Can Boosting Immune System Stop Covid-19?

Ape McGrapes

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Obviously because of what our community is, most of us are more than likely taking measures to boost our immune system. Hypothetically we hope this will keep us from catching the Coronavirus, but is that the case? If exposed, will a strong enough/boosted immune system keep us from catching the virus, just shorten the duration of infection, or are we kidding ourselves?

For example: Here is what I have the girlfriend and I running at the moment. She is a non essential employee in an essential business, so she still goes to work.
 
GreenMachineX

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You've helped me make my point.
No. I don't want anyone to take it.

I support anyone who wants to however.
Down vote me all you want. You guys realize that doesn't mean anything right?
Just stop being snotty man. Your delivery on most of your posts is terrible and just causes others to throw up defenses. I know your intelligent, and I know you know it doesn’t work. Do you want people to see your point of view? If so, then don’t insinuate for the president to take a medicine and have lethal side effects as an example. Again, ask yourself if what your about to post is helpful. Banter is one thing, your choices are something different.
 
justhere4comm

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That's it. I'm giving up drinking for a month.
That came out wrong.

I'm giving up. Drinking for a month.
 

Iwilleattuna

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HIT4ME

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honestly, I think that vitamin C should be at least double! I’m with Hit4me at about 12g now.

if you can find it, Evomuse GutHealth might be something to consider too. It gives me side effects (histamine) so I use a bifidobacterium/lactobacillus blend to control histamine and antiviral activity.

Not SARS exactly, but can’t hurt and controls my histamine issues.
Great post. Gut Health actually, in theory, can help prevent some viral infections in a few ways. Obviously healthy bacteria can help kill off some things. But these healthy bacteria occupy spaces in our guts that a low things into out blood stream. If those spaces are all full of healthy bacteria, it is much harder for unhealthy bacteria and viruses to get through (in theory).

Also, thickening up mucous in the gut lining can be helpful for the same reason and gut health helps with that as well.

Of course, if you inhale a virus into your lungs, having a barricade in your gut doesn't help.
 
GreenMachineX

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Exclusive: Pressed by Trump, U.S. pushed unproven coronavirus treatment guidance
No, he's quoted. It's dangerous to go on national television and tout this to people.

I would say this about anyone doing so.
I provided a quote, and a response by the Pres. of the AMA.

I'm sorry, you seem upset and tangental regarding my support for legalizing all drugs, and are using my words as such to show it's ok for the President of the United States to say it's ok to take them to treat a condition it was not tested for. There is a vast difference in meaning.

I wanted to use Marijuana for my mother and father's cancer so they could stop taking the Morphine which was causing horrible side effects and a quality of life that was unacceptable, and it was prescribed by Doctors. Again, a big difference.

We are in a pandemic, and it's a serious problem that requires serious people.

It's clear I think the President is a reckless and selfish person that has not once done anything without some sort of angle to profit himself, and it is also my opinion he is pushing this drug for selfish reasons. He doesn't care about life and death because he is a Malignant Narcissist. Not capable of empathy.

Why can't you see it is what troubles me more?
He deserved to be impeached and removed from office. The evidence was clear and the GOP failed their oath.

Edit.
I think Pence would have done the right thing! Early, and we'd probably be in a better place.
I typically stay out of all this political stuff, and so that’s not my angle in this post, but some of your posts just come off as hateful and not helpful. I think we all want what’s best for our country and it’s people, so can’t we just figure that out without trash talking or name calling?

And this goes for everyone. Both sides come off as hateful while digging there heels in against the opposite group regardless of issue (except HIT4ME, maybe a few others but HIT4ME is always level headed that I’ve seen).
If we all could make an agreement to truly ask ourselves “is what I’m about to post actually helpful?” before we post, we might be able to see the opposite person’s point of view a little clearer and actually accomplish something.
 
Aleksandar37

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That's the video I found too and isn't him saying it's safe. We don't know the safety because the trials haven't been run yet. It also takes a proven medication away from lupus patients, which Dr. Wallace did comment on:

"An estimated 70 to 80 percent of lupus patients in the U.S. are taking hydroxychloroquine, Dr. Daniel J. Wallace, a board-certified rheumatologist and co-founder of a lupus foundation in Los Angeles, Lupus LA, told Fox News. He said many of his patients are also experiencing difficulty in getting the much-needed medication.

