Cutting game plan critique

u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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Age : 22
Gender : Male
Height : 5’8
Weight : 71kg
Bf% : 11-12%
BMR (boditrax scan) : ~1850 kcal
Maintenance (calculated with a formula) : 2212 kcal

For the last four months I’ve been consuming 2512kcal (maintenance +300), consisting of P200 F88.7 C227.95 or
P150 F88.7 C277.95 on workout days. Then 1712kcal (maintenance -500), consisting of P150 F57 C149.6 on rest days.
I had been training four to six days a week.

I would like to start cutting for summer now.

The game plan is:
- to train four days a week, continuing to carb-cycle.
- three days a week I’ll eat at maintenance
- one day a week I’ll eat at maintenance +300 kcal
- three days a week I’ll eat at maintenance -500 kcal

The weekly calorie total is [(maintenance x7) - 1200]

So I have three questions

- whilst carb cycling, on low carb days should you eat
[maintenance -500kcal] or [BMR -500kcal]?
- at 11-12% bodyfat should I make that [maintenance +300 day] a refeed day instead?
- did anything come to mind as you read my game plan?
 
Whisky

Whisky

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At 71kgs and 11% I wouldn’t be cutting. Won’t be anything left of you by summer.....
 
The Solution

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If your calories are that low before cutting you are going to be pushing them very low. i mean 1700 before dieting on an off day is pretty darn low

Unless you are doing a show or a photoshoot there would be 0 need to diet in your current shoes. I would focus on raising your calories much higher and getting your metabolism as high as possible with minimal cardio. This will allow for flexibility when dieting to add cardio or make caloric deductions and keeping your metabolism in a good place.

Have you got any bloodwork done in your current state? Dieting will aonly impair t3, leptin, testosterone, and hormone levels. If you were to diet and bloodwork is off there would only make a case for things to only dwindle.

I would advise against cutting at that BW and BF % and focus on building your frame if that is your current physique (avatar) you would turn into a skeleton.
 

Resolve10

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If your calories are that low before cutting you are going to be pushing them very low. i mean 1700 before dieting on an off day is pretty darn low

Unless you are doing a show or a photoshoot there would be 0 need to diet in your current shoes. I would focus on raising your calories much higher and getting your metabolism as high as possible with minimal cardio. This will allow for flexibility when dieting to add cardio or make caloric deductions and keeping your metabolism in a good place.

Have you got any bloodwork done in your current state? Dieting will aonly impair t3, leptin, testosterone, and hormone levels. If you were to diet and bloodwork is off there would only make a case for things to only dwindle.

I would advise against cutting at that BW and BF % and focus on building your frame if that is your current physique (avatar) you would turn into a skeleton.
I’d say this man. Not that I like to tell people to re evaluate the goals but I agree it will be rough to cut at those levels and if you are truly 11% you may be better served eating a bit more, slowly building, and getting that caloric intake to hold at a higher level.

Also kinda notsrs but I hope you aren’t measuring your calories out that exact it kind of hurt my soul reading such precise numbers.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

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I’d say this man. Not that I like to tell people to re evaluate the goals but I agree it will be rough to cut at those levels and if you are truly 11% you may be better served eating a bit more, slowly building, and getting that caloric intake to hold at a higher level.

Also kinda notsrs but I hope you aren’t measuring your calories out that exact it kind of hurt my soul reading such precise numbers.
Haha. That hundredth of a calorie precision.
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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If your calories are that low before cutting you are going to be pushing them very low. i mean 1700 before dieting on an off day is pretty darn low

Unless you are doing a show or a photoshoot there would be 0 need to diet in your current shoes. I would focus on raising your calories much higher and getting your metabolism as high as possible with minimal cardio. This will allow for flexibility when dieting to add cardio or make caloric deductions and keeping your metabolism in a good place.

Have you got any bloodwork done in your current state? Dieting will aonly impair t3, leptin, testosterone, and hormone levels. If you were to diet and bloodwork is off there would only make a case for things to only dwindle.

I would advise against cutting at that BW and BF % and focus on building your frame if that is your current physique (avatar) you would turn into a skeleton.
The thinking behind starting the cut now is so that ideally I’ll get down to 7-8% by the start of May and then from there I’ll lean bulk into the summer. I figure that this way, the caloric surplus I’ll be eating at for a few weeks going into the summer will help me have a more desirable hormonal profile at the start of the summer than if I were to spend the weeks leading up to the summer at a caloric deficit.
I like going to festivals and stuff with friends during the summer and having more desirable t3, leptin, testosterone and overall hormonal levels would help me enjoy the summer more (the difference may be subtle but...).
Starting the cut early would also allow me to cut at a slower pace and I could probably get stronger whilst I’m cutting.

