FOXDIE
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feel free to point out parts i can cut out or that dont help explain anything. i doubt with the size of this post anyone will/much of anyone will assist or read it. but i couldnt shorten it and leave out relevant information, so i figured id just keep it super long and take the risk of no responders.
rather than me post a question or post without enough info, where the thread turns into pages of you guys asking me a question or about something and me responding and so on, and genuinely being an inffecient waste of everyones time, hopefully some see the merit of me providing you with hopefully everything you could need to know. this is my first post on this forum in years so hopefully im not posting something that isnt what you are used to in content or scope. thank you for reading and helping me out if you can. its a selfless act, and i dont take it for granted.
Over the years, my testosterone levels have fallen in normal range at 160 mg (t cyp )weekly. 160mg is what i have settled on with a doctor and have continued on that for the vast majority of my time on TRT after the first couple months of titrating upwards in dosage. of note, my libido wasn't much better at the beginning before e2 could have become a problem, as many people experience a window in the beginning due to either lower levels, or just simply not enough time for e2 to build up, where they experience great effects even if they are bound for estradiol issues in the near future. like a honeymoon period many seem to experience before the e2 storm comes and things need fixing.
Free t has always been high within range or slightly over as in 10-20 over the limit. TSH has been at the bottom of the range, pushing near zero as I'm on thyroid replacement, so my body shouldn't be trying to stimulate production. I guess like testosterone and LH(?).
*Last labs showed total testosterone at about 500 and free t about 20 over the limit. That already struck me as kinda odd; that total T was in the middle and free t was kinda high. now for the estrogen level from that same test...
Estradiol was 22.
Now I've had libido, edema, emotional, and other estrogen-type issues for the duration of my trt journey, due to what i believe in my gut is inappropriate values of one or more of the following: e2, shbg, free t, and thyroid hormones.
*These labs were taken towards the end of my weekly injection cycle of 160mg weekly, and why my T levels were only 500 or so, and e2 only 22.
After those labs i decided to go back to more frequent dosing. I started doing 80mg every 3.5 days, this way i didnt have to worry about the validity of my e2, test, etc levels on any given day, and could assume now a much much smaller window of variation for all values concerned.
Then i retested. Now, testing 48-72 hours after my last injection of 80mg, with me doing them every 3.5 days, my levels came back as shown further below.
Some things ive noticed during the months between my "end of the week, while on 160mg weekly injections" test results and my "2 days after last injection, while on e3.5 days injections of 80mg each" test results:
Edema opccuring more often, to the point of low grade edema constantly, with massive edema flareups more often then ever where i cant even put shoes on for days, and standing still and standing up for any length of time causes it to get real bad, worse libido then before, which is saying a lot since it was already nonexistant basically, but now its hard to even masturbate, fat gains in the face of supposedly dieting and intense short cardio sessions, lack of drive for life/advancement/climbing the mountain/getting the girl/battle. just your typical e2 stuff.
Now, additional relevant details. All ive changed between these tests are reducing dhea consumption from 150mg/100mg daily to 50mg daily/eod. i know from testing that my dhea was within range on all of those dosages but wanted to be ever so careful about e2 conversion regardless. and i split my injections into even more frequent doses, so i should have even lower lows then before. yet take a look... i almost wanted to not mention the dhea at all because i really didnt want it to be factored into peoples analysis of everything as there is no way its primarily or even heavily relevant to the issues at hand.
Rant:
(Makes me wonder, maybe once weekly and every two weeks works for the vast majority of guys in the world, of which most just go on with their lives ****ing and feeling great and dominating life and never so much a think of checking out a forum, because the days where you go low gives your body time to adjust and catch up on getting that e2 out/less days of excessive e2 conversion overall so your body can generally handle it better on a week to week basis? i swear, you look at the numbers, the facts. the medical studies, the data, not what all the bros say and who they know and what they think they know, and really, people do pretty darn well and say they feel awesome when they aren't aware of all the **** we talk about and just get on every week or two week dosing... just ranting to myself about that i guess, because i feel like i should go back to weekly dosing now maybe...)
