First Cycle - Testostrone Only - Sustanon (Test S)

liljohn

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150 mg of Sustanon (Test S) on Monday and Thursday (300mg) a week for 12 weeks.

Starting PCT the Monday after my 12th week. I was suggested 100mg of clovid everyday for 30 days along with 1mg of arimidex every other day.

Any suggestions, clarifications, and edits to my first cycle are greatly appreciated.
 
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Renew1

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150 mg of Sustanon (Test S) on Monday and Thursday (300mg) a week for 12 weeks.

Starting PCT the Monday after my 12th week. I was suggested 100mg of clovid everyday for 30 days along with 100mg of arimidex every other day.

Any suggestions, clarifications, and edits to my first cycle are greatly appreciated.

NO.
(Really None of that)

(First) How did you decide on 300mg per week?

Get your advice on here from now on.

Whoever was recommending for you doesn't understand what they're talking about.
 

TMloc

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NO.
(Really None of that)

(First) How did you decide on 300mg per week?

Get your advice on here from now on.

Whoever was recommending for you doesn't understand what they're talking about.
🤣🤣 Hell yeah, 100mgs of clomid for 30 day for a low end test only. Sounds like the ole school bro advice.
His sust is probably dosed 300mg/ml
 
Mathb33

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What’s wrong with a first cycle of 300mg of test a week @Renew1 ?
 
Renew1

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What’s wrong with a first cycle of 300mg of test a week @Renew1 ?
I tend to be more conservative with recommendations than most on this site.

.... But I wouldn't recommend shutting down your natural hormones for 12 weeks of 300mg of Test.
 
Mathb33

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I tend to be more conservative with recommendations than most on this site.

.... But I wouldn't recommend shutting down your natural hormones for 12 weeks of 300mg of Test.
My first months on test were at 250mg and I made more progress on that dose than most people on this forum ever made on huge blasts. On a first cycle 500mg won’t really yield more gains than 300mg of test.
 
Renew1

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My first months on test were at 250mg and I made more progress on that dose than most people on this forum ever made on huge blasts. On a first cycle 500mg won’t really yield more gains than 300mg of test.
I don't believe that's true for most people.

Not at all.
 

Whisky

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Holy what the hell now.....

100mg clomid a day.....ok I see @Renew1 has highlighted the craziness of that **** above.

so I’ll hone in on the fact your running sust, a blend of esters including very fucking long esters.....bro that **** ain’t gonna be out of your system for a good 50 days after your last pin so it’s absolutely pointless starting pct the week after.

sust is just a terrible terrible choice of gear. Cyp, E or prop is what you wanted. Literally anything but sust.

you need to change that. If you already have the sust you could run it for 5 weeks then swap to c, e or p for the last 7 and wait 2-3 weeks to pct for c and e or one week for prop.

but better to just run one of the others all the way though.

and that pct, I’ve got tears in my eyes just thinking about that ffs
 

CroLifter

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I don't believe that's true for most people.

Not at all.
Well i wold say that it does depend on where are you starting from

if you got very high natural levels and especially if you are young like under 23, 250 probably wouldnt be groundbreaking, but then again if you are 20-21 and have 800+ test level stay the hell away from steroids unless you for sure got a chance at becoming a pro and earning money off of this

Aint worth sacrificing your 1000 ng/dl level for additional 5lbs of lean tissue imho believe us guys i remember being 16, 17 yrs old and getting crazy gains and the massive pumps i was getting...that is sth i can only recreate with gear nowadays...good natural test and igf levels at that age...dont fuk it up folks




But...on the other hand if you are like me and coming into the cycle with the natty levels in the 300s, hell yeah 250-300 is going to be noticeable, your test will be 1500+
 
Mathb33

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Well i wold say that it does depend on where are you starting from

if you got very high natural levels and especially if you are young like under 23, 250 probably wouldnt be groundbreaking, but then again if you are 20-21 and have 800+ test level stay the hell away from steroids unless you for sure got a chance at becoming a pro and earning money off of this

Aint worth sacrificing your 1000 ng/dl level for additional 5lbs of lean tissue imho believe us guys i remember being 16, 17 yrs old and getting crazy gains and the massive pumps i was getting...that is sth i can only recreate with gear nowadays...good natural test and igf levels at that age...dont fuk it up folks




But...on the other hand if you are like me and coming into the cycle with the natty levels in the 300s, hell yeah 250-300 is going to be noticeable, your test will be 1500+
I don’t think people realise what the average men produce per weeks... the answer is around 56mg. Saying that 300ish mg as a first cycle is not worth shutting yourself down is absolutely ridiculous. 300mg per week will put mostly anyone over 2000TT and some way above that. The idea is to leave room for future cycle and leave room to up dosages. 300-350mg is an extremely anabolic dose.
 