“There are backorders of Plaquenil. Many of my patients who get a three-month supply are now only given a one-month supply. Among those who are getting any at all, they’re not always getting their full order,” he said.

In LA specifically, “Pharmacies are back-ordering and there are a few pharmacies that are putting some of the drugs aside for patients who are good patients and know they have lupus," he added. "For those with new prescriptions, I have been asked by a few pharmacies to write a note to document that a patient really has lupus."


So no, don't get medical advice from CNN or MSNBC, but also don't get it from Fox either. Listen to physicians and researchers who don't spend their time on television speaking outside of their expertise.
 
manifesto

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That's the video I found too and isn't him saying it's safe. We don't know the safety because the trials haven't been run yet. It also takes a proven medication away from lupus patients, which Dr. Wallace did comment on:

"An estimated 70 to 80 percent of lupus patients in the U.S. are taking hydroxychloroquine, Dr. Daniel J. Wallace, a board-certified rheumatologist and co-founder of a lupus foundation in Los Angeles, Lupus LA, told Fox News. He said many of his patients are also experiencing difficulty in getting the much-needed medication.

“There are backorders of Plaquenil. Many of my patients who get a three-month supply are now only given a one-month supply. Among those who are getting any at all, they’re not always getting their full order,” he said.

In LA specifically, “Pharmacies are back-ordering and there are a few pharmacies that are putting some of the drugs aside for patients who are good patients and know they have lupus," he added. "For those with new prescriptions, I have been asked by a few pharmacies to write a note to document that a patient really has lupus."


So no, don't get medical advice from CNN or MSNBC, but also don't get it from Fox either. Listen to physicians and researchers who don't spend their time on television speaking outside of their expertise.
I'm not getting anything from Fox.

Also, there are multiple treatments for Lupus...my mother had Lupus which is currently dormant. There are several options available to suppress thenimmine system.....

I think its worth using the drug to save some lives from covid19, and providing the Lupus patients with an alternate treatment for the time being...

And he did say the drug was safe....? What have you been reading/watching?
 
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sns8778

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I'm not getting anything from Fox.

Also, there are multiple treatments for Lupus...my mother had Lupus which is currently dormant. There are several options available to suppress thenimmine system.....

I think its worth using the drug to save some lives from covid19, and providing the Lupus patients with an alternate treatment for the time being...

And he did say the drug was safe....? What have you been reading/watching?
I'm not getting involved in the political argument part of this thread.

I'm quoting the post to say that I hope that your mother continues to be doing well. I have a complicated autoimmune issue myself and they at first thought it was Lupus; so I just wanted to pass on my well wishes for her.

I was familiar with hydroxychloroquine for Lupus and Malaria many years ago. I've actually used it myself before teaching in Uganda years ago for anti-malaria purposes and experienced no side effects. Everyone is different; I'm just sharing my experience as probably one of few in the thread that may have taken it personally.
 
manifesto

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I'm not getting involved in the political argument part of this thread.

I'm quoting the post to say that I hope that your mother continues to be doing well. I have a complicated autoimmune issue myself and they at first thought it was Lupus; so I just wanted to pass on my well wishes for her.

I was familiar with hydroxychloroquine for Lupus and Malaria many years ago. I've actually used it myself before teaching in Uganda years ago for anti-malaria purposes and experienced no side effects. Everyone is different; I'm just sharing my experience as probably one of few in the thread that may have taken it personally.
Thank you, sir. She is doing ok. She also has severe Rheumatoid Arthritis, which is another battle.

Her Lupus first manifested as a rash on her back, which turned into her skin peeling off. My dad and I were forced to learn about auto immune system. She was prescribed Cellcept for several years...then it just went dormant...

Thanks again for the well wishes.
 
manifesto

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Let it go man; it's not worth it. He's not even being honest about where he saw the doctor, so if he's going to lie about something stupid like that, don't expect a rational conversation.
I'm lying about where I saw the doctor?

I've been knowing about this man for years since my mother was diagnosed with Lupus...I live in southern california, not far from Cedar Sinai. He has been asked several times over the years about the safety of these immuno suppressive drugs, and more recently HCQ...he has said flat out the side effects are "nill."

