how long does it take for natural test to come back after cycle??

Mitch_310

Mitch_310

Member
hey guys. So I just got done running a DMZ and 4 AD cycle. the cycle went well with 18 pounds total gain in 5 weeks

Just had blood work done about 5 days after the cycle ended. My test came back at 6. YES SIX, out of a normal range of 250-1100 ng/DL (another note is my liver values were high, despite taking multiple cycle support and TUDCA, so that didn't help my cause)

My estrogen is in check since I'm running Nolva and Letro for the mild gyno I got, (which is 90 percent gone) came back at 16 which was in the lower middle range of estrogen.

I was really stunned that I was that shutdown since I've kept 13 pounds of muscle gained and my strength is still going strong, My libido is shot but I can function if you know what I mean.

I'm a young guy, prob too young(I don't plan on my messing with my HPTA for a long while now.. I've learned my lesson) (22), my question is if I keep up with PCT how long should I bounce back. 4 weeks? 6 weeks? 6 months? any inputs? plan of getting bloods taken again in about 6 weeks to see how I recover; until then Im laying off the gas for a while so I can fully recover.
 
What’s ur pct layout? Everyone is different, some people will return to normal right after pct, some could take upwards of a year to return to normal. I’d get your bloodwork about a month after finishing pct or so.
 
Nolva 20/20/20/10/10 letro 2.5mg ED then taper until gyno is 100 percent gone 1.75/1.25/1/.75./.50/.25/.25 then aromasin 12.5mg EOD

SUP3R PCT 10 capsules ED
Testosyn (natty test booster) 6 caps ED
GW501516 10mg ED
 
I’m not tripping too bad, I know my natural levels can only go up from here on out. I haven’t really cycled heavily before either. This is only my third cycle before this I ran 1 andro then took a month off inbetween cycles before running this. I understand it may take a while but I just want to be within a normal to normal high range. Not completely bottomed out cause I’m not trying to be on TRT at such a young age
 
Mitch_310 said:
I’m not tripping too bad, I know my natural levels can only go up from here on out. I haven’t really cycled heavily before either. This is only my third cycle before this I ran 1 andro then took a month off inbetween cycles before running this. I understand it may take a while but I just want to be within a normal to normal high range. Not completely bottomed out cause I’m not trying to be on TRT at such a young age
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Hate to say it but I think your first mistake was not taking off enough time between cycles. Did you have blood work done before this cycle? Very likely you could have still been suppressed from the 1-andro cycle.
 
210LBS said:
Hate to say it but I think your first mistake was not taking off enough time between cycles. Did you have blood work done before this cycle? Very likely you could have still been suppressed from the 1-andro cycle.
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Unfortunately I didn’t get bloods done pre cycle or post cause I wasn’t getting bad effects and coming off cycle I kept all my gains and I didn’t notice anything so I didn’t Bother to Get blood work. You very well could have been right, just hoping that i didn’t mess myself up permanently. I’ll make a note to take much longer gaps in between cycles and always get bloods to confirm. You live and you learn I guess
 
Mitch_310 said:
Unfortunately I didn’t get bloods done pre cycle or post cause I wasn’t getting bad effects and coming off cycle I kept all my gains and I didn’t notice anything so I didn’t Bother to Get blood work. You very well could have been right, just hoping that i didn’t mess myself up permanently. I’ll make a note to take much longer gaps in between cycles and always get bloods to confirm. You live and you learn I guess
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Yeah, we were just talking about this in another thread. A lot of time people don't feel suppressed and they think everything is good. A lot of people assume liver, blood pressure, cholesterol are all good because they feel fine. Unfortunately, blood work can sometimes contradict how we feel.
 
Mitch_310 said:
210LBS any advice? Just keep running pct and follow up with bloods in about 6-8 weeks??
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That's what I would do. See your PCT through and see if you recover. But like AnabolicGuru said, it can take some time. Keep training and living a healthy lifestyle and avoid things like excessive drinking that can mess with hormones.
 
How long were you running letro prior to the bloodwork? Estradiol of 16pg/ml is alarming for someone on 2.5mg letro daily. Your situation is tricky because of the letro usage for gyno reversal.
 