I’d prefer finishing my cut early and being able to lean bulk into and through the summer, to finding myself not as lean as I’d like to be at the start of the summer and end up cutting leading up to and then during the start of the summer
 
muscleupcrohn

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Why bother cutting down to 7-8% though? You’ll just end up losing some muscle getting to that low level, when you could just do a bit more moderate of a transition or bulk spread over time instead.

Getting to 7% if you’re not competing or doing a photo shoot is silly.
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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I’d say this man. Not that I like to tell people to re evaluate the goals but I agree it will be rough to cut at those levels and if you are truly 11% you may be better served eating a bit more, slowly building, and getting that caloric intake to hold at a higher level.

Also kinda notsrs but I hope you aren’t measuring your calories out that exact it kind of hurt my soul reading such precise numbers.
I think 2200 is about where maintenance is for me. I’ve probably been averaging about 2400 kcal a day (I’ve been giving myself a bit of leeway) for the last four months and have steadily gained weight.

Haha I just copy and pasted those numbers from my notes. I leave my macros with decimals so that if I need to review them then everything will add up.
 
The Solution

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I like going to festivals and stuff with friends during the summer and having more desirable t3, leptin, testosterone and overall hormonal levels would help me enjoy the summer more (the difference may be subtle but...).
Starting the cut early would also allow me to cut at a slower pace and I could probably get stronger whilst I’m cutting.

Both of these are incorrect.. especially eating 2200-1700 calories a day. That is not a lot of food, and you don't need to cut at 11%, but your mind is already made up so no matter what anyone says in here it wont alter the outcome.

I’d prefer finishing my cut early and being able to lean bulk into and through the summer, to finding myself not as lean as I’d like to be at the start of the summer and end up cutting leading up to and then during the start of the summer
You can lean bulk now. If you truly look how you do in your avatar, cutting down is not only stupid you will be eating around what 1700 - 1200 calories daily? That is like Bikini chick level status getting ready for a show. There is NO WAY in hell you are going to be gaining strength on calories like that.

The only thing left of you at a festival will be skin and bones, and not much muscle at all. If you truly want to get to that low of BF you are going to lose muscle and you won't continue to build muscle.

Why bother cutting down to 7-8% though? You’ll just end up losing some muscle getting to that low level, when you could just do a bit more moderate of a transition or bulk spread over time instead.

Getting to 7% if you’re not competing or doing a photo shoot is silly.
Its not healthy,
not optimal for your health
but somehow OP Thinks he can gain strength trying to get to those levels.
Unless you want to take some great gear to help you maintain strength as a natural it truly just wont happen
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

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You can lean bulk now. If you truly look how you do in your avatar, cutting down is not only stupid you will be eating around what 1700 - 1200 calories daily? That is like Bikini chick level status getting ready for a show. There is NO WAY in hell you are going to be gaining strength on calories like that.

The only thing left of you at a festival will be skin and bones, and not much muscle at all. If you truly want to get to that low of BF you are going to lose muscle and you won't continue to build muscle.



Its not healthy,
not optimal for your health
but somehow OP Thinks he can gain strength trying to get to those levels.
Unless you want to take some great gear to help you maintain strength as a natural it truly just wont happen
Yeah, and if you want to use gear, use it to put on some muscle at that weight.
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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You can lean bulk now. If you truly look how you do in your avatar, cutting down is not only stupid you will be eating around what 1700 - 1200 calories daily? That is like Bikini chick level status getting ready for a show. There is NO WAY in hell you are going to be gaining strength on calories like that.

The only thing left of you at a festival will be skin and bones, and not much muscle at all. If you truly want to get to that low of BF you are going to lose muscle and you won't continue to build muscle.