</end rant>
even more relevant details.....
other health issues i have are ulcerative colitis (think Crohn's basically if that helps), hypothyroidism. these latest test results not only show bad TRT hormone results, but i was told by the doctor i have a very low blood count, slightly high liver values as well. the fun never ends. Also I am extremely underhydrated. I seriously only have the desire to drink like a glass of drink a day. i never want to drink. its pretty weird. hasn't always been this way, used to carry a gallon jug of water around with me like a real meat.
so obviously tonight i ripped my place apart hunting for my letrozole i hid away from myself months ago when i decided to stop messing around with **** and took one
. even though my doc is against and wont prescribe me e2 reduction meds and he will say my free and total and e2 are all high so clearly i need to lower my dosage of T and all of those will go lower. which i agree is true. but thats not the point. we cant just reduce Testosterone 80% to get an 80% reduction in Estradiol that's just not "right". i believe lowering my total testosterone slightly may come along with a much greater decrease of estradiol, as i may be near that point of diminshing returns, where the more my total testo goes up, the much much more my estradiol goes up. either that, or leave everything as it is, focus on one thing, the e2 first, reduce that to proper range, THEN reasses everything and move on from there adjusting another facet of treatment.
i stopped seriously lifting sadly about two years ago, much of it due to the incredible tiredness I have constantly and extreme lack of energy and motivation. I still have the willpower to do cardio though. Lifting, the way I used to, the right way, with animal intensity and full focus and leaving nothing out of your workouts, is just something I know I couldn't do even 1/4 as seriously as before. I literally could fall asleep on the bench after a few sets. I can barely keep my eyes open I'm so tired in general anymore.
To further confound everything, my energy issues, estrogen type issues (libido, edema, etc), all my problems have existed for years now. these results were only from just a week ago. so i feel like if all these results speak truly to my current condition, that what about all my blood results over the last few years when ive felt much this same way? i just cant understand why my results are so different for TSH, total T, free T, e2, and more, just in the last test. and why i should take action or care about these latest tests versus my results over the last few years? i guess because its the most recent set of results i have, but i just think, even if i got my levels back to how they were before, why would that make me feel any better than before? maybe thats not important, as regardless of ANYTHING I think/feel, if this is the reality, now, and things must be fixed and taken care of, then i need to start working on these issues, regardless of my thoughts.
** Testosterone, Free and Total 04JUN2014 16:30 LAB FinalTestosterone, Free and TotalCollected: 4 Jun14 16:30
Result Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.Testosterone,Total. 1077Result Comment:Reference range: 250 to 1100Unit: ng/dL(NOTE)For more information on this test, go tohttp://education.questdiagnostics.com/faq/TotalTestosteroneLCMSMSResult Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.Free Testosterone. 370.5 HResult Comment:Reference range: 35.0 to 155.0
Unit: pg/mL
** Estradiol 04JUN2014 16:30 LAB FinalEstradiolCollected: 4 Jun14 16:30
Result Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.Estradiol 87 H (7.6-42.0) pg/mL
** Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) 04JUN2014 16:30 LAB FinalThyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)Collected: 4 Jun14 16:30Result Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.