I was on the letro for 2 days prior to the blood test. My guess was my estrogen was extremely high and I had no testosterone so my body was trying to stabilize, I've been managing it as best as I can. At least I don't have ****ing gyno anymore haha. But there's nothing I can really do for my test levels besides train hard and follow a good pct
 
AnabolicGuru said:
How long were you running letro prior to the bloodwork? Estradiol of 16pg/ml is alarming for someone on 2.5mg letro daily. Your situation is tricky because of the letro usage for gyno reversal.
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True. I didn't realize you were running 2.5mgs every day - that should absolutely obliterate your estrogen. Also, it's not a great AI choice for PCT as it can really f**k with your libido and lipids. But I understand you're using it for gyno... which makes it tricky.
 
once Im satisfied with the gyno reduction i will taper off and switch to aromasin for the remainder of PCT. My libido is low but not shot, and no problems performing as of now so at least that is a plus
 
Man....Why wouldn't you take Ralox for gyno reduction? Together with nolva it would even help bouncing your test back, without drying your joints out and causing all kinds of havoc due to low e2.

Personally, I would have run a clomid PCT like 100/50/50/50/25 with Ralox 60/30/30/30/30. Gyno would be gone by week 4, at least for me it worked.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Man....Why wouldn't you take Ralox for gyno reduction? Together with nolva it would even help bouncing your test back, without drying your joints out and causing all kinds of havoc due to low e2.

Personally, I would have run a clomid PCT like 100/50/50/50/25 with Ralox 60/30/30/30/30. Gyno would be gone by week 4, at least for me it worked.
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I didn’t have Ralox on hand. Just nolva, aromasin, and letro. The aromasin didn’t do anything but the letro did. I just wanted the gyno gone fast. And letro looked like my best bet at the time
 
Mitch_310 said:
I didn’t have Ralox on hand. Just nolva, aromasin, and letro. The aromasin didn’t do anything but the letro did. I just wanted the gyno gone fast. And letro looked like my best bet at the time
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I’ll pick up some ralox and some more nolva. Taper off the letro and switch to aromasin. Train hard, and take a natty test booster and wait it out. I’ll get bloods done after pct most likely which will be somewhere between 6-8 weeks. Hopefully I can get a nice jump by then. Looking to get back into a mid to mid high range
 
Mitch_310 said:
I didn’t have Ralox on hand. Just nolva, aromasin, and letro. The aromasin didn’t do anything but the letro did. I just wanted the gyno gone fast. And letro looked like my best bet at the time
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If you could manage the sides -everything that works is okay, I guess. For your PCT....
I would do it aggressively. Maybe even with 2-3 shots of HCG/1000iu eod (even though it should be done before PCT). Then: Clomid + Nolva (I would prefer Torem) + DHEA for at least 5 weeks.
You should not use an AI in PCT because you don't have any test that could convert to e2.
Personally, I never used AI in PCT, only afterwards to avoid rebound.
 
Mitch_310 said:
I’ll pick up some ralox and some more nolva. Taper off the letro and switch to aromasin. Train hard, and take a natty test booster and wait it out. I’ll get bloods done after pct most likely which will be somewhere between 6-8 weeks. Hopefully I can get a nice jump by then. Looking to get back into a mid to mid high range
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NO! No more AI for you. Taking a Serm makes it unnecessary. First get your test up, without test = no e2. Get clomid and DHEA maybe a natural test booster too -and think about HCG.
 
Mitch_310 said:
Ok. How would DHEA help me? Isn’t that a PH?
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No. DHEA are the building blocks for conversion to hormones your body needs. Its not of great importance in PCT -but in your case it may help. You get it OTC at any shop, pharmacy, amazon.
 
hairygrandpa said:
If you could manage the sides -everything that works is okay, I guess. For your PCT....
I would do it aggressively. Maybe even with 2-3 shots of HCG/1000iu eod (even though it should be done before PCT). Then: Clomid + Nolva (I would prefer Torem) + DHEA for at least 5 weeks.
You should not use an AI in PCT because you don't have any test that could convert to e2.
Personally, I never used AI in PCT, only afterwards to avoid rebound.
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I've never heard of implementing HCG this late into PCT before. Not saying it's a bad idea or anything, but not sure I've ever heard of it being used this late so not sure of the impact it would have at this point.
 
Hmmm, yea once you finish the letro, add in the low dose aromasin for a bit to prevent rebound like you already planned. Aromasin is by far the best aromatize inhibitor out there, not the strongest, but it comes with many benefits.
 
I think you should wait for the dhea until way later if you really need it. its not going to help your testes get back in shape.
 
Georgiepecker 10/10 would not recommend since I feel like total garbage. I’ve been supplementing with 5htp and l dopa seeds to help my mood. But I’m trying to make the best of it
 
I jumped off after blasting and cruising all of 2016, and never recovered. I’m on for good now... But in my early 30s, I came off a heavy 12 week cycle and within 2 months, my test was 860. I’d throw everything mentioned here and then some at it, because it takes a ridiculously long time to recover sometimes and there’s no way to know based on what you took or for how long, how bad it will be. I’ve had good results with hcg/Clomid. It makes very little difference if you blast hcg in Pct or use during cycle. Everyone has “their” way but neither way has ever disproven the other on that one.
 
