First TRT bloods

[Stantheman85]

Hi all,

I am 28m 6’4” 225lb ~14-15% bf. I am generally pretty lean never been 15%+bf but also never below 10%. Work out 4-5 times per week PPL protocol. Eat 80/20 clean for the most part, high fat diet- my recent staples have been avocados, crockpot oats with 2 sticks of butter, sausage.

Currently on trt dose of 200mg cyp per week(100mg e3.5d) + 800mg hcg. Got my first (trough) bloods back, which were taken at 10:30am on a Thursday. I started TRT on 6/17. I inject Friday morning and Monday evening, FYI.

Total test 1386; 264-916

Free test 26.0; 9.3-26.5

E2, sensitive 124.5; 8.0-35.0

I can post more if needed, but all else looked normal for the most part. Liver enzymes and prolactin were a little high. T4 was on the lower end.

My doctor is recommending that I start taking 1mg of anastrozole (0.5 2x weekly) and keep everything else the same.

My long-term goal of trt is to avoid taking AI, but selfishly, I want to take as prescribed for another 6-8 weeks before I dial in my dose with no AI (probably start at 140mg per week and go from there). I’m almost at the 8 week mark (started 6/17) of my TRT journey. Gym wise, my weight is up 12 lbs in the last 4 weeks and strength has gradually improved on a weekly basis.

My e2 is obviously 4x the normal range and needs to get addressed. Side effects come and go, and have seemed to normalize a bit in the last 2 weeks. They include mood swings/irritability, some fatigue (been supplementing w/ 400mg caffeine to offset) and slight water retention/swollen ankles.

Since I’m wanting to continue my mini blast, I’m thinking it might be worth trying 0.5mg with my next two shots (Friday morning, Monday evening) to see how I feel. I’ve read that I could go in for another blood test in 2 weeks to see my new e2 baseline, is that accurate? Not a huge fan of AIs as I’ve taken with a clomid protocol in the past, but want to reap the benefits of my current testosterone levels.

Any other recommendations/suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[bad rad]

Two options to address the high E2. Lower the dose or add an AI. I don't like AIs either but that's a lot of E2. .5mg with each injection will lower your E2 conversion but will also elevate your total Test and DHT since it prevents it from converting. The body shuttles the extra T down other pathways.

 

[Stantheman85]

Two options to address the high E2. Lower the dose or add an AI. I don't like AIs either but that's a lot of E2. .5mg with each injection will lower your E2 conversion but will also elevate your total Test and DHT since it prevents it from converting. The body shuttles the extra T down other pathways.

Appreciate the reply! I wasn’t expect my e2 to be so high because I don’t have terrible sides, they are very manageable. I’m thinking the hcg has something to do with the over the top number. Regardless I have to figure it out as hcg is staying in the picture for at least 5+ more years.

Would you recommend taking an AI and reducing my dose at the same time? If at all possible, I would prefer to be at .25 - .5 AI per week and not 1mg. I now see why most people say it takes about a year to get their trt dialed in -_-

I plan on pinning in the next 30 minutes so I guess for now I’ll go with 100mg tc and .5 AI and see how I feel over the weekend.

 

[bad rad]

I'd only change one thing at a time. Hcg is there to top off the tank per se once you dial in your Test only protocol. It's problematic for me but also boosts my libido better than TRT doses do but my E2 goes up a lot too. I do best on daily doses of 20mg using insulin syringes.

 

[Stantheman85]

What were your bloods like on 20mg daily? subq? I may have to consider that. I would rather control e2 without AI. How long did you do it or are you still on it? I plan on staying on hcg for at least 5 years, which would be 1,826 pins versus 520 pin, but who’s counting :$ sorry one more question, have you ever used DIM to control e2?

I am currently using 29g 1/2 insulin IM. Couldn’t believe how much I was wasting with a 25/27g.

Btw, took .5 anastrozole with my pin, feel 10x better. Had some stomach issues this afternoon but nothing major.

I appreciate your feedback. I had too many thoughts going through my head trying to decide what to do.

 

[bad rad]

I've been doing shallow IM for 20mg/daily for years now but many only need 10mg/day. I switched back to less injections and my E2 went crazy again. This protocol keeps me in the 700s with solid E2 control and no need for an AI. Takes about 2 minutes a day.

I used DIM with this protocol and it cut my E2 in half. 200mg DIM daily.

 

[Stantheman85]

Definitely going to give this a shot and go for labs in another 6 weeks. Although I’m a bit torn between SQ or IM.P

Given my high e2, should I continue to take an AI for the next week or so when I start daily injections? My next injection is Monday evening so I assume that’s when I want to start my daily injections- I would injection Monday morning.

 

[bad rad]

I would start Sunday and start with 10mg daily. I'm unusual that it takes 20mg to bring my serum levels into range. Don't take an AI since the daily injections prevent excess E2 conversion and maintain a better ratio of T:E2. I do better with IM using daily but most are fine with SQ.

 

[Stantheman85]

Question for you- Do you remember how long the transition phase is?

 

[bad rad]

It depends on the person but 4 weeks is when testosterone levels start getting very stable. They tend to slowly rise before that. Based off your blood work I'd bet your serum levels are above 700 on 10mg daily. E2 takes a little longer and you should expect to get an accurate picture at 8 weeks.

 

[Stantheman85]

Got it thnx. My next appt is December so I’ll go in for an 8 week blood draw to see where I’m at. I’m not incorporating DIM or humanofort yet. I’m somewhere between 10-12mg daily. Excited about the lifestyle change.

Have you blasted on dailies before? Crazy to think that 250-300mg per week is probably a good starting point.

 

[bad rad]

I use 400mg Humanofort daily and it helps a lot with joint pain. No solid explanation why it's so effective.

I blasted with 40mg daily and it was great. Felt like I was on a much higher dose and changes came weekly.

 

[Stantheman85]

Did you need an AI or just use DIM during your blast? I may try humanofort at 200mg/day and see how I feel after the bottle. I see a 2 month supply on amazon. Quite pricey.

 

[bad rad]

I used .25mg twice weekly Arimidex since I have a huge supply. After seeing how well I responded with DIM I think it would work too.

Nutrisync is much cheaper and works well.

 

[Stantheman85]

I may have to buy a bottle to see how I respond to it. Any issues to start with 200mg/day? Don’t want to buy a $50 supplement to underdose and not experience the full benefit.

Do you have any labs before and after DIM? I ended up buying a bottle and plan to start this evening at 200mg/day. Still feeling puffy, moody.

I appreciate you responding to all of my questions!

 

[bad rad]

Most people respond to 200mg Humanofort but I needed 400mg due to a lot of joint damage. It's a neat addition as it seems to make everything else work better.

200mg DIM cut my E2 in half (20s) vs not using it (40s). I don't remember how long I was using it before testing. My TRT is 20mg daily. Daily injections lowers and stabilizes E2 conversion but takes about 8 weeks to see the full effects. Testosterone stabilizes in about 4 weeks.

 

[Stantheman85]

And your testosterone and free test stayed about the same?

 

[bad rad]

Yes, nearly identical blood work.