Improving running: Steady state or walk/run?

[Kaprice]

I just got an app called Couch to 5K, which helps you prepare to run a 5K even if you're totally out of shape. It's a 9 week program.

It relies heavily on intervals -- walking and running. It increases the run times and decreases the walk times as the program progresses.

Has that been proven to be the best for improving your endurance and speed? Or is it just a way to make running accessible when you're out of shape?

The reason I ask is because i DO have the ability to jog steadily for 5K. But only at a very slow pace. I'm wondering if I should continue to do that and focus on improving my speed each run or if the interval (via the app) is actually more effective.

 

[scherbs]

I just got an app called Couch to 5K, which helps you prepare to run a 5K even if you're totally out of shape. It's a 9 week program.

It relies heavily on intervals -- walking and running. It increases the run times and decreases the walk times as the program progresses.

Has that been proven to be the best for improving your endurance and speed? Or is it just a way to make running accessible when you're out of shape?

The reason I ask is because i DO have the ability to jog steadily for 5K. But only at a very slow pace. I'm wondering if I should continue to do that and focus on improving my speed each run or if the interval (via the app) is actually more effective.

I can't speak to the app, but if you can complete a 5k and are looking to improve your speed, then mixing in interval work (1-2 times a week) along with steady state work is the most effective

 

[Kaprice]

Ahh, so a combination, then. If I'm running 3 times a week, you'd suggest 2 being the intervals and one steady state?

 

[SFreed]

I just got an app called Couch to 5K, which helps you prepare to run a 5K even if you're totally out of shape. It's a 9 week program.

It relies heavily on intervals -- walking and running. It increases the run times and decreases the walk times as the program progresses.

Has that been proven to be the best for improving your endurance and speed? Or is it just a way to make running accessible when you're out of shape?

The reason I ask is because i DO have the ability to jog steadily for 5K. But only at a very slow pace. I'm wondering if I should continue to do that and focus on improving my speed each run or if the interval (via the app) is actually more effective.

It's a great program to increase your speed and stamina. I know a lot of people personally who have followed it and have had great results

 

[wrugg08]

What about guys with weak knees, due to a bad back?

 

[scherbs]

Ahh, so a combination, then. If I'm running 3 times a week, you'd suggest 2 being the intervals and one steady state?

Ideal week (and this is from an ultramarathoner and running coach's perspective) would be 1 interval, 1 steady state as you have been doing, 1 steady state a bit longer)

 

[Kaprice]

Ideal week (and this is from an ultramarathoner and running coach's perspective) would be 1 interval, 1 steady state as you have been doing, 1 steady state a bit longer)

How hard should I be pushing my runs? Should I be trying to keep my breathing and/or my heart rate at a particular level? Or should I be pushing as hard as I can?

I've read things like we should run at a pace where we could speak in regular sentences -- or can breathe through the nose.

 

[scherbs]

For your intervals, go as hard as will allow you to speak in broken sentences (you should be breathing hard during your work intervals). Steady state running you have heard correctly-easy enough that you could have a conversation (I have my athletes talk to each other or-if they are alone-recite the pledge of allegiance)

 

[BBiceps]

When I got my 5k time down to under 20min I just ran 5k on time and just tried to push myself every, most, of the time and beat my last time. Once in awhile I did sprints but when I did, it also ended up being 5k.

My recommendation is to run more.

 

[Kaprice]

When I got my 5k time down to under 20min I just ran 5k on time and just tried to push myself every, most, of the time and beat my last time. Once in awhile I did sprints but when I did, it also ended up being 5k.

My recommendation is to run more.

That may not apply to me. I "run" a 5K in about 45 minutes.

 

[BBiceps]

That may not apply to me. I "run" a 5K in about 45 minutes.

That's very slow and you will get that time down if you do it more.

Just so we're not confusing anything, 5k=5 kilometers, right?

 

[Kaprice]

That's very slow and you will get that time down if you do it more.

Just so we're not confusing anything, 5k=5 kilometers, right?

Yes 5 kilometers. And I know it's slow. I'm old and fat and out of condition. I can do 1 mile in about 10:30. 2 miles slows my average to around 13. 3.1 miles is at about a 15 minute avg pace.