He has not made any guarantees about it curing or preventing covid19, but he felt obligated to address the fear mongering. The liberal media would have us think Trump is pushing this dangerous drug because hes in it for the money.....

That's how sick the liberals are. They hate Trump so much, theh would rather see people die and the country collapse, than he get re-elected.
 
justhere4comm

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This is one hell of a read, and over my head for sure, but it's more in line with clinical analysis than anyone could probably hope to look at instead of some doctor on television saying "no sides, nil" or otherwise. There are a few key points being made; one of which speaks to creating a demand for a yet unproven drug thereby making others who currently use the drug suffer.

There is in fact a shortage of the drug. We didn't learn our lesson with the entire toilet paper; hand sanitizer; and bottled water fiasco? Human beings in general are animals demonstrating the hunt and gather; now hoard mentality when faced with an unknown and invisible enemy.

I respect this being a place to vent one's frustrations, and do not hold it against my fellow members, but level heads must prevail.

You have to register to read, but it's free.

Linked from this page. (FDA)

I can't locate my source of information, but it was speaking to the dose given to Covid-19 patients being double that of those having Lupus. That may play a role in increasing side effects known or unknown but experienced. Can anyone verify the dose being given to Covid-19 patients? 200-400mg are given to Lupus patients. In those seeking to prevent Malaria they are given an initial dose of 800mg, then it's tapered down.
 
HIT4ME

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There are cardiac sides that are considered too dangerous for seriously ill patients.

A small trial finds that hydroxychloroquine is not effective for treating coronavirus. (April 3)



Coronavirus: "we have already had to stop treatment" of hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin at the CHU in Nice


(April 7)





Professor Émile Ferrari heads the cardiology department at the Pasteur hospital in Nice. He returned to the hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin association in the context of severe forms of Covid-19.


The CHU de Nice, like other establishments, is testing the hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin combination in patients hospitalized with severe forms of Covid-19. How are these patients followed from a cardiological point of view?



"We have set up a 7/7 and H24 monitoring method; all the Covid sectors of the Nice University Hospital send us the patient's ECG [electrocardiogram, ed] recordings. We interpret them live and report anomalies to them which predispose to toxicity. And which then require a cessation of treatment. "

Has this ever happened?


"Yes, from the start of the trial. Thanks to this ECG follow-up, we highlighted the major risks of a very serious accident in a patient, and the treatment was immediately stopped."

How is this toxic risk on the heart explained?


"The cells of the heart have a spontaneous electrical activity, which makes it possible to generate the cardiac contraction. This activation happens a little like an alternating current with a phase of contraction and a phase of recovery. These phases are ordered and successive. or certain conditions can desynchronize these phases. It can then cause chaos, a big disorder in the electric current of the cells of the heart with a risk of "short circuit"; the heart rate is racing, it is disordered, which does not allows the heart muscle to be more efficient. The subsequent drop in blood flow then causes dizziness, malaise, syncope ... up to cardiac arrest which are the translation of serious arrhythmias. "

Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin are widely prescribed despite these risks ...


"When hydroxychloroquine is given on its own, the cardiac risk is very low. On the other hand, the antibiotic (azithromycin) which is systematically prescribed in combination with hydroxychloroquine in the anti-Covid protocol also favors these anomalies. The cardiological risk is then potentiated, a fortiori, if there are other associated drugs which have the same undesirable effect, if the oxygenation of the blood is not done well or even if the potassium in the blood is low. Also, these drugs, if prescribed, must be with a monitoring of the ECG at D0 and D2 minimum. "


Your personal opinion on this cocktail?


"It is true that Covid-19 kills, but the remedy should not be more harmful than the disease itself in patients whose spontaneous evolution is favorable and in particular in ambulatory patients."


Pr Emile Ferrari, head of the cardiology department of the Nice University Hospital. Photo DR

Who to believe?

hydroxychloroquine is made by a small pharma company in France.

--

I hope they come up with something promising soon because the mortality rate in the USA


I've sen it go to 2.4 to 2.7, and now 3.2% with 400k infected and 12,800 deaths. This entire


stay at home process appears to be taking it's own toll on many.


I am with you on some parts here – but some things I feel you are taking way out of context.

I agree that I hope we find something soon. I agree that there is some evidence that shows Hydroxychloroquine may not work. It just may not, which is why we need trials and more information specific to this disease.

