Cycle Critique

manifesto

manifesto

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Im on TRT. I'm 6'00 195lbs not sure on body fat, but I have visible abs and pretty athletic physique. I'm looking to add some lean muscle, and recomp some.

Not interesting in bulking or getting sloppy. This will only be my 2nd cycle. The first was 400mg test cyp for 12 weeks. I used an AI for some of that run, but with bloodwork, determined I did not aromatize very much. This is my proposed next cycle.

Week 1-12
Test Cypionate 400mg
Primo Enanthate 400mg (legit source)
600 mg injectable L-Carnitine/ daily
200-300mg Stanogen occasionally

I am considering adding msten (20-30) weeks 8-12, or possibly at the beginning of the cycle.

I know "kickers" aren't really popular anymore, but I just want to get the party started haha.

I have all the support supps covered and Exemestane on hand if needed. I'll be eating just over maintenance and training my ass off to see what happens.

I'm open to dose adjustments, changes in cycle length etc...let me know guys. I'll tag a few of you a I know. I may start a log, not sure yet.

@Smont , @Hyde , @Renew1 , @Alchemist11 , @Mathb33
 
manifesto

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I'll go ahead and list out all of the vitamins and stuff I take daily....

Multivitamin
Vitamin D 10,000iu
Vitamin K2 200mcg
Vitamin C 2000mg
Krill Oil 2/day
Zinc 50 mg
Blackseed Oil 2 tabs/day
Magnesium
Ubiquinol 400mg
Astragalus 4000mg
Citrus Bergamot 1,500 mg
NAC 1200 mg
Liv. 52 2/day
Cialis 5mg

I think that's it
 
Smont

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I don't think your gonna get much criticism on that cycle, honestly I would do exactly the same except I would probably run it longer. 400T/400P should be very low in terms of side effects, and health impact, if around week 8-10 everything was still going good and my bloodwork was fine I'd probably stretch it to 16, if at 16 blood was still good I'd go 20.

Basically what I'm getting at is I wouldn't plan a date to stop, I'd plan a date to get bloods and see if I should stop or continue.

I bet you can stay pretty damn healthy on that cycle for quite a long time if you keep the msten out
 
manifesto

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@Smont do you see any issues having the Stanogen in there as far as DHT goes...im not prone to baldness or anything...

But I just wasn't sure if it would be overkill since Primo is DHT derived
 
Smont

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Would you add in any orals at all?
If I felt like I needed them.

That would be to break through a sticking point like if my strength wasn't going up. Or at the tail end of I needed some cosmetic effect.

Overall orals are usually only good while your on them because we can't really take them long enough to get concrete results. If you take your oral early in the cycle then you get that cosmetic effect that looks like you've made some progress when you really haven't, then you come off the oral for the rest of your cycle and it looks like you're moving backwards, and you're unless you're now so you kind of are moving backwards.

I wouldn't have a planned date that said I'm going to start Orals week 6 or whatever for no reason. I'd wait till I had a reason. But let me ask another question, are there orals that don't screw up your? Cuz if so then maybe use those.

As harsh as ppl say anadrol is and I get it, it can be very for some people. It doesn't screw up my blood work at reasonable dosages so I'd have no problems using it for 8 weeks without feeling worried about my health. In a situation like that you're going to get some muscle growth out of it not just a cosmetic effect because you're on it for 8 weeks.

I would not try that with a designer like msten or SD, at least not unless I e had bloods show me there not fukin **** up.

If your dead set on using a oral for no reason better than you want to add more gear to your cycle then pick something that's not going to screw up your blood work. Or use it right at the end. What if you took it weeks 1 through 4 and it trashed your blood work, are you now going to spend 8 to 10 more weeks running a cycle with your blood markers trashed when you should probably come off? Get what I'm saying
 
Smont

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@Smont do you see any issues having the Stanogen in there as far as DHT goes...im not prone to baldness or anything...

But I just wasn't sure if it would be overkill since Primo is DHT derived
No, go for it. I like the stuff lol and I like stacking dht based steroids because the dht based stuff gives me the least side effects most of the time no side effects at all
 

BBiceps

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I’ve done 2 12-14 weeks cycles of Test/Primo 400/400 and loved both times, the look/feel I get from it is pretty amazing. I finished both with a oral to get a little extra strength in the end, last cycle with a Var/Adrol combo. Good luck, I’m sure you’ll like it.

oh btw, don’t expect a ton of weight gain but what you’ll gain will be quality.
 
