Jimothy's Back (and worse than ever)

[jimbuick]

Pu55y!

You aren’t wrong, but I have a date tonight, so need to have enough energy for that

 

[MrKleen73]

If you aren't getting a little anxious before leg day or deadlift day then you probably aren't training that hard. Just working out with those movements.

 

[Dustin07]

but I have a date tonight, so need to have enough energy for that

I always found heavy deadlifts put me in the mood more than anything lol

 

[Dustin07]

If you aren't getting a little anxious before leg day or deadlift day then you probably aren't training that hard. Just working out with those movements.

as soon as leg day is over I'm already over anticipating and fearing the next pulling day. I literally spend all my days between sessions planning the next session

 

[jimbuick]

I always found heavy deadlifts put me in the mood more than anything lol

I’m cooked after leg day. No chance I can do anything but lay down after that.

 

[Dustin07]

I’m cooked after leg day. No chance I can do anything but lay down after that.

oh don't get me wrong, squats wreck me.
but some high rep deads and I'm ready to go. 225 for 21 reps will put hair on your chest.

 

[jimbuick]

oh don't get me wrong, squats wreck me.
but some high rep deads and I'm ready to go. 225 for 21 reps will put hair on your chest.

****, with my back the way it is, deadlift for reps would put me in a wheelchair before it put hair on my chest lol

 

[Dustin07]

****, with my back the way it is, deadlift for reps would put me in a wheelchair before it put hair on my chest lol

ha fair enough, I'm one of those retards in the opposite camp. if I don't deadlift I have pretty bad back issues. any time my back pain does creep in, RDLs always fix it like magic for me.

 

[MrKleen73]

oh don't get me wrong, squats wreck me.
but some high rep deads and I'm ready to go. 225 for 21 reps will put hair on your chest.

No, just no... eh, eh, yeah... not interested.... LMAO
I say that but I have done a widowmaker set with 365 before, so 1 rep shy of 21. I was a psycho back then. LMAO!

 

[Hyde]

No, just no... eh, eh, yeah... not interested.... LMAO
I say that but I have done a widowmaker set with 365 before, so 1 rep shy of 21. I was a psycho back then. LMAO!

One time, over a decade ago now, this younger kid kept trying to pull 315 and giving up on it. I would consider him a friend. Anyway, he was just continually giving up on himself mentally, totally negative in his self talk - he was the one holding himself back & didn’t want to accept any encouragement.

So finally I just walked up, no warmup, and told him you just do it like this - then I proceeded to pull it for 23 reps Poor kid just walked out of the gym.

I was hoping to reframe his view of the weight by showing him the plausibility of it, but he just took it as me being a dick & demotivating. That was a learning opportunity for me - not everyone responds well to challenge. Some people need to be lifted up gently, handled delicately with kid gloves, if you really want to get the most out of them.

 

[Dustin07]

I was hoping to reframe his view of the weight by showing him the plausibility of it, but he just took it as me being a dick & demotivating. That was a learning opportunity for me - not everyone responds well to challenge. Some people need to be lifted up gently, handled delicately with kid gloves, if you really want to get the most out of them.

tough balance! I'm more of the smack me in the back, kick me in the balls and call me a pussy until I make it happen type, but you're right

 

[jimbuick]

ha fair enough, I'm one of those retards in the opposite camp. if I don't deadlift I have pretty bad back issues. any time my back pain does creep in, RDLs always fix it like magic for me.

RDLs are a great exercise for my back too, tbh. But deadlifts from the floor are a hard pass unless I’m competing.

 

[MrKleen73]

One time, over a decade ago now, this younger kid kept trying to pull 315 and giving up on it. I would consider him a friend. Anyway, he was just continually giving up on himself mentally, totally negative in his self talk - he was the one holding himself back & didn’t want to accept any encouragement.

So finally I just walked up, no warmup, and told him you just do it like this - then I proceeded to pull it for 23 reps Poor kid just walked out of the gym.

