how will you run MGF?

[same_old]

wanting to get "best guesses" on the ideal way to utilize MGF. it's relation to IGF suggests maximization by AAS, insulin, lots of carbs and a ton of protein, so i'll be doing all that, just like i do with IGF. outstanding questions remain:

> do you think a 17aa is required? IGF likes it, i forget why...
> is 20 days (1 bottle) sufficient? i guess this will depend on if results slow the way they do after 3-4 weeks on IGF
> is PWO shot required?
> should the dose be split? i read that the t^.5 is longer...

i could care less about applying controls to this experiment so i know what substance does the growing - you guys didnt pay for my MGF, so i'll do what i want with it!! i'll leave variable reduction to the testers! plus, i generally know what happens with IGF, 17aa, insulin and cals, so it wont be a total surprise...

 

[I-Vtec]

bump for answers

 

[darius]

I ran across some lab online that had human MGF for $120 for 1mcg. Mabybe 50mcg is too much? Maybe too less? Nobody really knows right now..

 

[ugab37]

cant wait to see the results on this one. Is a 20 day cycle about what most people will run

 

[fedaykin]

I have two 1mg vials coming. I'm gunna start at 50mcg and see how it goes from there. I might end up bumping to 75mcg, 100mcg... Who knows?

Do you guys think I should shoot bilateral? One muscle ED and switch from one side to the other? Should I split the dose for multiple shots each day? Any other thoughts?

 

[wideguy]

? Once again some might disagree but 50 seems high compared to what most would say to start on igf-1 ie. 30-40 mcg. I've even heard guys say 20 mcgs worked decent. Not trying to make wave but I'm starting lower (20-30 mcgs) for 2 reasons. One I'm not in the tradition on wasting money or an effective product. Two, I can always increase with a dose that's to low, but once you get the side from a dose that's to high the damage is done (what ever the hell that might be in this case).

 

[dertynasty]

but once you get the side from a dose that's to high the damage is done (what ever the hell that might be in this case).

Like a 25% larger heart in 2 weeks?:toofunny: ... no seriously

 

[Bionic]

I think I read that it doesn't affect smooth muscle only skeletal muscle. Will look for it again but unless you are injecting it into your heart You should have no problems. It's site specific.

 

[dertynasty]

I think I read that it doesn't affect smooth muscle only skeletal muscle. Will look for it again but unless you are injecting it into your heart You should have no problems. It's site specific.

And... am I to assume you have seen any of these studies done on humans?

 

[same_old]

And... am I to assume you have seen any of these studies done on humans?

skeletal muscle is skeletal muscle, rat or human.

and that whole 25% thing - keep in mind that lab geeks made huge gains on rats with just electric stimulation (i think there's a study on this board)

i am expecting IGF-like gains, maybe a little more.

and yeah, i'll be running 2 shots ED, 25mcg/shot, not bilateral...havent decided which muscles to use, but it sure is fun deciding!

i love IGF so much (still have all the gains i made on it) - if this is better i will print money that says "One Nation under IBE" :box:

 

[dertynasty]

skeletal muscle is skeletal muscle, rat or human.

and that whole 25% thing - keep in mind that lab geeks made huge gains on rats with just electric stimulation (i think there's a study on this board)

i am expecting IGF-like gains, maybe a little more.

and yeah, i'll be running 2 shots ED, 25mcg/shot, not bilateral...havent decided which muscles to use, but it sure is fun deciding!

i love IGF so much (still have all the gains i made on it) - if this is better i will print money that says "One Nation under IBE" :box:

Your right about about skeletal muscle being skeletal muscle and smooth being smooth but that doesnt really mean anything when you talk about the 2 gain wise. IGF-1 was showing CRAZY results in rats, yet when taken in humans the results were nothing like the studies done on rats. Yes we do share the same hypothalamus, but this doesnt mean we will share similar results.

However back to our original topic, have you in fact seen any studies done on humans?... lets leave the rats out of this for a min. :drunk:

 

[same_old]

Your right about about skeletal muscle being skeletal muscle and smooth being smooth but that doesnt really mean anything when you talk about the 2 gain wise.

we werent comparing them, gains-wise. i was just saying your "25% larger heart" comment was completely invalid.

 

[wideguy]

I'm going to say that I have not and don't know anyone who has. It's uncharted waters....

 

[UnicronSpawn]

No, studies of MGF on humans do not yet exist. That being said, the heart is niether skeletal, or smoothe muscle, it it cardiac muscle. (Just BTW.)

 

[ryano]

sub

 

[dertynasty]

we werent comparing them, gains-wise. i was just saying your "25% larger heart" comment was completely invalid.

yeah you obviously completely missed my point.