That's why I've asked the question. For someone who drastically loses steam after the first mile, I'm was wanting to know how hard to push for the best progress.

BTW, my legs often cramp or pull when I push too hard --quads and calves. I had to skip yesterday's run because my right calf (near the achilles heel) started hurting when I walk.

 

[scherbs]

As my former assistant coach liked to say: "fast pace, slow pace, any pace is better than none at all"

 

[Kaprice]

As my former assistant coach liked to say: "fast pace, slow pace, any pace is better than none at all"

True, but I'm not looking for advice about what's better than nothing.

 

[BBiceps]

Yes 5 kilometers. And I know it's slow. I'm old and fat and out of condition. I can do 1 mile in about 10:30. 2 miles slows my average to around 13. 3.1 miles is at about a 15 minute avg pace.

That's why I've asked the question. For someone who drastically loses steam after the first mile, I'm was wanting to know how hard to push for the best progress.

BTW, my legs often cramp or pull when I push too hard --quads and calves. I had to skip yesterday's run because my right calf (near the achilles heel) started hurting when I walk.

Ok, good that you have a goal.

I would alternate treadmill and outside, maybe even track and mix up the pace and distance. Time yourself every time and try to beat your last time.

I used to be a horrible runner, I still not very good, but I push myself and now I run far easy with decent times. Even if it sucks, you just have to run, all the time, even if it hurts.

 

[jimjones87]

I would say steady state for sure - and also - I highly recommend trying out 5 different types of brands of shoes.

Shoes make SUCH a huge difference. The higher cushioning the better if you ask me

 

[Kaprice]

I would say steady state for sure - and also - I highly recommend trying out 5 different types of brands of shoes.

Shoes make SUCH a huge difference. The higher cushioning the better if you ask me

I have neither the budget nor the dedication to running to buy 5 sets of shoes. I do have a $100 pair of pretty good running shoes that were recommended by a high end shoe store after analyzing my gait, weight, and standing style.

 

[John Smeton]

I just got an app called Couch to 5K, which helps you prepare to run a 5K even if you're totally out of shape. It's a 9 week program.

It relies heavily on intervals -- walking and running. It increases the run times and decreases the walk times as the program progresses.

Has that been proven to be the best for improving your endurance and speed? Or is it just a way to make running accessible when you're out of shape?

The reason I ask is because i DO have the ability to jog steadily for 5K. But only at a very slow pace. I'm wondering if I should continue to do that and focus on improving my speed each run or if the interval (via the app) is actually more effective.

Interval cardio is what i prefer. there was some research on interval burning more fat and not muscle in less time, if im not mistaken in 2009. Its a no brainier to me, I get up a couple times a week and do fasted interval cardio on the elliptical, which i can go fast. It sure beats running

 

[brutus1]

I just got an app called Couch to 5K, which helps you prepare to run a 5K even if you're totally out of shape. It's a 9 week program.

It relies heavily on intervals -- walking and running. It increases the run times and decreases the walk times as the program progresses.
.............

Theres walk intervals because the program is meant for out of shape beginners. You could follow it even if your are fitter and it will be a gentle progression. For people getting back into shape after a while, I would recommend sticking to it instead of doing tempo runs and things like that.

 

[brutus1]

Interval cardio is what i prefer. there was some research on interval burning more fat and not muscle in less time, if im not mistaken in 2009. Its a no brainier to me, I get up a couple times a week and do fasted interval cardio on the elliptical, which i can go fast. It sure beats running

Interval cardio works well up to a point. The main limitation is that its hard on the body and it will take some time to recover.
The base of endurance training is slow steady state running which has some important benefits as well. Not having a decent endurance base will limit the speed of recovery from interval cardio.

 

[John Smeton]

Interval cardio works well up to a point. The main limitation is that its hard on the body and it will take some time to recover.
The base of endurance training is slow steady state running which has some important benefits as well. Not having a decent endurance base will limit the speed of recovery from interval cardio.

agreed. Like today I did 20 minutes interval, its tough, but I love it, then 15 walk

 

[Eight]

Lots of good comments here. However, I'd say either do the program (even though you can technically get through a 5K, the C25 schedule should have you doing it a lot quicker at the end), or look for 5K-10K bridge programming.

Like building muscles, structure and consistency is the biggest contributing factor.

