VegMed
New member
What estrogen sides were you experiencing? I feel some serious bloat myself . Like An uncomfortable amount. All I got is a serm, but apparently I can’t use that? Will it work at all?
FORMERON 2024
- Thread starter brundel
- Start date
thescience
Well-known member
i successfully countered the madness with exemestane.. before that i had insane hunger, boner complications, muscle softness, tiredness, moods. a serm works great, i actually feel a serm would be more ideal to potentially stimulate test from dhea as a substrate because all estrogen sides were shut down in advance and serms appear to be preferred means of pct, but dhea has other value such as anti-lethargy and joint benefits for any fomulation. there may be something unique about dhea converting more into test in the presence of the atriplex or 20 beta idk.
the issue with using a serm is that it also likely inhibits those other active ingredients in this product that you want to work from connecting with the estrogen receptor.
just curious if you know what your total/free test is
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brundel
Board Sponsor
I think it would be awesome
brundel
Board Sponsor
I think obviously testosterone would be always first choice but if this isnt an option then this is a great alternative because you get both the guaranteed increase in testosterone and you get the anabolism and antiestrogenic effects as well.
brundel
Board Sponsor
no. Just had black friday less than 30 days ago. Probably wont have any significant sales until after feb.
Shadowblaze
Member
I've been thinking of treating myself for a 16 week run with both. Any updates on shipping to Canada? One of my friends bought formeron right after it came our and had some trouble.
LucasBagoDoce
Member
The pumps on this thing are insane lol
About a week in and the shirts don’t fit when I’m working out
About a week in and the shirts don’t fit when I’m working out
brundel
Board Sponsor
UPS seems to be getting through. We have shifted all out packs to UPS for canada. Havnt had any issues except one.
brundel
Board Sponsor
And the magic starts.
botk1161
Active member
FYI, The Canada mail strike is over as a few days ago. Just got my formeron from Black Friday.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Finally...
JAmesprice
New member
just finished with first bottle and on to the second. I love this product. Best topical application ever. Almost scary how fast it dries with no residue and no smell. Truly a perfect compliment to TRT. I do have issues with estrogen so I take 1 cap Letrone in PM and feel like i achieved hormonal balance. I haven’t felt this good since Var. The results have been close to Var as well. @brundel thank you and your team for delivering with this one. I’m on this 4Life if you keep in stock.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Thanks brother!
I really worked hard on this. It took 10 years to develop something that was => OG formeron.
There just were not the right options. But I think the Topical Ecdysteroids really are impressive.
I dont think Ive experienced anything else natural thats as powerful as this combination. Easily more powerful than anything else we carry and has wildly different MOA than Androgin, Follidrone or Vector.
I appreciate the review, the more people are able to see this stuffs potential the better!
AknowledgeMe
Member
How would Enclomiphene stack with it? 1 bottle last entire month? Thanks
kid amnesiac
Member
@ 7 pumps a day mine lasted approx 24 days I think
brundel
Board Sponsor
Enclomiphene is a SERM so not ideal as it would potentially block the estrogen receptors.
At the end of the day I would need to look more deeply into which receptors are involved with both. It might not be an issue or it might render the ecdysteroids inert.
brundel
Board Sponsor
There is likely some variability with regards to overall volume. This is because of bubbles in the product and the volume taken up by the pump stem etc. WE fill it to the absolute limit that we can. 7 pumps will be more than 8ml though so you will get less than 30 days.
johnl1800
Member
Not trying to be a dick but I asked about this on page 2 and got a somewhat more encouraging answer...
brundel
Board Sponsor
I went back and changed my reply thanks for pointing it out. I must not have been thinking about the association of the edcysteroids and estrogen receptors.
Ill dig into it more and see if I cant determine if enclom will have a negative impact.
For now I would approach with the knowledge that it may or may not block the ecdysteroids. Many things like ecdysteroids bind to orphan receptors but I believe ecdysterone binds to the erb.
I dont know which receptors exactly enclom binds to or if its a pan antagonist. Someone else might chime in if they know or Ill try to find out later.