But I think you are really focused in on the fact that Trump is for it, which has actually helped to make those trials happen. You actually posted an article with a doctor saying the FDA’s actions in this case were “very unusual”. I know that person thought that was a shot at Trump, but it actually speaks to his actions that he is getting things TRIED and trying to save lives rather than just sit back and wait for the normal system to take its course, which will take years.

As further evidence of this, Trump is publicized for saying we should try chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine and you are unusually vocal against its use – but why aren’t you so vocal about the Azithromycin use? Z-Pac is used all the time for non-life threatening situations and has similar risks. But, you know, you could lose your life. But you’re not so vocal against that drug? Have you wondered why that is? The real difference is that we have all heard of Azithromycin even if Trump never said it. A lot of us have probably never heard of Chloroquine before Covid and him supporting it has made it even more well known of course.

More to the point, you keep quoting, “What do you have to lose?” as if that was said in some cavalier fashion. He was talking about people dying from Covid-19 and having no other options. You either lay there and die, or you try this – what do you have to lose? So, in that context, the response, “Your life” is actually one of the dumbest things you could possible say – your life is already circling the drain here. But yeah, keep taking it out of context.

And of course your quote, “Your life” is also out of context because it was not in a conversation with the president, it’s a totally different interview where presentations like, “Trump said, ‘what do you have to lose” will illicit such a response outside of context.

And, yeah, the remedy cannot be worse than the disease. So, is this disease worse than malaria? Or even on par with malaria? Because, it is pretty well established that malaria is way worse than this remedy. Not established in a petri dish like quercetin, but established in actual human beings with controlled studies (Ok – I am assuming here because it has FDA approval, I haven’t looked at the studies).

We have to find a cure AS FAST AS WE CAN. That means we are going to have to fail A LOT, and fail FAST. I am not giving Trump full credit for getting these trials that we do have underway, but he certainly helped promote them. And it may not work. And if it fails – then one failure out of the way, onto the next and let’s get to it quickly.

From what I’ve seen I think it will fail, I am skeptical. But I could be wrong, and I hope I am. It would be nice to hit it out of the park early.

More coming...10,000 words and all...
 
HIT4ME

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It is dangerous.

Trump said: "What have you got to lose?"

The President of the AMA "You could lose your life"

No liberal media bias in that statement.

If you don't watch the "liberal" media, where do you get your news from?
There IS liberal bias in that statement. Show me the transcript of the conversation with Trump and the President of the AMA saying that. It wasn't a conversation or a debate. It's taking things out of context.

Are you implying that if you get Covid, and you go to the hospital, and they want to put you on Hydroxychloroquine/Azithromycin that you should turn it down because you could die? Because, you are beating this drum so loudly it seems like that's what you are saying.

No one is saying it without any risk.

The liberal media is arguing that the drug is unproven, but it really doesn't matter what the liberal or conservative media says. You should be getting information from trial data, which is where a physician would get their information in addition to any official guidelines published within their field.
I actually feel like the media has two roads they are going down. One road is, they are over-presenting any positive trials with this drug (it gives false hope). To a lot of laymen out there, I am sure they think there are dozens of "trials" going on because the same 2-3 sources keep getting repeated over and over as if they're different or new. And it is really hard to find any failures or skepticism among the coverage of the clinical trials (at least relative to getting hit over the head with HCQ being a potential cure constantly).

The other side is how moronic Trump is for pushing an unproven drug. And I think that is part of the reason they want to keep pushing all the positive news over and over - they keep it relevant as long as possible. It's not even necessarily a liberal/conservative thing as much as it is manipulating readership. If we post something may be a ray of hope, it will be relevant and people will want to know more. And if we bash Trump, it will make it even more interesting and people will want to know more. And suddenly we have people reading the same stuff over and over and we get the clicks.

But I agree with you 100% that it shouldn't be a political thing at all. It should be about the merit, which requires actual experiment and observation. Without that, they are just hypothetical ideas.
 
HIT4ME

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And finally, just to poke the bear @justhere4comm -

A study that shows decreased cardiovascular events in Rheumatoid Arthritis Patients:
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/JAHA.115.002867

Like I said...it's far from perfect, but I'm poking the bear here.