I was hoping to reframe his view of the weight by showing him the plausibility of it, but he just took it as me being a dick & demotivating. That was a learning opportunity for me - not everyone responds well to challenge. Some people need to be lifted up gently, handled delicately with kid gloves, if you really want to get the most out of them.

Haha, yeah, that was a bit of a kick in the nuts, but a funny story. Not sure how I would take that one if I were him and probably already frustrated by missing an attempt. Maybe got mad, maybe got butt hurt, but probably not motivated by it.

tough balance! I'm more of the smack me in the back, kick me in the balls and call me a pussy until I make it happen type, but you're right

Oh not me, that only motivates me to hit back, and calling me a pussy doesn't do anything for me. If i don't really think I can do something, and then you say you don't think I can do it either, then it is settled and we agree. Done Deal.

Now if I don't think I can and you tell me come man you've fugging got this, I will kill myself trying to make it so! Different motivators there. I had a very manipulated and guilt ridden childhood, so just about anything that is meant to motivate through negative reinforcement or psychological manipulation just automatically gets ignored because I hate to be manipulated at all now. It's like an on/off switch for me.

 

[Dustin07]

RDLs are a great exercise for my back too, tbh. But deadlifts from the floor are a hard pass unless I’m competing.

when I tore a ligament in my back I couldn't pick something up off the ground without puking for a long time but I kept trying everything. then one day I was at the old xfit box and they programmed in 3 sets of RDLs. 20 reps at 95lbs. I thought this is f'ing stupid high rep deadlift bs. but I did it, with a solid glute squeeze and my back felt amazing. a lightbulb went on in my head and RDL's, followed by very very high rack pulls became my road to recovery. I couldn't pick up 135 from the ground, but I could RDL a fair amount and rack pull like 385 with no pain so I just made RDLs my religion and over time lowered the rack position until it was on the ground again.

it was like an 18 month journey I probably could have fixed in 6 months if I didn't go to a half dozen different PTs, musculoskeletal specialist, and other quacks who were convinced my burst disc and bone spur against my sciatica were the issue. at the end of the day for me (of course my personal issue), it ended up being more lifting that fixed me while everyone else told me to do less.

Haha, yeah, that was a bit of a kick in the nuts, but a funny story. Not sure how I would take that one if I were him and probably already frustrated by missing an attempt. Maybe got mad, maybe got butt hurt, but probably not motivated by it.

first time I pulled 465 a couple younger guys were on the platform next to us working up to 275 or 315. my buddy says loud enough for them to hear "Just throw 40 more on it, pull 465 for a PR or they're going to think you're a pussy" it was pretty funny but at the point the 4 of us were basically lifting together (parallel play?) and so I made the pull, lol. I mean my buddy and I have at least 50lbs of bodyweight on these kids but still, the challenge was set.

 

[MrKleen73]

when I tore a ligament in my back I couldn't pick something up off the ground without puking for a long time but I kept trying everything. then one day I was at the old xfit box and they programmed in 3 sets of RDLs. 20 reps at 95lbs. I thought this is f'ing stupid high rep deadlift bs. but I did it, with a solid glute squeeze and my back felt amazing. a lightbulb went on in my head and RDL's, followed by very very high rack pulls became my road to recovery. I couldn't pick up 135 from the ground, but I could RDL a fair amount and rack pull like 385 with no pain so I just made RDLs my religion and over time lowered the rack position until it was on the ground again.

it was like an 18 month journey I probably could have fixed in 6 months if I didn't go to a half dozen different PTs, musculoskeletal specialist, and other quacks who were convinced my burst disc and bone spur against my sciatica were the issue. at the end of the day for me (of course my personal issue), it ended up being more lifting that fixed me while everyone else told me to do less.


first time I pulled 465 a couple younger guys were on the platform next to us working up to 275 or 315. my buddy says loud enough for them to hear "Just throw 40 more on it, pull 465 for a PR or they're going to think you're a pussy" it was pretty funny but at the point the 4 of us were basically lifting together (parallel play?) and so I made the pull, lol. I mean my buddy and I have at least 50lbs of bodyweight on these kids but still, the challenge was set.

