Feedback on my Winter Lean Bulk Plan

[Falco1098]

So in the past i have found i do just as good with lower doses of gear with some natural anabolic thrown in as when i do much more gear and no natural anabolic. Also in the past i did big 5-7K calorie bulks with over 1g of gear and gained 2+lbs a week, of course a lot of fat. I am only about 10-15lbs of muscle away from my goal so this is my rough plan for this winter - please give me feedback.

• Phase 1 (roughly weeks 1-4 but until lifts and recover start to slow)
  • 300 Test C, 100 Mast
  • 450 Epicatechin
  • Arachidonic Acid 1000mg
• Phase 2 (roughly weeks 5-8 but until lifts and recover start to slow)
  • 400 Test, 150 Mast
  • 450 Epicatechin
  • Arachidonic Acid 1000mg
• Phase 3 (roughly weeks 9-12 but until lifts and recover start to slow)
  • 500 Test, 200 Mast
  • 450 Epicatechin
  • Arachidonic Acid 1000mg
  • Phosphaditic Acid 800mg
• Phase 4 Weeks 13-16(roughly weeks 12-20 or until i gain 21lbs)
  • 500 Test, 300 Mast,
  • 450 Epicatechin
  • Arachidonic Acid 1000mg
  • Phosphaditic Acid 800mg
• Supercharger (add into end of Phase 4 if needed into goal of 21lbs)
  • 100 Tren A, 100 Npp, 50 Dbol

I will also be taking Reishi mushroom throughout to control conversion to DHT. Additionally i will be getting bloods at the +10-12lb mark to include Cortisol and Prolactin and add in supplements to control those if needed.

I will be eating to look at growing slowly at just .5-.75lbs a week during weeks 1-8, then upping to 1lb a week during weeks 9-16.

Edit 10/8/22 Items updated based on feedback and to add clarity - thank you to everyone so far

Edit 10/12/22 Removed Arach and PA for this Bulk. Adding in a ramp up from 500 to 2000mg of Boldanic Exubol which will mean moving from 50mg Turk/50mg Ecdysterone/50mg Other phytoectyderons up to 200 Turk/200 Ecdy/200 phytoecdy

Going to use Arach/PA/Exubol again next summer with just TRT during the summer maingain.

Thanks to all for the help and feedback in getting to what is a simpler and likley more effrective winter bulk combining AAS with NA.

 

[BCseacow83]

I LOVE IT! I 100% agree with combining NA's with traditional anabolics. I have stated that the main draw back of natural anabolics(NA's) is that they are not strong enough to cover up mistakes in training and nutrition. I do NOT assume you will make mistakes but when AAS are present any little gaps in the aforementioned two is covered. So IMO a NA will be allowed to work well in the presence of AAS.

Pathways
AAS primarily work via the androgen receptor with some secondary effects elsewhere but primarily the AR. Since NA's generally work via non-AR mediated pathways there is no reason to not use them as there is no redundancy. For example we don't say insulin and GH are useless because I am already growing on AAS do we? NO. I am NOT comparing effectiveness of insulin/gh with NA's but the theory/concept of using multiple pathways towards anabolism/reduced catabolism is not a new concept and is time proven to produce results.

The only things I would personally change:
I would run the ARA the whole time and I would drop the dbol during the last 4 weeks. With the other gear being the highest in total I just don't see much additional benefit from it and more of a toxic load and any HDL you still had at that point will be hit. You also might find a need for an AI especially since you are also adding in two 19-nor(with their progestin like POTENTIAL) at the same time. Shoot I would probably drop the NPP as well. That's just me though.

 

[Falco1098]

Wonderful and thank you so much for the feedback.. That was my rationale also: AAS use the Androgen Receptor mainly and NA use other pathways. Also PA, Arach and Epi generally dont overlap and use different pathways.

Forgot to mention i will also be taking Reishi mushroom to limit conversion of the AAS to DHT.

As for an AI, i have anastrozole if needed but on past runs with 900T, 800 Mast, 300 Tren and 600 EQ i needed no AI.

For Liver i run Glutahione, NAC, TUDCA and Shijat during/post blasts.

