Discussed before? Opioid mod=no shutdown?

mawalega

mawalega

Member
Awards
0
Forgive my ignorance but just randomly found this just now. Thoughts?

"Essentially, a u-opioid antagonist such as naloxone takes the brakes off of GnRH release and allows pulses of GnRH to occur as if no steroid hormones are present."
 
Last edited:
MadStax

MadStax

Member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
This is really cool, except naloxone is very expensive and you need a lot of it to do a full cycle?
 
mawalega

mawalega

Member
Awards
0
This is really cool, except naloxone is very expensive and you need a lot of it to do a full cycle?
Walking my dog so half posting I'll look up prices to see if it's even cost effective when I get back but:

Naloxone lacks oral bioavailability therefore injection is required. An injectable preparation could easily be made with BA water due to the water solubility of the compound. A 40mg subcutaneous injection would be a typical dose of naloxone. Naltrexone is orally active, with a safe and effective oral dose being about 100mg for a 220lb male. (18) While a lower dose of about 25-50mg of nalmefene would seemingly have the same benefit. (20,24) Increasing the dose of these drugs will surely increase the likelihood of side-effects without notably increasing the benefit. A twice a week dosing protocol would seem appropriate with these drugs, as only to increase GnRH and LH release enough to prevent pituitary and testicular shutdown ñ Just enough to keep them in the “ball game” so to speak. Also, a twice a week dosing protocol would most likely limit the increased opioid sensitivity induced by the long-term use of the drugs.
 
MadStax

MadStax

Member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
A 10ml vial of 0.4mg/ml is $95. Perhaps they meant 40mcg? That would be $950 per dose! Lol
 
mawalega

mawalega

Member
Awards
0
My online pharm has Naltrexone Hcl for under 3 bucks for 10/50mg...... 🤔🤔... Where are those pharm versed guys at lol
 
mawalega

mawalega

Member
Awards
0
Seems almost too good to be true so I gotta do more research. But author infers it could be beneficial to make the htpa more sensitive to gnrh during pct as well...

these drugs have the ability to increase pituitary sensitivity to GnRH. (26,27)

U-opioid antagonists have long been used for treatment of opioid dependence; not only to control cravings of narcotics, but to restore a suppressed endocrine system.

And for the missus

Naltrexone has even been proposed as a treatment for male impotence and erectile dysfunction. (30,31)
 
mawalega

mawalega

Member
Awards
0
The question is, who will test the theory? This could be a breakthrough!
Haha I just got done reading the entire thread on clomid/torem on cycle to minimize suppression and it, unfortunately, didn't speak to me on how most bloods turned out but I stumbled on this and it peaked my interest
 
mawalega

mawalega

Member
Awards
0
So more erections but not better levels here, though these were "healthy males" without suppression


The group treated with naltrexone showed a significant rise in spontaneous early morning erections during the treatment: from 2.8 +/- 0.3 to 4.2 +/- 0.3 a week

There was no difference in LH, follicle-stimulating hormone, or testosterone concentrations in both groups.
 
Last edited:
mawalega

mawalega

Member
Awards
0
old guys with low to low norm test levels

Nalmefene resulted in significant rises in testosterone, LH, and FSH. Nalmefene significantly elevated morning and evening cortisol measurements in all the patients.


Cort control and boosts test in rats

NTX in control non-stressed males did not modify corticosterone plasma levels, but did cause a significant increase in plasma testosterone.


(Male monkeys)

LH increased significantly above baseline within 20 to 40 min and T increased significantly within 60 min.

 
Last edited:
jtmartin18

jtmartin18

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
The narcan nasal spray (Naloxone) is $20 with my health insurance. I think it’s only used for suspected ODs though so I have no idea how it would be possible to run a cycle haha
 
jtmartin18

jtmartin18

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
Naltrexone on the other hand you can likely get any doc to prescribe and any insurance company to pay for. Tell your doc you’re addicted to opioids and want to quit they’ll shove it down your throat and your insurance company will gladly pay because it puts you at a lower risk of going to the ER and costing them more money
 
Last edited:
StarScream66

StarScream66

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
This seems to be a high risk low reward potential. Sure, it's theoretically possible for this to be true, but expensive and you aren't considering the side effects your get from Naloxone. Why not just go with tried and true hCG?