A) You could be right that it may have taken only 6 months, or you could be wrong and everything the PT's did up until that point prepared you for being able to take over your own PT with the RDLs. Remember correlation is not always causation.

B) Yeah that was more in fun, than an "I bet you can't do 465 pussy!" I probably would have done the exact same thing there if I felt like it was something I had a decent shot at. What is also funny is if someone challenges me like the above in quotes for something I know I could do, I have zero need or desire to prove it to them either because they tried to manipulate me into doing it.

 

[jimbuick]

Waiting on some updated training from Patrick, but got my updated diet in today. We’re way upping calories from where I’m currently sitting to reset BMR (I was on a pretty hard cut, since I prefer to slash calories and diet for a shorter amount of time) before we start cutting down to then rebound. Gonna have to go grocery shopping now

 

[Dustin07]

how big of a difference we talking? like... how low were you and how far up you going? is it a slow ramp up or an immediate shock to the system +500 calories a day type thing? when I did my reverse I added 100 calories a day every week and had a lot of success with the reverse approach. only added like 3 or 4lbs to the scale in 4 months but increased calories like 700-1k day from cutting low to a new maintenance/bulk level

 

[jimbuick]

how big of a difference we talking? like... how low were you and how far up you going? is it a slow ramp up or an immediate shock to the system +500 calories a day type thing? when I did my reverse I added 100 calories a day every week and had a lot of success with the reverse approach. only added like 3 or 4lbs to the scale in 4 months but increased calories like 700-1k day from cutting low to a new maintenance/bulk level

Most days I was hovering between 1500-1600kcal a day. He’s having me jump in at 2298kcal a day . He upped my protein 40g, fat ~15g, and carbs by close to 120g.

And he also requires certain supplements as part of the meal plan which I will have to acquire. (Nothing wild: greens, vitamin D, stuff like that). And the aforementioned 6L of water with salt that Kleen is working with.

 

[Dustin07]

Most days I was hovering between 1500-1600kcal a day. He’s having me jump in at 2298kcal a day

. He upped my protein 40g, fat ~15g, and carbs by close to 120g.

that is a big jump. I was floating as low as 1500 ish for a while but pretty stagnant and it took me from sept - Dec to get up to 2500-2700 cals. at 2500+ I was slowly adding weight. after about 14 months I'm floating around 16lbs above where I was sept of 2022.

 

[Hyde]

Jim how tf do you not already take some D3, it’s almost 2024 for Pete’s sake…

You old fart.

 

[jimbuick]

Jim how tf do you not already take some D3, it’s almost 2024 for Pete’s sake…

You old fart.

I don’t take any supps, bro. I do this the old-fashioned way. The 5 percent way. With Real Food

 

[Segansational]

Most days I was hovering between 1500-1600kcal a day. He’s having me jump in at 2298kcal a day . He upped my protein 40g, fat ~15g, and carbs by close to 120g.

And he also requires certain supplements as part of the meal plan which I will have to acquire. (Nothing wild: greens, vitamin D, stuff like that). And the aforementioned 6L of water with salt that Kleen is working with.

How much do you weigh? 1500 seems pretty low, although you mentioned being in a deficit.

 

[jimbuick]

How much do you weigh? 1500 seems pretty low, although you mentioned being in a deficit.

I was hovering around 195-200 before I started dieting a month or so ago. Now I’m between 182-186 fasted after my workout (though, he now has me eating what seems like a sizable pre workout meal, so that’ll be an adjustment, too).