Edit: the absolute best way - get an actual running coach. Not being an arse, just answering the question. Personally, I think the interval-based apps are pretty great.

 

[John Smeton]

Lots of good comments here. However, I'd say either do the program (even though you can technically get through a 5K, the C25 schedule should have you doing it a lot quicker at the end), or look for 5K-10K bridge programming.

Like building muscles, structure and consistency is the biggest contributing factor.

Edit: the absolute best way - get an actual running coach. Not being an arse, just answering the question. Personally, I think the interval-based apps are pretty great.

The reason i like to do interval myself is because somedays im more tired like yesterday instead of doing 2 minutes 50% and 1 minute hard I went 1:30 seconds 50% and 30 seconds just about all out then repeat. After 15-20 minutes of this I was spent and just wanted to do some steady state walking

 

[John Smeton]

Lots of good comments here. However, I'd say either do the program (even though you can technically get through a 5K, the C25 schedule should have you doing it a lot quicker at the end), or look for 5K-10K bridge programming.

Like building muscles, structure and consistency is the biggest contributing factor.

Edit: the absolute best way - get an actual running coach. Not being an arse, just answering the question. Personally, I think the interval-based apps are pretty great.

The reason i like to do interval myself is because somedays im more tired like yesterday instead of doing 2 minutes 50% and 1 minute hard I went 1:30 seconds 50% and 30 seconds just about all out then repeat. After 15-20 minutes of this I was spent and just wanted to do some steady state walking

 

[Kaprice]

Thanks, All. Great ideas.

My goal is to improve but I never intend to be an actual competetor and I have no interest in building to a 10k.

I just want to get in reasonable condition. I just turned 56 and my body rebells a lot. For the past year, or so, every time I start running again, I pull something. It's frustrating and I have to fight the impulse to give up on running altogether.

My daughter's work has a charity 5K every year and that's what I was hoping to build up to, but my calf has got me limping again and the run in on 10/6, so I think I'm going to sit this one out.

 

[John Smeton]

Thanks, All. Great ideas.

My goal is to improve but I never intend to be an actual competetor and I have no interest in building to a 10k.

I just want to get in reasonable condition. I just turned 56 and my body rebells a lot. For the past year, or so, every time I start running again, I pull something. It's frustrating and I have to fight the impulse to give up on running altogether.

My daughter's work has a charity 5K every year and that's what I was hoping to build up to, but my calf has got me limping again and the run in on 10/6, so I think I'm going to sit this one out.

No way i would do a 5 k or 10 k. I do it for health, and keeping my waist tight. Love getting my heart rate up to 165 for a short time and huffing untill I catch my breathe then go at it again.

 

[John Smeton]

Thanks, All. Great ideas.

My goal is to improve but I never intend to be an actual competetor and I have no interest in building to a 10k.

I just want to get in reasonable condition. I just turned 56 and my body rebells a lot. For the past year, or so, every time I start running again, I pull something. It's frustrating and I have to fight the impulse to give up on running altogether.

My daughter's work has a charity 5K every year and that's what I was hoping to build up to, but my calf has got me limping again and the run in on 10/6, so I think I'm going to sit this one out.

No way i would do a 5 k or 10 k. I do it for health, and keeping my waist tight. Love getting my heart rate up to 165 for a short time and huffing untill I catch my breathe then go at it again.

forgot to mention no way would I run all out. I do mine on the elliptical

 

[Eight]

The reason i like to do interval myself is because somedays im more tired like yesterday instead of doing 2 minutes 50% and 1 minute hard I went 1:30 seconds 50% and 30 seconds just about all out then repeat. After 15-20 minutes of this I was spent and just wanted to do some steady state walking

Sounds good to me.

I'm sort of the opposite - any excuse to avoid high-intensity and I'll take it. But, like leg day, it works so I force myself.

Eventually, you reach a point where there's no substitute for actually getting distance in. But you're really talking quite decent distances by then and I'd expect people to have found their personal preferences by that point.

 

[Eight]

I have no interest in building to a 10k.

You might surprise yourself.

Getting your 5K time down will be an achievement, absolutely, but I bet you'll then start to realise "Hey, if I can do 5K, I can do 10K". It can be addictive. On the other hand, some people just hate it... and I can't blame them really. Hahah.

