Insulin and anti-aging

[eisenmench]

I am taking daily doses of insulin before each meal (3iu) after finding I am on the border of being diabetic. I took a glucose tolerance test consisting of drinking 400ml orange juice and taking a blood glucose reading after fasting and 1 hour after the orange juce. It jumped to 168 in 1/2 hr and was at 130 after 1 hour. As we get older the pancreas gets weaker and blood sugar goes higher, longer causing other serious problems. My fasting level was at <110 but was too high. Since taking 3iu 3-4 times a day it is down to <75. I believe this is helping my pancreas work less and last longer. The question is; does type II diabetes result from insulin sensitivity decreasing or the pancreas wearing out? Does the production of insulin being lessened or decreased insulin sensitivity the main culprit in diabetes type II? Also does exo insulin prevent insulin sensitivity decline? Exo insulin should be good for the wearing out of the pancreas beta cells and their inability to produce insulin fast enough. Even if the pre-diabetic meds that increase insulin sensitivity work does that just prolong the inevitable onset of type II diabetes by the unavoidable pancreatic failure

 

[Nitrox]

Great questions! When I came down with diabetic symptoms my family doctor thought I was coming down with type I due to my age and favorable body comp so he referred my to an endocrinologist. Consequently I get to ask some pretty technical questions and get answers that my GP couldn't give.

The question is; does type II diabetes result from insulin sensitivity decreasing or the pancreas wearing out?

With a reduction of insulin sensitivity the beta cells must work harder to produce more insulin. The theory is that the increased workload causes them to gradually fail. Once they begin to fail then blood glucose levels become abnormal. So sensitivity problems cause beta cell failure which then leads to diabetes.

Does the production of insulin being lessened or decreased insulin sensitivity the main culprit in diabetes type II?

Pretty much same as previous question.

Also does exo insulin prevent insulin sensitivity decline?

No. Exo insulin merely replaces endo function. It does not affect the sensitivity issues that caused the problem in the first place. A type 2 diabetic that becomes insulin dependent must still manage their diet and bodyfat levels to keep sensitivity in check. Otherwise it can prevent the exo insulin from controlling blood glucose levels.

Exo insulin should be good for the wearing out of the pancreas beta cells and their inability to produce insulin fast enough.

According to my endocrinologist there is some evidence that exo insulin use in type 2 diabetics can help preserve remaining endo insulin production.

Even if the pre-diabetic meds that increase insulin sensitivity work does that just prolong the inevitable onset of type II diabetes by the unavoidable pancreatic failure

I dont know. I would guess that as long as those meds and lifestyle changes can improve sensitvity such that the beta cells are not overworking then it may arrest the condition. Otherwise I would guess that there will be a progressive decline towards insulin dependency.

 

[jomi822]

I am taking daily doses of insulin before each meal (3iu) after finding I am on the border of being diabetic. I took a glucose tolerance test consisting of drinking 400ml orange juice and taking a blood glucose reading after fasting and 1 hour after the orange juce. It jumped to 168 in 1/2 hr and was at 130 after 1 hour. As we get older the pancreas gets weaker and blood sugar goes higher, longer causing other serious problems. My fasting level was at <110 but was too high. Since taking 3iu 3-4 times a day it is down to <75. I believe this is helping my pancreas work less and last longer. The question is; does type II diabetes result from insulin sensitivity decreasing or the pancreas wearing out? Does the production of insulin being lessened or decreased insulin sensitivity the main culprit in diabetes type II? Also does exo insulin prevent insulin sensitivity decline? Exo insulin should be good for the wearing out of the pancreas beta cells and their inability to produce insulin fast enough. Even if the pre-diabetic meds that increase insulin sensitivity work does that just prolong the inevitable onset of type II diabetes by the unavoidable pancreatic failure

how often do you work out and what is your diet like? working out and restricting your diet can increse your insulin sensitivty. dhea supplementation has also been shown to aid increased insulin sensitivity.

of course...if your beta cells are failing then that is type 1 and the only option is to administer exogenous insulin.

 

[exnihilo]

Exercise after every meal, doesn't have to be for long, 15-30 minutes. The less intense the exercise the longer you should go... That alone will go a long way.

 

[eisenmench]

how often do you work out and what is your diet like? working out and restricting your diet can increse your insulin sensitivty. dhea supplementation has also been shown to aid increased insulin sensitivity.

of course...if your beta cells are failing then that is type 1 and the only option is to administer exogenous insulin.