Mathb33

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@CroLifter theres not even 0.3% of men that ever had 1000 naturally. I think only about 2-3% scores 900ish. Everyone would triple their levels on 300mg of test.
 
Renew1

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I don’t think people realise what the average men produce per weeks... the answer is around 56mg. Saying that 300ish mg as a first cycle is not worth shutting yourself down is absolutely ridiculous. 300mg per week will put mostly anyone over 2000TT and some way above that. The idea is to leave room for future cycle and leave room to up dosages. 300-350mg is an extremely anabolic dose.

Notice all the guys on 56mg TRT and doing great??

.... Yeah, me neither
 
Renew1

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@CroLifter theres not even 0.3% of men that ever had 1000 naturally. I think only about 2-3% scores 900ish. Everyone would triple their levels on 300mg of test.
Sorry man... That's BS!

I WISH I could triple my levels at 300mg!
Never happen.
 
Codybenz

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I agree with Renew, 300 mg is borderline to shut your natural production down. I wouldn’t do it.

And I don’t think you can compare natural test production MG vs exogenous MG.

I know you can’t compare natural test numbers to someone who is on trt’s test number. 400ng/dl for natural test is different then 400ng/dl for someone on TRT.

Also there is no way to say what TT level a given dose is going to put someone at. Everyone is extremely different. 200mg a week barely puts me over 1000ng/dl TT for a trough level. 300Mg is probably not Going to put me anywhere near 2000ng/dl TT for a trough level.
 
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CroLifter

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Sorry man... That's BS!

I WISH I could triple my levels at 300mg!
Never happen.
Well see that's the thing

I triple my natty levels on 120mg, but a healthy 18 Yr old wouldn't triple his on 300mg even (not saying that an 18 Yr old should be even contemplating any of this)

Tbh... When I think back to when I was 16-18 and the recovery, gains and pumps I was getting back in the day... To recreate that I need to use 120mg of test e a week and 15 mg of mk677 daily... Then I am about as anabolic as my 16 -18 Yr old natty self


I blow up on 250 a week since the difference between the total test I achieve and my natty levels is like 500%... But I am sure if I took 250 at 17 the difference wouldn't be nearly as big as it is now, I would have barely gained a little

Its all relative in my opinion
 
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Mathb33

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Sorry man... That's BS!

I WISH I could triple my levels at 300mg!
Never happen.
Excuse me? So you think you wouldn’t triple your 500-600 TT on a 300mg weekly dose? Have you ever posted bloods here? Showed us anything about your cycles? Have you ever gotten bloodwork on a similar dose that you claim wouldnt triple your TT? Let’s assume you’re around 600-700TT which I’m very generous considering your potential age, 3 times that would be around 1800-2100 total testosterone. You are telling me most people injecting testosterone would not have those results?
 

Whisky

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Excuse me? So you think you wouldn’t triple your 500-600 TT on a 300mg weekly dose? Have you ever posted bloods here? Showed us anything about your cycles? Have you ever gotten bloodwork on a similar dose that you claim wouldnt triple your TT? Let’s assume you’re around 600-700TT which I’m very generous considering your potential age, 3 times that would be around 1800-2100 total testosterone. You are telling me most people injecting testosterone would not have those results?
can only comment for myself but I did recently (earlier this year) post bloods off a 350mg dose which had my test at nearly 10x top end of range - see below. Should be noted that i was also running deca from a different lab that I hadn’t heard of and although I was low dosing caber my prolactin figure suggests my deca may have been test, even if that were the case I’ve had bloods off just 180mg test that had me just above high range so 350mg would certainly put me way more than triple mid range)
 

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Mathb33

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so I guess the top coaches in this sport are all wrong. Dorian Hamilton , john meadows, Ian valliaire, Patrick tuor, hell why not name fouad, even this idiot Greg doucetteall of them publicly stated they wished they started under 400mg at their first cycle and all of them it’s what they suggest for first time users... yeah are all wrong and their reasoning makes no sense?
 
