Clomid during cycle for PH and Sarms?

[Smont]

With sarms, you don't need a test base necessarily, but you might want something that creates estrogen. Running sarms only will eventually shut down test and estrogen. The sarms can fill some of the test roles but not the estrogen roles. I've actually seen some stuff on ppl running sarms with exogenous estrogen and having very successful cycles. I'm not a science guy so I can't get too deep but look into it. Adding some test or trest or really anything that converts to estrogen will help. But something like epiandro will not. Clomid definitely will not. Dermacrine applied to the abdomen is supposed to have a higher estrogen conversion. 4 andro will have estrogen conversion ect.

 

[Smont]

Oral dhea converts to estrodiol at significant rate. I WOULD NOT take more than 300 mg daily.

You want estrogen with the sarms. Dhea is probably his best bet till he can get something better

 

[Smont]

I stopped reading halfway through this thread but a lot of you don't understand that sarm cycles have big differences then steroids and prohormones cycles on how to run them successful. Some things are the same but the things necessary on a typical cycle don't all apply and there's other ways to make them work that cannot be applied to a steroid cycle

 

[Smont]

Also, Stano Xt looks terrible. Just run real epiandrosterone at 900mg or so if you’re going to do that, “real” stano.

Epiandro added to that sarm cycle will completely kill estrogen and probably stop his junk from working.

 

[dvw]

4 dhea transdermal works very well for this purpose. It converts to testosterone & estrodiol

 

[xam2991]

Epiandro added to that sarm cycle will completely kill estrogen and probably stop his junk from working.

Yeah that’s a possibility. This is why oral only cycles suck. Test is best. 4andro can’t begin to compare. If I were doing oral only, I would go for Epi-Andro over 4andro though. Better aggression and dryness.

 

[Smont]

Yeah that’s a possibility. This is why oral only cycles suck. Test is best. 4andro can’t begin to compare. If I were doing oral only, I would go for Epi-Andro over 4andro though. Better aggression and dryness.

The problem there is that he is only running sarms. Which will eventually shut down testosterone and leave you with no estrogen. Epiandro will be another compound that won't convert to testosterone or estrogen. Your gonna need some estrogen here for multiple functions. While 4 andro is crap at conversion to test, it's not really the test he needs here. It will also convert to estrogen and between the sarms and estrogen you can probably cover most of the basis for mental and sexual functions on cycle and build muscle better then the sarms only.

 

[Smont]

Yeah that’s a possibility. This is why oral only cycles suck. Test is best. 4andro can’t begin to compare. If I were doing oral only, I would go for Epi-Andro over 4andro though. Better aggression and dryness.

But a simple shot of test would also do the trick

 

[xam2991]

But a simple shot of test would also do the trick

Yes, test is best. I agree.

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

I got my hands on pharm grade clomid. 15 50mg tablets my friend gave me to me for free. Could I use this for my pct at least taking 25 mg for 4 weeks?

 

[Smont]

I got my hands on pharm grade clomid. 15 50mg tablets my friend gave me to me for free. Could I use this for my pct at least taking 25 mg for 4 weeks?

Yep

 

[Dunamis1]

I got my hands on pharm grade clomid. 15 50mg tablets my friend gave me to me for free. Could I use this for my pct at least taking 25 mg for 4 weeks?

If that's all you have then yea. I like 75/50/25/25 with the first few days frontloading at 100mg, but 25 for 4 should work fine.

 

[Dunamis1]

But a simple shot of test would also do the trick

Agree. Androtest is a solid po option for those afraid of needles. Been running it for 1 week now at 500mg/day as a base and it definitely seems to be legit 4-Androstenediol. I've ran 4dhea before at the same mg and it was weaker for sure. The real down side of 4ad or 4dhea as test bases are that they have a short half life. something like 4-5hrs. That kinda sucks.

 

[Dunamis1]

The problem there is that he is only running sarms. Which will eventually shut down testosterone and leave you with no estrogen. Epiandro will be another compound that won't convert to testosterone or estrogen. Your gonna need some estrogen here for multiple functions. While 4 andro is crap at conversion to test, it's not really the test he needs here. It will also convert to estrogen and between the sarms and estrogen you can probably cover most of the basis for mental and sexual functions on cycle and build muscle better then the sarms only.