Matthersby said:
I jumped off after blasting and cruising all of 2016, and never recovered. I’m on for good now... But in my early 30s, I came off a heavy 12 week cycle and within 2 months, my test was 860. I’d throw everything mentioned here and then some at it, because it takes a ridiculously long time to recover sometimes and there’s no way to know based on what you took or for how long, how bad it will be. I’ve had good results with hcg/Clomid. It makes very little difference if you blast hcg in Pct or use during cycle. Everyone has “their” way but neither way has ever disproven the other on that one.
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Good Info thanks. I’m it trying to be on TRT forever unless I absolutely need it. But I think I my case I feel like I won’t, I just started cycling recently and this is my first time of really being totally shutdown... will just have to wait and see. I’ve heard a lot more no’s than yes’s when it comes to hcg. I don’t think it will give me that much benefit anyways right now
 
Mitch_310 said:
Good Info thanks. I’m it trying to be on TRT forever unless I absolutely need it. But I think I my case I feel like I won’t, I just started cycling recently and this is my first time of really being totally shutdown... will just have to wait and see. I’ve heard a lot more no’s than yes’s when it comes to hcg. I don’t think it will give me that much benefit anyways right now
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You ran 2 cycles way too close together, so it's not too surprising that your test is totally tanked. You only got tested 5 days into PCT (so only 4 or 5 tamox doses?), which is really not enough time to gauge it just yet. I believe it takes about 5-7 days for the tamox to really start showing significant improvements in test? I think that is around what most of the studies show but don't quote me on it. I would just focus on PCT, staying healthy, and following up with more blood work.
 
Mitch_310 said:
hey guys. So I just got done running a DMZ and 4 AD cycle. the cycle went well with 18 pounds total gain in 5 weeks

Just had blood work done about 5 days after the cycle ended. My test came back at 6. YES SIX, out of a normal range of 250-1100 ng/DL (another note is my liver values were high, despite taking multiple cycle support and TUDCA, so that didn't help my cause)

My estrogen is in check since I'm running Nolva and Letro for the mild gyno I got, (which is 90 percent gone) came back at 16 which was in the lower middle range of estrogen.

I was really stunned that I was that shutdown since I've kept 13 pounds of muscle gained and my strength is still going strong, My libido is shot but I can function if you know what I mean.

I'm a young guy, prob too young(I don't plan on my messing with my HPTA for a long while now.. I've learned my lesson) (22), my question is if I keep up with PCT how long should I bounce back. 4 weeks? 6 weeks? 6 months? any inputs? plan of getting bloods taken again in about 6 weeks to see how I recover; until then Im laying off the gas for a while so I can fully recover.
Click to expand...

Raloxifene and toremifene, 30 + 30 mg/day for 8 weeks. No taper and no other drugs. No AI. Both problems fixed.

You're welcome.
 
210LBS said:
You ran 2 cycles way too close together, so it's not too surprising that your test is totally tanked. You only got tested 5 days into PCT (so only 4 or 5 tamox doses?), which is really not enough time to gauge it just yet. I believe it takes about 5-7 days for the tamox to really start showing significant improvements in test? I think that is around what most of the studies show but don't quote me on it. I would just focus on PCT, staying healthy, and following up with more blood work.
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I’ll follow up with another post on here with my recovery to give you guys an update on my next blood test. Other than that I plan on just recovering
 
I'm 33, and haven't gotten bloodwork done in a few years so no clue what my test levels are right now...Last time I had it checked i was in the 850 range.
Trying to decide if running a low dosed 16mg DMZ cycle will be a smart thing or not (especially in the long run). I haven't run anything in over 5yrs, and always used proper PCT and recovery time. I know most folks on here say to up the dosage for DMZ, but after talking to Patrick Arnold, he said that 16mg will definitely build some solid muscle and not be a "waste" (as most refer to it as) at all. Can always bump it up to 32mg later in the cycle if sides aren't terrible.
Would like to hear some opinions...Will a low dosed cycle shut you down as bad compared to a higher dose cycle? Seems like some say "shutdown is shutdown". Lots of mixed opinions it seems.

*Sorry for de-railing the thread, was just curious since the OP mentioned all this after a DMZ run.
 