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manifesto

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If I felt like I needed them.

That would be to break through a sticking point like if my strength wasn't going up. Or at the tail end of I needed some cosmetic effect.

Overall orals are usually only good while your on them because we can't really take them long enough to get concrete results. If you take your oral early in the cycle then you get that cosmetic effect that looks like you've made some progress when you really haven't, then you come off the oral for the rest of your cycle and it looks like you're moving backwards, and you're unless you're now so you kind of are moving backwards.

I wouldn't have a planned date that said I'm going to start Orals week 6 or whatever for no reason. I'd wait till I had a reason. But let me ask another question, are there orals that don't screw up your? Cuz if so then maybe use those.

As harsh as ppl say anadrol is and I get it, it can be very for some people. It doesn't screw up my blood work at reasonable dosages so I'd have no problems using it for 8 weeks without feeling worried about my health. In a situation like that you're going to get some muscle growth out of it not just a cosmetic effect because you're on it for 8 weeks.

I would not try that with a designer like msten or SD, at least not unless I e had bloods show me there not fukin **** up.

If your dead set on using a oral for no reason better than you want to add more gear to your cycle then pick something that's not going to screw up your blood work. Or use it right at the end. What if you took it weeks 1 through 4 and it trashed your blood work, are you now going to spend 8 to 10 more weeks running a cycle with your blood markers trashed when you should probably come off? Get what I'm saying
Yeah that makes a ton of sense...I really like the idea of running a much longer test and primo cycle and monitoring bloodwork along the way... thats one reason I have strayed away from orals. I don't like not knowing what's going on inside me

Like "****...I wonder if my hdl is screwed...I wonder how my liver values are.. .." etc etc
 
Renew1

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Im on TRT. I'm 6'00 195lbs not sure on body fat, but I have visible abs and pretty athletic physique. I'm looking to add some lean muscle, and recomp some.

Not interesting in bulking or getting sloppy. This will only be my 2nd cycle. The first was 400mg test cyp for 12 weeks. I used an AI for some of that run, but with bloodwork, determined I did not aromatize very much. This is my proposed next cycle.

Week 1-12
Test Cypionate 400mg
Primo Enanthate 400mg (legit source)
600 mg injectable L-Carnitine/ daily
200-300mg Stanogen occasionally

I am considering adding msten (20-30) weeks 8-12, or possibly at the beginning of the cycle.

I know "kickers" aren't really popular anymore, but I just want to get the party started haha.

I have all the support supps covered and Exemestane on hand if needed. I'll be eating just over maintenance and training my ass off to see what happens.

I'm open to dose adjustments, changes in cycle length etc...let me know guys. I'll tag a few of you a I know. I may start a log, not sure yet.

@Smont , @Hyde , @Renew1 , @Alchemist11 , @Mathb33
Man ....
It's Really nice to see someone put in the work to research what they're doing before hand.

@Smont is giving you pretty good advice IMO.
Personally, if you decide to keep an oral in the cycle, I'd probably switch out for something like Tbol, and run it at the end.
I'd extend it to (probably, depending upon how the cycle goes) 16:weeks.

If you decide to log it, I'll definitely follow!
 
Smont

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Man ....
It's Really nice to see someone put in the work to research what they're doing before hand.

@Smont is giving you pretty good advice IMO.
Personally, if you decide to keep an oral in the cycle, I'd probably switch out for something like Tbol, and run it at the end.
I'd extend it to (probably, depending upon how the cycle goes) 16:weeks.

If you decide to log it, I'll definitely follow!
Right lol, when I opened the thread and read his post I was almost confused, I was like..... Wait, where's all the crazy stuff at thats gonna help him gain 80lbs. Where's the Reinvented wheel and all the secret protocols that no1 has ever tried before lol.

His plan is solid, he could do it exactly as planned, he could do it twice as long give. Nothing goes wrong. I can't really complain about anything.