 

[MrKleen73]

how big of a difference we talking? like... how low were you and how far up you going? is it a slow ramp up or an immediate shock to the system +500 calories a day type thing? when I did my reverse I added 100 calories a day every week and had a lot of success with the reverse approach. only added like 3 or 4lbs to the scale in 4 months but increased calories like 700-1k day from cutting low to a new maintenance/bulk level

that is a big jump. I was floating as low as 1500 ish for a while but pretty stagnant and it took me from sept - Dec to get up to 2500-2700 cals. at 2500+ I was slowly adding weight. after about 14 months I'm floating around 16lbs above where I was sept of 2022.

Yeah, he isn't trying to reverse diet us, he wants to rebound us which is a little different. Reverse dieting you diet yourself down then slowly start adding things back in and very gradually increase calories back in slowly trying to maintain as close to current composition as possible. With rebounding they tend to jump you back to what your current weights maintenance would be, give it a lil time, then start pushing up from there. Especially with what you saw for me when he put me right at 2650 a day that was my estimated maintenance and it was pretty much spot on. I am sure the current cals for Jim are what he assumes are his maintenance calories. So he will get him to reset around there, then start cutting him down lean enough to start rebounding him which is a little more aggressive than just a reverse diet but honestly it is all based on the same restrict, and then super-compensate principle.

I don’t take any supps, bro. I do this the old-fashioned way. The 5 percent way. With Real Food

But wait 5% is a supplement company.... PS Whey is real food, it's just in a powdered form. Semantics.

 

[jimbuick]

Yeah, he isn't trying to reverse diet us, he wants to rebound us which is a little different. Reverse dieting you diet yourself down then slowly start adding things back in and very gradually increase calories back in slowly trying to maintain as close to current composition as possible. With rebounding they tend to jump you back to what your current weights maintenance would be, give it a lil time, then start pushing up from there. Especially with what you saw for me when he put me right at 2650 a day that was my estimated maintenance and it was pretty much spot on. I am sure the current cals for Jim are what he assumes are his maintenance calories. So he will get him to reset around there, then start cutting him down lean enough to start rebounding him which is a little more aggressive than just a reverse diet but honestly it is all based on the same restrict, and then super-compensate principle.
But wait 5% is a supplement company.... PS Whey is real food, it's just in a powdered form. Semantics.

Oh, I wasn’t counting whey. I use the **** out of that cuz it’s easier than cooking

 

[jimbuick]

Didn’t track anything end of week, but hit both sessions. Was expecting to be on the new plan this week, but it’s looking like I’ll start that next Monday. Decent session today. Now I go back to my cave to draft some documents to send out (hopefully) tonight.

 

[Hyde]

I don’t take any supps, bro. I do this the old-fashioned way. The 5 percent way. With Real Food

I gotchu, fam

 

[jimbuick]

But yeah, gonna have to get on Amazon and do some shopping tonight or tomorrow. If I’m lucky, I can get my groceries too, cuz I don’t wanna walk to the grocery store and carry it back (it is literally less than one block )

 

[jimbuick]

As always, Upperback rows ended with shrugs.

 

[MrKleen73]

But yeah, gonna have to get on Amazon and do some shopping tonight or tomorrow. If I’m lucky, I can get my groceries too, cuz I don’t wanna walk to the grocery store and carry it back (it is literally less than one block )

Yeah, we know how you hate cardio!

As always, Upperback rows ended with shrugs.

Get Dem Traps!!!!
Dude, speaking of, my traps are exploding, and it is only going to get more gnarly with the rack pulls and stuff...

 

[jimbuick]

Gyms closed tomorrow, so I’m gonna run in around lunch and do tomorrow’s shoulders and arms session. Planning to work from home all day, so might also try to run to the grocery store if it isn’t too crazy.

 

[jimbuick]

 

[MrKleen73]

Putting in the work today!

 

[jimbuick]

Day one on Pat’s plan. Followed by 25 minutes of incline treadmill walking to stay within the 135-150 bpm range. Pre training meal was oats, banana, egg whites and 1 large egg. Just blended and drank it today. May not always do that, but time was an issue this am. Headed home to have my post workout shake. Shins don’t like cardio any more than I do.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

View attachment 238109View attachment 238110


Day one on Pat’s plan. Followed by 25 minutes of incline treadmill walking to stay within the 135-150 bpm range. Pre training meal was oats, banana, egg whites and 1 large egg. Just blended and drank it today. May not always do that, but time was an issue this am. Headed home to have my post workout shake. Shins don’t like cardio any more than I do.