Its not healthy,
not optimal for your health
but somehow OP Thinks he can gain strength trying to get to those levels.
Unless you want to take some great gear to help you maintain strength as a natural it truly just wont happen
You misread what I said

Maintenance for me is at 2200-2300 kcal.
I’m planning on eating 1700, 2250 & 2500-2700 kcal on low-cal, maintenance and refeeding days

My profile pic’s from a year ago when I was at 8-9% bodyfat. The area around my ribs is extra lean for some reason. My ribs are visible even at 17% bodyfat.
I’ve tried to update my profile pic but couldn’t because the site’s buggy for me

https://imgur.com/gallery/qKlnIy7
These are a few recent photos at 10-13% bodyfat
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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I intend on staying natural until I’m at least 40 at which point I’m planning to hop on TRT and may add in a little gear on top
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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Last time I cut I was eating 1650-2200 kcal a day and got stronger during that time ����*♂
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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As for why 7-8%, I’ve been told that professional athletes are often at 7-9% and so surely that’s not too low. Also in collations I’ve seen people usually say that the cut summer look is 7-9% bf
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

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Strong legs in that pic. Your profile pic just didn’t show size well lol. You look substantially bigger in all the other pics than in that one.

And for every professional athlete that claims to be at 7% body fat, maybe 1 in 5 really is.
 
The Solution

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You misread what I said

Maintenance for me is at 2200-2300 kcal.
I’m planning on eating 1700, 2250
cutting down is not only stupid you will be eating around what 1700 - 1200 calories daily?

The only thing left of you at a festival will be skin and bones, and not much muscle at all. If you truly want to get to that low of BF you are going to lose muscle and you won't continue to build muscle.



Its not healthy,
not optimal for your health
but somehow OP Thinks he can gain strength trying to get to those levels.
Unless you want to take some great gear to help you maintain strength as a natural it truly just wont happen
No I did not mis-read
Look at what your eating now, 1700-2200
yet last time you were eating the same amount, so tell me how are you going to keep your intake the same and lose 4-5% bodyfat from what you are eating now If that is what you consider "Maintenance"

now you want to diet off those calories meaning they will have to drop....
If you really want to lose 4-5% more BF you will be eating around 1500ish daily (factoring non and workout) calories towards the end of your diet

And you are telling us you may GAIN STRENGTH doing this?
if that was the case everyone who competes in natural bodybuilding should get stronger on a contest prep and when they step on stage. But I have yet to see that hold true for a large majority of people who want to get that lean.
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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Strong legs in that pic. Your profile pic just didn’t show size well lol. You look substantially bigger in all the other pics than in that one.

And for every professional athlete that claims to be at 7% body fat, maybe 1 in 5 really is.
Haha thank you. I’ve maxed out the leg extension and leg curling machines at my gym and only started training upper legs a bit over a year ago

My profile pic’s from a year ago, I haven’t been able to update it due a bug on the site
 

Resolve10

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I think 2200 is about where maintenance is for me. I’ve probably been averaging about 2400 kcal a day (I’ve been giving myself a bit of leeway) for the last four months and have steadily gained weight.

Haha I just copy and pasted those numbers from my notes. I leave my macros with decimals so that if I need to review them then everything will add up.
Seeing the pics you already look pretty shredded and I feel upping things would be fine.

That said it’s your decision and if things have been working for you keep going and go forward with your current plan. I don’t see anything glaringly wrong with your carb cycling approach I was just looking out for you since I know I’d struggle cutting with that little!

Good luck!
 
EMPIREMIND

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Have you thought about keeping your current maintenance diet as is and just adding in a 24hr fasting day once a week. According to everything I have been reading it should actually increase your metabolism and will give you a nice caloric drop each week. Just a thought...

On the other hand I see a lot of merit in what the solution has told you. You are already in great shape, I would think you should try and reverse diet to get your cals higher, maintaining your current condition.

But if your heart is set on cutting, maybe try the 24 hr fast, and don’t drop those calories any lower than your maintenance... like I said just a thought
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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No I did not mis-read
Look at what your eating now, 1700-2200
yet last time you were eating the same amount, so tell me how are you going to keep your intake the same and lose 4-5% bodyfat from what you are eating now If that is what you consider "Maintenance"

now you want to diet off those calories meaning they will have to drop....
If you really want to lose 4-5% more BF you will be eating around 1500ish daily (factoring non and workout) calories towards the end of your diet

And you are telling us you may GAIN STRENGTH doing this?
if that was the case everyone who competes in natural bodybuilding should get stronger on a contest prep and when they step on stage. But I have yet to see that hold true for a large majority of people who want to get that lean.
No, in recent months I’ve been eating 2500-2600 four days a week and 1700 three days a week. In October and November I was eating 1900 and 2700-2800. I’ve been lenient on calorie intake (as in I’ve let myself eat more than planned on days when I’m eating out or particularly hungry) and have been gaining weight steadily. Since September I’m up from 9-10% to ~12%.