Low dose test primo or test mast is going to be as safe as it gets. I had just recently started 300 test/200mast but then someone sneazed on me and gave me da covids and flicked up my plans lol
 
khall1974

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Was wondering guys...are you guys on doctor or self prescribed trt??
 
Smont

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Was wondering guys...are you guys on doctor or self prescribed trt??
I put myself on trt mainly because I don't wanna pct, I'm actually at the point where I think pct is foolish and you should cruise on trt until you no longer plan on using steroids, non of this yo-yo up and down with my hormones.. I had a dr. Helping me initially as we are friends and he was interested but now I'm 100% self prescribed and self monitored. And honestly, I will probably never come off, I look testosterone now as a tool to be supercharged and going back to real trt doses as a means of normalcy and to keep health markers in check. The only thing about trt I don't like is all the flukin YouTubers lieing and telling ppl that a real trt dose of test is going to pack on muscle and make you look like a bodybuilder. It's fucked up and bullshit
 
khall1974

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I put myself on trt mainly because I don't wanna pct, I'm actually at the point where I think pct is foolish and you should cruise on trt until you no longer plan on using steroids, non of this yo-yo up and down with my hormones.. I had a dr. Helping me initially as we are friends and he was interested but now I'm 100% self prescribed and self monitored. And honestly, I will probably never come off, I look testosterone now as a tool to be supercharged and going back to real trt doses as a means of normalcy and to keep health markers in check. The only thing about trt I don't like is all the flukin YouTubers lieing and telling ppl that a real trt dose of test is going to pack on muscle and make you look like a bodybuilder. It's fucked up and bullshit
At 47 pct is getting harder and harder. I wouldn't mind self prescribed and I know the fallacy of trt being the something that it isn't. My biggest fear when making that choice is finding a steady source if self prescribed.
 
Renew1

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"YouTubers lieing and telling ppl that a real trt dose of test is going to pack on muscle and make you look like a bodybuilder."

^^^ Yep. Fiction. ^^^
 
Smont

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"YouTubers lieing and telling ppl that a real trt dose of test is going to pack on muscle and make you look like a bodybuilder."

^^^ Yep. Fiction. ^^^
Grams upon grams won't make you look like a bodybuilder without bodybuilder genetics and living a bodybuilder lifestyle.

But trt, gonna get you huge son.
 
Smont

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At 47 pct is getting harder and harder. I wouldn't mind self prescribed and I know the fallacy of trt being the something that it isn't. My biggest fear when making that choice is finding a steady source if self prescribed.
I have thought about that. Best have a couple sources and Keep some HCG and clomid stashed away for a emergency.
 
Smont

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At 47 pct is getting harder and harder. I wouldn't mind self prescribed and I know the fallacy of trt being the something that it isn't. My biggest fear when making that choice is finding a steady source if self prescribed.
Or...... Run a cycle and come off cold turkey, no pct. Wait till you know your testosterone's crashed and make an appointment with your doctor 😁
 
Smont

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Or worst case scenario send your tanked bloodwork to a Florida trt clinic. Most of the clinics down in Florida will prescribe anything lol
There was a guy on the boards the other day talking about his clinic said he qualified for anavar.... really, you got a anavar deficiency lol
 

BBiceps

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Or worst case scenario send your tanked bloodwork to a Florida trt clinic. Most of the clinics down in Florida will prescribe anything lol
There was a guy on the boards the other day talking about his clinic said he qualified for anavar.... really, you got a anavar deficiency lol
You don’t need a clinic for that, find the right Dr and you’ll be surprised with what you can get.
 
Smont

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You don’t need a clinic for that, find the right Dr and you’ll be surprised with what you can get.
Oh I bet. We got a family friend who's a Dr. He will regularly ask us if we need anything, I'm not talking about hardcore drugs like pain killers but if there's something he can help with he will.

I can only imagine what some others are willing to do. Especially if there profiting off it.
 
Renew1

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"YouTubers lieing and telling ppl that a real trt dose of test is going to pack on muscle and make you look like a bodybuilder."

T Replacement T
H Replacement T

Seems like a simple enough concept.
Apparently not so easy for some.

LOL.

