Going Beyond Natural Gains

[saderboy80]

Hey guys, I just wanted to start this thread about your natural or enhanced limit.

Of course there isn’t any research out there to figure out the equation and the number of variables is very high.


So the question is 1. How big can you get naturally?
2. How big can you get with (gear, SARMS, GH, insulin and peptides) I literally mean everything, so if I missed something please and it to the list.


Yes, this question is not realistic at all, given the sheer number of variables included.m


What do you guys think is obtainable (theoretically speaking) if there would not be any side effects.

Like I wonder how big Ronnie could have gotten!
Like could Ronnie or Pauli Dellit got up to 500lbs.


Even if someone could do this as a experiment through an AI computer and see that outcomes!!

 

[Nac]

For guys with all the most ideal genetics, the No1 limiting factor will be the ability to eat enough food. Its the same issue that comes up all the time in interviews with Pros. These guys are often force feeding as it is.

 

[saderboy80]

For guys with all the most ideal genetics, the No1 limiting factor will be the ability to eat enough food. Its the same issue that comes up all the time in interviews with Pros. These guys are often force feeding as it is.

Yeah I’ve heard guys say it’s eating as a chore and when they were getting close to a competition, they actually enjoy eating less word.

 

[Mathb33]

Genetic does not matter until you reach a certain level which not many people can claim they reached. I have absolutely horrible genetics, I was skinny my whole life, small wrists , small neck , tiny legs , 5 foot 10 160 lbs my whole life. I’m been on gear for exactly 2 years now no less no more and look at my profile picture. I’ve came a long long way and I’m far from done. Sure at one point you can be limited by genetics and you just won’t be Ronnie Coleman but there’s a whole physique you can build before claiming that. Food, consistency and obsession is where 99% of people fail.

 

[saderboy80]

Genetic does not matter until you reach a certain level which not many people can claim they reached. I have absolutely horrible genetics, I was skinny my whole life, small wrists , small neck , tiny legs , 5 foot 10 160 lbs my whole life. I’m been on gear for exactly 2 years now no less no more and look at my profile picture. I’ve came a long long way and I’m far from done. Sure at one point you can be limited by genetics and you just won’t be Ronnie Coleman but there’s a whole physique you can build before claiming that. Food, consistency and obsession is where 99% of people fail.

Congratulations on the transformation man!

Yeh that all makes sense. I’d love to see a 400lbs bodybuilder

 

[Mathb33]

Congratulations on the transformation man!

Yeh that all makes sense. I’d love to see a 400lbs bodybuilder

I wonder if it would be sexy or horrible lol

 

[bigthug]

Congratulations on the transformation man!

Yeh that all makes sense. I’d love to see a 400lbs bodybuilder

Greg Kovacs not asthetic but 400 plus pounds in the off season non the less

 

[KvanH]

Genetic does not matter until you reach a certain level which not many people can claim they reached. I have absolutely horrible genetics, I was skinny my whole life, small wrists , small neck , tiny legs , 5 foot 10 160 lbs my whole life. I’m been on gear for exactly 2 years now no less no more and look at my profile picture. I’ve came a long long way and I’m far from done. Sure at one point you can be limited by genetics and you just won’t be Ronnie Coleman but there’s a whole physique you can build before claiming that. Food, consistency and obsession is where 99% of people fail.

Out of curiosity, how much do you weight now if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Mathb33]

Out of curiosity, how much do you weight now if you don't mind me asking?

On that picture my coach and I were just 2 weeks post a little clean out cut and according to my dexa scan 190 9.4% BF. I was sitting at 215 14-15% before that cut

 

[Whisky]

Like you highlight there are a load of variables. I think the genetic limit for natural lifters is more varied (as guys can look like they are juiced to the gills whilst natural if they have great genetics whereas others don’t look like they lift at all).

gear is a bit of a leveller as I believe anyone can look like they lift and look a bit jacked with decent consistency, nutrition, training and proper gear. Obviously still a big difference between that and pro though.

my genetics are also pretty poor, I struggled like mad to gain muscle without gaining a lot of fat (even then muscle gain was slow) regardless of really dialled in nutrition, gear changes that for sure.