I wonder how a low dose dbol + SARM cycle would go? Dbol is cheap, would give you estrogen, and make you feel good. Stacked with a quality SARM at a good dose it could be a cool cycle experiment....

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

I wonder how a low dose dbol + SARM cycle would go? Dbol is cheap, would give you estrogen, and make you feel good. Stacked with a quality SARM at a good dose it could be a cool cycle experiment....

Sounds interesting definitely. After this cycle though I'll be running real gear once I move, I'll have the hookup on everything. Thinking of doing the classic test + deca but I here too much about the severe side effects like gyno compared to other gear.

Maybe I should run arimistane too with the clomid or month before current cycle.

Going to doctor tomorrow and seeing about a hcg shot or some androgel.

 

[Renew1]

I ..uhh.. hmm.
I'd be careful what all you do right now man, until you get your head wrapped around how this all works.

 

[Smont]

I wonder how a low dose dbol + SARM cycle would go? Dbol is cheap, would give you estrogen, and make you feel good. Stacked with a quality SARM at a good dose it could be a cool cycle experiment....

It could absolutely work and would probably work well. Everyone seems to forget that dbol was prescribed and used for trt for a long time

 

[Smont]

Sounds interesting definitely. After this cycle though I'll be running real gear once I move, I'll have the hookup on everything. Thinking of doing the classic test + deca but I here too much about the severe side effects like gyno compared to other gear.

Maybe I should run arimistane too with the clomid or month before current cycle.

Going to doctor tomorrow and seeing about a hcg shot or some androgel.

Arimistane don't raise testosterone or lower estrogen very much if any at all, idk what country you live in but I don't think you can just ask your doc for hcg or androgel

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

I ..uhh.. hmm.
I'd be careful what all you do right now man, until you get your head wrapped around how this all works.

Honestly I think if I run real gear it might be healthier than the side effects with s23 to an extent. Not in a rush, will take my time and see how the recovery is a couple months after done with this Sarms cycle. Get blood work done etc.

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

I ..uhh.. hmm.
I'd be careful what all you do right now man, until you get your head wrapped around how this all works.

Honestly I think if I run real gear it might be healthier than the side effects with s23 to an extent. Not in a rush, will take my time and see how the recovery is a couple months after done with this Sarms cycle. Get blood work done etc.

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

Arimistane don't raise testosterone or lower estrogen very much if any at all, idk what country you live in but I don't think you can just ask your doc for hcg or androgel

Why can't you ask a doctor for hcg or androgel if your test is low?

Last time I checked my t levels dropped to 250 and that was before I ever touched Sarms.

 

[Smont]

Why can't you ask a doctor for hcg or androgel if your test is low?

Last time I checked my t levels dropped to 250 and that was before I ever touched Sarms.

It don't work that way in the us, you go to a Dr., He has to set you up with bloodwork. You get bloods and then your Dr. has to decide to treat you, dismiss you or set you up with a endo. By the way a good Dr will not put you on trt untill he has exhausted every option to fix the problem. Even if he dicides to put you on trt you don't just get to ask for what you want. If your over 40 it's easier to get on trt.

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

It don't work that way in the us, you go to a Dr., He has to set you up with bloodwork. You get bloods and then your Dr. has to decide to treat you, dismiss you or set you up with a endo. By the way a good Dr will not put you on trt untill he has exhausted every option to fix the problem. Even if he dicides to put you on trt you don't just get to ask for what you want. If your over 40 it's easier to get on trt.

Well im not going to demand just ask to see if he can help with my test being suppressed, I need to get t4 anyways I ran out and prescribed that for my thyroid issues, main reason why I'm going. I'm 31 years old too, hopefully he can help, new doctor. I had a bat sh*t show of a endo last year (saw her only once for that reason ) that refused to check my test levels due to the fact of all the muscle I'm packing, but I was getting my blood checked every two weeks prior for 3 months and my levels kept dropping. That's why I finally switched from primary to endo; but tommorow is a internist (pc).