 

[John Smeton]

Sounds good to me.

I'm sort of the opposite - any excuse to avoid high-intensity and I'll take it. But, like leg day, it works so I force myself.

Eventually, you reach a point where there's no substitute for actually getting distance in. But you're really talking quite decent distances by then and I'd expect people to have found their personal preferences by that point.

I live right on the strip in my city and walk to stores from my house when I want to get in more steady state. I do this whenever im going to the store and want to burn extra calories, its a no brainer. That said, I used to be scared, or think any high intensity cardio would burn my muscle off, but not anymore with interval cardio and just love getting that breathing, sweating and heart rate up.

 

[sammpedd88]

Interval cardio works well up to a point. The main limitation is that its hard on the body and it will take some time to recover.
The base of endurance training is slow steady state running which has some important benefits as well. Not having a decent endurance base will limit the speed of recovery from interval cardio.

Interval cardio is not hard on the body of done correctly. The beauty of intervals is that you can make it as easy or as hard as you want. Just like someone stated previously, it's great for beginners and can be changed to be challenging for someone in shape.

 

[John Smeton]

Interval cardio is not hard on the body of done correctly. The beauty of intervals is that you can make it as easy or as hard as you want. Just like someone stated previously, it's great for beginners and can be changed to be challenging for someone in shape.

if done too hard for too long my cns seems to wear out faster aka burnt out, like going though true hit training with weight. That said, if you feel your body out that day via instinctive training ,you'll be fine

 

[sammpedd88]

if done too hard for too long my cns seems to wear out faster aka burnt out, like going though true hit training with weight. That said, if you feel your body out that day via instinctive training ,you'll be fine

That's exactly what I said, so I agree with you.

 

[brutus1]

Interval cardio is not hard on the body of done correctly. The beauty of intervals is that you can make it as easy or as hard as you want. Just like someone stated previously, it's great for beginners and can be changed to be challenging for someone in shape.

Call it what you like but running 'easy or as hard as you want' isn't interval training.

To , interval training is typically done just once or twice a week max because of the longer recovery time. Thats why slow cardio work is still the base for improving aerobic capacity. And theres several useful physical adaptations that takes place in the body when doing long slow cardio which doesn't happen with higher intensity training.

 

[BBiceps]

Call it what you like but running 'easy or as hard as you want' isn't interval training.

To , interval training is typically done just once or twice a week max because of the longer recovery time. Thats why slow cardio work is still the base for improving aerobic capacity. And theres several useful physical adaptations that takes place in the body when doing long slow cardio which doesn't happen with higher intensity training.

Yes, if interval training is "easy" it's not real interval training, but I guess that's why ppl do it rather than run long distance, because they can cheat on their "intervals", you can't cheat long distance running because when you run long distance you have to get back!

To OP, if you want to be a better runner just have to do it more, it's no way around it.

 

[Kaprice]

Call it what you like but running 'easy or as hard as you want' isn't interval training.

To , interval training is typically done just once or twice a week max because of the longer recovery time. Thats why slow cardio work is still the base for improving aerobic capacity. And theres several useful physical adaptations that takes place in the body when doing long slow cardio which doesn't happen with higher intensity training.

I think you might be confusing interval training with High Intensity Interval Training.

 

[scherbs]

I think you might be confusing interval training with High Intensity Interval Training.

Yes and no-For running purposes, running at "Interval Pace" for short durations is pretty close to HIIT.
If you are talking about what is essentially a broken jog, that will still work, but be far less effective

 

[BBiceps]

I think you might be confusing interval training with High Intensity Interval Training.

Interval training should be HIT other wise it's just slow pace and a litter higher pace jogging.

 

[Kaprice]

To OP, if you want to be a better runner just have to do it more, it's no way around it.

I appreciate your effort but that's a ludicrous statement.

It would be has helpful as saying, "If you want to get stronger, you have to lift more."

My question was about technique, so just saying "more" isn't really what I was looking for.

But thanks for playing!

 

[Kaprice]

Interval training should be HIT other wise it's just slow pace and a litter higher pace jogging.

And that's still called interval training -- and something beginners and old fat guys like me can still benefit from.