Fixt
 
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manifesto

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Was wondering guys...are you guys on doctor or self prescribed trt??
I'm prescribed through insurance, but I stock a little extra for the occasional blast.
 
manifesto

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I definitely have a primo deficiency
 
Alchemist11

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Im on TRT. I'm 6'00 195lbs not sure on body fat, but I have visible abs and pretty athletic physique. I'm looking to add some lean muscle, and recomp some.

Not interesting in bulking or getting sloppy. This will only be my 2nd cycle. The first was 400mg test cyp for 12 weeks. I used an AI for some of that run, but with bloodwork, determined I did not aromatize very much. This is my proposed next cycle.

Week 1-12
Test Cypionate 400mg
Primo Enanthate 400mg (legit source)
600 mg injectable L-Carnitine/ daily
200-300mg Stanogen occasionally

I am considering adding msten (20-30) weeks 8-12, or possibly at the beginning of the cycle.

I know "kickers" aren't really popular anymore, but I just want to get the party started haha.

I have all the support supps covered and Exemestane on hand if needed. I'll be eating just over maintenance and training my ass off to see what happens.

I'm open to dose adjustments, changes in cycle length etc...let me know guys. I'll tag a few of you a I know. I may start a log, not sure yet.

@Smont , @Hyde , @Renew1 , @Alchemist11 , @Mathb33
I think you'll have a nice and smooth cycle with this layout. You should log it
 

sammpedd88

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Im on TRT. I'm 6'00 195lbs not sure on body fat, but I have visible abs and pretty athletic physique. I'm looking to add some lean muscle, and recomp some.

Not interesting in bulking or getting sloppy. This will only be my 2nd cycle. The first was 400mg test cyp for 12 weeks. I used an AI for some of that run, but with bloodwork, determined I did not aromatize very much. This is my proposed next cycle.

Week 1-12
Test Cypionate 400mg
Primo Enanthate 400mg (legit source)
600 mg injectable L-Carnitine/ daily
200-300mg Stanogen occasionally

I am considering adding msten (20-30) weeks 8-12, or possibly at the beginning of the cycle.

I know "kickers" aren't really popular anymore, but I just want to get the party started haha.

I have all the support supps covered and Exemestane on hand if needed. I'll be eating just over maintenance and training my ass off to see what happens.

I'm open to dose adjustments, changes in cycle length etc...let me know guys. I'll tag a few of you a I know. I may start a log, not sure yet.

@Smont , @Hyde , @Renew1 , @Alchemist11 , @Mathb33
Stupid question….are you going to run 400 mgs of test cyp on top of your TRT dose or does the 400 mgs include that?
 
manifesto

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Lol that’s why I prefaced it with the “stupid question”. I’ve been on TRT for about 9 years and have never blasted or done cycles. Just trying to educate myself.
Hey brother, I normally run TRT at 200mg/week, so I'm just going to bump it up to 400mg.

I am very fortunate that my estradiol stays pretty much in range at this dose and no AI required. I've test 'Ultra sensitive Estradiol' several times and confirmed it.
 
Smont

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Lol that’s why I prefaced it with the “stupid question”. I’ve been on TRT for about 9 years and have never blasted or done cycles. Just trying to educate myself.
Lol, when someone says what there taking its typically the total. I'm always waiting for good opportunities to use Dr. Steve Brule's confused face
 

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Lol, when someone says what there taking its typically the total. I'm always waiting for good opportunities to use Dr. Steve Brule's confused face
. I appreciate it man. I figured it was but wasn’t sure.
 

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Hey brother, I normally run TRT at 200mg/week, so I'm just going to bump it up to 400mg.

I am very fortunate that my estradiol stays pretty much in range at this dose and no AI required. I've test 'Ultra sensitive Estradiol' several times and confirmed it.
Thanks bro. You’re lucky on the E2 side. I have to take an AI with 120 mgs a week. I take .25 mgs twice a week of arimidex.
 
manifesto

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Yeah, when I first started TRT I was taking an AI because I didn't know any better and I didn't know how I would aromatize...it really lowered my HDL...
 
manifesto

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Which I didn't like
 

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Yeah, when I first started TRT I was taking an AI because I didn't know any better and I didn't know how I would aromatize...it really lowered my HDL...
Yeah my HDL rides right on the low side of the in range scale. I tried to cut my AI back a few months ago. When I had my labs done my E2 was through the roof.
 
manifesto

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Yeah my HDL rides right on the low side of the in range scale. I tried to cut my AI back a few months ago. When I had my labs done my E2 was through the roof.
Are you using Exemestane or Arimidex?
 
