Anyone worried if Corona virus keeps spreading the gyms will shut down?

JoePaul39

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Just curious as if it happens it would really suck! Would have to have a set of dumbbells delivered to work out for the months the gym would be closed down!
 
Ricky10

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Just a little update here from what I have experienced at work for anyone interested:

I have been off for the past 2 days, which was a much needed rest which came just in time. I am back at it tomorrow, and volunteered to take the COVID positive unit. When I last worked in the unit 2 days ago, I still had my one ventilated patient, and another very nice man with CHF as a comorbidity that was on High Flow Oxygen. He struggled for 5 days in hopes that things would get better, but his inflammatory markers were on a steady rise. I was present with the covering pulmonologist (who is awesome) during many of the difficult conversations regarding when the pt wanted to make the decision to go on mechanical ventilation.

The pulmonologist explained to the pt that his labs are looking worse daily, and mechanical ventilation was imminent but the earlier it was initiated, the better his chances would be of survival. He gave the patient the choice of waiting and just hoping, or being placed on a ventilator and gave the patient a 60% chance of survival in that scenario. The patient subsequently agreed to me placed on the vent.

I remained in the room as I had to get all of the equipment ready for intubation, and setup the vent. Meanwhile, the pt called his family and said his “goodbyes“ in the event he does not survive. That was very sad. After the call, he asked me how I thought he would do. I like to promote positivity and positive thinking for my patients, but I honestly did have a gut feeling that he was going to make it out of this alive, and I told him that. I also assured him that he has a very committed team that will do all we can for him.

He is anticipated to be on the ventilator for approximately 1 week, and I look forward to seeing how he is doing tomorrow. Given the situation and everything he had already been through, I found myself with tears in my eyes when I drove home. I have never found myself getting that emotional throughout my 9 years in the profession.
 
BamBam54

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The economic shutdown will certainly cause some poverty, and poverty can create health issues.
But given the choose between poor and dead... most people will still choose poor.
That is a pretty solid fact too.

If anything, I think the curve will flatten and the economy can creep open a bit more.... until the deaths rise and restrictions tighten. The cycle of many small curves, recommended in the models as best possible hope until a vaccine is developed. But remember the virus is still here and still trying to infect 60-80% of the entire population on earth until herd immunity or a vaccine.

As stated earlier... one thing we don't yet know is how many people were infected and never even showed enough symptoms to demand/require urgent testing. If the number is very high that is good news because it lowers the overall fatality rate (maybe from the current US number of 4% down to 2% or 1%?). That same information is also bad news because it means the virus spreads even faster and farther than currently thought (R=2.5) which again makes the virus more dangerous. Can't cherry pick data without looking at both the good and bad aspects.
 
GreenMachineX

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That's a great article.
What's your response? What could we have done differently then?
I agree with you; we should’ve locked down earlier. What I think is most interesting is South Korea didn’t make it a law to stay home because their people seem to trust their government more. To be completely honest, I don’t think our government is to blame for most of what we are experiencing. We, the people, are to blame for all of this. Our self righteous attitudes and so-called rights and freedom (just lulz on the definition of freedom) are to blame for the epidemic in America. The man who got on a plane to visit his parents while waiting for his COVID-19 test results is to blame. And our government (both sides) have to deal a population of people that are stuck to their political side as opposed to seeing individual issues for what they are (again, both sides). Lastly, all of these are just thoughts and I’m sure not well-articulated since I’m posting this between rounds of Fortnite with my kids! lol

P.S. The freedom argument drives me crazy, btw. I’ve been in plenty of situations in my life where freedom was truly regulated (Army Basic Training for example) and what we have in the US as a regular citizen is an overabundance of “freedom”. We are a nation of spoiled brats.
 
Ricky10

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Ricky - question - I'm an admitted Vitamin C quack - has your hospital used Vitamin C or Mucomyst in any of these patients?
No additional vitamin C, and nothing that qualifies as a supplement per say...just standard tube feeds if vented. They are all getting hydoxychloro and azithro..

We have not done any Mucomyst yet and that probably won’t be a standard. Only one of the patients I have had on the vent had really tenacious secretions which is generally what we reserve that for. The other 3 vents had insignificant secretions. I hope that remains the case overall..
 
