Class action lawsuit.....BSN sued..Cellmass contains no CEM3?

ElMariachi

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Turns out that Cellmass doesn't contain ANY CEM3 at all. Neither do NO Xplode or Nitrix. This is from a thread taken off of another site.




supplementpolice.com/Complaint.pdf
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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I've taken NO-Xplode and I gained 15 lbs in 2 months, but that was with going to the gym for a couple of hours, for 5 days out of every week. I included a lot of protein in my diet. Did cardio as well. Didn't drink a lot of water because CEE doesn't dehyrate me like CM does. Besides, CM also made me feel bloated and gave me horrible gas. I hated it. But NO-Xplode did wonders for me.

You need to be very careful about what you read online.
 

ElMariachi

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I've taken NO-Xplode and I gained 15 lbs in 2 months, but that was with going to the gym for a couple of hours, for 5 days out of every week.

Yes, I'm sure you bulked up amazingly through the regular use of flavored caffeine powder.

I included a lot of protein in my diet.
I'm sure the gains had more to do with the caffeine than the protein or training.

Did cardio as well. Didn't drink a lot of water because CEE doesn't dehyrate me like CM does. Besides, CM also made me feel bloated and gave me horrible gas. I hated it. But NO-Xplode did wonders for me.
According to the lawsuit, after being tested repeatedly, NO Xplode only CONTAINS Creatine Mono. Maybe the reason you had problems with CM is because you took too high of a dose?? Have you ever tried just taking 1-2grams of creatine mono and not 5 or more??? You ever thought that maybe the reason you didn't bloat on these products is because you were using a lot less creatine overall.



You need to be very careful about what you read online.


They're being sued in a court of law. That is a fact.
 
Cellardude

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Yes, I'm sure you bulked up amazingly through the regular use of flavored caffeine powder.



I'm sure the gains had more to do with the caffeine than the protein or training.



According to the lawsuit, after being tested repeatedly, NO Xplode only CONTAINS Creatine Mono. Maybe the reason you had problems with CM is because you took too high of a dose?? Have you ever tried just taking 1-2grams of creatine mono and not 5 or more??? You ever thought that maybe the reason you didn't bloat on these products is because you were using a lot less creatine overall.







They're being sued in a court of law. That is a fact.
agreed. these are court papers I believe.
 
Cellardude

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charged of unjust enrichment,fraud lol these are some serious charges. BSN could run into some serious trouble. Below is the evidence that they claim their CEM3 is legit when it's not :rofl:

Lucky bastards who whipped out this lawsuit are going to be rich if their lawyer is good.
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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Well, why doesn't everybody just jump on the wagon and sue BSN then?
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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Yes, I'm sure you bulked up amazingly through the regular use of flavored caffeine powder.



I'm sure the gains had more to do with the caffeine than the protein or training.



According to the lawsuit, after being tested repeatedly, NO Xplode only CONTAINS Creatine Mono. Maybe the reason you had problems with CM is because you took too high of a dose?? Have you ever tried just taking 1-2grams of creatine mono and not 5 or more??? You ever thought that maybe the reason you didn't bloat on these products is because you were using a lot less creatine overall.







They're being sued in a court of law. That is a fact.
I'll look into this.

I was just stating what I experienced. I figured that you were just someone bashing BSN, meanwhile supporting another company, by the looks of your very little post count. My bad.

By the way, I lost weight and slimmed out, while using NO-Xplode and did notice increases in strength. I would know what I experienced. No need to get all high and mighty on everybody here.
 
Cellardude

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Well, why doesn't everybody just jump on the wagon and sue BSN then?
lol great idea man! :lol: jk

Im accused of buying N.O Explode before. I did "feel" it but as far as gains Ive never experienced any.
 
Cellardude

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I'll look into this.

I was just stating what I experienced. I figured that you were just someone bashing BSN, by the looks of your very little post count. My bad.

