Fasted AM Training

The Whizard

The Whizard

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What supplements (if any) are recommended for AM training these days? BCAA, EAA, fast digesting carbs, etc. The science is always evolving (a good thing) and I trust the members here more than what Google thinks on this matter.
 
Mathb33

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Why in the world would you ever train fasted? Cardio sure even tho I wouldn’t recommend a natty doing it but training? Why in the hell? Your whole performance and development is based on your nutrition window pre and post workout as well as all your performance. Litterally the silliest thing someone could do.
 
mattierocks

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Why in the world would you ever train fasted? Cardio sure even tho I wouldn’t recommend a natty doing it but training? Why in the hell? Your whole performance and development is based on your nutrition window pre and post workout as well as all your performance. Litterally the silliest thing someone could do.
Well, let’s say you had a family, full-time job, and maybe even a part-time job that took up some evenings. You might find yourself in a position where an early AM workout is the only time you could consistently get to the gym. No one is arguing that it’s ideal, but for some folks it’s the best available option, at least for now.
 
The Whizard

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I do not have to be "fasted" thusly why I'm reaching out for advice. An early AM workout is my only option though with work schedule and personal life.
 
Kronic

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Why in the world would you ever train fasted? Cardio sure even tho I wouldn’t recommend a natty doing it but training? Why in the hell? Your whole performance and development is based on your nutrition window pre and post workout as well as all your performance. Litterally the silliest thing someone could do.
the main reason would be for health benefits and weight loss. I think bodybuilders would live longer if they did fasting more, but this is how people respond to suggesting it.
 
Kronic

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I've been injecting bcaas preworkout. I'm not sure if that breaks a fast or not but seems like a good way to toe the line
 
The Whizard

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To clarify my goal is to not remain fasted, but that there will be a narrow window for supplementation or snacking before training. Looking for advice on how to address this.
 
Kronic

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To clarify my goal is to not remain fasted, but that there will be a narrow window for supplementation or snacking before training. Looking for advice on how to address this.
I think the standard protocol is to have a pre workout meal and wait a bit, then do all your pwo and stuff. you don't have to do that though. I usually wake up, drink electrolyte powder, inject bcaa or do other anticatabolic (HICA), do pwo.

sometimes while lifting I'll drink some whole milk, or sometimes I'll lift in the evening after eating all day. try some stuff and see what works for you
 
Mathb33

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the main reason would be for health benefits and weight loss. I think bodybuilders would live longer if they did fasting more, but this is how people respond to suggesting it.
I do 45 mins fasted cardio daily 7 days a week even off season. In prep I’ll do way more. Up to 3x a day cardio. For anyone wanting to add muscle tissue training fasted is absolutely the worst idea ever and it’s no debate it’s a basic concept. For people training for the purpose of moving around and getting healthy then sure why not at this point.
 
Kronic

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I do 45 mins fasted cardio daily 7 days a week even off season. In prep I’ll do way more. Up to 3x a day cardio. For anyone wanting to add muscle tissue training fasted is absolutely the worst idea ever and it’s no debate it’s a basic concept. For people training for the purpose of moving around and getting healthy then sure why not at this point.
doesn't really make sense that you could say fasted cardio is good but fasted resistance training is bad. if fasted resistance training is bad, then cardio would be even worse for you
 
Mathb33

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doesn't really make sense that you could say fasted cardio is good but fasted resistance training is bad. if fasted resistance training is bad, then cardio would be even worse for you
Because your fasted cardio is done for health and fat lost and the fasted state is beneficial for that. (I still wouldn’t do it natty as the body will more likely eat off muscle) I’m surprised you can’t see the difference? Your training will be several hours separated from your morning fasted cardio and by that time you’ll have meals in, a pre workout meals and nutrients ready to be used as fuel and your glycogen storage will be saturated and you’ll actually have what it takes to perform and nourish the muscles instead of eating them away.
 