 

Whisky

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
This seems to be a high risk low reward potential. Sure, it's theoretically possible for this to be true, but expensive and you aren't considering the side effects your get from Naloxone. Why not just go with tried and true hCG?

yeah I’m thinking the same. I’m not sure I’m understanding any real upside over hcg?
 

UNX

Member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
This seems to be a high risk low reward potential. Sure, it's theoretically possible for this to be true, but expensive and you aren't considering the side effects your get from Naloxone. Why not just go with tried and true hCG?

But this is different. HCG supresses GnRH, thus LH/FSH release. With naltrexone/naloxone, if it works, you're producing GnRH, like a SERM would do. Of course, this can have a profound impact on mood.

BTW, does Kratom lower test levels?

EDIT: about sides, non-centrally acting mu antagonists raise only LH, not testosterone. These have less sides than naloxone/naltrexone. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28554659/

EDIT2: mu antagonist seem to release GnRH acting upon the Kisspeptin pathway. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31290091/ and also act on testicular steroidogenesis https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26449162/
 
Last edited:
mawalega

mawalega

Member
Awards
0
naltrexone is very cheap and should function just as effective as naloxone. Hcg keeps you testies going, not your pituitary. This seems to keep the pituitary from being suppressed by blocking the signal that tells it "shut down too much test in body stop producing gnrh".... It would keep one from complete shutdown on cycle. Sides under 100 mg don't seem bad and it would keep us from drinking on cycle lol. Not saying do it, I found the info and I don't really want to be on trt the rest of my life but I enjoy cycling...

This seems to be a high risk low reward potential. Sure, it's theoretically possible for this to be true, but expensive and you aren't considering the side effects your get from Naloxone. Why not just go with tried and true hCG?

@Whiskey
 
Last edited:
mawalega

mawalega

Member
Awards
0
Opioid antagonists and test c in rats.


"Opioid antagonists seem to increase the secretion of GnRH in the hypothalamus which then causes a pulsatile release of LH in the pituitary and secretion of testosterone."

 
Last edited:

Jstrong20

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
[QUOTE

BTW, does Kratom lower test levels?

[/QUOTE]

Hope not because I use it every week. Ha I have heard that it does though. I’m stupidly lean right now and on sarms anyway so my hormones are probably wrecked anyhow. At least I look awesome. Lol
 

Jstrong20

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
[QUOTE

BTW, does Kratom lower test levels?

[/QUOTE]

Hope not because I use it every week. Ha I have heard that it does though. I’m stupidly lean right now and on sarms anyway so my hormones are probably wrecked anyhow. At least I look awesome. Lol
 
mawalega

mawalega

Member
Awards
0
you aren't considering the side effects your get from Naloxone. Why not just go with tried and true hCG?
True naloxone is very expensive and serious sides, but naltrexone is cheap, oral, and mild sides.

Edit: most studies use 50mg, with 100 a day being the max... Seems mostly user dependent if depression/insomnia/anxiety effects you (sides reported from a user forum, not a drug overview). Some report it others none. Kind of sounds like reviews of clomid.
 
Last edited:

kl1234

Member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
True naloxone is very expensive and serious sides, but naltrexone is cheap, oral, and mild sides.

Edit: most studies use 50mg, with 100 a day being the max... Seems mostly user dependent if depression/insomnia/anxiety effects you (sides reported from a user forum, not a drug overview). Some report it others none. Kind of sounds like reviews of clomid.

Look into Low dose Naltrexone(used daily).

I’ve used it for months at a time. Only side I’ve ever noticed was slight insomnia.
 
mawalega

mawalega

Member
Awards
0
Look into Low dose Naltrexone(used daily).

I’ve used it for months at a time. Only side I’ve ever noticed was slight insomnia.
Nice. Yea I saw some studies on LDN but usually single digit numbers are given daily and Id think more would be needed to apply here, but sides do not seem that bad for the trade off of potentially not being shutdown. Unless I see some real reason why not to, I'll prob test in a few months when I travel to the Philippines to live for a bit and I can do a bunch of bloods since it'll be cheap

Either way it's crazy how many things LDN can potentially help outside of this possible application
 

Top