I do a three way split; 1.chest,shoulders,tris
2.Back, biceps
3. legs
Working 1,off,2,3,off Total tonnage (repsXweight) 80 tons
Max bench 325X1
Max squat 375X10
Max Curls 145X6
I do not eat any sugar, no white bread, mrp for breakfast, lunch high in protein, dinner high in protein, PWO shake.

I take 50mg DHEA ed

I eat foods from a diabetic friends meal planner.

Does Chromium Pic. help with the insulin sensitivity issue?

Thanks

 

[eisenmench]

Great questions! When I came down with diabetic symptoms my family doctor thought I was coming down with type I due to my age and favorable body comp so he referred my to an endocrinologist. Consequently I get to ask some pretty technical questions and get answers that my GP couldn't give.


With a reduction of insulin sensitivity the beta cells must work harder to produce more insulin. The theory is that the increased workload causes them to gradually fail. Once they begin to fail then blood glucose levels become abnormal. So sensitivity problems cause beta cell failure which then leads to diabetes.


Pretty much same as previous question.


No. Exo insulin merely replaces endo function. It does not affect the sensitivity issues that caused the problem in the first place. A type 2 diabetic that becomes insulin dependent must still manage their diet and bodyfat levels to keep sensitivity in check. Otherwise it can prevent the exo insulin from controlling blood glucose levels.


According to my endocrinologist there is some evidence that exo insulin use in type 2 diabetics can help preserve remaining endo insulin production.


I dont know. I would guess that as long as those meds and lifestyle changes can improve sensitvity such that the beta cells are not overworking then it may arrest the condition. Otherwise I would guess that there will be a progressive decline towards insulin dependency.

Thank you for the help

 

[Nitrox]

of course...if your beta cells are failing then that is type 1 and the only option is to administer exogenous insulin.

Not necessarily. With the prevalence and severity of type 2 diabetes on the increase, the definitions of traditional diabetic types are getting blurred. Type 1 diabetics are those who quickly become insulin dependent due to a sudden auto immune response that completely destroys beta cells; they do not necessarily have the insulin sensitivity issues of type 2's.

 

[Nitrox]

I eat foods from a diabetic friends meal planner.

Just be aware that many 'diabetic cookbooks' are aimed towards insulin dependent diabetics and try to meet government agency guidelines for macronutrient ratios. Typically the recipes are moderate to high in carbohydrate (although from good sources). A type 2 diabetic who is trying to maximize blood glucose control through diet to avoid meds and/or exo insulin probbly needs to limit carb intake (and of course total calories).

Before electing to go on insulin I found the diet that worked best for me was a TKD (timed ketogenic diet). Basically all your meals consist only of trace carbs except for meals immediately preceding increased activity where you add in some low-moderate starchy carbs to fuel workouts.

Ultimately your approach will depend on your goals and your priorities. Maximizing your progress in the gym can be at odds with achieving optimal blood glucose levels due carb and calorie restriction. In that case exo insulin supplementation can look favorable.

Does Chromium Pic. help with the insulin sensitivity issue?

Only if you have a chromium deficiency in the first place.

 

[eisenmench]

nitrox - Although an extra boost in the gym is very desirable, I am actually using low doses of insulin to assist my pancreas for longevity/anti-aging purposes primarily. I know that 10iu PWO is recommended in threads here, but that was an extreme for gym performance only(I think). I was put off by the amount of carbs necessary to offset the spike in insulin and the consequences of being that close to danger. The line at consuming enough quantities of carbs to grow and avoiding high glucose levels is one I am trying to find. Isn't insulin sesitivity age related? Does long term low doses of insulin sound safe? In BB's they cycle on/off using the larger doses.

 

[Werewolf]

I seen theories that late onset type II diabetes is being triggered by the drop in HGH which then results in drop of IGF-1. The Lower of exercise with age also results in even less HGH being converted to IGF-1. This shifts the load for controlling blood sugar toward insulin.

They are currently in the very early testing trying IGF-1R3 instead of Insulin for people (actually I think animals now) who are just starting to have high blood sugar problems to if this is better than insulin in preventing the down hill slide toward insulin dependence. They are also testing various mixes of IGF-1R3 and Insulin to see if there is an optimum mix.