By the way, I lost weight and slimmed out, while using NO-Xplode and did notice increases in strength. I would know what I experienced. No need to get all high and mighty on everybody here.
I will argue on NY's side as well. To each their own, some people experience different gains. Have people used BSN and liked the results? yeah of course. It's not complete garbage, but its nothing special either. Plain monohydrate creatine will add a few extra pounds to you. Caffeine will give increase in energy and strength. Some people love it, some dont. Thats fine. I think it works for the first week for energy and then shortly after, nothing. but thats just my opinion. Agian different people see different results on the same supplements. It depends on the person thats all.
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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lol great idea man! :lol: jk

Im accused of buying N.O Explode before. I did "feel" it but as far as gains Ive never experienced any.
I had a very healthy and strict diet at the time. I also looked and felt more solid. I didn't consume a lot of water because I was hardly ever thirsty. I noticed an increase in strength. I looked slim, but jacked also. I know I definitely experienced something from it and surely put it to good use.

I've put quite a bit of money into NO-Xplode and it never let me down. Everybody's body is different and I doubt BSN is the only supplement company that exaggerates their products and their contents.

Perhaps the 'supplement police' here on AM could look into researching the other BSN products? Who's to say those aren't exaggerated? Hell, why don't we all just start a revolution against the supplement industry.
 

ElMariachi

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I had a very healthy and strict diet at the time. I also looked and felt more solid. I didn't consume a lot of water because I was hardly ever thirsty. I noticed an increase in strength. I looked slim, but jacked also. I know I definitely experienced something from it and surely put it to good use.

I've put quite a bit of money into NO-Xplode and it never let me down. Everybody's body is different and I doubt BSN is the only supplement company that exaggerates their products and their contents.

Perhaps the 'supplement police' here on AM could look into researching the other BSN products? Who's to say those aren't exaggerated? Hell, why don't we all just start a revolution against the supplement industry.



Exaggerating and flat-out LYING about what is inside a product are two different things.




An exaggeration is "This product will make you HUGE in a single week."


A lie is "this product contains a REVOLUTIONARY FORM OF CREATINE THAT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND" when the product contains plain ole' creatine monohydrate.





So basically folks have been paying $30+ bucks for 40 servings of flavored, low-dose creatine mono.
 
matthew76

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Yes, I'm sure you bulked up amazingly through the regular use of flavored caffeine powder.



I'm sure the gains had more to do with the caffeine than the protein or training.



According to the lawsuit, after being tested repeatedly, NO Xplode only CONTAINS Creatine Mono. Maybe the reason you had problems with CM is because you took too high of a dose?? Have you ever tried just taking 1-2grams of creatine mono and not 5 or more??? You ever thought that maybe the reason you didn't bloat on these products is because you were using a lot less creatine overall.







They're being sued in a court of law. That is a fact.
:goodpost:
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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Exaggerating and flat-out LYING about what is inside a product are two different things.




An exaggeration is "This product will make you HUGE in a single week."


A lie is "this product contains a REVOLUTIONARY FORM OF CREATINE THAT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND" when the product contains plain ole' creatine monohydrate.





So basically folks have been paying $30+ bucks for 40 servings of flavored, low-dose creatine mono.
What supplement company doesn't exaggerate and lie about the ingredients in their products!? Seriously.

As I said, lets all just start a revolution against the supplement industry. We could all become millionaires by suing all these companies that we love and feed our money to anyway, even though they're giving us the big stiffie.
 
Cellardude

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I had a very healthy and strict diet at the time. I also looked and felt more solid. I didn't consume a lot of water because I was hardly ever thirsty. I noticed an increase in strength. I looked slim, but jacked also. I know I definitely experienced something from it and surely put it to good use.

I've put quite a bit of money into NO-Xplode and it never let me down. Everybody's body is different and I doubt BSN is the only supplement company that exaggerates their products and their contents.

Perhaps the 'supplement police' here on AM could look into researching the other BSN products? Who's to say those aren't exaggerated? Hell, why don't we all just start a revolution against the supplement industry.
Agreed. Sometimes companys do claim things on an unlikely degree. However they do work to some degree. This is why I only stick to my companys like PAL and AN company like these are company's that Ive never really experienced bs from.