TSH 3.01 (0.3-5.0) uIU/mL
** Comp Metabolic Pnl Without Glucose 04JUN2014 16:30 LAB FinalComp Metabolic Pnl Without GlucoseCollected: 4 Jun14 16:30
Result Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.Sodium 137 (135-146) mmol/LPotassium 3.6 (3.5-5.0) mmol/LChloride 98 (89-109) mmol/LCO2 31 (24-32) mmol/LAnion Gap 8 (4-16) mmol/LUrea-Nitrogen 17 (10-22) mg/dLCreatinine 1.3 (0.7-1.4) mg/dLestGFR >60 UnitsResult Comment:MULTIPLY BY 1.2 IF AFRICAN AMERICANUnits=mL/min/1.73m2Protein 7.4 (6.0-8.5) g/dLAlbumin 4.4 (3.2-4.9) g/dLCalcium 9.1 (8.5-10.3) mg/dLResult Comment:NOTE REFERENCE RANGE CHANGE EFFECTIVE MAY 15,2014Bilirubin, Total 0.3 (0.1-0.9) mg/dLAlk Phos (ALP) 82 (29-92) IU/LAST (SGOT) 53 H (7-42) IU/L
ALT (SGPT) 36 (1-45) IU/L
** Glucose, Plasma 04JUN2014 16:30 LAB FinalGlucose, Plasma
Collected: 4 Jun14 16:30
Result Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.Glucose, Plasma 82 (70-100) mg/dL
** CBC + Diff, Automated 04JUN2014 16:30 LAB FinalCBC + Diff, AutomatedCollected: 4 Jun14 16:30
Result Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.
WBC.. 7.3 (4-11) B/LRBC 4.23 L (4.5-6.0) T/LHGB 11.6 L (14.0-17) g/dLHCT 34.9 L (42-52) %MCV 83 (80-99) fL
MCH 27.4 (26-34) pg
MCHC 33.2 (32.0-37.5) g/dL
RDW 14.2 (11.0-15.8) %
Platelet Count 293 (140-400) B/L
MPV 11.1 (9-13) fL
Differential Type AUTOMATED
Neutrophils. 43.7 (40-73) %Lymphocytes. 37.9 (20-44) %Monocytes. 11.7 (3-13) %Eosinophils. 6.1 H (0-6) %Basophils. 0.5 (0-3) %Immature Granulocyte 0.1 (0.0-0.7) %Absolute Neutrophils 3.19 (1.6-8.0) B/LAbsolute Lymphocytes 2.78 (0.8-4.8) B/LAbsolute Monocytes 0.86 (0.1-1.4) B/L
Absolute Eosinophils 0.45 (0.0-0.7) B/LAbsolute Basophils 0.04 (0.0-0.3) B/LAbs Immature Granulo 0.01 (0.0-0.06) B/L
Comment:
May God have mercy on your souls, those of you about to attempt to unravel this mystery.
rather than me post a question or post without enough info, where the thread turns into pages of you guys asking me a question or about something and me responding and so on, and genuinely being an inffecient waste of everyones time, hopefully some see the merit of me providing you with hopefully everything you could need to know. this is my first post on this forum in years so hopefully im not posting something that isnt what you are used to in content or scope. thank you for reading and helping me out if you can. its a selfless act, and i dont take it for granted.
Over the years, my testosterone levels have fallen in normal range at 160 mg (t cyp )weekly. 160mg is what i have settled on with a doctor and have continued on that for the vast majority of my time on TRT after the first couple months of titrating upwards in dosage. of note, my libido wasn't much better at the beginning before e2 could have become a problem, as many people experience a window in the beginning due to either lower levels, or just simply not enough time for e2 to build up, where they experience great effects even if they are bound for estradiol issues in the near future. like a honeymoon period many seem to experience before the e2 storm comes and things need fixing.
Free t has always been high within range or slightly over as in 10-20 over the limit. TSH has been at the bottom of the range, pushing near zero as I'm on thyroid replacement, so my body shouldn't be trying to stimulate production. I guess like testosterone and LH(?).
*Last labs showed total testosterone at about 500 and free t about 20 over the limit. That already struck me as kinda odd; that total T was in the middle and free t was kinda high. now for the estrogen level from that same test...
Estradiol was 22.
Now I've had libido, edema, emotional, and other estrogen-type issues for the duration of my trt journey, due to what i believe in my gut is inappropriate values of one or more of the following: e2, shbg, free t, and thyroid hormones.
*These labs were taken towards the end of my weekly injection cycle of 160mg weekly, and why my T levels were only 500 or so, and e2 only 22.
After those labs i decided to go back to more frequent dosing. I started doing 80mg every 3.5 days, this way i didnt have to worry about the validity of my e2, test, etc levels on any given day, and could assume now a much much smaller window of variation for all values concerned.