 

[Renew1]

Well im not going to demand just ask to see if he can help with my test being suppressed, I need to get t4 anyways I ran out and prescribed that for my thyroid issues, main reason why I'm going. I'm 31 years old too, hopefully he can help, new doctor. I had a bat sh*t show of a endo last year (saw her only once for that reason ) that refused to check my test levels due to the fact of all the muscle I'm packing, but I was getting my blood checked every two weeks prior for 3 months and my levels kept dropping. That's why I finally switched from primary to endo; but tommorow is a internist (pc).

Yeah, carrying a lot if muscle can get you the side-eye from certain Docs. ... And it would definitely make some of them slower about prescribing any kind of TRT.

 

[BBiceps]

It don't work that way in the us, you go to a Dr., He has to set you up with bloodwork. You get bloods and then your Dr. has to decide to treat you, dismiss you or set you up with a endo. By the way a good Dr will not put you on trt untill he has exhausted every option to fix the problem. Even if he dicides to put you on trt you don't just get to ask for what you want. If your over 40 it's easier to get on trt.

Well, I think that depends on what Dr you have, I know Dr’s where you pretty much can ask for Clomid, HCG and test. It’s easy enough if you find the “right” Dr.

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

Well got my blood taken yesterday and have to run 2 more draws in the morning for t level check said the doc. At least got my t4 which I been without for 5 days and made lethargy worse. Overall I wasn't bad as I was 2 weeks ago when I started this thread. As quite a few people have mentioned a little estrogen is needed during Sarms; then maybe oral dhea is the way to go (until my dermacrine comes in, freaking holiday delays). I was thinking of going to 300 morning and 300 night.

Why not go over 300? If I'm after a little estrogen.

 

[dvw]

DHEA would covert to estradiol at 20% maybe 25%. That'd be 100 mg of estradiol per day in your blood. You estrogen would be way to high! GYNO could develop!

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

DHEA would covert to estradiol at 20% maybe 25%. That'd be 100 mg of estradiol per day in your blood. You estrogen would be way to high! GYNO could develop!

Well damn maybe just 300 mg?

Not too sound retarded but how do I really know if gyno develops? My chest has always been ripped even when I'm a fat f*ck

Do your nipples hurt or something? Never had gyno can't say I know.

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

Read through this thread

Does oral DHEA work? - AnabolicMinds.com

I took the yk11 out midway through the cycle to check and the shedding continued. But it’s really hard to say because I don’t think the shedding would just suddenly stop when you remove the drug causing it. It might take a couple weeks until that side effect reverses. I only left yk11 out for...

anabolicminds.com

Think I will seriously reconsider my oral dhea dose. I've been off it for 2 days (ran out) killed a 25 mg 60 serving bottle in a little under 2 weeks. I did though take a 50 mg clomid on Saturday 4 days ago. Maybe that will suffice. So I'm really thinking 150 mg daily. Maybe 12.5 mg clomid every two weeks.

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

Okay guys so I ended up getting bsl brutal 4ce (2 days ago) at a local shop on sale and it is definitely working. It has taken away the lethargic side effects I was experiencing and I'm in amore positive mood + concentration is way up.

Though the guy at the shop reccomended I take something like chrysin to combat the estrogenic side effects with brutal 4ce

What about taking clomid once a week of 25 mg or 12.5 x 2 week?

I will still have enough clomid at the end of the cycle to do 25mg x4 weeks.

Or should I go ahead and take the chrysin instead and save clomid for pct.

Some say estrogen is needed for Sarms cycle.

Remember I'm taking s23, rad 140, s4 + now brutal 4ce (guess that's 4-andro?)...I'm 4 weeks into cycle as of now. Also I was taking dhea 50-100 mg day...may stop taking that but I dk.

Good idea to throw in milk thistle for liver support even though non methyl products?

Thanks.

 

[UNX]

There's not enough evidence that chrysin affects test. I would save clomid for the PCT, and don't worry about estrogen (unless you're taking a high dose of 4DHEA).

 

[Renew1]

Okay guys so I ended up getting bsl brutal 4ce (2 days ago) at a local shop on sale and it is definitely working. It has taken away the lethargic side effects I was experiencing and I'm in amore positive mood + concentration is way up.