Ricky10

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explain? using cpap machines in place of ventilators?
We won’t be :)

On a vent- Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP) is referred to as Positive End-Expiratory Pressure (PEEP), but they are the same thing. I just referred to it as CPAP before because most people are familiar with that term.

As I kind of mentioned before though, we may be using our hospital BIPAPs as vents, as they can deliver a set inspiratory pressure above the PEEP/CPAP. This results in a breath, and when hooked on to the end of an endotracheal tube rather than a mask- the pt is being mechanically ventilated.
 

jrock645

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lol, the left wing media called hydroxychloro and zpack trumps snake oil.
It's crazy how out of hand the conversation on this has gotten. To the best of my knowledge, Trump has never called this drug combo a cure for coronavirus. He has pushed it as a viable treatment option, which clearly many dr's seem to agree with(since it seems to be fairly commonly used), and it's about all we really have right now. I don't understand what everyones issue is with him advocating for it.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Yes, I fell off the wagon the last couple days....feel like crap. I'm going back to focusing on not touching any booze again. I recently went 6 months sober.
My dad has 30-something years sober. If you need sometime to talk to, I can ask if he’d be willing to talk to you. I know there’s online meetings going on and whatnot, but I don’t know how your support system is ATM.
 
BamBam54

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In my local area, a family went out to dinner and apparently had covid for dessert. 4 dead, 3 on ventilators. If the hospital beds were full, it would have been 7 dead. No one expected to die that day or month or year. They just had a family dinner in an area laced with a deadly virus.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/19/health/new-jersey-coronavirus-family-members-killed/index.html

Same with nursing homes. People there are old and could die any time. One year, two years, five years? In the age range of 60-80... you would have a 20 year range on who might die when. Some people live to 100! But if someone over 60 years old catches coronavirus, the odds are over 10-12% they will be dead in a month.

Or back to the dopey car analogy... old people die in car accidents too. More than middle age people. So if an old person dies in a car accident... is it really a car accident or were they just going to die anyway??
 
muscleupcrohn

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Dr. Phil dropping some truth
Isn’t Dr. Phil not even licensed? Again, anyone comparing COVID to car accidents has a fundamental misunderstanding of the spread of infectious diseases...
E7F77AA8-9123-43CD-B982-92A4798CE4D6-10980-00000D8C96208274.JPG


Edit: and he’s talking about loneliness being associated with increased coronary artery disease. That’s LONG term correlations. Being lonely for even a few months is NOT going to give people coronary artery disease. He’s being intentionally misleading with “statistics.” It’s one thing to claim that some people will commit suicide and/or even starve, and that is terrible, and should try to be minimized for sure, but to claim that lockdown for a month or two will lead to a significant increase in coronary artery disease is asinine, and entirely unsubstantiated...
 
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Power-Lift

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The libtard media never report on anything that a liberal "leader" does, maybe in a quick passing sentence.
Remember Obama flaunting his stiffy to female reports on an airplane back in 2008? No, you never heard of that one?
They acted like spoiled/retarded children since Orange-Man took office. He's nuts too, but the country was doing great as they tried and tried to disrupt him, and the USA in general. (Let Marathon bombers vote, open flood gates for illegals and let them vote, etc). Really insane and dangerous retards these whacky libturds. They are happy about the Chinese hoax virus that stopped a world economy, anything to see Trump fail. Dumb kuntz.
 
Ricky10

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I dont know the mentality of the people in the US and how serious you all take this but looking from outside this what is happening seems dangerous to us who have gone through various revolutions, wars and fascist/communist/authoritarian regimes.

Not talking about covid talking about all these protests and riots.
It’s the perfect storm of propaganda and far too many citizens willing to hop on board with misinformation. The media shows us everything to stir the pot, but never mention newsworthy events that contradict their agendas. COVID was/is a big enough strain on everyone, but these protests and riots are tearing our country apart in all the other aspects that COVID wasn’t able to impact.