Then i retested. Now, testing 48-72 hours after my last injection of 80mg, with me doing them every 3.5 days, my levels came back as shown further below.
Some things ive noticed during the months between my "end of the week, while on 160mg weekly injections" test results and my "2 days after last injection, while on e3.5 days injections of 80mg each" test results:
Edema opccuring more often, to the point of low grade edema constantly, with massive edema flareups more often then ever where i cant even put shoes on for days, and standing still and standing up for any length of time causes it to get real bad, worse libido then before, which is saying a lot since it was already nonexistant basically, but now its hard to even masturbate, fat gains in the face of supposedly dieting and intense short cardio sessions, lack of drive for life/advancement/climbing the mountain/getting the girl/battle. just your typical e2 stuff.
Now, additional relevant details. All ive changed between these tests are reducing dhea consumption from 150mg/100mg daily to 50mg daily/eod. i know from testing that my dhea was within range on all of those dosages but wanted to be ever so careful about e2 conversion regardless. and i split my injections into even more frequent doses, so i should have even lower lows then before. yet take a look... i almost wanted to not mention the dhea at all because i really didnt want it to be factored into peoples analysis of everything as there is no way its primarily or even heavily relevant to the issues at hand.
Rant:
(Makes me wonder, maybe once weekly and every two weeks works for the vast majority of guys in the world, of which most just go on with their lives ****ing and feeling great and dominating life and never so much a think of checking out a forum, because the days where you go low gives your body time to adjust and catch up on getting that e2 out/less days of excessive e2 conversion overall so your body can generally handle it better on a week to week basis? i swear, you look at the numbers, the facts. the medical studies, the data, not what all the bros say and who they know and what they think they know, and really, people do pretty darn well and say they feel awesome when they aren't aware of all the **** we talk about and just get on every week or two week dosing... just ranting to myself about that i guess, because i feel like i should go back to weekly dosing now maybe...)
</end rant>
even more relevant details.....
other health issues i have are ulcerative colitis (think Crohn's basically if that helps), hypothyroidism. these latest test results not only show bad TRT hormone results, but i was told by the doctor i have a very low blood count, slightly high liver values as well. the fun never ends. Also I am extremely underhydrated. I seriously only have the desire to drink like a glass of drink a day. i never want to drink. its pretty weird. hasn't always been this way, used to carry a gallon jug of water around with me like a real meat.
so obviously tonight i ripped my place apart hunting for my letrozole i hid away from myself months ago when i decided to stop messing around with **** and took one
. even though my doc is against and wont prescribe me e2 reduction meds and he will say my free and total and e2 are all high so clearly i need to lower my dosage of T and all of those will go lower. which i agree is true. but thats not the point. we cant just reduce Testosterone 80% to get an 80% reduction in Estradiol that's just not "right". i believe lowering my total testosterone slightly may come along with a much greater decrease of estradiol, as i may be near that point of diminshing returns, where the more my total testo goes up, the much much more my estradiol goes up. either that, or leave everything as it is, focus on one thing, the e2 first, reduce that to proper range, THEN reasses everything and move on from there adjusting another facet of treatment.i stopped seriously lifting sadly about two years ago, much of it due to the incredible tiredness I have constantly and extreme lack of energy and motivation. I still have the willpower to do cardio though. Lifting, the way I used to, the right way, with animal intensity and full focus and leaving nothing out of your workouts, is just something I know I couldn't do even 1/4 as seriously as before. I literally could fall asleep on the bench after a few sets. I can barely keep my eyes open I'm so tired in general anymore.
To further confound everything, my energy issues, estrogen type issues (libido, edema, etc), all my problems have existed for years now. these results were only from just a week ago. so i feel like if all these results speak truly to my current condition, that what about all my blood results over the last few years when ive felt much this same way? i just cant understand why my results are so different for TSH, total T, free T, e2, and more, just in the last test. and why i should take action or care about these latest tests versus my results over the last few years? i guess because its the most recent set of results i have, but i just think, even if i got my levels back to how they were before, why would that make me feel any better than before? maybe thats not important, as regardless of ANYTHING I think/feel, if this is the reality, now, and things must be fixed and taken care of, then i need to start working on these issues, regardless of my thoughts.