Hyde

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If you aren’t specifically cutting, 200mg per day of carnitine is totally sufficient for all of the great stuff background stuff it does like making your gear work better.

BOOM: I just made your carnitine stash triple in size.

I mean if you want to lay down a huge cheat day, or pushing a huge recovery shot of glutathione, or are doing fasted cardio in the morning but also say heavy strength training in the evening, there are times when you may want to utilize larger daily dosages, but generally 600/day is way more than you will need.
 
manifesto

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If you aren’t specifically cutting, 200mg per day of carnitine is totally sufficient for all of the great stuff background stuff it does like making your gear work better.

BOOM: I just made your carnitine stash triple in size.

I mean if you want to lay down a huge cheat day, or pushing a huge recovery shot of glutathione, or are doing fasted cardio in the morning but also say heavy strength training in the evening, there are times when you may want to utilize larger daily dosages, but generally 600/day is way more than you will need.
I appreciate that brother...ive been doing 600 for a while...I would like to save a little coin.

When you say "if you want to lay down a huge cheat day"....are you saying the l-carnitine helps with nutrient partioning? I didn't know that
 
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I appreciate that brother...ive been doing 600 for a while...I would like to save a little coin.

When you say "if you want to lay down a huge cheat day"....are you saying the l-carnitine helps with nutrient partioning? I didn't know that
Try 200mg now generally then daily when you go on blast. Your peak levels will certainly be built up already, so you won’t need as much to maintain them, and using more above the basal maintenance level is really only for the acute effects.

Yes, l-carnitine increases glycogen storage and drives some background anabolism & recovery cascades. It also needs sodium and insulin to shuttle & be shuttled optimally, so it’s a great opportunity in the day to pin it - generally, use it subcutaneously any time it’s not immediately pre/postWO. Or if you were literally at the table for the cheat meal at home with the food in front of you, I would use IM, but if you were going into the restaurant I would do subq in the car.
 
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I appreciate that brother...ive been doing 600 for a while...I would like to save a little coin.

When you say "if you want to lay down a huge cheat day"....are you saying the l-carnitine helps with nutrient partioning? I didn't know that
Try 200mg now generally then daily when you go on blast. Your peak levels will certainly be built up already, so you won’t need as much to maintain them, and using more above the basal maintenance level is really only for the acute effects.

Yes, l-carnitine increases glycogen storage and drives some background anabolism & recovery cascades. It also needs sodium and insulin to shuttle & be shuttled optimally, so it’s a great opportunity in the day to pin it - generally, use it subcutaneously any time it’s not immediately pre/postWO. Or if you were literally at the table for the cheat meal at home with the food in front of you, I would use IM, but if you were going into the restaurant I would do subq in the car.
 
manifesto

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Try 200mg now generally then daily when you go on blast. Your peak levels will certainly be built up already, so you won’t need as much to maintain them, and using more above the basal maintenance level is really only for the acute effects.

Yes, l-carnitine increases glycogen storage and drives some background anabolism & recovery cascades. It also needs sodium and insulin to shuttle & be shuttled optimally, so it’s a great opportunity in the day to pin it - generally, use it subcutaneously any time it’s not immediately pre/postWO. Or if you were literally at the table for the cheat meal at home with the food in front of you, I would use IM, but if you were going into the restaurant I would do subq in the car.
Nice, I'm at home with Taco Bell....so I pinned 600mg and crushed some Chalupas
 
manifesto

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Just took some Cardarine 2.0 pre workout...holy crap...felt like I could've stayed there all day
 
manifesto

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This was me pre workout stack

2 ml Stanogen
1 scoop Guerilla Mode prewo
300mg injectable L-Carnitine
10mg Cardarine 2.0
 
manifesto

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It's from Supreme Labs...a slightly different chemical structure than normal Cardarine

I'm not really sure the difference lol
 
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