The devil’s In the details as I’m planning on going from
2500-2600 four days a week (maintenance+300)
1600-1700 three days a week (maintenance -500)
To
2500-2600 one day a week
2200-2300 three days a week (maintenance)
1600-1700 three days a week

So I’ll be reducing weekly calories by about 900 kcal
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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Have you thought about keeping your current maintenance diet as is and just adding in a 24hr fasting day once a week. According to everything I have been reading it should actually increase your metabolism and will give you a nice caloric drop each week. Just a thought...

On the other hand I see a lot of merit in what the solution has told you. You are already in great shape, I would think you should try and reverse diet to get your cals higher, maintaining your current condition.

But if your heart is set on cutting, maybe try the 24 hr fast, and don’t drop those calories any lower than your maintenance... like I said just a thought
I’ll give the 24hr fasting some thought man and thank you.
The thing with my metabolism is that I’ve been gaining weight steadily since September and so I’m pretty certain that my metabolism’s about as high as it could be naturally and I reverse dieted back in september to get my metabolism back up and running so I don’t think it’d be beneficial right now
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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Seeing the pics you already look pretty shredded and I feel upping things would be fine.

That said it’s your decision and if things have been working for you keep going and go forward with your current plan. I don’t see anything glaringly wrong with your carb cycling approach I was just looking out for you since I know I’d struggle cutting with that little!

Good luck!

Thanks dude!
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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Oh and about my bf claims, I use a boditrax machine. These have a 2.5% margin for error on bf estimates and so I do a few scans over the course of a week or two and use the average of those readings

They’re a big company and a lot of gyms in the U.K. have them so I’m not sceptical of their readings
 

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Question. Are you eating the same amount of fat on a high carb, and low carb day?
I've found my body Gaines fat no matter the calories if I combined fats and carbs.

When I do keto or carb cycle to burn fat, I have very little fats on refeed days. Also this way I barely add fat while bulking, and I'm not nearly as calculated on my diet.
 

Ase_james

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Why bother cutting down to 7-8% though? You’ll just end up losing some muscle getting to that low level, when you could just do a bit more moderate of a transition or bulk spread over time instead.

Getting to 7% if you’re not competing or doing a photo shoot is silly.
Totally agree, I don't compete and stop dieting as soon as I feel like I'm in the 12 range, or I loose a good amount of muscle.
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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Question. Are you eating the same amount of fat on a high carb, and low carb day?
I've found my body Gaines fat no matter the calories if I combined fats and carbs.

When I do keto or carb cycle to burn fat, I have very little fats on refeed days. Also this way I barely add fat while bulking, and I'm not nearly as calculated on my diet.
I do high cal, medium cal and low cal days. On high and medium calorie day’s I eat some more fat than on low cal days but try to eat less fat than my quota. On low cal days I consume the minimum advisable amount of fat you should consume on any given day which is 30% of maintenance.

On refeeds my biggest rule is to stay away or heavily restrict the portion sizes of high fat foods because to most of us they’re surprisingly calorie dense

Tbh it’s likely that either you were underestimating your calorie intake when you were counting or your body is particularly sensitive to meal timings for one reason or another.
I read some research which found that the average American on a diet underestimates their calorie intake by like 20% or something.
The thing with sources of carbs, proteins and fats is that the major of tasty carbs and protein sources come with some fat. Even breads like focaccia, flatbreads and naans come with some fat. Most beef and lamb sources contain a surprisingly large amount of fat, even well trimmed. The fat that these things contribute can quickly and slyly add up. If they contribute just 20g more than you account for, that 180kcal
 
u_e_s_i

u_e_s_i

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Totally agree, I don't compete and stop dieting as soon as I feel like I'm in the 12 range, or I loose a good amount of muscle.
Personally I think I look better at 8-9% than I do at 11-13% and judging by reactions I think that people tend to agree
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

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Personally I think I look better at 8-9% than I do at 11-13% and judging by reactions I think that people tend to agree
Sure, but my point was that it can be harder for a lot of people to maintain that leanness for a meaningful period of time while feeling good and/or not losing muscle. I’m sure I’d look better at 8% than 10%, but I’d rather get bigger, even if that means going up to 12%, then cutting down to 8% when I feel I’m sufficiently big, and look better than I would have if I just stayed at 8% the whole time.

To each his own though. :)
 
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