Also, here is what the American College of Cardiology has to say about HCQ/Azithromycin for Covid-19:

https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2020/03/27/14/00/ventricular-arrhythmia-risk-due-to-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-treatment-for-covid-19

This one may have something for both of us in it...
 
manifesto

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Trump=the devil

#endthread
 
justhere4comm

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Adjustments.JPG


Wife works in the hospital lab. She is at risk with asthma. She is taking this. If it helps all the better. Got her vitamin C powder on the way.

I am home bound from work.
This is for her. If I can get another bottle for me or her I will.
 
Ape McGrapes

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But will it actually make a difference or is it all just hopes and prayers? I have yet to see a definitive answer. I use Epicor year round, and believe it helps. Anecdotally it has prevented me from catching colds from coworkers while working(construction) in close proximity. Covid-19 has shown to be extremely contagious though. Is there any reason I should believe boosting my immune system will stop it in its tracks?
 
GQdaLEGEND

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Obviously because of what our community is, most of us are more than likely taking measures to boost our immune system. Hypothetically we hope this will keep us from catching the Coronavirus, but is that the case? If exposed, will a strong enough/boosted immune system keep us from catching the virus, just shorten the duration of infection, or are we kidding ourselves?

For example: Here is what I have the girlfriend and I running at the moment. She is a non essential employee in an essential business, so she still goes to work.
Really no study have shown what will keep the virus away but yes never hurt to build a stronger immune system

Honestly this is what every1 should be doing all year around since we don’t get enough from diet

I have my family & friends on and immune system + Vit C ( found 1g /pills .. so easy to dose
 
justhere4comm

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I don't think any thing will stop Covid-19 from infecting, but shortening or reducing one's experience while having it sound more reasonable. How hard it hits when it does is probably a very important aspect. Just like those who've had it but never knew. They thought; low grade temp, some coughing, flu-like symptoms. They were healthy and younger with no underlying issues that would compromise them.

I've seen people crash fast and they died before they had the good sense to call for help.
My wife's uncle died from pneumonia. He thought he'd be ok. He coded when he got to the hospital.
(Not Covid-19)
 
cheftepesh1

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I would have to agree with the above that nothing can stop it, but a stronger immune system may make your experience less than someone who has not boosted their system.
 
Aleksandar37

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But will it actually make a difference or is it all just hopes and prayers? I have yet to see a definitive answer. I use Epicor year round, and believe it helps. Anecdotally it has prevented me from catching colds from coworkers while working(construction) in close proximity. Covid-19 has shown to be extremely contagious though. Is there any reason I should believe boosting my immune system will stop it in its tracks?
Anybody who says one way or the other isn't being honest. We just don't know, but there's always the thought of "well, it doesn't hurt, so why not try because there really isn't anything preventative out there anyway." So in that respect it is at least a little just hopes and prayers, but usually has some science behind it, even if it is just in vitro data.

Any retrospective studies are tough too, because somebody like you who actively takes something to improve their health more than likely does other things to stay healthy as well. So who's to say it wasn't another part of your routine that was keeping you healthy.
 
delsolrob

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there are studies done showing that b-AET (in Invictus and Neuro AET) may increase survival rates for lethal viruses and infections.

 
Ptlhains

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Folks that are in good shape and not to old and don't have any ongoing issues like asthma etc... may barely even notice if they get this virus (not get a fever). This has been said dozens of times by professionals. Am I worried? Not in the least....
 
Aleksandar37

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there are studies done showing that b-AET (in Invictus and Neuro AET) may increase survival rates for lethal viruses and infections.

This study shows that bAET will increase cytokine production, but to what extent? One of the ways that makes COVID-19 deadly is the cytokine response, so how would this not make it worse? Let me be clear that I am NOT saying it does, just curious how we can say one way or the other.

I can't find a copy of the paper as it's not showing up in sci-hub, so I'm only going off the abstract and maybe they provide more details in the article. But they're just using ConA rather than actual virus or infection in a rodent model, so kind of seems like a leap.
 
Olympus Labs

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I've been drinking my Kefir but no there is nothing out there that will prevent you from being infected other than quarantining, practicing social distancing, and washing hands. There is NO supplement out there that will do anything remotely close but ease your anxiety
 
manifesto

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Vitamin C - 5000 mg per day, up this to bowel tolerance when sick.

