So.... I decided to try my hand at a cycle of Primo (50mg/day injections for 3 weeks, 75mg/day for 3 weeks) and have just started the second week. I'm also taking 300mg DIM/day and have Nolvadex arriving today for my PCT. (Absolutely perfect diet with my macros all logged.) I think the DIM is causing crazy water retention though, holy fu*k. (I have done 3 DHEA cycles too, with and without Ephedra, and that was wild... I also test my free T/cortisol/TSH by blood every 2 weeks.)
1- Can I boost the Primo a bit with 10mg/day Nolvadex then run 20mg/day PCT? I don't want to get too crazy as this is my first "real" cycle, but I'm looking for some pretty serious gains here. Hence, no Var or Test stacked on top. (Uhh... those side effects are scary as a chick.) And I just really don't want to f my hormones forever.
2- Will 20mg suffice for PCT since Primo is so mild?
3- Can I use Xpel to help the water retention (that isn't supposed to be caused by Primo, has to be the DIM) and for how long, if so? No show until May/June at the very earliest, if I achieve my goals in this lean gain phase and don't just dirty bulk myself straight to hell. F*ck, this is all confusing and I'm impatient.
Thanks in advance for your help! Clearly, I'm new and on a guinea pig run with this.
There’s a lot to unpack here.
-First, are you injecting primo Enanthate, or something else like acetate? The ester really mattes, because if enanthate it’s going to keep ramping up over a few weeks and take weeks to clear.
-How long do you plan to run this? Both the amount of gear exposure AND duration can be responsible for virilizing sides. Some things will go away some over time to a degree (clit may enlarge permanently but will be smaller when androgens are discontinued, breasts will fill back out some), but things like voice change will be permanent. If you start getting a scratchy throat or voice, your voice is changing actively. If you are using enanthate, you will not be able to stop the drugs immediately, if that is a concern.
-If you are worried about permanent baseline changes like voice, clitoral enlargement, jaw enlargement (to a lesser extent), keeping exposure to 4-6 weeks at a time with 6+ weeks off is a common rule. Compounds are limited and doses need to be SMALL. Women competing in everything over bikini generally are not following those types of protocols and will use more aggressive drugs & protocols. You are probably going to have to accept some changes if you want some serious levels of muscle. Buyer beware; I am not trying to encourage or dissuade you: I support your choice to pursue your goals.
1)-You are injecting 350mg of primo per week. That is a TON for a first cycle; that is an oral primo acetate tab dosage. 100mg/wk would likely cause sides; my wife started getting bad hair growth at something like 66mg/wk and we discontinued it (primo can often be faked with low-dose testosterone & we didn’t have it tested). I recommend cutting your shots down to 1/4 of that dose if using a short ester, or stopping it entirely right now if pinning primo enanthate. Do not add ANYTHING. And Nolvadex only belongs precontest for a bodybuilder to really dry out; it’s counterproductive for muscle-building. Primo will not convert to estrogen anything the way DHEA did for you. If breasts start getting small/flat, you may even consider adding a tiny amount of estradiol cream on them since it’s off-season.
2)-No Nolva for PCT either. I would use some Ayurvedic herbs for healthy estrogen metabolism support if you want. You can use a small amount of Nolva but I wouldn’t; my wife has been cycling for years and never does. I like to focus on taking things that support thyroid, cortisol, blood glucose health, and a few other things. Selenium, Iodine, 7-Keto DHEA, Phosphatidylserine, Berberine, Cinnamon extract, Milk Thistle, NAC, Vitamin E for a month are never bad ideas.
3)-Anabolics can cause water retention and they act much differently in women than men, and it varies woman to woman. Some women retain water even on “dry” compounds like Var. I suspect the huge dose of primo you are taking to be the culprit. Drop the DIM and if it gets worse you know the DIM wasn’t the culprit. Xpel is fine used in moderation, things like some dandelion extract or tea, but you are bandaiding the problem and you need to mind that - it’s not something to use endlessly or in large doses. Keep your sodium lower, get more potassium and keep water intake high. But on androgens, expect some water.
I think you are taking drastically more than you should be for your expressed goals and situation & if it’s Enanthate stop your shots NOW so the dose won’t continue to keep piling up; it will still be active for 3 weeks as is. You can always resume shots in 2-3 weeks at a lower dose if you wish to continue.