** Testosterone, Free and Total 04JUN2014 16:30 LAB FinalTestosterone, Free and TotalCollected: 4 Jun14 16:30
Result Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.Testosterone,Total. 1077Result Comment:Reference range: 250 to 1100Unit: ng/dL(NOTE)For more information on this test, go tohttp://education.questdiagnostics.com/faq/TotalTestosteroneLCMSMSResult Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.Free Testosterone. 370.5 HResult Comment:Reference range: 35.0 to 155.0
Unit: pg/mL
** Estradiol 04JUN2014 16:30 LAB FinalEstradiolCollected: 4 Jun14 16:30
Result Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.Estradiol 87 H (7.6-42.0) pg/mL
** Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) 04JUN2014 16:30 LAB FinalThyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)Collected: 4 Jun14 16:30Result Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.
TSH 3.01 (0.3-5.0) uIU/mL
** Comp Metabolic Pnl Without Glucose 04JUN2014 16:30 LAB FinalComp Metabolic Pnl Without GlucoseCollected: 4 Jun14 16:30
Result Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.Sodium 137 (135-146) mmol/LPotassium 3.6 (3.5-5.0) mmol/LChloride 98 (89-109) mmol/LCO2 31 (24-32) mmol/LAnion Gap 8 (4-16) mmol/LUrea-Nitrogen 17 (10-22) mg/dLCreatinine 1.3 (0.7-1.4) mg/dLestGFR >60 UnitsResult Comment:MULTIPLY BY 1.2 IF AFRICAN AMERICANUnits=mL/min/1.73m2Protein 7.4 (6.0-8.5) g/dLAlbumin 4.4 (3.2-4.9) g/dLCalcium 9.1 (8.5-10.3) mg/dLResult Comment:NOTE REFERENCE RANGE CHANGE EFFECTIVE MAY 15,2014Bilirubin, Total 0.3 (0.1-0.9) mg/dLAlk Phos (ALP) 82 (29-92) IU/LAST (SGOT) 53 H (7-42) IU/L
ALT (SGPT) 36 (1-45) IU/L
** Glucose, Plasma 04JUN2014 16:30 LAB FinalGlucose, Plasma
Collected: 4 Jun14 16:30
Result Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.Glucose, Plasma 82 (70-100) mg/dL
** CBC + Diff, Automated 04JUN2014 16:30 LAB FinalCBC + Diff, AutomatedCollected: 4 Jun14 16:30
Result Name Result Abnl Normal Range Units Perf. Loc.
WBC.. 7.3 (4-11) B/LRBC 4.23 L (4.5-6.0) T/LHGB 11.6 L (14.0-17) g/dLHCT 34.9 L (42-52) %MCV 83 (80-99) fL
MCH 27.4 (26-34) pg
MCHC 33.2 (32.0-37.5) g/dL
RDW 14.2 (11.0-15.8) %
Platelet Count 293 (140-400) B/L
MPV 11.1 (9-13) fL
Differential Type AUTOMATED
Neutrophils. 43.7 (40-73) %Lymphocytes. 37.9 (20-44) %Monocytes. 11.7 (3-13) %Eosinophils. 6.1 H (0-6) %Basophils. 0.5 (0-3) %Immature Granulocyte 0.1 (0.0-0.7) %Absolute Neutrophils 3.19 (1.6-8.0) B/LAbsolute Lymphocytes 2.78 (0.8-4.8) B/LAbsolute Monocytes 0.86 (0.1-1.4) B/L
Absolute Eosinophils 0.45 (0.0-0.7) B/LAbsolute Basophils 0.04 (0.0-0.3) B/LAbs Immature Granulo 0.01 (0.0-0.06) B/L
Comment:
May God have mercy on your souls, those of you about to attempt to unravel this mystery.