However you cannot say that BSN overhyped their product when there is no hype to begin with my friend. BSN claims that their creatine CEM3 or w/e is better than other creatines. This fake advertising has lead to their success. With this it has been discovered that there is no such thing. There is no real debate about this in a court of law. If it's proven then it's proven. You cannot prove that a supplement doesnt put up to the claim on products because agian, everyone has different experiences. One may love a product like aspire while a selected few may say it doesnt work. You cannot argue this is a court of law, however you can argue on fraud advertising in this term when the what they were advertising was never there. It's like advertising online for something like a car. When someone pays for it they however never recieve the car because their was no car to begin with. This can be argued in a courtroom.
 
warbird01

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I've taken NO-Xplode and I gained 15 lbs in 2 months, but that was with going to the gym for a couple of hours, for 5 days out of every week. I included a lot of protein in my diet. Did cardio as well. Didn't drink a lot of water because CEE doesn't dehyrate me like CM does. Besides, CM also made me feel bloated and gave me horrible gas. I hated it. But NO-Xplode did wonders for me.

You need to be very careful about what you read online.
Are you attributing your 15 lbs to NO xpode? :wtf:
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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Are you attributing your 15 lbs to NO xpode? :wtf:
Definitely not. I'm just assuming that the stimulant effect from NO-Xplode had helped me gain those 15 lbs. I was constantly in the gym. A couple hours a day, 5 days a week. I did a lot of heavy lifting. The NO-Xplode definitely stimulated and I do believe the Creatine content helped to some degree, as well. But I believe I accomplished the gains mostly on my own.
 
Cellardude

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What supplement company doesn't exaggerate and lie about the ingredients in their products!? Seriously.

As I said, lets all just start a revolution against the supplement industry. We could all become millionaires by suing all these companies that we love and feed our money to anyway, even though they're giving us the big stiffie.
you cannot go around accusing companys bro. you have to prove it first. remember bsn probably has a counter claim agianst the plaintiff. They might claim that this court case or accusation is ruining their reputation. If you were to start accusing randomly and blindly you could end up in some serious trouble. BSN is just a big company thats why it was hit the way it was hit. It happens. Im sure some smaller companys out their do the same. The plaintiffs were just sueing on the fact that BSN's money should not rightfully belong to them. The reason why is because BSN never had anything to sell in the first place. It's like trying to buy a car, and getting a piano instead. Two different things, you paid for item X or in this case the patent technology creatine, when their is no such thing, a court case is likely to happen. Im sure BSN has lawyers that will pull them out of this though somehow.
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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Agreed. Sometimes companys do claim things on an unlikely degree. However they do work to some degree. This is why I only stick to my companys like PAL and AN company like these are company's that Ive never really experienced bs from.

However you cannot say that BSN overhyped their product when there is no hype to begin with my friend. BSN claims that their creatine CEM3 or w/e is better than other creatines. This fake advertising has lead to their success. With this it has been discovered that there is no such thing. There is no real debate about this in a court of law. If it's proven then it's proven. You cannot prove that a supplement doesnt put up to the claim on products because agian, everyone has different experiences. One may love a product like aspire while a selected few may say it doesnt work. You cannot argue this is a court of law, however you can argue on fraud advertising in this term when the what they were advertising was never there. It's like advertising online for something like a car. When someone pays for it they however never recieve the car because their was no car to begin with. This can be argued in a courtroom.
Many companies use false advertising, even to the slightest degree. You have to do what you can to look bigger and better than the next guy, who just so happens to be selling the same thing directed towards the same people. It's competitive business.

False advertising can get you sued, of course. But a lot of companies out there could get, and have been, sued for it. I'm sure that people will seek justice with other supplement companies someday.
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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Agreed. Sometimes companys do claim things on an unlikely degree. However they do work to some degree. This is why I only stick to my companys like PAL and AN company like these are company's that Ive never really experienced bs from.

However you cannot say that BSN overhyped their product when there is no hype to begin with my friend. BSN claims that their creatine CEM3 or w/e is better than other creatines. This fake advertising has lead to their success. With this it has been discovered that there is no such thing. There is no real debate about this in a court of law. If it's proven then it's proven. You cannot prove that a supplement doesnt put up to the claim on products because agian, everyone has different experiences. One may love a product like aspire while a selected few may say it doesnt work. You cannot argue this is a court of law, however you can argue on fraud advertising in this term when the what they were advertising was never there. It's like advertising online for something like a car. When someone pays for it they however never recieve the car because their was no car to begin with. This can be argued in a courtroom.
Sorry about the double post!
 