Mathb33

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can only comment for myself but I did recently (earlier this year) post bloods off a 350mg dose which had my test at nearly 10x top end of range - see below. Should be noted that i was also running deca from a different lab that I hadn’t heard of and although I was low dosing caber my prolactin figure suggests my deca may have been test, even if that were the case I’ve had bloods off just 180mg test that had me just above high range so 350mg would certainly put me way more than triple mid range)
You’re responding more than the usual but the average person is going to be well well well beyond normal levels on 300mg. Hell if you look up studies there is plenty of cases where they have 250mg of test to hundreds of males and 75% of them were close or over 2000. Idc what people say here it’s not because a few folks process test like **** that it’s the general consensus. 300-350mg is all someone need to blow up on a first cycle. Leaving him easy room to do another cycle after going up to 500ish and maybe add something else low. Every FUCKING pro claims they wish they didn’t start as high as they did and mostly everyone in this industry will say this idea of 500mg as a first cycle is dumb.
 

CroLifter

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Guys guys...calm your steroid abusing a$$es down 😂😂

I dont want 2 of the vets of this section to fall out with each other so intensely over dumb sh1t like this

I am a simple guy. Me see testosterone vial. Me injects approx 1ml a week. Me gains muscle

Make peace not war



That being said, i wanna know one thing

@Whisky how on Earth do you get your prolactin so low, mine is always like 1.5x the top of reference range?

My lab uses that exact same scale as yours does, 86-324, but that SOB is never below 400 in my case.

I took caber and i think the lowest it was like 343
 
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Renew1

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You’re responding more than the usual but the average person is going to be well well well beyond normal levels on 300mg. Hell if you look up studies there is plenty of cases where they have 250mg of test to hundreds of males and 75% of them were close or over 2000. Idc what people say here it’s not because a few folks process test like **** that it’s the general consensus. 300-350mg is all someone need to blow up on a first cycle. Leaving him easy room to do another cycle after going up to 500ish and maybe add something else low. Every FUCKING pro claims they wish they didn’t start as high as they did and mostly everyone in this industry will say this idea of 500mg as a first cycle is dumb.
I said what II said.

Go hit that Tren vial again.

LOL.
 
Mathb33

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I said what II said.

Go hit that Tren vial again.

LOL.
I was on tren for 6 weeks and it’s already been 6 weeks I’m off it’s long gone out of my system. What happend to you renew? Wasn’t my last message respectful enough to deserve a proper answer? Why did you feel you had to dive in personal insults? You used to be litterally the nicest guy in here and recently I see you hit pretty hard at people with your passive-aggressive attacks. Anyways.. I really don’t understand where you’re coming from with all of this but let’s end this here and I’ll make sure to stay away from your threads to prevent annoying you furthermore
 
Renew1

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You’re responding more than the usual but the average person is going to be well well well beyond normal levels on 300mg. Hell if you look up studies there is plenty of cases where they have 250mg of test to hundreds of males and 75% of them were close or over 2000. Idc what people say here it’s not because a few folks process test like **** that it’s the general consensus. 300-350mg is all someone need to blow up on a first cycle. Leaving him easy room to do another cycle after going up to 500ish and maybe add something else low. Every FUCKING pro claims they wish they didn’t start as high as they did and mostly everyone in this industry will say this idea of 500mg as a first cycle is dumb.
Yeah .....

I sent you a PM.
 
Hyde

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so I guess the top coaches in this sport are all wrong. Dorian Hamilton , john meadows, Ian valliaire, Patrick tuor, hell why not name fouad, even this idiot Greg doucetteall of them publicly stated they wished they started under 400mg at their first cycle and all of them it’s what they suggest for first time users... yeah are all wrong and their reasoning makes no sense?
I know what you are trying to say, but I think it’s worth noting that all of those guys did turn pro nonetheless, and they all had to use greater than recreational doses at some point regardless of starting at 300 or 500. They’re more outliers than examples.

I think 300mg for a very first cycle will make gains. My first oil cycle last year, was 300 test, but I also used Pheraplex and eventually some other junk like S4. So I can’t say test was really the big hitter when we know Phera is guaranteed size. But I also had 8 previous years of non-oil cycles and it was the best yet, so I would say the test made a big difference.

If he metabolizes it poorly he’s gonna be disappointed, but it will probably be a good learning experience regardless.