 

[Kaprice]

Yes and no-For running purposes, running at "Interval Pace" for short durations is pretty close to HIIT.
If you are talking about what is essentially a broken jog, that will still work, but be far less effective

The tens of thousands of downloads and 5 star reviews of the various programs that help you go from couch/beginner to running a 5K would suggest the slow interval with progressive increases in speed and/or distance is actually quite effective.

 

[BBiceps]

I appreciate your effort but that's a ludicrous statement.

It would be has helpful as saying, "If you want to get stronger, you have to lift more."

My question was about technique, so just saying "more" isn't really what I was looking for.

But thanks for playing!

It's true though, it's no shortcuts unfortunately, if you want to get stronger you have to lift more and if you want to be better at running you have to run, it's no way around it.

 

[BBiceps]

And that's still called interval training -- and something beginners and old fat guys like me can still benefit from.

Even if you old and fat you still have to push it to your max, otherwise it's not point, it might make yourself feel better but it won't do anything to you overall long distance run.

I understand that it's different speed&lenght on people's intervals&sprints but if you don't push it 100% it won't be the same.

 

[Kaprice]

It's true though, it's no shortcuts unfortunately, if you want to get stronger you have to lift more and if you want to be better at running you have to run, it's no way around it.

My point is, I wasn't asking whether I should run or not. I was asking about which different training techniques are more likely to help an out of shape guy improve faster.

Just like some weight lifting techniques are far superior to others for building muscle, some running training methods are more effective than others in improving running endurance and speed.

So, saying "Just do more" isn't particularly helpful.

That's not to say I'm ungrateful for your (and the others) input here. I very much appreciate all of you.

 

[Kaprice]

Even if you old and fat you still have to push it to your max, otherwise it's not point, it might make yourself feel better but it won't do anything to you overall long distance run.

I understand that it's different speed&lenght on people's intervals&sprints but if you don't push it 100% it won't be the same.

There is plenty of evidence that pushing 100% all the time can be less effective than more moderate training.

Injuries, recovery time, etc all need to be taken into consideration.

Again, just using the apps that help you get from the couch to a 10K as an example, it's clear their belief is that starting with walking then working up to walking alternating with jogging and working up to jogging alternating with running, etc is far more effective than starting 100% all out from day one. And the many 5 star reviews suggest they're right.

So, I really don't get where you're getting this idea that 100% is the only way to go.

 

[scherbs]

The tens of thousands of downloads and 5 star reviews of the various programs that help you go from couch/beginner to running a 5K would suggest the slow interval with progressive increases in speed and/or distance is actually quite effective.

And 20 years of highly successful running and coaching (in my case) plus a certification as a USA track coach would disagree.

Is it more effective than nothing-yes. Is it the most effective, no.

Will it work for your purposes, sure.

I am sorry, I was under the impression that you wanted honest feedback on the best way to improve your ability to run distance faster. If you truly want that, you need higher intensity intervals.

But I'm sorry-what do I know, I just do this for a living

 

[Kaprice]

And 20 years of highly successful running and coaching (in my case) plus a certification as a USA track coach would disagree.

Do you also train non-athletes? People who currently struggle to walk briskly for a single block? Would you train those people with the same methods as your top level athletes?

 

[BBiceps]

All I hear is excuses not to run, but what ever, good luck with getting better at running without actually run.

 

[Kaprice]

All I hear is excuses not to run, but what ever, good luck with getting better at running without actually run.

Not sure where you got that. I've been running (slowly) for about 2 miles 3 days a week. In my first post, I said I was trying to get ready for a 5K and wanted to know if steady state or alternating fast and slow is better.

The whole argument has not been about whether to run or not but HOW to build up speed and endurance.

Somehow it devolved into "just run more" and/or "just run as fast as you can" and I pushed back on the rationale for such advice.

 

[scherbs]

Do you also train non-athletes? People who currently struggle to walk briskly for a single block? Would you train those people with the same methods as your top level athletes?

Actually yes-I always differentiate my workouts for all of my athletes.
Even those who start unable to complete a mile benefit from intense (80%-90%) intervals.
You are moving-that is a great start.
You came into this thread wanting advice on how to run faster and I gave it to you. No matter how many downloads your app has had, that doesn't change the fact that mixing in some interval work (true intervals) is the surest way to improve performance