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MuscleGuyinNY

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you cannot go around accusing companys bro. you have to prove it first. remember bsn probably has a counter claim agianst the plaintiff. They might claim that this court case or accusation is ruining their reputation. If you were to start accusing randomly and blindly you could end up in some serious trouble. BSN is just a big company thats why it was hit the way it was hit. It happens. Im sure some smaller companys out their do the same. The plaintiffs were just sueing on the fact that BSN's money should not rightfully belong to them. The reason why is because BSN never had anything to sell in the first place. It's like trying to buy a car, and getting a piano instead. Two different things, you paid for item X or in this case the patent technology creatine, when their is no such thing, a court case is likely to happen. Im sure BSN has lawyers that will pull them out of this though somehow.
I'm not accusing any company of anything. But every company lies, even to the slightest degree. Every company lies and exaggerates. It's how you make it in business.

And I agree. I'm sure BSN has a team of lawyers, double or triple the size of OJ's.
 
Cellardude

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Many companies use false advertising, even to the slightest degree. You have to do what you can to look bigger and better than the next guy, who just so happens to be selling the same thing directed towards the same people. It's competitive business.

False advertising can get you sued, of course. But a lot of companies out there could get, and have been, sued for it. I'm sure that people will seek justice with other supplement companies someday.

I really hate the fact that I'm debating about legal issues right now, especially after the legal sh!t I've been through for the past 5 months.
lol haha I actually like a debate like this. :thumbsup: See agian, about your point their is a difference with exaggerating vs lying. You cannot prove an exaggerated point. It's just not a "fact" that you can use. lying is however and can be proven.

Agian with exaggerated claims you the plaintiff can say oh I never saw these types of gains. The defendant could argue oh you did X,Y and Z things wrong. And they can also say that X person did get those gains. Their is no debate agianst those things as they vary from person to person. But a flat out lie can be proven. Theirs a difference between lying about advertising and lying about an ingredience. Hydroxycut for example, is claimed to cut fat. How much fat depends on the person and X,Y,Z factors. Hydroxycut claiming to have X in it while it has no traces of X but only Y is a lie. The money profitted from that claim would be stealing. It's like going into a BMW dealer and getting a ford. False advertising is saying this car can go X fast and is very popular when it isnt. Sure he lied to you, but techincally he didnt steal from you. Your just an idiot:icon_lol:
 
matthew76

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Agreed. Sometimes companys do claim things on an unlikely degree. However they do work to some degree. This is why I only stick to my companys like PAL and AN company like these are company's that Ive never really experienced bs from.

However you cannot say that BSN overhyped their product when there is no hype to begin with my friend. BSN claims that their creatine CEM3 or w/e is better than other creatines. This fake advertising has lead to their success. With this it has been discovered that there is no such thing. There is no real debate about this in a court of law. If it's proven then it's proven. You cannot prove that a supplement doesnt put up to the claim on products because agian, everyone has different experiences. One may love a product like aspire while a selected few may say it doesnt work. You cannot argue this is a court of law, however you can argue on fraud advertising in this term when the what they were advertising was never there. It's like advertising online for something like a car. When someone pays for it they however never recieve the car because their was no car to begin with. This can be argued in a courtroom.
:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:
 
Cellardude

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I'm not accusing any company of anything. But every company lies, even to the slightest degree. Every company lies and exaggerates. It's how you make it in business.

And I agree. I'm sure BSN has a team of lawyers, double or triple the size of OJ's.
lol. did you see the south park episode of when they used OJ's lawyer? that **** made me crack up like crazy. He argued the chewbacca defense which "made no sense" rofl. Im sure BSN lawyers will pull their asses out of this somehow.
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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lol haha I actually like a debate like this. :thumbsup: See agian, about your point their is a difference with exaggerating vs lying. You cannot prove an exaggerated point. It's just not a "fact" that you can use. lying is however and can be proven.

Agian with exaggerated claims you the plaintiff can say oh I never saw these types of gains. The defendant could argue oh you did X,Y and Z things wrong. And they can also say that X person did get those gains. Their is no debate agianst those things as they vary from person to person. But a flat out lie can be proven. Theirs a difference between lying about advertising and lying about an ingredience. Hydroxycut for example, is claimed to cut fat. How much fat depends on the person and X,Y,Z factors. Hydroxycut claiming to have X in it while it has no traces of X but only Y is a lie. The money profitted from that claim would be stealing. It's like going into a BMW dealer and getting a ford. False advertising is saying this car can go X fast and is very popular when it isnt.
Hmmm.