Anyway, Sustanon is garbo for someone planning to PCT and that PCT blows. And 25mg of Clomid or 20mg Nolva for 6 weeks ought to have him squared away.
 

Whisky

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I wasn't aware Sustanon would be such a poor choice. Why is that?
because of how long it takes to clear bro.....your body won’t start producing test naturally whilst you have the ester in your system. Prop is the quickest to clear which is why many guys will switch to that for the last 3-4 weeks so it clears quick and their natural levels can come back quick.

sust is for people on trt (or blast and cruise) really
 

CroLifter

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because of how long it takes to clear bro.....your body won’t start producing test naturally whilst you have the ester in your system. Prop is the quickest to clear which is why many guys will switch to that for the last 3-4 weeks so it clears quick and their natural levels can come back quick.

sust is for people on trt (or blast and cruise) really
I dont think everyone would agree. @Alchemist11 for sure loves his sust

I myself just use E all the time. Its very soluble, hits actually fast (injection peaks in 12-24 hours, go ahead and pin 150mg + while you have spent some time with sh1tty levels and tell me you dont feel it literally that or 2nd day, i for sure do) but doesnt drop off so fast that it would require too frequent pinning.

Its the perfect test ester imho.
 
Alchemist11

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I dont think everyone would agree. @Alchemist11 for sure loves his sust

I myself just use E all the time. Its very soluble, hits actually fast (injection peaks in 12-24 hours, go ahead and pin 150mg + while you have spent some time with sh1tty levels and tell me you dont feel it literally that or 2nd day, i for sure do) but doesnt drop off so fast that it would require too frequent pinning.

Its the perfect test ester imho.
IME It makes levels in bloods stable AF, and it's not that watery, at least for me... I think it's good for us who cycle, not blast and cruise since it gradualy leaves your body
 
xR1pp3Rx

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i think that being its sustanon it could be awesome for the first run.. dont forget there is 4 esters including undecylate ester in there.. this stuff used to be injected by noobs: 1 syringe (250 mgs) every 14 days believe it or not. sustanon is a bit different than just shooting 300 t e. because of this i dont think i would start a PCT until say about a month after the last injection.. this will be there until a yr later in some people
 

Whisky

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IME It makes levels in bloods stable AF, and it's not that watery, at least for me... I think it's good for us who cycle, not blast and cruise since it gradualy leaves your body
its there gradually leaving the body bit that’s the issue? (Agree on the stable bloods bit and if you experience less water then that’s fair enough.

when it only gradually clears it means you’ll have weeks and weeks of external test ( which we know suppresses our own production) but at sub par levels....... that’s just weeks and weeks of low test plus the weeks it’ll then take your body to kick its own Production back up. Just extending the period in which all the gains are lost surely?

unless I’ve got it very wrong I always thought we wanted to go from external test to our own natural levels as fast as possible bro, hence why we use clomid or nolva.

blast and cruise is fine for sust as there’s no intention to get your own production going anyway.... then a gradual drop off probably is preferable
 

CroLifter

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its there gradually leaving the body bit that’s the issue? (Agree on the stable bloods bit and if you experience less water then that’s fair enough.

when it only gradually clears it means you’ll have weeks and weeks of external test ( which we know suppresses our own production) but at sub par levels....... that’s just weeks and weeks of low test plus the weeks it’ll then take your body to kick its own Production back up. Just extending the period in which all the gains are lost surely?

unless I’ve got it very wrong I always thought we wanted to go from external test to our own natural levels as fast as possible bro, hence why we use clomid or nolva.

blast and cruise is fine for sust as there’s no intention to get your own production going anyway.... then a gradual drop off probably is preferable
Yeah thats why i like E not too long to leave the body as terminal elimination half life is like 5 days.

Even though E for me is perfect, i do sometimes think prop or at least a mix of prop and E would be great for people who cycle as we want to get our levels up as soon as possible


But then again i am not so sure, i got test flu after a 90mg injection of E 😁

Perhaps a gradual increase in plasma levels over 2 weeks isnt so bad after all.

Thats one thing that bothers me about short cycles of like 6 weeks

Even though i would prefer them, going from 300 test level to 2000 plus some other anabolic in a matter of 2-3 days doesnt seem too gentle on my body.
 

Whisky

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Yeah thats why i like E not too long to leave the body as terminal elimination half life is like 5 days.