It all stemmed from media hyped racism presumptions involving law enforcement (to briefly summarize), but these protests, riots, etc are actually creating a real resurgence of racism and violence on a large scale. Now the safety of all races is more of a threat than ever in the general public, and the police have nothing to do with that. First, we let China dismantle our country with the China virus, and now left wing extremists and their bands of protestors are going to make it a race to the finish line to destroy it.
 
Smont

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Honestly I could give 2 fuks less, until I or someone I know gets it, its like it don't exist to me. I'm not spending my days worried. Im just taking her word on this because her department has regular meetings about everything health in the us if it relates to there job
 
Ricky10

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One thing that makes this more dangerous than the flu is that it’s potentially airborne as opposed to droplet.

Droplet: (like flu)- safe zone is approximately 6 ft away from an infected person coughing/sneezing

Airborne: - virus is a smaller size, and can remain suspended in air for much longer and thus travel further as well.


Also, Covid-19 can live on surfaces up to 9 days while the flu is only about 2 days.

So yes, it’s likely more infectious and has a greater mortality rate (percentage I should say). Still, the chances of healthy individuals experiencing significant health issues from the virus appear to be very low.

I work as a respiratory therapist at a hospital. While I can’t say much, let’s just say we had our first Coronavirus threat, and it was utter chaos that was very poorly handled by the CDC- who has the authority to call all the shots case per case.

Personally, it doesn’t really scare me much, and I look forward to all the drama being over.
 
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Ricky10

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I had heard that those of us who have had pneumonia in the past, would be more susceptible to the virus' more serious effects. Do you believe that to be true from what you've learned?
I have not come across anything that has discussed that specifically (a quick google didn’t show anything either), so this is just based on my general knowledge and what I would tell a pt unless we find out otherwise..

People who have had a prior pneumonia that was severe enough to cause a chronic lung impairment through tissue damage, would be at higher risk for more severe complications from this virus if it were to pass beyond the upper respiratory tract. If a prior pneumonia didn't affect the integrity of someone’s lung(s), there would be no reason to believe that they are at greater risk of severe illness than anyone else.
 
Mathb33

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So how much lbs of lean muscle y’all lost today? Probably lost between 2 to 15 lbs of lean tissue personally since the gym shutdowns. The end is near. After serious calculations I’ll be negative 5 lbs within 2 weeks. Just casually in bed right now reminiscing the good times were I was buff
 
xR1pp3Rx

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if you want to get your eyes opened.. watch Dr Centino lay out the real deal on corona19 ... you will sleep better after you watch him dispel all the myths.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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a lot of weather fluctuations going on here in Indiana, still chance to catch the 'regular' flu...is death more likely for a youngster who has the flu and catches coronavirus?
youngsters are unaffected by corona
 
maximillia

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I didn't say that ALL people care.

You could probably show me that some don't care (I could).
And I know for a fact that (given the right opportunity) I could show you that some most definitely do.

Everybody gets cyclical sometimes, my friend.
It's just not a good place to live.
Can I tip my fedora in your general direction? I agree. Sorry, I am in gym withdrawal. I didn't think the day would arrive when I would have to join the ranks of the filthy unpure calisthenics freaks. Just the word sends a shiver down your spine.
 
HIT4ME

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Since we are dealing in wishes...the cheapest and most effective solution to this problem would be for America to just "build" a vaccine already. How hard can it be? War time effort.
 
puccah8808

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What about the dad that saved all is hard earned dollars for his whole life to put his kids through college debt free? Or what about the kids that worked a full time job and went to college full time to not incur student loan debt? It wouldn’t be fair to pay off student loan debt for everyone and the people that worked hard so no student loan debt was incurred gets nothing but higher taxes to pay off the debt of others , would it? I have $15,000 of student loan debt (use to be $25,000) and it was my choice to incur it and I am not asking the government to just pay it off.

Also, President Trump has already offered and enacted a forbearance opportunity of student loan debt to those effected by losing their jobs so they don’t have to make payments in the interim and waived ALL student loan interest during this period so why on earth does $10,000 of student loan debt forgiveness have to be part of the bill?
I agree. After I graduate in May, I’ll have about $104k in student loan debt. It’s mine and I intend to pay it. It’s not the government’s fault that I chose to go to school and take out loans.
 
thebigt

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here is what mayor pete said about free college....American's who have a college degree earn more than those who don't. as a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea a majority who earn less because they didn't go to college subsidize a minority who earn more because they did.

needless to say mayor pete caught a lot of criticism from the Bernie bros.
 
