Bulk N-Carbamylglutamate?

Aoba

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I know this was posted in the science section, but i'm pretty sure this is the main ingredient in BSN's upcoming product NCG-CR and in one of their model's blog the only thing they said was "elevated arginine and growth hormone levels" which is EXACTLY what the study states and NCG is this compound written in shorthand. Their must be some validity behind this product, and if some company has a source on it, i'm sure Dsade could get it! Maybe you could have testers. :djparty:

Opinions?

Besides, i'm sure the bulk powder would be way cheaper than anything BSN sells heh
 
Interesting...very interesting. Let me do some more reading.
 
thesinner critiques this study:

I don't mean to be a Negative Nelly, but there were a couple of things I noticed after reading that study.

One thing I don't really like about this study is that it is comparing NCG vs. NOTHING.

NCG is simply Glutamic acid (the predominant amino acid in whey protein) with an ester attached; therefore, it's almost like saying that taking amino acids used to build proteins increases protein synthesis better than absolutely nothing. How does NCG stand up to ordinary Whey protein?


Another thing I don't really care for about the study is that it only uses two test subjects. This means there's no averages, there's no CoV, nothing statistical whatsoever to report. Is it possible that the NCG test piglet had some sort of genetic advantage? We'll never know because we don't have any other test subjects from the experimental group to compare it to.
 
thesinner said:
thesinner critiques this study:
I don't mean to be a Negative Nelly, but there were a couple of things I noticed after reading that study.
One thing I don't really like about this study is that it is comparing NCG vs. NOTHING.
NCG is simply Glutamic acid (the predominant amino acid in whey protein) with an ester attached; therefore, it's almost like saying that taking amino acids used to build proteins increases protein synthesis better than absolutely nothing. How does NCG stand up to ordinary Whey protein?
Another thing I don't really care for about the study is that it only uses two test subjects. This means there's no averages, there's no CoV, nothing statistical whatsoever to report. Is it possible that the NCG test piglet had some sort of genetic advantage? We'll never know because we don't have any other test subjects from the experimental group to compare it to.
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Okay, I'm like 1/2 awake here (effing caffeine withdrawl) so forgive me if I'm a little incoherent in this post. I took a look at this article abstract and I'd have to agree with sinner on this one that its not too impressive. Good to see people looking at these things critically. :)

Unfortunately, we only have the abstract here. In order to really get a good feel for the validity of the study I'd need to see the full text. I did however, notice a couple things that I think you might have overlooked/misunderstood.

The abstract is a bit confusing and does make it sound like there were only 2 subjects, but if you take a look its stated that N=32...meaning that there were actually 32 studied. Still, whether their results are even statistically significant i dunno.

Next, their control was pretty lousy. They really needed to include a fasted (no NCG group), a fasted (NCG group), a fed (no NCG group), and a fed (no NCG group). In this case we're only looking at a fasted with NCG group vs a fed without NCG group. IMO, this tells us very little about the efficacy of this stuff.

The biggest problem with this study that I see is that plasma somatotroph levels will increase in the fasted state anyways. So of course those pigs showed higher HGH levels. Who knows whether the NCG had anything to do with it.
 
thesinner said:
thesinner critiques this study:

I don't mean to be a Negative Nelly, but there were a couple of things I noticed after reading that study.

One thing I don't really like about this study is that it is comparing NCG vs. NOTHING.

NCG is simply Glutamic acid (the predominant amino acid in whey protein) with an ester attached; therefore, it's almost like saying that taking amino acids used to build proteins increases protein synthesis better than absolutely nothing. How does NCG stand up to ordinary Whey protein?
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n-carbamylglutamate does not break down into glutamate, it stays in its parent form from what i have read
 
Patrick Arnold said:
n-carbamylglutamate does not break down into glutamate, it stays in its parent form from what i have read
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Always glad to hear your input. However, from the information posted in this thread, I do not have enough info or interest to be 'sold' on this as a product or further researching it.

BTW, would NCG be a metabolite of Glutamic acid? I'm assuming that it is, but we all know what happens when you assume.....
 
thesinner said:
Always glad to hear your input. However, from the information posted in this thread, I do not have enough info or interest to be 'sold' on this as a product or further researching it.

BTW, would NCG be a metabolite of Glutamic acid? I'm assuming that it is, but we all know what happens when you assume.....
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NCG is not naturally occuring from what i can gather so no, it would not be a metabolite

its a "metabolically stable" analog of N-acetylglutamate which is supposed to activate an enzyme responsible for arginine synthesis

so this is just an arginine raiser. we already have enough arginine supplements out there. taking a bunch of citrulline should do the same thing but cheaper
 
Patrick Arnold said:
NCG is not naturally occuring from what i can gather so no, it would not be a metabolite

its a "metabolically stable" analog of N-acetylglutamate which is supposed to activate an enzyme responsible for arginine synthesis

so this is just an arginine raiser. we already have enough arginine supplements out there. taking a bunch of citrulline should do the same thing but cheaper
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So can we agree that this is more for a product from one of the "hype" companies rather than someone like ergopharm?
 
thesinner said:
So can we agree that this is more for a product from one of the "hype" companies rather than someone like ergopharm?
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well at this point its not even a product of any company from what i can gather. its something discussed in the literature for applications in animals and for some metabolic diseases in humans

i am not writing this stuff off, i think its good to debate it with an open mind. right now though it just seems to be another way to raise arginine levels in animals and extra arginine of any source in growing pigs etc. will increase growth rate
 
Patrick Arnold said:
well at this point its not even a product of any company from what i can gather. its something discussed in the literature for applications in animals and for some metabolic diseases in humans

i am not writing this stuff off, i think its good to debate it with an open mind. right now though it just seems to be another way to raise arginine levels in animals and extra arginine of any source in growing pigs etc. will increase growth rate
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I get what you mean, and didnt' mean to come off the way I did in that previous post. A good scientist always keeps an open mind.

At the same time, I could so see someone seeing that it raises arginine and GH levels and throwing together yet another 'Nitric Oxide' product using this ingredient as their 'edge'.
 
thesinner said:
I get what you mean, and didnt' mean to come off the way I did in that previous post. A good scientist always keeps an open mind.

At the same time, I could so see someone seeing that it raises arginine and GH levels and throwing together yet another 'Nitric Oxide' product using this ingredient as their 'edge'.
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i am sure we are just days away from that

yeah it sucks but its better than putting an ingredient with completely made up science behind it. at least this has at least one study of interest with it
 
We could always ship a baggie of NCG to some soviets and they'll 'prove' it's more effective than Dianabol.
 
So the BSN product was supposed to come out in 2007 or 08 and never came to fruition. Any idea what happened?
 
custom said:
The legality is in question as I believe it has an orphaned drug status.
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I looked into it a few years ago and i could not find anything that identified it as natural either. Now that does not absolutely exclude it from being a compliant supplement since a company can file it as a New Dietary Ingredient with the FDA and if the FDA does not object its presumably not illegal to sell
 
Patrick Arnold said:
I looked into it a few years ago and i could not find anything that identified it as natural either. Now that does not absolutely exclude it from being a compliant supplement since a company can file it as a New Dietary Ingredient with the FDA and if the FDA does not object its presumably not illegal to sell
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Well considering all the supplements that consit of two natural compounds bonded to make something new, if this stuff isn't natural by those standards, then Im not interested.
 
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