As for dropping Dbol and NPP, it is in a blend with the Tren A my source does and it is amazing - I will only add this at the end if i am hitting a wall as within 1 week of using it you just break through those walls - so think of it as a finisher only if needed.

 

[Smont]

The thing I don't like is that you've pre-planned when to raise your doses and when to add things. You should start a dose and ride it until the gains stall then raise your dose or add something, if you're still growing on 300 test and 100 mast why would you need to raise it? Or maybe your 10 weeks in and still growing on 500/200, what why change something that's working. I'm just using that as an example.

I also don't like dbol at the end, I pick something dryer, and the combination of 2 19nors "tren and nandrolone" it's not something I would do but some people get along fine with it maybe you're one of those people but I know most people don't do well combining 19 Nors.

Anyways, those are just my opinions...

 

[Falco1098]

Thank you. I get along fine with 19 nors and this blend in particular! Used itany times before.

I increase as planned as I always start my bulks at a weight that I can complete and increase for 6 weeks or so based on my last mom bulk mesocycle and after a deload. This allows me to increase weights continuously, pass my previous best bulk and give tendons et al the time to also grow.

I'm 50, so have you really plan things well to ensure no injure with maximum gains. And this is also slightly flexible if feeling really strong week 4 I will stay the road for a week or 2. Given the lower doses have no problem running for 20 weeks.

 

[Smont]

I gotta be honest, tren and orals get riskier and riskier the older we get. I usually tell most guys over 40 to avoid orals unless you're competing and using them at the end of your contest prep or leading up to a powerlifting meet, stick with things like test, primo, mast, nandrolone, gh. Avoid tren, trest and dhb.

I don't see much harm in 100mg tren tho.

Do you do bloodwork and are you on trt?

Just curious what bloods would look like for you after a cycle like this vs your baseline

 

[Falco1098]

I gotta be honest, tren and orals get riskier and riskier the older we get. I usually tell most guys over 40 to avoid orals unless you're competing and using them at the end of your contest prep or leading up to a powerlifting meet, stick with things like test, primo, mast, nandrolone, gh. Avoid tren, trest and dhb.

I don't see much harm in 100mg tren tho.

Do you do bloodwork and are you on trt?

Just curious what bloods would look like for you after a cycle like this vs your baseline

My dbol is not oral - it is injectable blended with 100mg Tren A, 100 NPP and 50 Dbol per ML. I have used this many times before and love it as an adder at the end - puts me in GOD MODE even if i am already past PBs and stalling i can go further for many more weeks.

I normally cruise on TRT pharm grade 125 TRT and 70 Deca. This run uses pharma T but UGL for the other stuff but it is from a trainer and guy i personally know and i know his process(he has almost a full mini lab in his house) so i trust his stuff is never underdosed.

 

[Smont]

You gonna hate me lol, but I would not touch that blend with a 10 foot pole because of the crap they use to get dbol into injectable solution, to top it off you got 250mg per ml total of short esters in that blend. In order to do that they use a buttload of solvents and EO. Horrible for your systemic inflammation, liver, cholesterol ect. That's why you only see pharmacy drugs like prop or ace come in 50-100mg/ml. Because that's about all you can fit without harsh chemical solvents

I'd imagine your bloodwork is gonna be trashed at the end of this cycle.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, just do yourself a favor and monitor your bloods on this cycle.

 

[Falco1098]

You gonna hate me lol, but I would not touch that blend with a 10 foot pole because of the crap they use to get dbol into injectable solution, to top it off you got 250mg per ml total of short esters in that blend. In order to do that they use a buttload of solvents and EO. Horrible for your systemic inflammation, liver, cholesterol ect. That's why you only see pharmacy drugs like prop or ace come in 50-100mg/ml. Because that's about all you can fit without harsh chemical solvents

I'd imagine your bloodwork is gonna be trashed at the end of this cycle.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, just do yourself a favor and monitor your bloods on this cycle.

