Best Nooptropic for Dementia

Ptlhains

Ptlhains

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My Mom has Dementia and is 89 yrs old. The Dementia has not been too bad until the last 6 months where her short term memory is really getting bad.

What do you think could help my Mom's brain? ty...
 
thebigt

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IN FOR REPLIES...my mom turns 87 this month. dementia runs in the family, but only seems to affect the females?
 
ValiantThor08

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Creatine (serious)
Cod liver oil
Synapsa, a patented extract of Bacopa
KSM66 Ashwagandha extract
 

stimtron

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My Mom has Dementia and is 89 yrs old. The Dementia has not been too bad until the last 6 months where her short term memory is really getting bad.

What do you think could help my Mom's brain? ty...
Her doctor doesn't have her on anything?
 
ValiantThor08

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Lions Mane as well. 1.5 to 3g a day. Been studied to reverse dementia in rats.
 
Ptlhains

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Her doctor doesn't have her on anything?
She is on some things from her dr...for anti stroke anti seizure. I am planning an appoinment to if her dr can prescribe anything (but i doubt they will). This has been a slow decline for many years and been known and treated by her drs (neurolgist, psych and gp).
 
Ptlhains

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Lions Mane as well. 1.5 to 3g a day. Been studied to reverse dementia in rats.
What source would u recommend. I personally have tried Pure Bulk's powder and gotten only a little result (but its cheap compared to others).
 
THOR 70

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I think I remember seeing something on MCT oil for dementia. Cant remember the MOA but probably has something to do with ketone bodies. Best of luck
 
ValiantThor08

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What source would u recommend. I personally have tried Pure Bulk's powder and gotten only a little result (but its cheap compared to others).
The nootropics depot brand is quality.
 

stimtron

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What source would u recommend. I personally have tried Pure Bulk's powder and gotten only a little result (but its cheap compared to others).
Get a quality clinically studied form like Amyloban. It's far more potent than any Lion's mane and standardized for ngf factors.
 

stimtron

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She is on some things from her dr...for anti stroke anti seizure. I am planning an appoinment to if her dr can prescribe anything (but i doubt they will). This has been a slow decline for many years and been known and treated by her drs (neurolgist, psych and gp).
I suggest the following:

Hydergine, a potent racetam like oxi, ani, or prami racetam, cdp-choline, andrographis for neuroinflammation, cbd with thc or palmitoylethanolamide for the cannabinoid system, Hup A, and maybe kanna which blocks some brain aging enzymes.
 
HIT4ME

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First thing - get her bloods and look for anomalies. Take a list of her medications. Avoid anti-acetycholinergic drugs (benedryl for instance).

Agmatine is incredibly helpful in the elderly. It has been shown to reverse dementia and alzheimers in mouse models, is backed by peripheral studies lonking arginine depletion to alzheimers and dementia, protects against TIA and stroke damage, etc.

Chances are with someone that age, they are probably on blood thinners. If they are, I would be very, very cautious about giving them anything herbal.

Lots of stuff out there shows promise, very little delivers any true world benefit. I have had my grandmother on Agmatine and it has helped in numerous ways, but it isn't going to stop time.
 
HIT4ME

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The protein suggestion is a good one too. Most elderly are protein deficient, and face sarcopnia, and low blood albumin which effects a number of health and drug processes.

Again, a list of medications she is on is pretty necessary before giving much advice - you would hate to give her something with the intent of helping only to find out it had an interaction that may have been minor in normal people but could be catastrophic in the elderly. Most doctors won't have a clue about anything herbal and my grandmother's dr. has OKd things I had to put the brakes on because it would interact and the dr. didn't know.
 
HIT4ME

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Oh, and if she is on a blood thinner, I would be REALLY careful about any cannabanoid activation. She probably doesn't need to go through blood transfusions.
 
HIT4ME

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She is on some things from her dr...for anti stroke anti seizure. I am planning an appoinment to if her dr can prescribe anything (but i doubt they will). This has been a slow decline for many years and been known and treated by her drs (neurolgist, psych and gp).
I missed this one. This would negate most nootropics in my opinion. A lot of times though, elderly get diagnosed with dementia and it isn't dementia at all. It is actually delirium. There are a lot of things that can contribute to neurological deficits in the elderly. They can look like dementia but if you can pinpoint the underlying cause, and correct it, there function will come back. But it isn't always easy to pinpoint.
 
thebigt

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First thing - get her bloods and look for anomalies. Take a list of her medications. Avoid anti-acetycholinergic drugs (benedryl for instance).

Agmatine is incredibly helpful in the elderly. It has been shown to reverse dementia and alzheimers in mouse models, is backed by peripheral studies lonking arginine depletion to alzheimers and dementia, protects against TIA and stroke damage, etc.

Chances are with someone that age, they are probably on blood thinners. If they are, I would be very, very cautious about giving them anything herbal.

Lots of stuff out there shows promise, very little delivers any true world benefit. I have had my grandmother on Agmatine and it has helped in numerous ways, but it isn't going to stop time.
any drug interactions to watch for with agmatine?
 
