High E, but low E2

[lowesclubmake]

I know that the total estrogens test is generally viewed here as useless. However, I continue to see test results that show pretty low E2 numbers (range from say 4-25), but total E numbers ranging from 130-160. (there was one test that was <50, but all others have been high).

The total estrogens number was high before TRT, and E2 wasn't measured before. bioavailable and Free T continue to be low, probably because of high SHBG.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[pmgamer18]

I did this every 4 weeks for 2 yrs testing total E and E2 from one week to the other my E2 was stable but Total E's were high and I felt fine then we find out there is no test for men that can check Total E's and when I called the lab they told me the test was on the order I asked then all you care about is the money you can't say anything on the results that this is a womens test. I rest my case.

 

[KSman]

I know that the total estrogens test is generally viewed here as useless. However, I continue to see test results that show pretty low E2 numbers (range from say 4-25), but total E numbers ranging from 130-160. (there was one test that was <50, but all others have been high).

The total estrogens number was high before TRT, and E2 wasn't measured before. bioavailable and Free T continue to be low, probably because of high SHBG.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I find this all confusing and some do not want to use an AI because the E2 is "OK". I think that the other Estrogen's (oE <-just made that up) are metabolites of E2 and that the source is E2. So if E2 production rates are high, but metabolization is also high, then it seems obvious to me to need to reduce the fuel, E2, that drives the production of oE. I look forward to others busting this idea.

The elevated oE can inhibit libido and the HPTA.

The oE pressure can increase SHBG as does E2. Increased SHBG can explain the low FT or bioT.

Add AI and E2 production goes down, leading to less oE+E2 effects.

Why would the body be metabolizing E2 in an unusual rate/way? Hard to tell, but perhaps it is trying to get cope with higher E2 production rates. Driven by higher BF or higher levels of aromatase?

 

[hardasnails1973]

I find this all confusing and some do not want to use an AI because the E2 is "OK". I think that the other Estrogen's (oE <-just made that up) are metabolites of E2 and that the source is E2. So if E2 production rates are high, but metabolization is also high, then it seems obvious to me to need to reduce the fuel, E2, that drives the production of oE. I look forward to others busting this idea.

The elevated oE can inhibit libido and the HPTA.

The oE pressure can increase SHBG as does E2. Increased SHBG can explain the low FT or bioT.

Add AI and E2 production goes down, leading to less oE+E2 effects.

Why would the body be metabolizing E2 in an unusual rate/way? Hard to tell, but perhaps it is trying to get cope with higher E2 production rates. Driven by higher BF or higher levels of aromatase?

THANK YOU
Thats what I have been saying all along that even though everything is in check the estrogen metabolites could be symptoms of elevated e2 which goes undiscovered..and this explains my case to the T. Its not the e2 but its bad estrogen metabolites that may also be able to lock into receptors as well as cause the same problem. unless there is a reason that one is converting to more estrone then estrodial (hcg, dhea feeding these pathways with altered estrogen metabolism) . How many drs check estrone levels for a male right ?

 

[JanSz]

I know that the total estrogens test is generally viewed here as useless. However, I continue to see test results that show pretty low E2 numbers (range from say 4-25), but total E numbers ranging from 130-160. (there was one test that was <50, but all others have been high).

The total estrogens number was high before TRT, and E2 wasn't measured before. bioavailable and Free T continue to be low, probably because of high SHBG.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Do not trust everyting that is written.

Each and every kind of estrogen is important.

When E2 high, I use AI, but do not have to at this time.
when other E's are high I use
DualAction from LEF 6pills
TMG from LEF 2 pills

within 6 months got my TotalE and estrone from above high range to within range.
In the mean time my E2 was untouched.
----------------------
Hardasnails just posted link to nice article:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/68725-excellent-article-estrogen.html

Invalid Link Removed

 

[pmgamer18]

I can't see this my E2 was dam high and my total E's were high then my E2 was down and total E's were still high then I found out Total E is a women's test. Now just keeping my E2 down that other estrogen I looked into testing there were none for men. So what test are you baseing this on. You see you have no way to tell if your other E's are high you can mesure them. You can have blood drawn and send it to a lab that tests it as if it was a womens blood.

Do not trust everyting that is written.

Each and every kind of estrogen is important.