Gettin after it!!! Good stuff!!!!!

 

[jimbuick]

Probably won’t have regular diet updates in here, but will try to update all of today’s. Post workout is protein, cream of rice, and blueberries. Also blended together and drank (after cooking cream of rice, I’m not a savage).

 

[Dustin07]

Shins don’t like cardio any more than I do.

does Pat have any suggestions there? is it actual shin splints? I haven't had that issue in probably over a decade but I recall it being miserable. I thought that shin splints were connected to very tight calves. but then again, this was a decade + ago so who knows that the consensus is now.

 

[MrKleen73]

does Pat have any suggestions there? is it actual shin splints? I haven't had that issue in probably over a decade but I recall it being miserable. I thought that shin splints were connected to very tight calves. but then again, this was a decade + ago so who knows that the consensus is now.

I am not sure if he has shin splints from his time in the Army, but typically when someone has not done cardio much, and then starts with incline treadmill walking at a pace and incline required to hit that BPM is going to cause the tibialis muscle to get tight and burn throughout that last parts of cardio until the tibialis is conditioned enough to keep flexing the ankles / feet so much higher than it is used to being raised. That muscle doesn't typically get much work walking on a flat surface but gets killed pulling the toes up high enough to walk on that incline. IE, it is much harder to walk heel toe up a hill so unless you are a ball of foot and toe walker it is just going to get uncomfortable.

@jimbuick He told me that he actually prefers elliptical, so if the burn is bothering you too much hop on an elliptical. He is more than okay with it.

 

[Dustin07]

That muscle doesn't typically get much work walking on a flat surface but gets killed pulling the toes up high enough to walk on that incline. IE, it is much harder to walk heel toe up a hill so unless you are a ball of foot and toe walker it is just going to get uncomfortable.

good points! when I was a kid getting started in track & field it was always drove into me to get off my heels. Then when I ran in the vibrams I learned a lot more about staying off my heels if I ever wanted to walk again lol

 

[jimbuick]

I am not sure if he has shin splints from his time in the Army, but typically when someone has not done cardio much, and then starts with incline treadmill walking at a pace and incline required to hit that BPM is going to cause the tibialis muscle to get tight and burn throughout that last parts of cardio until the tibialis is conditioned enough to keep flexing the ankles / feet so much higher than it is used to being raised. That muscle doesn't typically get much work walking on a flat surface but gets killed pulling the toes up high enough to walk on that incline. IE, it is much harder to walk heel toe up a hill so unless you are a ball of foot and toe walker it is just going to get uncomfortable.

@jimbuick He told me that he actually prefers elliptical, so if the burn is bothering you too much hop on an elliptical. He is more than okay with it.

Ok, cool. He gave me elliptical and biking as options, but listed incline treadmill first, so I assumed it was the preferred method. I figure I’ll rotate them out to help stave off boredom? And hopefully condition those muscles some as I’m doing this.

I know biking can sometimes cause me problems with my bad knee, too. I expect I’ll likely end up doing elliptical work more often than not.

 

[jimbuick]

Oh, also, guess I should let y’all know of the updated split:

Mon: Chest/Shoulders
Tue: Legs
Wed: cardio only
Thu: Shoulders/Triceps
Fri: Back/Biceps
Sat: Rest
Sun: Rest

Cardio is on all weekdays immediately post-training (and fasted on Wednesday).

Seems like a strong focus on the delts, but then again, nobody ever had delts that were too wide, so….

Probably would’ve liked a bit more emphasis on the chest, but the work I’m doing is very high intensity there, so we’ll just have to wait and see how it goes.