 

[Nitrox]

nitrox - Although an extra boost in the gym is very desirable, I am actually using low doses of insulin to assist my pancreas for longevity/anti-aging purposes primarily. I know that 10iu PWO is recommended in threads here, but that was an extreme for gym performance only(I think). I was put off by the amount of carbs necessary to offset the spike in insulin and the consequences of being that close to danger. The line at consuming enough quantities of carbs to grow and avoiding high glucose levels is one I am trying to find. Isn't insulin sesitivity age related? Does long term low doses of insulin sound safe? In BB's they cycle on/off using the larger doses.

Yeah Im not talking about the 'bodybuilding protocol' at all. Thats a completely different, and IMO, often misunderstood animal but that's another thread.

Im basically doing what you are except probably to a greater degree. My maintenance calorie level is close to 3000 kcals. I dont have anywhere near enough endo insulin left to metabolize that much energy from a 30P/40C/30F diet so I take insulin with each meal (about 3-4 iu of Novorapid with every 500kcal meal). For me to not have to use insulin and maintain reasonable A1C values I would probably have to go on a 2000kcal 30P/10C/60F diet. In which case I would probably drop down to about 130lbs@7% (Im already a 155lb ecto) and disappear when I turn sideways :whiner: . In this regard using insulin helps me out in the gym.

I know that sensitivity is somewhat age related due to the fact that the older one gets the less intense one can perform exercise. Werewolf's info sounds good too. But I also know from personal experience that one can get a lot of it back with exercise and lowering body fat percentage; it's just the insulin output that doesnt return.

BTW what type of insulin are you using and is it doctor supervised? I *can't* (edit) see why long term insulin use wouldnt be safe for a type 2 diabetic. For some like myself it is arguably a necessity anyway if it is required for maintaining safe blood glucose levels.

 

[eisenmench]

I am self-administered Humilin r. I am also on HGH 2iu 2X 6/1. Thought adding the insulin would help with the sugar. I was surprised with the numbers when I got a glucose meter and tested myself fasting and after meals. Werewolf's info sounds promising. I wanted to keep ahead of the trend.

 

[jcam222]

Have any of you tryed Cinnulin for diabetes? Just curious as the other day over lunch with a client the topic of diabetes came up. Turns out he was diabetic. Had at one time took shots for it, also at some point was on glucophage. Ultimately Through diet and Cinnulin he is completely under control for his diabetes. I found that interesting.

 

[eisenmench]

Have any of you tryed Cinnulin for diabetes? Just curious as the other day over lunch with a client the topic of diabetes came up. Turns out he was diabetic. Had at one time took shots for it, also at some point was on glucophage. Ultimately Through diet and Cinnulin he is completely under control for his diabetes. I found that interesting.

I go to Starbucks and use cinnamon in my coffee for blood sugar. In another vein, I believe I saw testimony stating that the lowering of ILGF could be a contributing factor to type II diabetes. SO.......hopefully using HGH in addition to daily low doses of insulin will also prevent/postpone the onset of diabetes.

 

[eisenmench]

Insane or insulin?

Self administering insulin is insane. This is VERY serious stuff.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with Anti-Aging Medicine!

I got my logic for using insulin in low doses this way: Age takes it's toll on all organs (testicles, etc.) and the hormones they produce become scarce due to the gradual erosion and wearing down of the cells involved. Like test in TRT to boost testosterone to counteract low test symptoms. (Anti-aging, HRT ) the beta cells in the pancreas die out and "need" exo insulin to aid in the glucose control the remaining cells provide. Unlike exo test the exo insulin does not have a feedback mechanism to tell the pancreas to stop producing insulin. The pancreas uses the glucose measurement to determine the necessary output. So the exo insulin just tells the pancreas that more endo insulin is not necessary due to lower glucose levels and the beta cells are not loaded down as much. They have extended life. Also my diet is absent of sugar, very low in simple carbs and low in complex carbs. Low doses of insulin is a reasonable experiment. I am not insulin resistant. I'm high normal on glucose tolerance test. I check glucose levels with a meter. Fasting insulin is <100. EXo HGH is similar in action as it also does not reduce endo HGH. TRT has many more sides and complications to deal with than insulin. BB's using 10-15iu PWO must be people with a death wish. Plus they use it in the morning to prevent catabolic action. The longer my beta cells last the better! Many diabetics (or their Dr.s) that have too late paid attention to their (patient's)insulin levels self administer insulin for years. Check with Invalid Link Removed for more info.

 

[eisenmench]

I seen theories that late onset type II diabetes is being triggered by the drop in HGH which then results in drop of IGF-1. The Lower of exercise with age also results in even less HGH being converted to IGF-1. This shifts the load for controlling blood sugar toward insulin.