Abstract
Scope: The phytoectysteroid ecdysterone (Ecdy) was reported to stimulate protein synthesis and enhance physical performance. The aim of this study was to investigate underlying molecular mechanisms particularly the role of ER beta (ERβ).
Results: In male rats, Ecdy treatment increased muscle fiber size, serum IGF-1 increased, and corticosteron and 17β-estradiol (E2) decreased. In differentiated C2C12 myoblastoma cells, treatment with Ecdy, dihydrotestosterone, IGF-1 but also E2 results in hypertrophy. Hypertrophy induced by E2 and Ecdy could be antagonized with an antiestrogen but not by an antiandrogen. In HEK293 cells transfected with ER alpha (ERα) or ERβ, Ecdy treatment transactivated a reporter gene. To elucidate the role of ERβ in Ecdy-mediated muscle hypertrophy, C2C12 myotubes were treated with ERα (ALPHA) and ERβ (BETA) selective ligands. Ecdy and BETA treatment but not ALPHA induced hypertrophy. The effect of Ecdy, E2, and BETA could be antagonized by an ERβ-selective antagonist (ANTIBETA). In summary, our results indicate that ERβ is involved in the mediation of the anabolic activity of the Ecdy.
thescience
Well-known member
hmmm maybe i can try a formeron/enclo combo out next
johnl1800
Member
I just finished my first bottle of Formeron and was taking enclomiphene at the time. Given brundels's latest comments on it I'll drop the enclomiphene for now and just run the next three bottles of Formeron solo.
For what it's worth I haven't changed my workout routine at all and didn't go on any holiday binge eating but my weight has been up a bit anyway. The only real change was the addition of the Formeron.
thescience
Well-known member
yeah i mean if you havent seen the strength/size increases or pumps that others are reporting, then maybe the enclo was halting your progress
Wokfighter
New member
Any one knows where to buy formeron with the UK retailers?
Atlas1970
New member
Powermyself have it
Wokfighter
New member
Okay thanks!
BigGame84
Well-known member
Don't take with enclo. I was for the first 2 weeks and then I stopped. I feel like I am making better progress without the enclo. Just save it for whenever you're done with the Formeron.
johnl1800
Member
It was only a month and since the Formeron is new I have no idea what, if any, effect the enclomiphene could potentially be having on it.
That being said I didn't want to spend the next three months spinning my wheels not getting what I potentially would or could have otherwise been getting out of the Formeron if I wasn't also on the enclomiphene.
Timing wise since I actually just finished a bottle of enclomiphene this was a good point to take a break from it anyway so I'll just pick it back up again after I finish up with the Formeron.
Bigbri01
Member
Have you been using the enclo as a stand alone test booster, or as a pct?
johnl1800
Member
Stand alone test booster. My test levels aren't what they used to be but aren't low enough to go on TRT. When I'm on the enclomiphene I clearly feel better across the board.
Bigbri01
Member
Yeah I've heard of others using it for trt. Have you had bloods done while taking it to show raised t levels?
johnl1800
Member
I haven't done bloodwork to confirm what it's done to my test levels. I know that going by "feel" isn't scientific or necessarily the best way to go about it but I can definitely say that I can tell a big difference when I'm on compared to when I'm off.
botk1161
Active member
All things the same 20 days in and getting bloated and smooth on formeron. Feel better with the DHEA though. Going to have to increase my TRT AI (which I don't want to do) or stop taking formeron or use maybe a 1/4 or 1/2 dose which I don't really want to do either. I was hoping this product would allow me to drop my TRT AI as I thought this was going to primarily be an AI in the spirit of OG Formeron (which was a very potent AI at even 1/2 dose) and not something I need to add an AI too. I am definitely estrogen sensitive. I am glad others are enjoying the new version.
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JAmesprice
New member
Adding 1 cap of Letrone and stinging nettle extract helped address this for me. Probably could have experimented with one or the other to see if both were actually needed but wanted to resolve it fast and it did.