HIT4ME

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This is my theory. Tell me If I am wrong. I feel that we are basically testing how long the worldwide economy can hold out in this quarantine. After that time ends, and I have no clue how long that is, the disease will blow up again. I don't believe the spread of this disease can be stopped and I don't think anybody else does either. It seems to me to be common sense that the curve can be flattened only so long as people can stay home, which clearly isn't forever.

The question I am struggling with right now is, will the disease blow up exactly like it would have after the curfews end? Care to comment? If the answer is yes, then I am worried the quarantine will do more bad than good. Like I said previously, in this case, the only merit of the quarantine would have been additional time provided for more makeshift medical facilities, which is ongoing across the world. That would be cool. So I guess that does justify the quarantine. Maybe we will end up having cyclical shut downs- start up, disease blows up, shut down, repeat. That's probably extremely impractical.

To be honest with you right now, I am more afraid of an economic collapse than the disease. That's not just because I am young. Some young people have died from the disease as well, I am not invincible. It's just, I don't want to frickin starve.
Also, If you are worried about some loved one, isolate them, for such a time when the quarantine ends.
I am always for questioning assumptions and this post does that. It is good to question common accepted thoughts.

I think you COULD be right. But a few things could happen. With social distancing that need to be accounted for:

1. I believe the following is possible: this is a novel virus. It needs to replicate in a living organism in order to "survive". If it is not allowed to infect anything, it could die off and be gone. This is unlikely since it would mean we would have to reach a point where no living humans at all are infected and any other animals it could potentially infect.

2. The warm weather could effect it and it could die off (again wishful thinking)

3. We could discover improved treatment for the disease - vaccines, protections, treatments that reduce mortality rates. This is the most likely solution, IMO. If we get a vaccine, this becomes a MUCH less impactful issue. If we reduce the mortality rate, rates if infection, etc. - this becomes much less if an issue.

All of these outcomes require time, and the lack of social distancing will reduce time and increase deaths immediately. We have run multiple tests now to prove this. China was locked down. Italy, less so and the results were far more devastating. The US is following a similar curve...less adherence and rapidly increasing effects.

But, questioning where the line is, is intelligent. Trump said it himself I believe - the cure cannot be worse than the disease. Short term, I think this makes sense. And we may have to go into cycles of work and quarantine until we figure out a better treatment.

As far as questioning norms - it seems appropriate here to mention Ignaz Samelweiss during this time. He questioned norms and was ridiculed heavily for it. And all we hear during this epidemic is the advice he pioneered.
 

Whisky

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gyms maybe...but I think the supplement market will boom-once they are proven safe and not tainted by Chinese manufacturers.
i think gyms will suffer as so many people (in the uk anyway) have brought home gym equipment. 3 months is a decent time to get used to training at home and it’s way more convenient and quicker. I think a lot of people will carry it on (especially if we have periods of enforced closures etc over the next year)
 
HIT4ME

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Trump has fukt up big time on this one. I cant imagine any justification for his "strategy" to date.
I am curious what you see here as being the fault of one man? Obviously, I don't want to turn this into a political debate too much, but with a cut and dry statement like that, I'd like more information about what exactly he did and what he should have done?
 
HIT4ME

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at least there is 350 million in there for refugees and immigration . :mad:
Yeah, this sounds like something Republicans would come up with behind closed doors. Let's send money to the refugees and immigrants!

Unless by $350M for refugees and immigrants you mean for walls, fences, land mines and ammo.
 
Ricky10

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The world has a fookin obesity problem....I go out for a couple items and people have multiple 2liters of SODA in each hand🤦‍♂️ ...So not only are these fat asses getting less activity than usual, they’ve upped their poor nutrition habits.
Our society doesn’t have much to do right now for pleasurable activities and many people are stressed. Comfort eating is surely on the rise...haha

Meanwhile, they banned ICU Covid workers from the hospital cafeteria starting tomorrow. It’s not a horrendous idea, but they gave us no solution as to how we are supposed to get food or water for lunch. To me, it’s a no brainer that the very least they could do is provide us with free food and water in an area of their choice.
 