They are currently in the very early testing trying IGF-1R3 instead of Insulin for people (actually I think animals now) who are just starting to have high blood sugar problems to if this is better than insulin in preventing the down hill slide toward insulin dependence. They are also testing various mixes of IGF-1R3 and Insulin to see if there is an optimum mix.

INTERESTING! I may be getting unforeseen benefits from HGH.

 

[Werewolf]

That is very interesting. What more can you find for us on this?

One thing to keep in mind is that IGF-1 supplemenation, without subsequent IGFBP-3 increase (as induced by GH supplementation) may increase the risk of cancer.

I have yet to locate the articles I discussed again. I think one is here,but i don't have a password. I thought you might so i will post the the link.

https://profreg.medscape.com/px/getlogin.do;jsessionid=G8G2cpqW0ncPJg2PShKyG1Tv9Y3Hdg5lyLWGX3rqTcxrBv49fzJ0!144652547?urlCache=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tZWRzY2FwZS5jb20vdmlld2FydGljbGUvNDgyMzE1X3ByaW50

 

[Werewolf]

Here are couple interesting articles. The web address is a third very long article.

Dunger D, Yuen K, Ong K.

University Department of Paediatrics, University of Cambridge, Cambridge, UK.

The effects of circulating insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) on glucose metabolism are well recognized. IGF-I is also important in maintaining beta-cell mass and regulating endogenous growth hormone (GH) levels. Low IGF-I levels could explain links between small birth size and the risk of developing type 2 diabetes mellitus in short, obese adults. In a recent prospective study, childhood insulin secretion was related to IGF-I levels and statural growth, whereas insulin sensitivity was related to early post-natal weight gain. Common genetic polymorphisms in the IGF1 gene have been linked to small birth size, post-natal growth and future diabetes risk, but these results have been inconsistent. Recent adult studies have demonstrated that lower baseline IGF-I levels predict the subsequent development of impaired glucose tolerance (IGT), type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease. Administration of low-dose GH therapy, at a dose that minimizes the lipolytic effects of GH and has the ability to increase IGF-I levels, enhances insulin sensitivity in young healthy adults and in GH-deficient adults and increases insulin secretion in individuals with IGT. Whether the administration of low-dose GH, recombinant " IGF-I or combined IGF-I/IGF-binding protein 3 therapy prevents future development of IGT or type 2 diabetes in high-risk normoglycaemic and GH-deficient individuals merits further long-term studies. Copyright 2004 S. Karger AG, Basel.

PMID: 15761241 [PubMed - in process]

Department of Medicine, UNC School of Medicine, Chapel Hill, NC 27599, USA. [email protected]

Insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) has significant structural homology with insulin. IGF-I has been shown to bind to insulin receptors to stimulate glucose transport in fat and muscle, to inhibit hepatic glucose output and to lower blood glucose while simultaneously suppressing insulin secretion. However, the precise role of IGF-I in maintaining normal glucose homeostasis and insulin sensitivity is not well defined. Studies in patients with diabetes have shown that in insulin-deficient states, serum IGF-I concentrations are low and increase with insulin therapy. Similarly, administration of insulin via the portal vein results in optimization of plasma IGF-I concentrations. A patient with an IGF1 gene deletion was shown to have severe insulin resistance that improved with IGF-I therapy. Studies conducted in experimental animals have shown that if IGF-I synthesis by the liver is deleted, the animals become insulin-resistant, and this is improved when IGF-I is administered. Likewise, deletion of the IGF-I receptor in muscle in mice induces severe insulin resistance. Administration of IGF-I to patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus has been shown to result in an improvement in insulin sensitivity and a reduction in the requirement for exogenously administered insulin to maintain glucose homeostasis. A polymorphism in the IGF1 gene that has been shown to reduce serum IGF-I results in an increased prevalence of type 2 diabetes. Taken together, these findings support the conclusion that IGF-I is necessary for normal insulin sensitivity, and impairment of IGF-I synthesis results in a worsening state of insulin resistance. Copyright 2004 S. Karger AG, Basel.

PMID: 15761237 [PubMed - in process]


Invalid Link Removed

 

[machinehead]

And it has absolutely nothing to do with Anti-Aging Medicine!

I may be completely off, but does insulin not increase inflammation?

/hijack

 

[machinehead]

Not a "hijack", Bro. Your post is all in keeping with the subject at hand.

In that case this thread belongs to an pro-aging forum.

Thanks for the info. Very good info overall in the thread too.