When E2 high, I use AI, but do not have to at this time.
when other E's are high I use
DualAction from LEF 6pills
TMG from LEF 2 pills

within 6 months got my TotalE and estrone from above high range to within range.
In the mean time my E2 was untouched.
----------------------
Hardasnails just posted link to nice article:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/68725-excellent-article-estrogen.html

Invalid Link Removed

 

[pmgamer18]

THANK YOU
Thats what I have been saying all along that even though everything is in check the estrogen metabolites could be symptoms of elevated e2 which goes undiscovered..and this explains my case to the T. Its not the e2 but its bad estrogen metabolites that may also be able to lock into receptors as well as cause the same problem. unless there is a reason that one is converting to more estrone then estrodial (hcg, dhea feeding these pathways with altered estrogen metabolism) . How many drs check estrone levels for a male right ?

And he is right.

 

[pmgamer18]

I stand by what I have been saying E's in women is not the same as E's in men these links are about women come on.

Do not trust everyting that is written.

Each and every kind of estrogen is important.

When E2 high, I use AI, but do not have to at this time.
when other E's are high I use
DualAction from LEF 6pills
TMG from LEF 2 pills

within 6 months got my TotalE and estrone from above high range to within range.
In the mean time my E2 was untouched.
----------------------
Hardasnails just posted link to nice article:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/68725-excellent-article-estrogen.html

Invalid Link Removed

 

[JanSz]

I stand by what I have been saying E's in women is not the same as E's in men these links are about women come on.

I would say estrogens in men and women are exactly the same, they are just at different levels.

Anything that influences estrogen in women will influence estrogen in men the same way.

At Quest or LabCorp there is but one E2 test that is of lesser accuracy and that test should be used for women only (if at all), I would not use it for my wife.
---------------------------
I suggest reading the article Hardasnails posted, specially the part on what to use to regulate estrogens.
I was not able to find DIM mentioned there once, but they mention many other supplements.

I am not a doctor or scientist or researcher.

 

[pmgamer18]

Ok think about this one men make E's from T women make E's from where there Overies not there testis. So it's not the same.

I would say estrogens in men and women are exactly the same, they are just at different levels.

Anything that influences estrogen in women will influence estrogen in men the same way.

At Quest or LabCorp there is but one E2 test that is of lesser accuracy and that test should be used for women only (if at all), I would not use it for my wife.
---------------------------
I suggest reading the article Hardasnails posted, specially the part on what to use to regulate estrogens.
I was not able to find DIM mentioned there once, but they mention many other supplements.

I am not a doctor or scientist or researcher.

 

[jaydee]

I find this all confusing and some do not want to use an AI because the E2 is "OK". I think that the other Estrogen's (oE <-just made that up) are metabolites of E2 and that the source is E2. So if E2 production rates are high, but metabolization is also high, then it seems obvious to me to need to reduce the fuel, E2, that drives the production of oE. I look forward to others busting this idea.

The elevated oE can inhibit libido and the HPTA.

The oE pressure can increase SHBG as does E2. Increased SHBG can explain the low FT or bioT.

Add AI and E2 production goes down, leading to less oE+E2 effects.

Why would the body be metabolizing E2 in an unusual rate/way? Hard to tell, but perhaps it is trying to get cope with higher E2 production rates. Driven by higher BF or higher levels of aromatase?

This sounds good in theory, but most guys on this board who are in that situation say that they feel WORSE when they take an AI.

Also if its a case of bad E metabolites, what do we need to look at if Methylation, Calcium D Glucarate and or DIM have failed and body fat is not an issue? Are there any other ways to reduce these bad E metabolites?

 

[Undone]

This sounds good in theory, but most guys on this board who are in that situation say that they feel WORSE when they take an AI.

Also if its a case of bad E metabolites, what do we need to look at if Methylation, Calcium D Glucarate and or DIM have failed and body fat is not an issue? Are there any other ways to reduce these bad E metabolites?

Exactly what situation are you referring to? My E2 was in the "normal" and I felt terrible. Supplements (Dim and Chrysin) were of little help, if any. Arimidex brought my E2 from 36 to 24. I felt a whole lot better.

I seems like AI's have helped a lot of guys on this board but maybe you are referring to a different situation.

 

[jaydee]

I mean guys with "optimal" E2 ranges between around 10 - 30. Anything above 30 (as a rule) is usually considered too high and an AI would probably work as it did for you.

This was a good thread on the topic:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[plymouth city]

Get TT/FT vs E2 in check, let oE fall were it may.

E3 is a protective estrogen. Will stay within range if E2 is as well.

 

[pmgamer18]

Get TT/FT vs E2 in check, let oE fall were it may.

E3 is a protective estrogen. Will stay within range if E2 is as well.

Yes all you need to do is get Total and Free T up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man. And keep your E2 down between 10 to 30 best at 20 and you should feel good or dam close to it.