Kratom267 said:
I'm 33, and haven't gotten bloodwork done in a few years so no clue what my test levels are right now...Last time I had it checked i was in the 850 range.
Trying to decide if running a low dosed 16mg DMZ cycle will be a smart thing or not (especially in the long run). I haven't run anything in over 5yrs, and always used proper PCT and recovery time. I know most folks on here say to up the dosage for DMZ, but after talking to Patrick Arnold, he said that 16mg will definitely build some solid muscle and not be a "waste" (as most refer to it as) at all. Can always bump it up to 32mg later in the cycle if sides aren't terrible.
Would like to hear some opinions...Will a low dosed cycle shut you down as bad compared to a higher dose cycle? Seems like some say "shutdown is shutdown". Lots of mixed opinions it seems.

*Sorry for de-railing the thread, was just curious since the OP mentioned all this after a DMZ run.
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Dmz for me was a great compound to run and I got significant gains fast. 18lb increase, strength was way up and recovery was bomb. With that being said though it is advised to run it with some form of test base to help combat test suppression ON CYCLE. A lot of people say that sweet spot was inbetween 30-40 mg. Which is what I ran. With that being said you gotta run an AI on cycle with this

Even though it is a dry compound it still can aromatize and if you run it with something like test or 4 AD you must run an AI.

Now the negatives, liver strain. Take all the TUDCA or cycle support you want. No matter what that will only “help” the problem. Even when I took cycle support liver values came back high which was no good. Also cholesterol and blood pressure is also something that will need to be dealt with. I had troubles falling asleep some nights because of my blood pressure. It went back down after cycle

As for shutdown it really depends, for me since I didn’t take enough one off inbetween cycles I may have been partially shutdown without even knowing it. I also developed a tiny bit of gyno on cycle. With that said after I came off my test was tanked, and I needed to get estrogen down. Some things will crash you harder than others but dmz is very strong. Since it is an oral it will shut you down fast.

At a low dosage like you said it could give you good gains and mild shutdown, good gains and total shutdown, no gains and totals shutdown. It really depends on the person. Only way to find out is to do it yourself. But In my case, my natural test got fried. Hope that helps
 
Spurfy said:
Raloxifene and toremifene, 30 + 30 mg/day for 8 weeks. No taper and no other drugs. No AI. Both problems fixed.

You're welcome.
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This^. And next cycle use clomid or torem DURING your cycle. I used clomid @ 25mg/ day during my last cycle (10-12 weeks of primo + dbol) and a week after my last (long ester) injection my test level was still at 450. I was 36 at the time.
 
Mitch_310 said:
Dmz for me was a great compound to run and I got significant gains fast. 18lb increase, strength was way up and recovery was bomb. With that being said though it is advised to run it with some form of test base to help combat test suppression ON CYCLE. A lot of people say that sweet spot was inbetween 30-40 mg. Which is what I ran. With that being said you gotta run an AI on cycle with this

Even though it is a dry compound it still can aromatize and if you run it with something like test or 4 AD you must run an AI.

Now the negatives, liver strain. Take all the TUDCA or cycle support you want. No matter what that will only “help” the problem. Even when I took cycle support liver values came back high which was no good. Also cholesterol and blood pressure is also something that will need to be dealt with. I had troubles falling asleep some nights because of my blood pressure. It went back down after cycle

As for shutdown it really depends, for me since I didn’t take enough one off inbetween cycles I may have been partially shutdown without even knowing it. I also developed a tiny bit of gyno on cycle. With that said after I came off my test was tanked, and I needed to get estrogen down. Some things will crash you harder than others but dmz is very strong. Since it is an oral it will shut you down fast.

At a low dosage like you said it could give you good gains and mild shutdown, good gains and total shutdown, no gains and totals shutdown. It really depends on the person. Only way to find out is to do it yourself. But In my case, my natural test got fried. Hope that helps
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Thanks for the info man!
Depending on the sides, i may increase the dosage on week 2 or 3. Most likely 16/16/32/32.
Also, you said you took a cycle support, I'm guessing it was NAC and Milk Thistle for the liver care ingredients correct? Did you also run TUDCA with it while on cycle? You mentioned TUDCA but not sure if you took it ON or after...
I'm not taking any 4ad or trest, but will be adding in Dermacrine and Stano...not sure if those are really considered a "test base" seems like there are mixed opinions on those. Hopefully they will help with lethargy a bit. As far as estrogen issues go on cycle, i was reading an old post from PA, and he mentioned that taking a AI on cycle with DMZ isn't recommended (as long as you aren't taking an actual test base sup) because DMZ will already tank your estrogen level, and you need some to help with sides/gains (that's the main cliff notes version at least). He did recommend taking an AI along with a SERM for PCT though.