Kronic

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Because your fasted cardio is done for health and fat lost and the fasted state is beneficial for that. (I still wouldn’t do it natty as the body will more likely eat off muscle) I’m surprised you can’t see the difference? Your training will be several hours separated from your morning fasted cardio and by that time you’ll have meals in, a pre workout meals and nutrients ready to be used as fuel and your glycogen storage will be saturated and you’ll actually have what it takes to perform and nourish the muscles instead of eating them away.
I don't think it's so black and white, but I see your point. though if you eat a full meal before lifting, you will be less insulin sensitive after your workout. in theory, nutrient delivery could be better post workout if you haven't eaten yet that day. also i like to take anti catabolics, so I'm not really fasting anyways
 
The Whizard

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Because your fasted cardio is done for health and fat lost and the fasted state is beneficial for that. (I still wouldn’t do it natty as the body will more likely eat off muscle) I’m surprised you can’t see the difference? Your training will be several hours separated from your morning fasted cardio and by that time you’ll have meals in, a pre workout meals and nutrients ready to be used as fuel and your glycogen storage will be saturated and you’ll actually have what it takes to perform and nourish the muscles instead of eating them away.
Interesting conversation back and forth. Thank you for the feedback.

If one had to train in the AM what would you recommend for preworkout nutrition?
 
anthon88

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Years ago, USP Labs put something together called the FTP (Fasted Training Protocol) which utilized bcaas and a GDA I believe. Some members from this forum participated in it...some well known members I think too. I think some people enjoyed it and had good results. Just food for thought.
 

OutOfStep

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I don't think it's so black and white, but I see your point. though if you eat a full meal before lifting, you will be less insulin sensitive after your workout. in theory, nutrient delivery could be better post workout if you haven't eaten yet that day. also i like to take anti catabolics, so I'm not really fasting anyways
It's not better post workout. With a pre workout meal you're uptaking glucose directly into the muscle during exercise independent of insulin via exercise induced glut 4 translocation. This occurs even in diabetics with dysfunctional insulin signaling. This is ideal.
 
Kronic

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It's not better post workout. With a pre workout meal you're uptaking glucose directly into the muscle during exercise independent of insulin via exercise induced glut 4 translocation. This occurs even in diabetics with dysfunctional insulin signaling. This is ideal.
your body produces its own glucose too. it's called gluconeogenesis
 
Mathb33

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your body produces its own glucose too. it's called gluconeogenesis
Look there’s no point where you’ll win an argument proving that training with a pre workout meal with simple carbs and proteins isn’t good and that training fasted makes sense.
 
Kronic

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Look there’s no point where you’ll win an argument proving that training with a pre workout meal with simple carbs and proteins isn’t good and that training fasted makes sense.
I never said training after eating is bad. you seem to be missing half the things we are saying
 

johnny412

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I do 45 mins fasted cardio daily 7 days a week even off season. In prep I’ll do way more. Up to 3x a day cardio. For anyone wanting to add muscle tissue training fasted is absolutely the worst idea ever and it’s no debate it’s a basic concept. For people training for the purpose of moving around and getting healthy then sure why not at this point.
totally agree
 
Rocket3015

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I have trained in the AM fasted for about the last 20 years, I like a good stimmed PWO about 15 minutes before and sip on EAA during. After my work out I enjoy a meal on 50 grams protein powder with a half cup (dry) oats.
 
The Whizard

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I have trained in the AM fasted for about the last 20 years, I like a good stimmed PWO about 15 minutes before and sip on EAA during. After my work out I enjoy a meal on 50 grams protein powder with a half cup (dry) oats.
Thank you Rocket. Have you ever experimented with BCAAs or carbs preworkout?
 
mechka_grizli

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Why in the world would you ever train fasted? Cardio sure even tho I wouldn’t recommend a natty doing it but training? Why in the hell? Your whole performance and development is based on your nutrition window pre and post workout as well as all your performance. Litterally the silliest thing someone could do.
Its not at all that silly. That "window" people talk about is much larger than people realize. Recent studies have shown that
doesn't really make sense that you could say fasted cardio is good but fasted resistance training is bad. if fasted resistance training is bad, then cardio would be even worse for you
Because your fasted cardio is done for health and fat lost and the fasted state is beneficial for that. (I still wouldn’t do it natty as the body will more likely eat off muscle) I’m surprised you can’t see the difference? Your training will be several hours separated from your morning fasted cardio and by that time you’ll have meals in, a pre workout meals and nutrients ready to be used as fuel and your glycogen storage will be saturated and you’ll actually have what it takes to perform and nourish the muscles instead of eating them away.
You're not "eating" away muscle by doing a workout fasted. People drastically underestimate the body. If your last meal was at 8pm. Training at 4 or 5 am isnt gonna make your body "eat" your muscles
Go Ask top athletes and bodybuilders what they think of training fasted.
Many top athletes do it. The Rock and James Harrison (Steelers) have both said they train fasted from time to time. Just eat a massive meal post
Look there’s no point where you’ll win an argument proving that training with a pre workout meal with simple carbs and proteins isn’t good and that training fasted makes sense.
I have trained in the AM fasted for about the last 20 years, I like a good stimmed PWO about 15 minutes before and sip on EAA during. After my work out I enjoy a meal on 50 grams protein powder with a half cup (dry) oats.
I ONLY ever train fasted. Played D1 football, and wrestled in college. Never ate meal before hand. I would eat before games or a comp because those are hours long "workouts." Got to college I was 205. Gained and filled out at 230lbs, EVERY single A.M. weight lifting session was fasted.
 