I'm gonna research this issue a little bit and read the article linked at the top.

Still. Every company lies. This time around, somebody just really had it out for BSN. BSN dug themselves a hole, but I'm sure they'll get out of it with the money they've made. They got caught. Maybe they'll actually create something like CEM3 at some point rather than labeling their products as containing it.
 

Necroticism

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i bet bsn will settle out of court.
 
Cellardude

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Hmmm.

I'm gonna research this issue a little bit and read the article linked at the top.

Still. Every company lies. This time around, somebody just really had it out for BSN. BSN dug themselves a hole, but I'm sure they'll get out of it with the money they've made. They got caught. Maybe they'll actually create something like CEM3 at some point rather than labeling their products as containing it.
probably. They might dig themselves out of many holes in fact. I however dont see them getting out of the whole CEM3 thing however. Reguardless I still think they might be charged with fraud. You should read the article above. It was an intresting read. I skimmed through it but it was a pretty intresting read. Not as hard to interpret as other things ive seen before.
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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lol. did you see the south park episode of when they used OJ's lawyer? that **** made me crack up like crazy. He argued the chewbacca defense which "made no sense" rofl. Im sure BSN lawyers will pull their asses out of this somehow.
Yes, the late Johnny Cochran. That guy could get anybody out of anything. There's actually a lawyer here where I love, who's pretty much like a mediocre JC. He charges up the ass, but he's definitely worth every penny. He recently got a man off of manslaughter. It was pretty crazy.

I never get sick of South Park, but I do get sick of OJ. Not meaning to sidetrack or anything, but I still can't decide as to whether I think he's guilty or not. JC was very intelligent, but he was also a very funny guy from what I've red and heard. He would make very good points, but then confuse the jury and the judge, by switching to talking about something compeltely irrelevant. He was quite a character.

National Lampoon's 'Van Wilder' made fun of OJ, too. When the Law Club helped Van plead his case to the college board. "If the glove doesn't fit, you're all full of sh!t."
 
Cellardude

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i bet bsn will settle out of court.
to avoid their reputation from being ruined hell yeah. But then agian, this case goes out to EVERYONE who has purchased BSN N.O Explode or Cellmass. Im sure someone else could just whip out another case about it since it was affected by more than just 2 people.
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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probably. They might dig themselves out of many holes in fact. I however dont see them getting out of the whole CEM3 thing however. Reguardless I still think they might be charged with fraud. You should read the article above. It was an intresting read. I skimmed through it but it was a pretty intresting read. Not as hard to interpret as other things ive seen before.
You can dig yourself out of any legal matter if you either know the right people or have the money.
 
Cellardude

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Yes, the late Johnny Cochran. That guy could get anybody out of anything. There's actually a lawyer here where I love, who's pretty much like a mediocre JC. He charges up the ass, but he's definitely worth every penny. He recently got a man off of manslaughter. It was pretty crazy.

I never get sick of South Park, but I do get sick of OJ. Not meaning to sidetrack or anything, but I still can't decide as to whether I think he's guilty or not. JC was very intelligent, but he was also a very funny guy from what I've red and heard. He would make very good points, but then confuse the jury and the judge, by switching to talking about something compeltely irrelevant. He was quite a character.

National Lampoon's 'Van Wilder' made fun of OJ, too. When the Law Club helped Van plead his case to the college board. "If the glove doesn't fit, you're all full of sh!t."

haha I never followed up with the OJ details actually. Watching that SP episode was hilarious to see him bring up chewbacca on a court case involving the property of lyrics.
 
Cellardude

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You can dig yourself out of any legal matter if you either know the right people or have the money.
not EVERYTHING. But you can slide out on a lot of things. Ill be following up on this to see how BSN struggles out of this one.
 

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true, but i honestly doubt that many people know about it. the vast majority of people that use there stuff are 15-18 year old kids who dont pay attention to much that goes on in the world, let alone a lawsuite vs bsn, and even if they do hear about it they are way to stubborn to beleive it and will think its bs cuz they think no xplode got them jacked. i dont thinks bsn has to worry.
to avoid their reputation from being ruined hell yeah. But then agian, this case goes out to EVERYONE who has purchased BSN N.O Explode or Cellmass. Im sure someone else could just whip out another case about it since it was affected by more than just 2 people.
 