Even though E for me is perfect, i do sometimes think prop or at least a mix of prop and E would be great for people who cycle as we want to get our levels up as soon as possible


But then again i am not so sure, i got test flu after a 90mg injection of E 😁

Perhaps a gradual increase in plasma levels over 2 weeks isnt so bad after all.

Thats one thing that bothers me about short cycles of like 6 weeks

Even though i would prefer them, going from 300 test level to 2000 plus some other anabolic in a matter of 2-3 days doesnt seem too gentle on my body.
e or c and switch to prop last 3 weeks is what I would do if I cycle again
 
Alchemist11

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its there gradually leaving the body bit that’s the issue? (Agree on the stable bloods bit and if you experience less water then that’s fair enough.

when it only gradually clears it means you’ll have weeks and weeks of external test ( which we know suppresses our own production) but at sub par levels....... that’s just weeks and weeks of low test plus the weeks it’ll then take your body to kick its own Production back up. Just extending the period in which all the gains are lost surely?

unless I’ve got it very wrong I always thought we wanted to go from external test to our own natural levels as fast as possible bro, hence why we use clomid or nolva.

blast and cruise is fine for sust as there’s no intention to get your own production going anyway.... then a gradual drop off probably is preferable
Well, it could be, but my logic behind it is that when it goes slowly out, your body has more 'natural' so to say, way of coming back with its own test, you just have to be good at timing your pct. I think the shorter the ester, the bigger shock for the body when its out of test.
 
Hyde

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Well, it could be, but my logic behind it is that when it goes slowly out, your body has more 'natural' so to say, way of coming back with its own test, you just have to be good at timing your pct. I think the shorter the ester, the bigger shock for the body when its out of test.
That’s been proven incorrect though. Maybe a big shock for how you feel, but not your HPTA. Same for thyroid; tapering is not a thing your body will recognize. It won’t restart until the exogenous levels get too low to satisfy the requirements for the feedback loop.

Time spent clearing on a cycle is wasted time.
 
Alchemist11

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That’s been proven incorrect though. Maybe a big shock for how you feel, but not your HPTA. Same for thyroid; tapering is not a thing your body will recognize. It won’t restart until the exogenous levels get too low to satisfy the requirements for the feedback loop.

Time spent clearing on a cycle is wasted time.
Maybe I misunderstood it, since my body recovers really good and fast after any cycle so far, knock on wood tho... Point taken!
 

CroLifter

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Maybe I misunderstood it, since my body recovers really good and fast after any cycle so far, knock on wood tho... Point taken!
You are still pretty young and you do take some time off, more than a lot of other people i would say.
 

liljohn

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I tend to be more conservative with recommendations than most on this site.

.... But I wouldn't recommend shutting down your natural hormones for 12 weeks of 300mg of Test.
How much test would you recommend for your first cycle for how long?
 

liljohn

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I know what you are trying to say, but I think it’s worth noting that all of those guys did turn pro nonetheless, and they all had to use greater than recreational doses at some point regardless of starting at 300 or 500. They’re more outliers than examples.

I think 300mg for a very first cycle will make gains. My first oil cycle last year, was 300 test, but I also used Pheraplex and eventually some other junk like S4. So I can’t say test was really the big hitter when we know Phera is guaranteed size. But I also had 8 previous years of non-oil cycles and it was the best yet, so I would say the test made a big difference.

If he metabolizes it poorly he’s gonna be disappointed, but it will probably be a good learning experience regardless.

Anyway, Sustanon is garbo for someone planning to PCT and that PCT blows. And 25mg of Clomid or 20mg Nolva for 6 weeks ought to have him squared away.
How you you dose your clomid over six weeks for pct?
 

liljohn

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🤣🤣 Hell yeah, 100mgs of clomid for 30 day for a low end test only. Sounds like the ole school bro advice.
His sust is probably dosed 300mg/ml
What would you suggest?

Looking for suggestions, edits, or advice.

Anything else is a waste of space.
 
Renew1

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It was meant to say 1mg :) Do you have any other advice?
The dosage ended up getting way more attention than it deserved, in this thread.
Your 1st cycle is history now.
But for a first cycle, I would've chosen a short Ester, and doser it a little higher. But like Hyde said, I'm sure this was a good learning experience for you. .... And that's important. I've seen so many first cycles turn to crap.

I think you ended up getting some good advice on PCT.
 

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