HeavyHitter1
New member
Is Havoc known to cause Gyno?
Havoc!?!?!
- Thread starter HeavyHitter1
- Start date
A_I_Sports_Nutrition
AI Sports Nutrition
It should not but proper support supps and good pct must be used or i am sure it could and would if not done right :cheers:
neoborn
Well-known member
Most Importantly!
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html
SERM + P.C.T Guide
Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:
Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.
1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc
Example Torem Dosing: - Invalid Link Removed
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm
Alternative Torm Dosing:
Week1: Days 1-3: 120mg Torm, Days 4-7: 90 mg Torm
Week2: 60mg Torm
Week3: 60mg Torm
Week4: 30mg Torm
You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board.
Example Nolva Dosing:
Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
Wk2: 20mg everyday
Wk3: 10mg everyday
Wk4: 10mg everyday
I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better
2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe.
3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.
4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol
5. Test Booster - Good reviews or I have used: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).
NON-Rx SERM + P.C.T Guide
1. Non Rx SERM - Post Cycle Support(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended)
2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.
3. AI - Formestane(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.
4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol
5. Test Booster - Good reviews or have used the following: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).
All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.
With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.
Things To Note
1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!
2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT
Invalid Link Removed
3. Gynomastia - >>>Read This!<<< and >>>Invalid Link Removed<<<
4. Real Gynomastia Before & After's:
5. Love your Liver!
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html
SERM + P.C.T Guide
Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:
Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.
1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc
Example Torem Dosing: - Invalid Link Removed
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm
Alternative Torm Dosing:
Week1: Days 1-3: 120mg Torm, Days 4-7: 90 mg Torm
Week2: 60mg Torm
Week3: 60mg Torm
Week4: 30mg Torm
You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board.
Example Nolva Dosing:
Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
Wk2: 20mg everyday
Wk3: 10mg everyday
Wk4: 10mg everyday
I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better
2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe.
3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.
4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol
5. Test Booster - Good reviews or I have used: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).
NON-Rx SERM + P.C.T Guide
1. Non Rx SERM - Post Cycle Support(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended)
2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.
3. AI - Formestane(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.
4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol
5. Test Booster - Good reviews or have used the following: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).
All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.
With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.
Things To Note
1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!
2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT
Invalid Link Removed
3. Gynomastia - >>>Read This!<<< and >>>Invalid Link Removed<<<
4. Real Gynomastia Before & After's:
5. Love your Liver!
HeavyHitter1
New member
Man, Thanks a ton thats alot of help...I ask questions on here and take alot of **** for it becuz people think im to lazy to do research but its really becuz I want advice from people that have done it or know people that have done it...and I can get advice from the websites but usually its just to sell the product so you dont get answers to specific questions.
RenegadeRows
Well-known member
While the dudes are right, Havoc has been shown to be an anti-estrogen and reduce gyno ... I have experienced flare ups on high doses, as well as my brothers have as well. Don't forget, despite all the anecdotal feedback, this is still a steroid and there is a risk for it.