Vitamin D - 4000iu, 50,000iu when sick

Vitamin A - 5000iu, 100,000iu when sick

Selenium- 100mcg

Zinc- 25 mg
 
manifesto

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I also just started the BLR immune product
 
manifesto

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This will keep you good to go
 
HIT4ME

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So I am not sure anyone can say anything for sure. What we know is this infection creates an aggressive immune response and the immune system's attack on the lungs will actually cause damage to the lung tissue if not controlled.

I can tell you this much, as much quackery is on the internet about Vitamin C, it is accepted as a necessary means of clearing neutrophils from infections and thus reducing necrosis. It is also known to help maintain epithelial barrier function. It can also improve T-cell differentiation, which I hypothesize is very important in avoiding damage from a hypeactive immune response.


Because Vitamin C doesn't stick around for very long normally and gets used up at higher rates during infection, it makes sense that it would be easy to be vitamin C repeated during any infection, and this would lead to impaired immunity, and an impaired ability to remove toxic byproducts from the site of infection.

So, will vitamin C cure this it prevent it? I wouldn't go that far. But could it be very helpful to have onboard when fighting a serious infection? I truly believe so. Even the most sited study saying it does not work showed a dramatic reduction in the severity and duration of colds in highly stressed individuals.

It seems to me like, maintaining healthy epithelial functions, building collagen, etc. MAY help prevent it to some small extent (not a vaccine) - but once you have it, reduction of severity and duration could be just enough to save your life even if it is by 5%.

Or I could just be a vitamin C quack.
 

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Social distancing- absolutely. It absolutely works. It is the only thing that substantially brings down infection rates.

Vitamin C and Zinc seem like no brainers that could at least theoretically help

Jury is still out on things like elderberry but I’m running the new SNS immune product as a safeguard anyway.
 
delsolrob

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This study shows that bAET will increase cytokine production, but to what extent? One of the ways that makes COVID-19 deadly is the cytokine response, so how would this not make it worse? Let me be clear that I am NOT saying it does, just curious how we can say one way or the other.

I can't find a copy of the paper as it's not showing up in sci-hub, so I'm only going off the abstract and maybe they provide more details in the article. But they're just using ConA rather than actual virus or infection in a rodent model, so kind of seems like a leap.
Actually, I haven't been keeping up too much with this...just reading about the cytokine storm potentially instigated by Covid 19

This could be an interesting read then:

Here's some interesting cytokine data from the above:
192581
 
Aleksandar37

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Actually, I haven't been keeping up too much with this...just reading about the cytokine storm potentially instigated by Covid 19

This could be an interesting read then:

Here's some interesting cytokine data from the above:
View attachment 192581
It seems to increase some of the key players while decreasing others, although it'll depend on dosage like anything else and if this all even translates over to humans. Just something to consider.
 
manifesto

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I just figure with a name like "iwilleattuna" that you may have experienced herpes before...
 
Ape McGrapes

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I had a cold for about a week, about a week and a half back. I had lapsed about two weeks on my my usual Epicor. Girlfriend caught it a few days after myself. I was producing more mucas, slight sore throat, and extreme lethargy. Never really got any worse than that. She had developed a cough for about two days, but we both recovered in 5 days or so. Never any fever. I do believe it was just the common cold, and an untimely coincidence, but guess I'll never know...Hopefully I'll never know.
 
thebigt

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I lived in the PI for 7 years. bought my meat and fish at the city market with no refrigeration, flies all over everything all hanging out in the open....my immune system is golden, lol.
 
manifesto

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Iwilleattuna

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In fact, I’m just going to delete my account

edit: nvm you can’t delete your account. Brutal lol
 

Iwilleattuna

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I just don’t get how I have a feminine demeanor but alright 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Aleksandar37

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I just don’t get how I have a feminine demeanor but alright 🤷🏻‍♂️
It's a random stranger on the internet. Either strike back or move on, but don't let it ruin your day. Sorry to tell you, but there will be worse things you'll have to endure in life than hearing the opinion of somebody that doesn't know you.
 

Iwilleattuna

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It's a random stranger on the internet. Either strike back or move on, but don't let it ruin your day. Sorry to tell you, but there will be worse things you'll have to endure in life than hearing the opinion of somebody that doesn't know you.
strike back okay

I choose charizard

use ember on @manifesto

it’s extremely effective
 

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