 

[Dustin07]

I know biking can sometimes cause me problems with my bad knee, too. I expect I’ll likely end up doing elliptical work more often than not.

may or may not help but i have found different stationary bikes have different effects on my knees, as well as my position while riding. I never had knee issues when riding competitively for instance or on an airdyne but have found some of those recumbents at the gym sometimes irritate things. although for me, these days, I wear knee sleeves for almost anything anymore lol

 

[MrKleen73]

Oh, also, guess I should let y’all know of the updated split:

Mon: Chest/Shoulders
Tue: Legs
Wed: cardio only
Thu: Shoulders/Triceps
Fri: Back/Biceps
Sat: Rest
Sun: Rest

Cardio is on all weekdays immediately post-training (and fasted on Wednesday).

Seems like a strong focus on the delts, but then again, nobody ever had delts that were too wide, so….

Probably would’ve liked a bit more emphasis on the chest, but the work I’m doing is very high intensity there, so we’ll just have to wait and see how it goes.

If you added an arm day on Saturday that is my exact split. Were the flies still the opener on your chest day, or did you add that for pre-exhaust?

 

[jimbuick]

If you added an arm day on Saturday that is my exact split. Were the flies still the opener on your chest day, or did you add that for pre-exhaust?

That’s the opener prescribed. I’m not going to add anything. Just gonna trust the process. Can’t say I’m surprised he has us both working with similar plans. Will be interesting to see how they diverge as we continue to work with him and our needs change.

 

[MrKleen73]

That’s the opener prescribed. I’m not going to add anything. Just gonna trust the process. Can’t say I’m surprised he has us both working with similar plans. Will be interesting to see how they diverge as we continue to work with him and our needs change.

Wow, interesting he went with that first. Did you tell him why you were doing it or was this just a chance coincidence?

 

[jimbuick]

Wow, interesting he went with that first. Did you tell him why you were doing it or was this just a chance coincidence?

I guess it was just chance. I sent him my current training and noted that chest was my weakest muscle group physique-wise on the intake questionnaire, but didn’t talk about anything specific like that.

 

[MrKleen73]

I guess it was just chance. I sent him my current training and noted that chest was my weakest muscle group physique-wise on the intake questionnaire, but didn’t talk about anything specific like that.

That's cool that he liked the idea and kept it going.

 

[jimbuick]

Gonna have to try to do legs tomorrow. Overslept about an hour and have an early meeting today, so no chance to try to squeeze it in. Will probably try to get cardio done tonight (which means it won’t be fasted ).

Bleh. Hate not having my own gym.

 

[MrKleen73]

Gonna have to try to do legs tomorrow. Overslept about an hour and have an early meeting today, so no chance to try to squeeze it in. Will probably try to get cardio done tonight (which means it won’t be fasted ).

Bleh. Hate not having my own gym.

Being fasted doesn't really do anything special for your cardio other than possibly feeling better not having a full stomach. The benefit to fasted cardio is often confused with the benefit to doing cardio earlier in the day, and your metabolism being sped up after for longer. Evening cardio the body's circadian rhythm automatically tells the body to start lowering metabolism for rest as bedtime approaches. So you just don't get as long with a raised metabolism. Not a huge deal but being fasted really is not a game changer in any way. The topic has been beaten and studied to death, and those are really the only statistically significant differences which are very minor in the big picture. Fasted or not, your body still has plenty glycogen left to burn off in those first minutes of cardio before things start turning to fat burning a little more predominantly. Plus when it comes to creating a deficit a burned calorie is a burned calorie. So no worries about whether or not cardio is fasted.

 

[MrKleen73]

Oh yeah, we are in the same boat. I got to the gym this morning and realized I left my key fob in the hoodie I wore to the gym yesterday. So I ended up going to the other gym that doesn't open until 5:00 AM. Then had to go to the restroom so I just didn't have any time for legs at all. So I got my cardio out of the way for the day. Going to go tonight to train since tomorrow is an off day and I don't have to be up for the gym at 3:45AM.