I have used it so many times before in blasts and it is AMAZING and it doesnt trash my lipids any worse than just Tren alone. So my plan is to get bloods at week 8 or 10 and see where is stand. Again, i may go longer on each phase, ie 6 weeks, all dependent on am i stalling. Plan is to go to 20 weeks or 20lbs of weigh gain, whichever comes first. If i never trigger the need for the Tren/NPP/dbol mix it wont happen!

Thank you - no hate all feedback is taken and assimilated into what will be my final tweaked version. Will also post updates as it goes.

 

[Falco1098]

Edited the plan based on feedback and for clarity. Thank you all so far. Please keep the thoughts coming.

 

[Falco1098]

Final plan posted. Thanks to all for your feeback and suggestions i now have a simpler and likely more effective plan that blends AAS and NAs.

 

[Breandan]

So in the past i have found i do just as good with lower doses of gear with some natural anabolic thrown in as when i do much more gear and no natural anabolic. Also in the past i did big 5-7K calorie bulks with over 1g of gear and gained 2+lbs a week, of course a lot of fat. I am only about 10-15lbs of muscle away from my goal so this is my rough plan for this winter - please give me feedback.

• Phase 1 (roughly weeks 1-4 but until lifts and recover start to slow)
  • 300 Test C, 100 Mast
  • 450 Epicatechin
  • Arachidonic Acid 1000mg
• Phase 2 (roughly weeks 5-8 but until lifts and recover start to slow)
  • 400 Test, 150 Mast
  • 450 Epicatechin
  • Arachidonic Acid 1000mg
• Phase 3 (roughly weeks 9-12 but until lifts and recover start to slow)
  • 500 Test, 200 Mast
  • 450 Epicatechin
  • Arachidonic Acid 1000mg
  • Phosphaditic Acid 800mg
• Phase 4 Weeks 13-16(roughly weeks 12-20 or until i gain 21lbs)
  • 500 Test, 300 Mast,
  • 450 Epicatechin
  • Arachidonic Acid 1000mg
  • Phosphaditic Acid 800mg
• Supercharger (add into end of Phase 4 if needed into goal of 21lbs)
  • 100 Tren A, 100 Npp, 50 Dbol

I will also be taking Reishi mushroom throughout to control conversion to DHT. Additionally i will be getting bloods at the +10-12lb mark to include Cortisol and Prolactin and add in supplements to control those if needed.

I will be eating to look at growing slowly at just .5-.75lbs a week during weeks 1-8, then upping to 1lb a week during weeks 9-16.

Edit 10/8/22 Items updated based on feedback and to add clarity - thank you to everyone so far

Edit 10/12/22 Removed Arach and PA for this Bulk. Adding in a ramp up from 500 to 2000mg of Boldanic Exubol which will mean moving from 50mg Turk/50mg Ecdysterone/50mg Other phytoectyderons up to 200 Turk/200 Ecdy/200 phytoecdy

Going to use Arach/PA/Exubol again next summer with just TRT during the summer maingain.

Thanks to all for the help and feedback in getting to what is a simpler and likley more effrective winter bulk combining AAS with NA.

Hey man, I see what your trying to do here by trying to keep it tight while putting on some size.. I always have my clients go one way or the other butt I always experimented w I was younger so here goes... switch the Mast to d ball first half of cycle, get rid of the epicatechin and replace with equopise. That you can run through the whole cycle. Second half of cycle you can bring in the Mast. E.your ending supercharger use tren a, Test prop, and a light dose of anadrol(25 mg)MG. Your gonna need some arimedix. And h.c.g for post cycle...

 

[Falco1098]

Thank you for the feedback. I'm already 3 weeks in so going to stick with the plan. It was also vetted by my good friend and trainer. But I will look at something like this possibly for my next bulk.

Of note, I've been raising my calories 250 a week after the cut and I've been continuing to lose weight and I'm now up to 2750. Monday I go to 3,000.

 

[Breandan]

Thank you for the feedback. I'm already 3 weeks in so going to stick with the plan. It was also vetted by my good friend and trainer. But I will look at something like this possibly for my next bulk.

Of note, I've been raising my calories 250 a week after the cut and I've been continuing to lose weight and I'm now up to 2750. Monday I go to 3,000.

