOW and I have had no complaints using that brand (NOW has always been a trusted brand for me whatever I’ve used from them).
 

kisaj

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i wasnt knocking it ... will take 10 mg

is there a preferred brand?
Sure, I didn't think you were. I just was reassuring that it isn't anything new because you mentioned you were skeptical.

I have not taken it in awhile for no reason other than I was moving to simplify my stacks awhile back and left it out, but now that we are on topic I remember the libido boost being significant. I was taking Pure, Swanson Ultra, and NOW. They were all similar, but I seem to recall Swanson helping with my knee pain. I may add it back in.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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Sure, I didn't think you were. I just was reassuring that it isn't anything new because you mentioned you were skeptical.

I have not taken it in awhile for no reason other than I was moving to simplify my stacks awhile back and left it out, but now that we are on topic I remember the libido boost being significant. I was taking Pure, Swanson Ultra, and NOW. They were all similar, but I seem to recall Swanson helping with my knee pain. I may add it back in.
interesting. ill check it out. thx
 

2kvette

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There’s a school of thought that says E2 in the 60-80 range is cardioprotective, and that men on trt ought to have higher estrogen , around 60-80, which is normally considered above range.
This is true. My docs philosophy is you don't need an AI unless you get symptoms like itchiness on your tits, moodiness, sexual/erection issues. If you don't have those, then it doesn't matter if you have a high E2 because its just a number without an impact. And it will just help your LDL/HDL ratio.
 
Old Witch

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This is true. My docs philosophy is you don't need an AI unless you get symptoms like itchiness on your tits, moodiness, sexual/erection issues. If you don't have those, then it doesn't matter if you have a high E2 because its just a number without an impact. And it will just help your LDL/HDL ratio.
Yep. My philosophy as well. If nothings broken, nothing needs fixing. If your nips itch really bad, or puff up a little, or maybe blood pressure is suddenly going way too high... then an AI makes a lot more sense. Because there’s a problem to fix.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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Yep. My philosophy as well. If nothings broken, nothing needs fixing. If your nips itch really bad, or puff up a little, or maybe blood pressure is suddenly going way too high... then an AI makes a lot more sense. Because there’s a problem to fix.
BP has been slightly elevated but nothing crazy - and i am not sure if that is just "nerves" at the doc or if the test has truly elevated it consistently (145/80 i think). My HTC was down a good bit which was nice.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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So I am a bit confused. I had bloodwork done last week & I did not expect this - my test and estro are listed as high after 8 week.. I am assuming the values aren't skewed since this follow up visit was performed by a different doctor (uro drew this blood and ran the labs - LabCorp ran my first pre TRT set of values).

I am shocked to see my Estradiol is so high. Also - Labcorp ran "sensitve E2" and this paperwork only shows "estradiol" and doesnt list if it is sensitive .

The ironic thing is the last two or three days have been the best in recent memory. I have felt overall just like i am better version of myself. I have felt happier and my libido - while its not a raging out of control thing - has made a comback a few days ago after being kind of just blah for last few years

There are more values than what I have posted, but these are the ones that I felt were important or where listed as "abnormal"

Any feedback is appreciated.



Lipid Panel

Category - Value - Normal Range

Non HDL Chol ... 98mg/dL ... <130
LDL Cholesterol ... 90mg/dL ... <130
HDL Cholesterol ... 52mg/dL ... >39
Triglyclerides ... 38mg/dL ... <150



CBC Panel

Hemoglobin (hgb) ... 15.2 gm/dL ... 14-18
Red Blood Cell Count (RBC) ... 4.77 M/mm3 ... 4.20 - 5.70
Hematocrit (HCT) ... 45.3% ... 42.2-53.8
Esinophils ... 0.7 % ... 1.0-8.0%
Basophils ... 1.6% ... 0.0-1.5%
Bilirubin, Tot ... 1.7 mg/dL ... <0.2 - 1.2 mg/dL
eGFR (Black) ... >60 ... >60
eGFR (White) ... 53 ... >60
(im white)
Creatine ... 1.5 mg/dL ... 0.7-1.3



Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP)

Albunim ... 4.3 g/dL ... 3.5-5.3
AST (SGOT) ... 43 IU/L ... <5-46
ALT (SGPT) ... 27 IU/L ... <5-55
BUN ... 11mg/dL ... 6-20
Glucose ... 78mg/dL ... 65-99
Estradiol ... 66 pg/mL ... 11-43
Free T3 ... 3.30 pg/mL ... 2.30-4.40
Thyroxin Free (T4) ... 1.35 ng/dL ... 0.86 - 1.76
LH ... <0.3 mIU/mL ... no range given
Total Test ... >1500 ng/dL ... 264-916
Progesterone ... 0.14 ng/dL ... <0.15
Free Test ... Cannot Calc ... 33-227
Test Bioavailability ... Cannot Calc ... 131-682
SHBG ... 46.4 nmol/L ... 16.5 - 55.9
Free Test ... Cannot Calc % ... 1.60-2.90
THS ...1.36 mIU/L ... 0.27-4.20


I am curious what the board thinks about experimenting with a very low dose AI to see if that chnages anything ...

I have been told / read here and other sites that you sometimes have to experiment a little to find your "sweet spot"

I dont have itchy nips but i do have an elevated E, technically speaking.

If i cut it in half from 66 to 33 how would that make me feel (guesses welcome as i am new to this). I hear the 20-30 range is where most guys want their E
 
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If you lower estrogen with an AI you will probably take a hit to libido, fair warning. And you may adversely affect lipid profile marginally.

On the other hand, if trying to stay leaner & tighter, it would help. And IF nips are bothering you, then it’s a necessity in my opinion. Which you said they aren’t right now.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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If you lower estrogen with an AI you will probably take a hit to libido, fair warning. And you may adversely affect lipid profile marginally.

On the other hand, if trying to stay leaner & tighter, it would help. And IF nips are bothering you, then it’s a necessity in my opinion. Which you said they aren’t right now.
libido is v low as it is ... i was assuming the high possibly could cause this? But i wasnt sure. Nips are fine - no itchiness or lumps etc
 
Hyde

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libido is v low as it is ... i was assuming the high possibly could cause this? But i wasnt sure. Nips are fine - no itchiness or lumps etc
If it’s already bleh than I would get a bottle and consider experimenting with low doses. Or just save it in case you do get gyno symptoms for an emergency.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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If it’s already bleh than I would get a bottle and consider experimenting with low doses. Or just save it in case you do get gyno symptoms for an emergency.
get a botttle of what exactly? thx
 

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