I agree with the comments above about how big being limited by food. I’m really struggling to eat enough to get past 230 at the moment as adrol has killed my appetite. The proper big boys have to consume twice what I am just to maintain. I recall dave crossland pushing to 400lbs for a documentary and that looked crazy hard.

I think at that size it’s the impact on your organs that starts to become an issue. Blood pressure, water retention, just the sheer impact on liver, kidneys, joints etc makes me think that for most people their body couldn’t take it and would start to operate too sub optimally to enable more weight gain.

 

[KvanH]

On that picture my coach and I were just 2 weeks post a little clean out cut and according to my dexa scan 190 9.4% BF. I was sitting at 215 14-15% before that cut

So that would be somewhere around 40+ lbs of solid muscle made from being 160 lbs skinny kid. Not bad!!

 

[Mathb33]

So that would be somewhere around 40+ lbs of solid muscle made from being 160 lbs skinny kid. Not bad!!

30 to be exact. I started off extremely lean at 160

 

[KvanH]

30 to be exact. I started off extremely lean at 160

Ok Well still, quite a transformation.

 

[CroLifter]

I wonder if it would be sexy or horrible lol

Just sth to note...probably you just expressed yourself in a wrong way, but i can never consider another man sexy...impressive physique yes, but not sexy.

400lbs would be a pure meat ball, hell even 300lbs is. @saderboy80 why aim for a physique that is totally non-functional.


@Whisky i was building muscle way easier and faster in my teens than early 20s... i remember when i was 16, 17 the pumps i usd to get in the gym rivaled those that i get now on mk677 and a light dose of test, like up to 250mg a week. I was at my biggest at 19 and hit a wall in early 20s could no longer maintain the amount of mass for some reason.

So i think that people who dont lift through their teens miss out on the kind of gains natty that otherwise light cycle would deliver.

I would compare my teen gains to being on roughly 200mg of test a week or 100 test and mk677

 

[Mathb33]

Just sth to note...probably you just expressed yourself in a wrong way, but i can never consider another man sexy...impressive physique yes, but not sexy.

400lbs would be a pure meat ball, hell even 300lbs is. @saderboy80 why aim for a physique that is totally non-functional.

I think you’re sexy. No homo

 

[bigthug]

I think you’re sexy. No homo

Do you site enhance those delts no offence meant

 

[Whisky]

Just sth to note...probably you just expressed yourself in a wrong way, but i can never consider another man sexy...impressive physique yes, but not sexy.

400lbs would be a pure meat ball, hell even 300lbs is. @saderboy80 why aim for a physique that is totally non-functional.


@Whisky i was building muscle way easier and faster in my teens than early 20s... i remember when i was 16, 17 the pumps i usd to get in the gym rivaled those that i get now on mk677 and a light dose of test, like up to 250mg a week. I was at my biggest at 19 and hit a wall in early 20s could no longer maintain the amount of mass for some reason.

So i think that people who dont lift through their teens miss out on the kind of gains natty that otherwise light cycle would deliver.

I would compare my teen gains to being on roughly 200mg of test a week or 100 test and mk677

I spent my teens and 20s very very overweight so certainly that would fit with me - gaining when starting this whole journey in my early 30s has been extremely hard.....

 

[Mathb33]

Do you site enhance those delts no offence meant

No problem. What do you mean by site enhance?

 

[CroLifter]

No problem. What do you mean by site enhance?

He prolly means site enhancement oil.

As far as i know you, you wouldnt do it. For some people delts simply respond to gear, i know mine do, and yours coupled with low bodyfat look like they are overpowering your arms.

 

[KvanH]

He prolly means site enhancement oil.

As far as i know you, you wouldnt do it. For some people delts simply respond to gear, i know mine do, and yours coupled with low bodyfat look like they are overpowering your arms.

And surprisingly many don't know how to flex posterior delts. It makes a big difference when flexing if you know how to do it.

 

[Whisky]

He prolly means site enhancement oil.

As far as i know you, you wouldnt do it. For some people delts simply respond to gear, i know mine do, and yours coupled with low bodyfat look like they are overpowering your arms.

yeah I assumed he meant synth.