Whisky

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Few posts above about fatality rates......

these are somewhat misleading when comparing country to country as the differences in testing are vast.

for example, South Korea tested everyone they suspected, this picking up on many who had mild symptoms, low fatality rate in percentage terms compared to the Uk who early on only tested those hospitalised, therefore not recording those well enough to stay at home and recover. Fatality rate will always look higher where your majority of testing is on those I’ll enough with it to be hospitalised.

I believe the USA has been testing fairly extensively?

the amount of testing will also throw out total case numbers - the UK is significantly higher than the recorded numbers. The US clearly has scope for most cases based on population size

but none of that really matters

what matters is the people dying through lack of equipment (I.e deaths that otherwise may have been preventable).

If a healthcare system has the infrastructure and equipment to deal with massive numbers in a short space of time then just let it spread. It can’t be stopped and the population will build immunity.

the reason that can’t be allowed to happen is that no healthcare system in the world can cope with that volume needing ICU and ventilation.

Having a 1% fatality rate is nothing to be proud of if 80% of the population get the virus - just think how many millions of deaths that is.

the spread has to be slowed down to allow healthcare systems to give people a fair chance. Many will die but less than need to.

Over in the UK we have two polar opposite leaders of the main parties in agreement. Corbyn is a hard left wing socialist (pretty much a communist) and Johnson is as far right wing capitalist as we’ve had for many many years. These two fucking hate each other, over brexit it was crazy arguing yet on this not one bit of disagreement over what needs to be done.
 
Ricky10

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Good article about why forecasts are lately being revised down.
https://reason.com/2020/03/27/no-british-epidemiologist-neil-ferguson-has-not-drastically-downgraded-his-worst-case-projection-of-covid-19-deaths/

Meanwhile death toll keeps rising fast. Still doubling about every 4 days. That's gotta mean a horrible rush on limited hospital beds/people/equipment. I hope we don;t ever reach THAT breaking point! Really appreciate the @Ricky10 updates from the front lines!
Still just 3 positive COVIDS in my intensive care unit...all men. One is planned to be sent home to self quarantine on Monday, after his last dose of hydroxychloroquin. I believe they are all receiving that for for 5 days.

My other guy is kind of circling the drain, requiring 40-50% oxygen via a high flow nasal cannula (super nasal cannula in layman’s terms). While he looks reasonably OK, he has bilateral lung infiltrates and I wouldn’t be shocked if I walk in tomorrow morning to find find him on a ventilator. He’s a very nice guy and VERY scared...I try to keep him thinking positive. He has been coughing up blood which is obviously scary for him. He told me that if he gets over this, he is going to make sure none of his family travels anywhere, and that he is going to isolate himself in a desert until the virus is history. Those were his words, and we laughed together a little bit. :)

Today was day 2 for my vented patient, also with bilateral infiltrates and his lungs are in pretty bad shape. He has to stay very sedated for us to be able to ventilate him appropriately, and may ultimately end up requiring paralytics so we can take full control. The mortality rate once things progress to mechanical ventilation for COVID-19 patients is 80%- this is directly from my pulmonologists. I am going to have to dig deeper than usual into my bag of tricks if I am to keep this guy out of that 80% bracket.

I can’t imagine when I start getting more vented COVIDS- they are very sick and require a great deal of ventilator manipulation/management. While all 3 patients have comorbidities, none of those are significantly active problems at this time- they all got to this point from COVID-19 itself.
 
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thebigt

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lol...people dumping on tump.

can you imagine if Hillary [or any other democrat]were president with her/their open border policies....I bet the flights from china would not have been cancelled since they criticized trump for doing so. closing the Mexican border-I don't think so? this country would be in much worse shape under democratic control-I would bet money on it!!!

trump is polling at 60% approval for his handling of this crisis.
 
BamBam54

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What the hell? Are you saying people are doing this with 'glee'?
That's kind of sick. I'd call it a call for support. A loud call for the need that isn't being fulfilled.
Don't 'what about -- Gulf War' this.
Any response that tries to dodge with the 'what about' gimmick is bullshit. If it happened, it happened. You can't selectively ignore history when it happens to make your party look bad.