Though the guy at the shop reccomended I take something like chrysin to combat the estrogenic side effects with brutal 4ce

What about taking clomid once a week of 25 mg or 12.5 x 2 week?

I will still have enough clomid at the end of the cycle to do 25mg x4 weeks.

Or should I go ahead and take the chrysin instead and save clomid for pct.

Some say estrogen is needed for Sarms cycle.

Remember I'm taking s23, rad 140, s4 + now brutal 4ce (guess that's 4-andro?)...I'm 4 weeks into cycle as of now. Also I was taking dhea 50-100 mg day...may stop taking that but I dk.

Good idea to throw in milk thistle for liver support even though non methyl products?

Thanks.

You're trying to up your Estrogen, so why try to block it??
Cut back on the DHEA (or stop taking it) if you want to decrease Estrogen some.

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

You're trying to up your Estrogen, so why try to block it??
Cut back on the DHEA (or stop taking it) if you want to decrease Estrogen some.

The dude at the store reccomended chrysin even though I said I heard you want a little estrogen while on Sarms. He seemed baffled by why anyone would want estrogen. So I was just asking.

I know some said bsl was garbage but the brutal 4ce definitely is helping, 3 a day works much better than 2. Might get another bottle. Though I have some 4andro 1andro epiandro combo coming in the mail for an absurd low pric e (we'll see if it's legit).

 

[Renew1]

The dude at the store reccomended chrysin even though I said I heard you want a little estrogen while on Sarms. He seemed baffled by why anyone would want estrogen. So I was just asking.

I know some said bsl was garbage but the brutal 4ce definitely is helping, 3 a day works much better than 2. Might get another bottle. Though I have some 4andro 1andro epiandro combo coming in the mail for an absurd low pric e (we'll see if it's legit).

I've posted thousands of times on this site, and one of the things I most often post is: "Never take advice from someone trying to sell you something". It is VERY GOOD Advice brother. I'd follow it.

I keep a bottle of DHEA. Know why? In case I ever need to up my Estrogen. But I almost never need it.
If I were you, I'd start taking the 4 Andro, stop taking the DHEA, and forget the Chrysin.

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

I've posted thousands of times on this site, and one of the things I most often post is: "Never take advice from someone trying to sell you something". It is VERY GOOD Advice brother. I'd follow it.

I keep a bottle of DHEA. Know why? In case I ever need to up my Estrogen. But I almost never need it.
If I were you, I'd start taking the 4 Andro, stop taking the DHEA, and forget the Chrysin.

To be honest the guy at this particular place isn't pushy at all like your typical douche meathead at a supplement shop. He even stated chrysin may or may not work. They do have something called torque by geared up nutrition with a propietary blend of m sten, dmz, yk-11 and other crap. Said its probably underdosed...damn good price though half of what it sells for.

 

[Renew1]

To be honest the guy at this particular place isn't pushy at all like your typical douche meathead at a supplement shop. He even stated chrysin may or may not work. They do have something called torque by geared up nutrition with a propietary blend of m sten, dmz, yk-11 and other crap. Said its probably underdosed...damn good price though half of what it sells for.

LOL.
Where were guys like you, when I was a car dealer?
Any way .... It is excellent advice. But some have to learn the hard way.

 

[Renew1]

To be honest the guy at this particular place isn't pushy at all like your typical douche meathead at a supplement shop. He even stated chrysin may or may not work. They do have something called torque by geared up nutrition with a propietary blend of m sten, dmz, yk-11 and other crap. Said its probably underdosed...damn good price though half of what it sells for.

Don't buy proprietary blends. You have no way of knowing how much of each compound you're getting.
... And guess what? There's a reason they don't tell you the dosages.

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

Don't buy proprietary blends. You have no way of knowing how much of each compound you're getting.
... And guess what? There's a reason they don't tell you the dosages.

Yeah they're website is bull sh*t

Excerpt:
PROPRIETARY/ FORMULA PROTECTED
THE REASONING BEHIND OUR PROPRIETARY BLENDED FORMULAS IS SIMPLY TO PROTECT OUR PRECISELY DOSED CUSTOM PRODUCTS. PROPRIETY BLENDED FOR FORMULA PROTECTION SETS US APART.

