Formestane & Impact Ultra

Alpha Dog

Alpha Dog

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Impact Ultra does seem to be a unique product. Given the mix of Phosphatidylserine and acetate ester versions of 7alpha-Hydroxy-DHEA and 7beta-Hydroxy-DHEA, it should be great for keeping corisol in check PCT. However, my question is in regards to the inclusion of formestane for estrogen control. The studies I have read (and Bobo has repeatedly expressed on this board) indicate that the estrogen suppression potential of formestane disappears after about three weeks, the bioavailability of the injectible is only about 25%, and due to its conversion to 4-OHT it is also mildly suppressive. It does have the added benefit of increasing natural IGF-1 but even then it may be bound to the IGFBP3 protein rendering it inactive.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15640&highlight=formestane

I do notice ALRI also has a more bioavailable verion of 6-OXO. So, why the inclusion of formestane rather than 6-OXO in Impact Ultra? What am I missing and why should we be using formestane for PCT rather than another AI?
 
ryansm

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I have been wondering the same thing myself, just too lazy to post the question, thanks Bow.
 

Author L. Rea

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The bioavailability of an injected substance is equal to its free weight in regard to androstene analogs. In the case of fomestane it would be the total dosage minus the ester weight (an acetate in this case). It seems that the oral bioavailability was mistaken for the parental in this thread but common I have noted.

Many substances convert to banned substances in the body. When we made Aromax our intent was to offer an option. We discontinued it due to its conversion to oxo-estrones and some of the banned metabolites.

Though there is some conversion potential to OH-Testosterone realized from formestane, there has been some good studies supporting that it aids HPTA function for up to 22 weeks.

So the point was options.
 

size

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To me, Ultra Impact seems like a product one would choose to use during the last few weeks of an "on" period and the first week of the "off" period. This would enable one to get estrogen and cortisol under control for a smooth and prompt recovery.


ALR,
I find phosphatidylserine to be very interesting compound. While I believe it is an effective aid for cortisol manipulation, I know there are some questions about it. Primarily, the argument that soy based PS does not exhibit the same effects as bovine PS.

Some info:
"PS was originally manufactured from the brains of cows, and all the studies described here used this form. However, because animal brain cells can harbor viruses, that form is no longer available. Most PS today is made from soybeans or other plant sources.
There are reasons to expect that plant-source PS should function very similarly to PS made from cows' brains, and some animal studies suggest that it is indeed effective. However, in preliminary human trials, soy-based PS and cabbage-based PS failed to prove beneficial. The bottom line: at present, we do not know whether modern plant-source PS is actually effective."
Study against PS:
7. Gindin J, et al. The effect of plant phosphatidylserine on age-associated memory impairment and mood in the functioning elderly. Rehovot, Israel. Geriatric Institute for Education and Research and Dept. of Geriatrics, Kaplan Hospital, 1995.

then we have this is support of soy PS:

"Weak evidence suggests that PS might decrease the release of the hormone cortisol after intense exercise.34 Among its many effects, cortisol acts to break down muscle tissue exactly the opposite of the effect desired by a strength athlete or bodybuilder. This double-blind, placebo-controlled study on 11 intensely trained athletes found that 800 mg of PS taken daily reduced the cortisol rise by 20% as compared with placebo.35 Another small study on 9 nonathletic males found that daily doses of 400 and 800 mg of PS reduced cortisol levels after exercise by 16% and 30%, respectively.36 Another study found that phosphatidylserine could relieve some overtraining symptoms, including muscle soreness, possibly due to effects on cortisol.37,39"

Studies:
35. Fahey TD, Pearl M. Hormonal effects of phosphatidylserine during 2 weeks of intense training. Abstract presented at: National Meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine;June, 1998; Orlando, Fla
36. Monteleone P, Maj M, Beinat L, et al. Blunting by chronic phosphatidylserine administration of the stress-induced activation of the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis in healthy men. Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1992;42:385-388.
37. Monteleone P, Maj M, Beinat L, et al. Blunting by chronic phosphatidylserine administration of the stress-induced activation of the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis in healthy men. Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1992;42:385-388.
38. Fahey TD, Pearl M. The hormonal and perceptive effects of phosphatidylserine administration during two weeks of resistive exercise-induced overtraining. Biol Sport. 1998;15:135-144.
39. Monteleone P, Beinat L, Tanzillo C, et al. Effects of phosphatidylserine on the neuroendocrine response to physical stress in humans. Neuroendocrinology. 1990;52:243-248.



So my opinion is take PS since it seems studies go both ways. It appears from studies 35-39 that they support the benefits of PS in athletes. Thoughts?
 
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Author L. Rea

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One thing that comes to light here is the lacking of studies seeking the Action/Reaction Factors in relation to many compounds. The "why" is so often lacking.

In studies done with clients over the years I had noted that PS did indeed decrease systemic cortisol in "most" athletes. Those that did not respond had 40% or lower levels of DHEA and DHEA(s). In these non-responding athletes the additon of supplemental DHEA resulted in decreased systemic cortisol but NOT over a prolonged period. When 7-oxo-DHEA was used the results were about the same as other athletes who did respond fully. The reason is pretty easy to explain. The enzymic conversion of 7-oxo-DHEA to the far more effective 7-hydroxy-DHEA analogs resulted in normalization of the 11-hydroxy enzymes responsible for normal cortisol control. When regular supplemental DHEA sulfate was used the enzyme ran out, and when no DHEA was used the enzyme was by-passing the normal control pathways.

Gee, any guess as to why we used the 7-hydroxy-DHEA analogs with the PS in IMPACT Ultra?
 
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