I am also a veteran, and can say for a fact that the media did not report the deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan the same way during the Bush years as they did during the Obama years. Perhaps you are not a veteran to have noticed this as well?

The same can be said for the swine flu pandemic during Obama's presidency compared to this coverage of the Covid-19 pandemic during Trump's presidency.

And you need to look no further than the Trump impeachment circus with Democrats feigning sorrow (dressed in black for the occasion, when laughing and toasting with wine parties behind the scenes) to know the mainstream media storyline is orchestrated and choreographed for their maximum political gain.

I point this out as a sickness of the Democratic party, and your response is to pretend none of that happened and to try and 'flip the script' to claim I am sick for honestly pointing that out. That tells me all I need to know about you and the master you obey above all else.

'Nuff said.
 
HIT4ME

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I have a question for you @Ricky10 (or anybody else if you know). I’ve heard that surgical masks don’t prevent it’s used from being infected by COVID19. However I see many COVID19 unit health givers using these masks rather than N95/FFP2 ones. What’s your thought on that? Do you think the surgical masks protect their users adequately? To some extend?
I am not the person you asked, and not in the medical field, but here are my thoughts - they would be wearing N95 masks if they had them. But they don't so they are using the best they have and even a rag would be better than nothing.

My ultimate opinion is a mask of any sort has a few functions - not so much protecting you from inhaling particles if it is not N95 - but it does help prevent YOU, if you become infected, from dispersing particles. Obviously if I am a contact point with a sick patient I don't want to become a contact point for all other medical staff and patients.

Also, it will still protect the user from putting their hands near their nose and mouth, which should reduce infection to a degree. Is it great? No...but even a 20% reduction could be critical if that is the best you can do.

N95 is far better...if you have them.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Answer my question from my post. How does a law that prohibits gatherings of 100 people (or whatever the amount was) not UNCONSTITUTIONAL to as it would prohibit the free exercise of religion for any church from gathering that has over 100 members since they wouldn’t be able to actually choose to have “church” to begin with, after all a church service by definition according to the Bible is a “ASSEMBLING”, “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner some” (Hebrews 10:25).

Also, answer me this as well are the laws that deem the gun shops “nonessential businesses” that therefore force them to close constitutional? In a free society those at highest risk, the elderly and those with preexisting conditions should be told to quarantine and it should be up to the rest of the members in society to CHOOSE if they want to quarantine. The economy should not be mandated by government edict to shut down, businesses closed many of which will never open again, millions of people be unemployed, and everyone forced to stay at home! Total government overreach in so many areas at a cost to many millions.
It doesn’t prohibit the practice of religion or gatherings; it limits the size of a single gathering, and isn’t specifically targeted towards places of worship.

People with a half-baked understanding of law just put CONSTITUTION in all-caps and think it means whatever they want it to mean. They can still have as many services as they want, so long as they don’t exceed X number of people in each one. Just like a normal Church service can’t exceed the legal building occupancy, even if they want to, and think it’s the only way to worship according to their faith. If I have a Church with an allowed maximum occupancy of 100, and suddenly I have 500 members, I have to start a second (and third, fourth, and fifth) service to accommodate them; I can’t just spit in the face of the laws (that aren’t exclusive towards or targeting Churches) and cram all 500 people into the one room that only allows 100 and say “CONSTITUTION! I have a right to assemble as I see fit! FIRST AMENDMENT!” It’s laughable man...
 
Ricky10

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that is good info...ventilators without the hookups are useless, right?
For the most part yes, it depends on the kind of ventilators we would be sent. Some have the abilty to be used with just high pressure (50 psi) oxygen, but the pt would be stuck receiving 100% oxygen for the duration. Oxygen is considered a drug in itself and causes lung toxicity and increases free radicals which is not good for any patient. We treat these pt’s with high levels of continuous pressure (like high CPAP) to keep the lungs, and air sacs within the lungs popped open for optimal gas exchange and lung health. Meanwhile, this allows us to set the oxygen level as low as possible to avoid toxicity.