Also concerning milk thistle for liver support, could this suffice for what I'm taking since none of my compounds are methylated?

 

[Renew1]

Yeah they're website is bull sh*t

Excerpt:
PROPRIETARY/ FORMULA PROTECTED
THE REASONING BEHIND OUR PROPRIETARY BLENDED FORMULAS IS SIMPLY TO PROTECT OUR PRECISELY DOSED CUSTOM PRODUCTS. PROPRIETY BLENDED FOR FORMULA PROTECTION SETS US APART.

Also concerning milk thistle for liver support, could this suffice for what I'm taking since none of my compounds are methylated?

Yeah.... I know exactly why they use a proprietary blend. So they can list good compounds, but primarily use the cheaper ones.

I honestly never buy Milk Thistle anymore. I think it has probably been 9 years or longer since I've bought any.
If it were me, I would use NAC, or TUDCA.

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

Yeah.... I know exactly why they use a proprietary blend. So they can list good compounds, but primarily use the cheaper ones.

I honestly never buy Milk Thistle anymore. I think it has probably been 9 years or longer since I've bought any.
If it were me, I would use NAC, or TUDCA.

Doctor's Best NAC Detox Regulators with Seleno Excell, Non-GMO, Vegetarian, Gluten Free, Soy Free, 60 Veggie Caps https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007HI7IZS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_BBpgEbM5KVY12

Has 600mg of nac for under 5 bucks. Think I might

 

[Renew1]

Doctor's Best NAC Detox Regulators with Seleno Excell, Non-GMO, Vegetarian, Gluten Free, Soy Free, 60 Veggie Caps https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007HI7IZS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_BBpgEbM5KVY12

Has 600mg of nac for under 5 bucks. Think I might

Nice find!

 

[Smont]

The dude at the store reccomended chrysin even though I said I heard you want a little estrogen while on Sarms. He seemed baffled by why anyone would want estrogen. So I was just asking.

I know some said bsl was garbage but the brutal 4ce definitely is helping, 3 a day works much better than 2. Might get another bottle. Though I have some 4andro 1andro epiandro combo coming in the mail for an absurd low pric e (we'll see if it's legit).

That's because the guy at the store knows nothing about what he's selling

 

[Smont]

Doctor's Best NAC Detox Regulators with Seleno Excell, Non-GMO, Vegetarian, Gluten Free, Soy Free, 60 Veggie Caps https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007HI7IZS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_BBpgEbM5KVY12

Has 600mg of nac for under 5 bucks. Think I might

Nac, 1200 to 1800mg a day is a good dose. I don't use liver support on orals, but once I discontinue the oral I will use nac at that dose. It also has lots of other benefits besides liver detoxification

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

Nac, 1200 to 1800mg a day is a good dose. I don't use liver support on orals, but once I discontinue the oral I will use nac at that dose. It also has lots of other benefits besides liver detoxification

No cycle support for orals? Seems like many people believe it's mandatory for liver toxic orals.

 

[Friendly Milkshake]

Bro ...... Did you just give yourself a trophy for the best answer to your own thread?

Looks like I accidentally did! Fixed now.

On a side note, whatever that stano xt stuff was it sure helped with endurance. I finished the bottle last week and that's all the positive I can say. Think it made me a little Fuller too. No strength loss, strength is up higher currently.

 

[Smont]

No cycle support for orals? Seems like many people believe it's mandatory for liver toxic orals.

You can guess what you need or you can be smart and get bloodwork done. I've ran multiple cycles with and without liver protection and the changes in liver values are roughly the same ( but that doesn't mean yours will be the same). Do you take medicine if your not sick? If it's gonna change the same amount then it's not helping me to take it. There's also some evidence that it could be counterproductive to take nac or milk thistle with orals as it could add to stress when taken together but that's up in the air still. So nac is a general health supplement I use to take often, when I have it I take it daily, discontinue it on cycle then continue it after the toxic stuff is out my system or not at all.

Make sense?