HIT4ME

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any drug interactions to watch for with agmatine?
There are some that I know of - mostly positive. I am more than happy to look into any drugs if either you or the OP want to PM me a list or discuss my experience. I am no doctor but I have had a lot of experience with my own grandmother.

The reason I got my grandmother on it was because she was using opioids for chronic pain. The agmatine reduces tolerance to opioids and has helped us to reduce her dose from 50 mcg/hr of fentanyl and 25 mg/oxycodone per day to just 5 mg of oxycodone per day. There were other factors, but ir certainly helped.

It is also good for pain, depression and anxiety itself...although very minor.

It gies well with opioids, SSRIs, anxiety meds, etc. because of these effects.

In theory it could have a transient blood pressure lowering effect.

In other words, a lot of the interactions will warrant a lower dose of the drugs being needed and should not be dangerous.

The CYP450 interactions for agmatine are almost non-existent it seems as well, so it isn't like a grapefruit type effect, it won't effect the pharmacology of the drugs directly in most cases.

My grandmother is on warfarin and we have had no issues with the blood thinners, etc.

I may be forgetting something, but if you have a drug in question and I can help I will.
 
Ptlhains

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There are some that I know of - mostly positive. I am more than happy to look into any drugs if either you or the OP want to PM me a list or discuss my experience. I am no doctor but I have had a lot of experience with my own grandmother.

The reason I got my grandmother on it was because she was using opioids for chronic pain. The agmatine reduces tolerance to opioids and has helped us to reduce her dose from 50 mcg/hr of fentanyl and 25 mg/oxycodone per day to just 5 mg of oxycodone per day. There were other factors, but ir certainly helped.

It is also good for pain, depression and anxiety itself...although very minor.

It gies well with opioids, SSRIs, anxiety meds, etc. because of these effects.

In theory it could have a transient blood pressure lowering effect.

In other words, a lot of the interactions will warrant a lower dose of the drugs being needed and should not be dangerous.

The CYP450 interactions for agmatine are almost non-existent it seems as well, so it isn't like a grapefruit type effect, it won't effect the pharmacology of the drugs directly in most cases.

My grandmother is on warfarin and we have had no issues with the blood thinners, etc.

I may be forgetting something, but if you have a drug in question and I can help I will.
Gonna get a list for you. ty Bro...
 
HIT4ME

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Gonna get a list for you. ty Bro...
Cool. Hope I can help. Like I said, I am not a doctor, just a disclaimer. But I will share what I know and can back up.
 
thebigt

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Cool. Hope I can help. Like I said, I am not a doctor, just a disclaimer. But I will share what I know and can back up.
you re a good man, thank you!!!
 

Irishobrien

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I missed this one. This would negate most nootropics in my opinion. A lot of times though, elderly get diagnosed with dementia and it isn't dementia at all. It is actually delirium. There are a lot of things that can contribute to neurological deficits in the elderly. They can look like dementia but if you can pinpoint the underlying cause, and correct it, there function will come back. But it isn't always easy to pinpoint.
IIRC he said this has been progressing for years I.e. not delirium

Agmatine has nearly no bioavailability and an exceedingly transient half-life. It is actually labeled as “non-drug like” in most pharmacology sim databases.

Looking at anticholinergic drugs is a great idea as many elderly have extensive lists of medications which can impact cognitive reserve.

Short of cancer pain, there is no indication for chronic opioids.

This won’t be a popular opinion but there is literally nothing that can reverse dementia *once it is clinically apparent.* Monoclonal Ab’s Have been developed which can eradicate amyloid and tau in the brain and do not impact progression. This is because the organic mechanical damage to the neuron and neuronal circuits has already passed threshold for recovery. The trick is for earlier screening interventions.

As far as neuronal / symptomatic salvage, acetylcholine esterase inhibitors May prolong activity of daily living but again will not impact progression and most will have limited objective benefit.

*Early* cognitive impairment is best served by minimizing vascular risk factors (especially blood pressure and diabetes), low carbohydrate diets, and caloric restriction for those with metabolic syndrome. Supplement wise, Niagen, galantamine, DHA, possibly Ach sources (CDP choline, alpha GPC).

Source: I am a neurologist.
 
HIT4ME

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IIRC he said this has been progressing for years I.e. not delirium

Agmatine has nearly no bioavailability and an exceedingly transient half-life. It is actually labeled as “non-drug like” in most pharmacology sim databases.

Looking at anticholinergic drugs is a great idea as many elderly have extensive lists of medications which can impact cognitive reserve.

Short of cancer pain, there is no indication for chronic opioids.

This won’t be a popular opinion but there is literally nothing that can reverse dementia *once it is clinically apparent.* Monoclonal Ab’s Have been developed which can eradicate amyloid and tau in the brain and do not impact progression. This is because the organic mechanical damage to the neuron and neuronal circuits has already passed threshold for recovery. The trick is for earlier screening interventions.

As far as neuronal / symptomatic salvage, acetylcholine esterase inhibitors May prolong activity of daily living but again will not impact progression and most will have limited objective benefit.