But ill definitely keep an AI on hand just in case, thanks for your advise! Also thinking about running 25mg of clomid while on cycle as well...though that seems to be up for debate as well...Lots of research to do. Advice has changed since I last ran any PH's!
How was the insomnia during your cycle?
 
Kratom267 said:
Thanks for the info man!
Depending on the sides, i may increase the dosage on week 2 or 3. Most likely 16/16/32/32.
Also, you said you took a cycle support, I'm guessing it was NAC and Milk Thistle for the liver care ingredients correct? Did you also run TUDCA with it while on cycle? You mentioned TUDCA but not sure if you took it ON or after...
I'm not taking any 4ad or trest, but will be adding in Dermacrine and Stano...not sure if those are really considered a "test base" seems like there are mixed opinions on those. Hopefully they will help with lethargy a bit. As far as estrogen issues go on cycle, i was reading an old post from PA, and he mentioned that taking a AI on cycle with DMZ isn't recommended (as long as you aren't taking an actual test base sup) because DMZ will already tank your estrogen level, and you need some to help with sides/gains (that's the main cliff notes version at least). He did recommend taking an AI along with a SERM for PCT though.

But ill definitely keep an AI on hand just in case, thanks for your advise! Also thinking about running 25mg of clomid while on cycle as well...though that seems to be up for debate as well...Lots of research to do. Advice has changed since I last ran any PH's!
How was the insomnia during your cycle?
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Yeah TUDCA on cycle. Everyone is different for estrogen. For me I’m very sensitive and whenever I take something stronger than epiandro or 1 andro I seem to run into problems. Thankfully I’ve caught all of them early enough to stop it from getting out of control. It depends on the person, with your dose you could prob get away with not running a base at that does but then it just depends on the individual.

See how you like it, for me it was fun. But you the risks and the effects it can have from messing with hormones.
 
Mitch_310 said:
Yeah TUDCA on cycle. Everyone is different for estrogen. For me I’m very sensitive and whenever I take something stronger than epiandro or 1 andro I seem to run into problems. Thankfully I’ve caught all of them early enough to stop it from getting out of control. It depends on the person, with your dose you could prob get away with not running a base at that does but then it just depends on the individual.

See how you like it, for me it was fun. But you the risks and the effects it can have from messing with hormones.
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Yeah I was thinking about taking CEL's Cycle Assist and CEL's TUDCA as well. Another main concern is prostate issues, during my past final cycle (Hdrol/Trenazone/Stano) it took forever to pee...not fun when you have to piss in the middle of the night when you are already not sleeping well and have to stare at the toilet for 20mins! But during PCT that issue went away, hopefully the Saw Palmetto in cycle assist will keep that at bay...
Have you ever used Dermacrine? Ive been reading some say they loved it as a little test base, while others think it does nothing...
 
Kratom267 said:
Yeah I was thinking about taking CEL's Cycle Assist and CEL's TUDCA as well. Another main concern is prostate issues, during my past final cycle (Hdrol/Trenazone/Stano) it took forever to pee...not fun when you have to piss in the middle of the night when you are already not sleeping well and have to stare at the toilet for 20mins! But during PCT that issue went away, hopefully the Saw Palmetto in cycle assist will keep that at bay...
Have you ever used Dermacrine? Ive been reading some say they loved it as a little test base, while others think it does nothing...
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Don’t know much about it I’ve never tried it. Unless it is test or converts to it I prob won’t do a whole lot. It May help you though, run it if you do the cycle and see if it does anything. idk about prostate. That sounds like it sucks a lot though man haha. I never had any issues in that area.
 
Mitch_310 said:
Don’t know much about it I’ve never tried it. Unless it is test or converts to it I prob won’t do a whole lot. It May help you though, run it if you do the cycle and see if it does anything. idk about prostate. That sounds like it sucks a lot though man haha. I never had any issues in that area.
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Cool, well when I run the cycle ill let you know how it goes! Appreciate all the feedback bro.
 
The only other thing I’d suggest is to get a vial of HCG and run it immediately for ~2 weeks. You want to do it and be done so there still a few weeks of serm use alone afterwards.

Obviously hcg is best used during cycle to prevent shutdown, but because you only took a month off you never full recovered. Hcg would jumpstart things again.

I’ve been in a similar boat- just going to a doctor and telling him the situation was the best decision ever. Pharma hcg for cheap. Pins, bac water and everything on the script. And it helped a lot!
 
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