Cellardude

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true, but i honestly doubt that many people know about it. the vast majority of people that use there stuff are 15-18 year old kids who dont pay attention to much that goes on in the world, let alone a lawsuite vs bsn, and even if they do hear about it they are way to stubborn to beleive it and will think its bs cuz they think no xplode got them jacked. i dont thinks bsn has to worry.

lol. Ill bring that **** up in that case. :thumbsup:

jk I have better things to do.
 

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exactly...these 2 people brought it up, but i honestly doubt there will be more, and when bsn settles it'll shut these 2 people up.
 
Cellardude

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exactly...these 2 people brought it up, but i honestly doubt there will be more, and when bsn settles it'll shut these 2 people up.
they'll be rich ass people for sure though. BSN would need 10mil to get me to shut up :D
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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not EVERYTHING. But you can slide out on a lot of things. Ill be following up on this to see how BSN struggles out of this one.
Well, if this particular lawyer that I'm speaking of could get a guy out of manslaughter, then I'm sure he definitely could've gotten me out of a Criminal Contempt 2nd charge. It's only a B Misdemeanor in New York state. I could've spent tons of money on him ($1,500 to start) to get me out of fines and probation, but I just wanted all of this bullsh!t to be done and over with.

I do have a lot of soures around the area, especially in law enforcement, but you have to catch them on a good day. If you catch them on a bad day, then they worry about losing their and get caught up in other things.

I'm sure BSN will be giving out money and BSN products, left and right.
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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they'll be rich ass people for sure though. BSN would need 10mil to get me to shut up :D
I'm sure BSN has the right amount of money and the right lawyers, to help settle this suit.

BSN is probably surprised that it took somebody this long to catch on, lol.
 

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Link to an actual analysis of Cellmass. No CEE detected, only 1.3g of creatine monohydrate.

http://www.supplementpolice.com/9898.pdf



PS-Be aware that if this lawsuit goes through, it may not be just individuals who get involved. The FTC and FDA might both play a role in this. Especially the FTC, they've been quick to drop the hammer recently on companies that have engaged in fraud. If the government gets involved in this, it will be MUCH MUCH worse for BSN.
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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Link to an actual analysis of Cellmass. No CEE detected, only 1.3g of creatine monohydrate.

http://www.supplementpolice.com/9898.pdf



PS-Be aware that if this lawsuit goes through, it may not be just individuals who get involved. The FTC and FDA might both play a role in this. Especially the FTC, they've been quick to drop the hammer recently on companies that have engaged in fraud. If the government gets involved in this, it will be MUCH MUCH worse for BSN.
If the government gets involved, especially the government we have now, then most supplement companies will be getting a lot of very unappreciated attention. But BSN will be to blame for starting it.

Lets not forget President Bush's joy of signing bans.

I'm not trying to turn this thread political or anything, but I think it's ridiculous when the government is telling people what they can and cannot do with their bodies. There have already been two bans and I'm sure there are more to come. BSN definitely won't be the only victim/enemy of the government's tyrade.
 

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If the government gets involved, especially the government we have now, then most supplement companies will be getting a lot of very unappreciated attention. But BSN will be to blame for starting it.

Lets not forget President Bush's joy of signing bans.

I'm not trying to turn this thread political or anything, but I think it's ridiculous when the government is telling people what they can and cannot do with their bodies. There have already been two bans and I'm sure there are more to come. BSN definitely won't be the only victim/enemy of the government's tyrade.


How is the government being tyrannical???? Also, the signed ban only enforced existing steroid laws that were already on the books. On top of that, how is the government taking action against fradulent companies in anyway "telling people what to do with their bodies?"


I'm getting the impression that you have a real problem with logic.
 
Cellardude

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I just read a thread that tested epistane. It turns out that it only contains about 40% of the ingredience that was stated. Thats kind of surprising to me.
 

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I just read a thread that tested epistane. It turns out that it only contains about 40% of the ingredience that was stated. Thats kind of surprising to me.

Patrick Arnold thinks that Epistane might even possibly be tren as its MW does not match up with Havoc or any of the other epi compounds.
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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I just read a thread that tested epistane. It turns out that it only contains about 40% of the ingredience that was stated. Thats kind of surprising to me.
Perhaps that's why people see better results while stacking with it or pulsing it with something else?