Mathb33

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Its not at all that silly. That "window" people talk about is much larger than people realize. Recent studies have shown thatYou're not "eating" away muscle by doing a workout fasted. People drastically underestimate the body. If your last meal was at 8pm. Training at 4 or 5 am isnt gonna make your body "eat" your musclesMany top athletes do it. The Rock and James Harrison (Steelers) have both said they train fasted from time to time. Just eat a massive meal postI ONLY ever train fasted. Played D1 football, and wrestled in college. Never ate meal before hand. I would eat before games or a comp because those are hours long "workouts." Got to college I was 205. Gained and filled out at 230lbs, EVERY single A.M. weight lifting session was fasted.
We will never agree on this if the purpose is to develop muscle tissue.
 
Rocket3015

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Thank you Rocket. Have you ever experimented with BCAAs or carbs preworkout?
I have used both EAA & BCAA and did not "notice" any difference between the two. I don't use carbs preworkout for two reasons, (1) I carry more body fat than I would like so I see it as an opportunity to burn some fat, (2) preworkout cars spike my blood sugar and I crash before my workout is done.
 

johnny412

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I have used both EAA & BCAA and did not "notice" any difference between the two. I don't use carbs preworkout for two reasons, (1) I carry more body fat than I would like so I see it as an opportunity to burn some fat, (2) preworkout cars spike my blood sugar and I crash before my workout is done.
yeah those preworkout car crashes are killer lol! 😂:ROFLMAO:
 
Nac

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I dunno, there's ideals of course but I tend to think convenience trumps all else within reason. I mean if you end up skipping workouts cos you're trying to fit them into a busy time of day where you can train fed, as opposed to rarely missing a workout at another time but you're fasted...

Just be onto it with your intra/post-workout nutrition. I doubt you'll be missing out on any major gainz you would've had otherwise.
 
rodefeeh

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I train in the AM a lot. Here's my nutrition protocol that seems to work for me:
- 45 min prior consume stim pwo
- 35 min prior eat protein powder sludge mixed with 1/4 cup raisins or 6-7 dates
- during workout (optional) snack on a few saltine crackers or have one of my kids suckers/hard candy :)
- post workout eat a big breakfast

I workout at home so I can eat during my workout. Im not serious enough to have fancy intra workout supplementation.
 
Rocket3015

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I dunno, there's ideals of course but I tend to think convenience trumps all else within reason. I mean if you end up skipping workouts cos you're trying to fit them into a busy time of day where you can train fed, as opposed to rarely missing a workout at another time but you're fasted...

Just be onto it with your intra/post-workout nutrition. I doubt you'll be missing out on any major gainz you would've had otherwise.


"Just Do It"
 
LeanEngineer

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I recently started doing Eggs and a banana 30 minutes pre workout and then having oatmeal w/PB, syrup, cinnamon and berries post workout. I use to do it all pre workout but the oatmeal sometimes sits funny in my stomach consumming pre workout so taking it in post workout works better.
 
Rocket3015

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I'm Still Full For Sure !!
 
LeanEngineer

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Or as in my case today, you eat a Thanksgiving sized dinner the day before and dont have to worry about getting in any calories preworkout. #stillfull
That's called efficiency in my book ! ;)
 
mechka_grizli

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I've never had issues gaining muscle and 2 out of my 5 workouts in a week are fasted. Just a scoop of Nutrabio Intrablast or Morphogen Synthagen in 32oz water

I also dont consume protein shakes (lactose intolerant.) I just eat a massive post workout meal. Now if I could just lose weight as easily
 

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