Awesome!! Have fun man

 

[Falco1098]

Awesome!! Have fun man

I am. Week 3 right now! Enjoying the extra energy from more calories right now. Lifts are all feeling good. Should be at previous PRs in about 6 weeks and looking to push past them for 11 weeks. I have 1.75lb microweights which allow this long over or push.

 

[Falco1098]

So just started Boldanic Exubol Turk and Ecdy....looks like it is a no go for me as just 2 days on it and both days a headache in the neck/back of head and the most painful and explosive gas you could imagine. Today i didnt take any and headache is subsiding and bowels are returning to normal(i can at least trust when i fart im not going to **** myself).

I have 20 bottles of unopened prodcut that would cost $205. Happy to part for $125 plus shipping.

 

[ReformedNerd]

So just started Boldanic Exubol Turk and Ecdy....looks like it is a no go for me as just 2 days on it and both days a headache in the neck/back of head and the most painful and explosive gas you could imagine. Today i didnt take any and headache is subsiding and bowels are returning to normal(i can at least trust when i fart im not going to **** myself).

I have 20 bottles of unopened prodcut that would cost $205. Happy to part for $125 plus shipping.

Interested

 

[Falco1098]

Well in to week 13 and just added by beloved blend of 100mg Tren A/100mg Npp/50mg dbol that i always add as a finisher to push me through the heaviest weight/most volume after already getting months under the belt.

Up 21lbs already way ahead of schedule and still seeing my bicep vein very well so this bulk i am gaining way more muscle compared to fat/water. New goal is 235 - just fucking send it!

Feeling great, no injuries/pains. If the next 7.5 weeks go as well as the past 12 i may settle in after this blast at my preferred leanness with a weight in the 215 range which was my goal!!!

That said i asked my fiance what she thought about me setting a new goal of 250 at my preferred leanness. She reaffirmed "go for it! I never understand the women who think more muslce is not great and sexy - build me my monster!"

So i guess 250 is my new goal!!!

 

[Gordon_Bennet]

How did it end and where you at now @Falco1098? Was an interesting thread to read, I'm considering 100mg/wk Tren A at the end of my bulk. Though I'm sure it's a bad idea, as this will be the first cycle I will have completed, after many cycles having to stop due to being uneducated.

 

[Falco1098]

How did it end and where you at now @Falco1098? Was an interesting thread to read, I'm considering 100mg/wk Tren A at the end of my bulk. Though I'm sure it's a bad idea, as this will be the first cycle I will have completed, after many cycles having to stop due to being uneducated.

It was a wonderful bulk. Adding tren the last 6 weeks is amazing. I have played around with end of cycle turbo chargers and thing the best is anavar and tren added to a lower dose T cycle.

So right now for this bulk i just started i am on 275T, 400 Deca, 300 primo for the entire 20 weeks. WIth that does of T i end up with around 1000 free and over 3000 total so i dont need high does.

Then the plan is to add Tren 100mg/wk and Anavar 50mg/d the last 6 weeks to absolutely crush the end of the bulk

 

[Gordon_Bennet]

It was a wonderful bulk. Adding tren the last 6 weeks is amazing. I have played around with end of cycle turbo chargers and thing the best is anavar and tren added to a lower dose T cycle.

So right now for this bulk i just started i am on 275T, 400 Deca, 300 primo for the entire 20 weeks. WIth that does of T i end up with around 1000 free and over 3000 total so i dont need high does.

Then the plan is to add Tren 100mg/wk and Anavar 50mg/d the last 6 weeks to absolutely crush the end of the bulk

Bosh!
Is that a blood test while you were on that dose of Test before, that you know that about your 'free' and 'total'?

 

[Falco1098]

Bosh!
Is that a blood test while you were on that dose of Test before, that you know that about your 'free' and 'total'?

Yes, it was a blood test. I normally get them pre cycle, mid-cycle then again post cycle. on 110mg of T i am at 1200 total and 50 free - both above range.

Here is from a month ago on 125T TRT only

And here is late December 2022 while i was on this bulk

Like i said, im a pretty high repsonder and i have low range SHBG causing my free to be at a higher ratio. So in the end only 275-300 T does the trick for me!