This is surprising to me as well.
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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How is the government being tyrannical???? Also, the signed ban only enforced existing steroid laws that were already on the books. On top of that, how is the government taking action against fradulent companies in anyway "telling people what to do with their bodies?"


I'm getting the impression that you have a real problem with logic.
Those steroidal compounds were still being processed, distributed, and used. Until of course, Bush signed a ban. Or two. Why ban a particular product? If somebody wants to use it, then it's their right. Some people will use products responsibly, some won't. But let people do what they want with their bodies. If they misuse something, then it's their problem. The government gets way too involved with people's lives, more so since 2000. Hm, I wonder why.

Yes, those laws may have been in the books, but they weren't enforced. Many laws aren't enforced. Hell, dancing before 6am in the state of Utah is illegal. Spitting on the sidewalk in New York state is illegal. Come on, now. Yes, some companies may sometimes be in slight breach of FTC and/or FDA regulations, but usually compromises can be made. You don't have to flat-out ban something.

I see I hit a nerve. You a Bush supporter?
 

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Those steroidal compounds were still being processed, distributed, and used. Until of course, Bush signed a ban. Or two. Why ban a particular product?

Because these compounds were technically illegal and in violation of the laws that had been passed prior. The same way that products like Mass Tabs are illegal and in violation of the DSHEA. Just because the products are available for sale, does not explicity indicate their legality.

If somebody wants to use it, then it's their right. Some people will use products responsibly, some won't. But let people do what they want with their bodies. If they misuse something, then it's their problem. The government gets way too involved with people's lives, more so since 2000. Hm, I wonder why.
Laws banning steroids were well in place before 2000.........just sayin'. Also, these products did not actually become an issue until 2000 and a few years after when compounds like M1T were ridiculously pushing the envelope. Even back when andro first came out, folks were saying that the government hammer was inevitable, just as it is inevitable that this current crop of prohormone/designer type compounds will get banned as well.


Yes, those laws may have been in the books, but they weren't enforced. Many laws aren't enforced. Hell, dancing before 6am in the state of Utah is illegal. Spitting on the sidewalk in New York state is illegal. Come on, now. Yes, some companies may sometimes be in slight breach of FTC and/or FDA regulations, but usually compromises can be made. You don't have to flat-out ban something.
So just because something is not enforced, makes it alright to break the law? We're not talking about archaic laws passed in the 18th century, we're talking laws that were passed about a decade prior. If you don't like the current laws, go vote, get some new people into office, but quit whining about the "tyrannical government."

The government has no power other than what the people give it.


I see I hit a nerve. You a Bush supporter?

Not so much, I just have a problem with ridiculous rhetoric and someone talking out of their rear end.


I agree that people should have a lot more rights to do what they want with their own bodies, but, breaking or trying to evade the current laws, is not the way to do it. Getting those laws changed is the best way to go about it, not whining when a company that has been skating the law for years finally gets busted and a product gets taken off the market.




PS- Ron Paul FTW!
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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A lot of laws have been strongly enforced, some in very ridiculous manners, ever since Bush became president. The people definitely didn't give Bush the power he has. Politicians, as well as law enforcement, constantly abuse their powers. They get away with it most of the time, too, which is a shame.

Whether ingredients in a compound are illegal or not, people are gonna do what they wanna do, whether or not you tell them they can or can't do it. Bush just loves having control, so he'll be willing to sign anything and enforce anything, even though he can hardly read.

I just strongly believe in the rights of individuals. If you wanna inject yourself with an illegal, injectible steroid, then fine. That's your choice. You're your own person, so you have that right. But the Law being able to tell you that you can't do that and treat your body the way you want? It's ridiculous. At least set restrictions, such as a legal age (18 or 21) to purchase and possess a particular supplement. Don't ban it just because a couple of idiots used it irresponsibly. That's their own fault.

And as I already said, most of the time, the FTC and FDA can compromise and come to terms, but that obviously wasn't the case, if you look at the few recent bans.
 
thebigt

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I just read a thread that tested epistane. It turns out that it only contains about 40% of the ingredience that was stated. Thats kind of surprising to me.
how many supps do you think if tested contain exactly what they say? if those guys suing bsn get some dough look for people to start testing everything trying to cash in.
 

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