I’ve heard (no idea if it’s true) that you get some site enhancement in areas you pin regularly through the build up of scar tissue. The podcast I heard out on isn’t exactly noted for its quality content though

 

[Mathb33]

He prolly means site enhancement oil.

As far as i know you, you wouldnt do it. For some people delts simply respond to gear, i know mine do, and yours coupled with low bodyfat look like they are overpowering your arms.

Enhancing as in synthol???? Jesus no lol never... and if he means injecting my gear there to enhance the spot I don’t believe this works at all except for the build up of scar tissue which may help the look slightly.Anyways thanks for pointing that out lol didn’t réalise he meant synthol...

 

[KvanH]

yeah I assumed he meant synth.

I’ve heard (no idea if it’s true) that you get some site enhancement in areas you pin regularly through the build up of scar tissue. The podcast I heard out on isn’t exactly noted for its quality content though

Is it possible to have good looking end result with synthol? I've only seen the freaks..

 

[bigthug]

It could also be mediphorm witch is a water based product but okay

 

[Mathb33]

It could also be mediphorm witch is a water based product but okay

No really nothing at all brother. And no offense was taken don’t worry it’s a compliment haha. I just think I have a very good way of organizing my workout plans throughout the months to target my weakness until they end up a strong point and then I focus on another part. As silly as it sounds I don’t think a full split working everything equality is optimal unless you’re very well balanced... everyone’s got weaknesses and their split should be built around it until it’s fixed and then move on. Which I did the last 6 months+ for my rear self who sucked and now I have that 3D look

 

[bigthug]

Is it possible to have good looking end result with synthol? I've only seen the freaks..

Yes a lot of pros use seos to bring up lagging bodyparts

 

[CroLifter]

Enhancing as in synthol???? Jesus no lol never... and if he means injecting my gear there to enhance the spot I don’t believe this works at all except for the build up of scar tissue which may help the look slightly.Anyways thanks for pointing that out lol didn’t réalise he meant synthol...

Perhaps growth factors like mgf, or perhaps esterless aas or injectable sarms could do it. But with esterified aas effects are systemic.

 

[saderboy80]

Just sth to note...probably you just expressed yourself in a wrong way, but i can never consider another man sexy...impressive physique yes, but not sexy.

400lbs would be a pure meat ball, hell even 300lbs is. @saderboy80 why aim for a physique that is totally non-functional.


@Whisky i was building muscle way easier and faster in my teens than early 20s... i remember when i was 16, 17 the pumps i usd to get in the gym rivaled those that i get now on mk677 and a light dose of test, like up to 250mg a week. I was at my biggest at 19 and hit a wall in early 20s could no longer maintain the amount of mass for some reason.

So i think that people who dont lift through their teens miss out on the kind of gains natty that otherwise light cycle would deliver.

I would compare my teen gains to being on roughly 200mg of test a week or 100 test and mk677

Oh know I don’t plan on doing this!! I just was interested in people’s thoughts on the matter.

 

[saderboy80]

Like you highlight there are a load of variables. I think the genetic limit for natural lifters is more varied (as guys can look like they are juiced to the gills whilst natural if they have great genetics whereas others don’t look like they lift at all).

gear is a bit of a leveller as I believe anyone can look like they lift and look a bit jacked with decent consistency, nutrition, training and proper gear. Obviously still a big difference between that and pro though.

my genetics are also pretty poor, I struggled like mad to gain muscle without gaining a lot of fat (even then muscle gain was slow) regardless of really dialled in nutrition, gear changes that for sure.

I agree with the comments above about how big being limited by food. I’m really struggling to eat enough to get past 230 at the moment as adrol has killed my appetite. The proper big boys have to consume twice what I am just to maintain. I recall dave crossland pushing to 400lbs for a documentary and that looked crazy hard.

I think at that size it’s the impact on your organs that starts to become an issue. Blood pressure, water retention, just the sheer impact on liver, kidneys, joints etc makes me think that for most people their body couldn’t take it and would start to operate too sub optimally to enable more weight gain.

Your organs would be screaming to halt!!