Ziyo
Member
botk1161
Active member
Did not notice any strength gains (I am a powerlifter). I am up a couple of pounds, but its seems to be just bloaty water.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Im surprised. Generally an increase in water retention leads to significant strength gains. Part of why wet aas give you so much power. Like anadrol or dbol or deca etc. Even high doses of test.
We can of course increase the dose of ai
Im not surprised you are experiencing estro sides though. I know this is a possibility considering the major boost in test levels and the estrogen agonists but ive never heard of ecdysterones causing these sides. Dhea...definitely can.
div1872
Member
For me definitely yes
johnl1800
Member
I was already on enclomiphene when I started my first bottle of Formeron. I hadn't noticed any side effects at that time. After reading the above I stopped using the Formeron until I finished the bottle of enclomiphene that I had been using.
I started up on the Formeron on Friday. By Saturday evening I had broken out in horrific and extremely itchy hives on my chest and arms. My forearms in particular, which I had been using to apply the Formeron, were brutal. I didn't think to take a picture at the time but found this online which looks fairly close to what I experienced. My forearms in particular were probably 3x worse than what you see in this picture:
Needless to say I immediately stopped the Formeron. By Sunday morning it had improved slightly and by Monday morning it was probably 95% better. My first thought when things flared up was that if it didn't improve, or worsened over the course of the week, that it was coincidental and probably had nothing to do with the Formeron and figured that I would try it again in a few weeks.
However the fact that it appeared so suddenly (particularly on the forearms) when the only thing that changed was the addition of the Formeron and the fact that it subsided just as quickly when I stopped using it makes it likely that I had some kind of allergic reaction.
Now since I experienced none of this when I was using Formeron while on enclomiphene means that it's very possible that the enclomiphene was in fact blocking the edcysteroids and it definitely appears that I'm allergic to something in the product. I was seriously considering trying it while on and then later on while off the enclomiphene to see what happens but I'm not all that enthused to go through another 48 hours of severe itching and hives again just out of curiosity.
This sucks of course because I had been looking forward to this product but unfortunately it appears as if it just doesn't agree with me so I'll probably just give the three remaining bottles that I have to one of my friends.
keemteam
New member
Chiming in on the new product- got a presale bottle- I am coming off of 6-7 years of miserable, life changing medical conditions that saw me at my weakest- nothing I did was helping- I certainly had lost the mind muscle connection- I could hardly flex my bicep muscles -i tried- just almost no contraction, no density- 2 weeks into the formeron and I actual "feel muscular". Haven't felt this way in a long while, its hard to explain the exact feeling but it has been worth every penny just for that lone- when I workout now I actual feel somewhat strong again even though the numbers aren't there the effort has improved dramatically- Thanks BLR
Julianbee
New member
I think it could use a little more. As others have mentioned above, I just added a cap of letrone per day.
thescience
Well-known member
i rub all kinds of ingredients in my arms. i cant say that ive had hives, but definitely some kind of dermititus with some ingredients. anyway, in my experience, an ingredient doesnt irrititate anything until it does, in some cases days or weeks later
BigSWOLE25
Member
I am a bottle and a half in. Scale is up a 3 pounds pounds. No boost in libido or strength. I did add a cap of letrone. I felt watery and bloated.
BigSWOLE25
Member
Yes
thescience
Well-known member
id buy it, but you know dhea may be what was solely responsible for tripling my free test levels. im going to get a test soon to find out after ive been off of it long enough; labcorp is $100 for free and total test right now. personally though i feel like a micronized dhea is widely available and cheaper than dirt if anyone wants to add the right amount, but i dont know all the mechanics behind the formula; for example, i saw one aromatase inhibitor that raised dht by 192%, which is is pretty awesome and someone could potentially get that boost without getting too dry with the dhea. if the magic of the formula lies in something like that, then the dhea will stay no matter what. i can confirm that 20mg a day is a very powerful neurostimulant, and i havent fully explored the benefits ive experienced from it.I also felt phenomenal energy-wise for the few days i was on formeron with enclomiphine and an anti estrogen
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