*Early* cognitive impairment is best served by minimizing vascular risk factors (especially blood pressure and diabetes), low carbohydrate diets, and caloric restriction for those with metabolic syndrome. Supplement wise, Niagen, galantamine, DHA, possibly Ach sources (CDP choline, alpha GPC).

Source: I am a neurologist.
Great post - and yeah, the gradual decline does point to dementia. But gradual can be dependant on what exactly they are observing. Sometimes families see memory issues and slight confusion, that slowly turns into something more profound, like a sudden hallucination or loss of executive function, and they will describe it as gradual when really the newest item is more accute.

But yeah, I agree with being more gradual being more like the progression of dementia.

And I wholeheartedly agree that at some point it is like pissing in the wind trying to come up with natural substances to combat complex issues like this. People shouldn't get false hope or try to fully reverse damage that is already done.

As far as agmatine - not sure I agree on the bioavailability statement but you are correcy about the half life and elimination topic. Agmatine will not remain as agmatine in the system for very long. Its presense in plasma may only last minutes in a lot of cases, from what I have read, but it may remain in certain tissues longer.

Fortunately, IMO, agmatine does not need to stay agmatine to benefit dementia patients. Maybe I am wrong, but my reasoning is based on Dr. Carol Colton's work on Alzheimers and arginine deficiency.

She did show, albeit in mice, that DMFO reversed cognitive deficits on AD model mice. Now...IMO we lack a definitive pathology to alzheimers so two strikes - mice and the model itself.

But this research, to me, points toward a possoble pathology related to immune response and possible infection of some sort (I believe many diseases cause the over expression of arginase to cripple the immune response).

Arginine would be worthless in this scenario because it doesn't cross the BBB.

Agmatine, however. does cross the BBB, does inhibit arginase, retains much of the functionality if arginine and also increases arginine levels better than oral arginine.

Complete wild a$$ guess here, but norvaline may also have a benefit from this angle.

Additionally, the NO mediated effects of agm will improve cardiovascular health which should help delay the progression of dementia.

But to your point - not expecting much if any reversal and theory, not fact.

I still think it has health benefits regardless and is probably one of the best shots without creating a coctail of a handful of unknown drugs/ingredients that may just create more polypharmacy.

Would love to hear your thoughts on that mkre, given you actually know what you are talking about and I probably don't know what I don't know.
 
HIT4ME

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Also, glad to hear your views on opioids. I share this view...acute, end of life or possibly surgical treatment, but definately no chronic application. Wish more doctors saw this sooner.
 
thebigt

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Also, glad to hear your views on opioids. I share this view...acute, end of life or possibly surgical treatment, but definately no chronic application. Wish more doctors saw this sooner.
doctors have definitely cut back on prescribing opioids...in their defense many were concerned with quality of life issues from chronic pain...there are very few effective alternatives available for those who suffer from serious chronic pain that interferes with living a normal active life.
 

mavup

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IIRC he said this has been progressing for years I.e. not delirium

Agmatine has nearly no bioavailability and an exceedingly transient half-life. It is actually labeled as “non-drug like” in most pharmacology sim databases.

Looking at anticholinergic drugs is a great idea as many elderly have extensive lists of medications which can impact cognitive reserve.

Short of cancer pain, there is no indication for chronic opioids.

This won’t be a popular opinion but there is literally nothing that can reverse dementia *once it is clinically apparent.* Monoclonal Ab’s Have been developed which can eradicate amyloid and tau in the brain and do not impact progression. This is because the organic mechanical damage to the neuron and neuronal circuits has already passed threshold for recovery. The trick is for earlier screening interventions.

As far as neuronal / symptomatic salvage, acetylcholine esterase inhibitors May prolong activity of daily living but again will not impact progression and most will have limited objective benefit.

*Early* cognitive impairment is best served by minimizing vascular risk factors (especially blood pressure and diabetes), low carbohydrate diets, and caloric restriction for those with metabolic syndrome. Supplement wise, Niagen, galantamine, DHA, possibly Ach sources (CDP choline, alpha GPC).

Source: I am a neurologist.
Sorry to bump this, but it doesn’t look like I can pm you. I’m starting medical school this year, and am looking at incorporating some of the nootropic advice from your old posts on here/your blog/other forums.

Is galantamine still one of your favorite nootropics? Also, what do you think about some of the research that galantamine isn’t a nicotinic pam in humans? Do you have any thoughts on tropisetron?
 
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Irishobrien

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Sorry to bump this, but it doesn’t look like I can pm you. I’m starting medical school this year, and am looking at incorporating some of the nootropic advice from your old posts on here/your blog/other forums.

Is galantamine still one of your favorite nootropics? Also, what do you think about some of the research that galantamine isn’t a nicotinic pam in humans? Do you have any thoughts on tropisetron?
a lot of my opinions have changed, yes. I now recommend against alpha GPC. I’ve written about it recently.
 

mavup

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a lot of my opinions have changed, yes. I now recommend against alpha GPC. I’ve written about it recently.
I did see that, and believe you said Cdp-choline does not share the same byproducts/effects.

Do you still recommend galantamine? I’m thinking of doing galantamine/Cdp-choline/alcar/DHA. But if that could be improved, I’d be interested, too.
 
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