 

[same_old]

yeah you obviously completely missed my point.

guess so bro, but it obviously wasn't all that poignant. if all you were saying was that there haven't been studies on humans, that is completely insufficient evidence to conclude/suggest that a drug that acts only on skeletal muscle will suddenly start affecting smooth muscle (heart)

 

[coffee4me]

This factor is a splice variant of IGF-1 produced by active muscle. MGF is derived from the IGF-1 gene by alternative splicing but it has different exons to the liver isoforms. MGF is structurally identical to IGF-1 Eb, identified originally as an isoform of hepatic IGF-1 (Roberts et al, 1987). MGF has a 52 base insert in the E domain which alters the reading frame of the 3' end.
MGF is detected in normal muscle and is markedly upregulated after mechanical stimulation (Yang et al. 1996; McKoy et al. 1999). MGF appears to be a factor that controls local tissue repair, maintenance and remodelling, distinguishing it from the liver IGFs which have a systemic mode of action. Expression of the factor is upregulated in cardiac as well as skeletal muscle when subjected to overload. MGF is not detectable in dystrophic mdx muscles even when subjected to stretch and stretch combined with electrical stimulation (Goldspink, 1999).
MGF causes myoblast proliferation but prevents differentiation (Yang and Goldspink, 2002) and appears to be esponsible for satellite cell activation in rat skeletal muscle (Hill and Goldspink, 2003). Aperghis et al (2004) have demonstrated that MGF also promotes motoneuron survival.
LAST MODIFIED: January 2004 REFERENCES: Aperghis M et al Different levels of neuroprotection by two insulin-like growth factor-I splice variants. Brain Research 1009: 213-218 (2004); Goldspink G Changes in muscle mass and phenotype and the expression of autocrine and systemic growth factors by muscle in response to stretch and overload. Journal of Anatomy 194(3): 323-34 (1999); McKoy G et al Expression of insulin growth factor-1 splice variants and structural genes in rabbit skeletal muscle induced by stretch and stimulation. Journal of Physiology 516: 583-592 (1999); Roberts CT et al Molecular cloning of rat insulin-like growth factor I complementary deoxyribonucleic acids: differential messenger ribonucleic acid processing and regulation by growth hormone in extrahepatic tissues. Molecular Endocrinology 1: 243-248 (1987); Yang S et al Cloning and characterization of an IGF-1 isoform expressed in skeletal muscle subjected to stretch. Journal of Muscle Research and Cell Motility 17: 487-495 (1996); Yang SY and Goldspink G Different roles of the IGF-I Ec peptide (MGF) and mature IGF-I in myoblast proliferation and differentiation. FEBS Letters 522: 156-160 (2002)

 

[same_old]

well that's something. apparently derived from testing subjects who've just exercised. the real question is - did they measure those mice's hearts after 2 weeks?

how do we really know how LOCAL this substance is?

 

[fedaykin]

guess so bro, but it obviously wasn't all that poignant. if all you were saying was that there haven't been studies on humans, that is completely insufficient evidence to conclude/suggest that a drug that acts only on skeletal muscle will suddenly start affecting smooth muscle (heart)

NOT smooth muscle, Cardiac muscle. They are two different things.

 

[dertynasty]

guess so bro, but it obviously wasn't all that poignant. if all you were saying was that there haven't been studies on humans, that is completely insufficient evidence to conclude/suggest that a drug that acts only on skeletal muscle will suddenly start affecting smooth muscle (heart)

Like i said before, just because it doesnt have that effect in mice, does not mean it would not have that effect on CARDIAC muscle in humans. But anways that study that guy posted said it does infact effect cardiac muscle, however this will depend on if it is destroyed before reaching the heart.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

how do we really know how LOCAL this substance is?

thats a good point/question. If the effects are truly only local, then administration would not effect cardiac muscle the way natural production after resistance training would. But I do not recall any of the studies that I personally read addresing the issue (of how local is exogeneously administered MGF really). Time for some more pubmed searches.

 

[same_old]

Like i said before, just because it doesnt have that effect in mice, does not mean it would not have that effect on CARDIAC muscle in humans. But anways that study that guy posted said it does infact effect cardiac muscle, however this will depend on if it is destroyed before reaching the heart.

NO, it didnt say that. expression of MGF in a muscle that has been worked is not the same as injected MGF finding its way into the heart.

 

[dertynasty]

NO, it didnt say that. expression of MGF in a muscle that has been worked is not the same as injected MGF finding its way into the heart.

Im done arguing with u bro. Take care.

cheers:yawn:

 

[same_old]

Im done arguing with u bro. Take care.

i can appreciate that you dont like to be called out as wrong, but

"Expression of the factor is upregulated in cardiac as well as skeletal muscle when subjected to overload."

is not the same as this:

"that study that guy posted said it does infact effect cardiac muscle"

they didnt inject MGF into anything and look for effects - they just worked the muscle and looked for MGF. the two scenarios are different.

just like you, i want to know what MGF will do to my body, good and bad...and inferring some things from known studies is a start.

i say: thank god it's only for 2-3 weeks - i worry about my heart most of all with juicing.