I just read that Maine requested 400 ventilators from the national stockpile, while also announcing that we don’t have enough RT’s to run them. They are basically requesting anyone that was ever registered as an RT in their life (active license or not) to come out of retirement etc to help..:oops:

I have a bad feeling that the dynamic in my hospital changed rather dramatically since I last worked 2 days ago..
 
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jrock645

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That's an interesting read, but a waste of time. There's no studies or evidence to support his theory - just conjecture. Not even saying it is wrong, because a hypothesis is always conjecture to a large extent - just that he doesn't provide any evidence or any reason to believe what he is saying is actually true - as much sense at it may make.
That's my hesitance with it as well. The guy sounds like he's dead on, but simply mentioning that he's not a dr will completely discredit him and every word of the article in the minds of most.

I'm truly at a loss, though, for how combative people are with the idea of using a drug for something different than it was originally developed for. They act like this is a new idea and that Trump must've come up with this all on his own. There's off label uses for virtually every drug out there. Lots of drugs get used and marketed for something different and completely unrelated to what they were developed for in the first place.
 
thebigt

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Yeah - I have no problem with him not being a doctor. But he's laid out this theory, which all looks to click because it has assumptions in it that make everything fit - but where is there even evidence that Covid binds to blood cells and blocks iron like this? He doesn't site one source or article or anything. He just made it up. And he may be right - but only because he is a good guesser if he is. And it's not like we don't have really intelligent people working on this that have mastered skills we don't even know exist. But it's an interesting theory....but just a theory and we have enough people pretending to know the facts right now.

And I am with you on the Trump thing. Lots of people are against chloroquine merely because Trump is for it. I'm all for trying new things when nothing else is working. You can't just sit back and wait for the normal process to take place when you're trying to save a life. I still think we should be cautious and way risks, sure - and chloroquine is nice because we have a safety profile in humans already.

The bottom line is that this is a virus that is less than 6 months old. We have not been able to find a cure for the common cold in 100 years - we are really up against it here. It's like people expect this to go away in 3 months but don't want to experiment and learn at an increased rate.

I have a family friend with Alzheimer's. I started talking to some researchers at different universities and a lot of them were helpful with academic learning and I took that knowledge and passed it along. The person didn't want to try things because they weren't standard treatments. I was like....ummm...we have a safety profile here, and what choice do you think you have? None of the standard treatments work, we know that - so try something extra. It's just human nature.
compare this to a person dying of cancer and in extreme pain---they won't increase pain meds for fear of becoming addicted!!!

sometime the medical community acts like a bunch of retards.
 
Renew1

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A bit off topic, but in reply to @TheBigT I think this is pertinent.

The pain medication (ie., morphine) has horrible side effects. Consider the patient with cancer, in my case, my mother with ovarian cancer (stage IV). She was up all the time, and constipated from the drugs, and would not eat in order to gain strength. I had to carry her to the bathroom in order to help her try and force herself to get some relief.

It was a nightmare for the both of us. If only there were some kind of pain relieving drug that would also help her appetite at the same time. I kind of euphoric drug that didn't have an addictive nature, or horrible sides... it may even help shrink tumors in the process?

Can anyone suggest such a drug?

I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, and I apologize.
I think both you and @thebigt are correct in your comments on this (in my opinion).

I was with my grandmother when she was going through the final stages of cancer (and for her, the end of her life).

The Dr had given her (us to give her) Morphine liquid (or it could have been Demerol, or Dilaudid... Sorry I can't remember at the moment). He also prescribed liquid Atavan.

I honestly feel like the (careful) combination of those 2 had the best effects for her.

Just (of course) be very careful. Those pain meds are dangerous on their own, and the Ativan can add a measure of danger as well.

An extended family member suggested (one difficult day) that we give her an extra large dose so that she could get some rest. I pulled her son aside and reminded him that extra large doses of these drugs are sometimes used to end the patient's "suffering" (life is more accurate). So be very careful.
I'm praying for you, your Mother, and all of your family.

I lost the love of my life to cancer. It is a terrible disease.
 
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HIT4ME

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I think both you and @thebigt are correct in your comments on this (in my opinion).

I was with my grandmother when she was going through the final stages of cancer (and for her, the end of her life).

The Dr had given her (us to give her) Morphine liquid (or it could have been Demerol, or Dilaudid... Sorry I can't remember at the moment). He also prescribed liquid Atavan.

I honestly feel like the (careful) combination of those 2 had the best effects for her.

Just (of course) be very careful. Those pain meds are dangerous on their own, and the Ativan can add a measure of danger as well.

An extended family member suggested (one difficult day) that we give her an extra large dose so that she could get some rest. I pulled her son aside and reminded him that extra large doses of these drugs are sometimes used to end the patients "suffering" (life is more accurate). So be very careful.
I'm praying for you, your Mother, and all of your family.

I lost the love of my life to cancer. It is a terrible disease.
Was there with my 91 year old grandmother last October. Not cancer, just the end and liquid morphine. The home health aids and family members start thinking they are doctors once you out that stuff in their hands. They wield power that they don't understand.

You almost have to push too hard just to keep the balance between comfort and making it worse. It can be hard.
 
muscleupcrohn

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IMO, That's a real thing and part of satanic worship/cult.

Speaking of that, not sure if anyone has been reading Q Anon and why this virus and an increased incidence of "Earthquakes" happened around the same time.

Very weird how all of this is occurring around the time of the Resurrection as well

And yes, I am wearing my tin foil hat. Got to protect myself from 5g , lol

walking around public in, not a mask, but a tin foil hat.... savage
The virus has been around for months. It didn’t start on Easter, and it’s arguably not going to reach its peak until after Easter in many places around the world, so I don’t really see this timing as “very weird.” Any event that lasts several months will probably end up occurring around/during some religious holiday.
 
Ricky10

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@Ricky10 what do you think about this idea of oxygen deprivation (like an altitude sickness) as if we are treating this virus wrong and the ventilator could be causing harm (couple of mentions here and a doc video earlier)???

Have you had anyone successfully get off the ventilator once on it?
I couldn’t get that video to play the other night when I saw you post it, but was able to watch it tonight.

We have not been able been able to successfully wean (or keep) anyone off the vent, and now have six. This actually makes a great deal of sense and thank you for sharing! I will definitely bring it up, and try to share with the pulmonary team. I am back in the COVID unit tomorrow, but I'm not sure anyone will have time to watch it. I will get the word out very soon though..

Like everyone else, we have been following the high pressure low oxygen setting strategy, especially upon initially placing them on the ventilator. Some of them have required this approach regardless during the first day or so, but others really don’t seem to need those high pressures, and that could certainly cause more harm than good.
 
jswain34

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There is a reason Lupus and RA patients are not getting the virus...havent you seen the information all over the news???
‘President Donald Trump once again touted hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus. This time, the president falsely claimed that “people with lupus” who take hydroxychloroquine “aren’t catching this horrible virus.”’

As of April 2, the group (COVID-19 Global Rheumatology Alliance) had information on 110 validated patients (COVID + rheumatology patients with one of the following): 36% with rheumatoid arthritis, 17% with psoriatic arthritis and 17% with systemic lupus erythematosus, or lupus, an autoimmune disease.


Theres also the consideration that patients with rheumatologic conditions which are presumably on immunosuppressive therapy are likely following the social distancing and quarantine guidelines much more closely than people without those conditions. I highly doubt these patients were the idiots going on spring break, going to mass gatherings, etc.

Edit: i have no interest in turning this into a political dialogue about Trump. That wasnt the intent of this. He just happened to be the reason this article was written.
 

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The reason why the death rates haven’t skyrocketed is BECAUSE of the measures being taken to limit the spread and flatten the curve you dolt. If we let it run rampant, it would overwhelm our capacity, in terms of hospital space, ventilators, medical staff, etc.
Your claim above that closing down the economy reduces the death rate dramatically is a theory/speculation and is disproven by the one country that did not close down their economy, but rather just quarantined the elderly and immune compromised folks and that country is Sweden. This is the approach Trump should have taken. Sweden didn’t close their economy and their death rate per million citizens is 90, Italy closed their economy and their death rate per million is more than 3 times higher at 329. Many other counties can be pointed out to that closed their economies, but have two to three times the death rate per million citizens than Sweden that didn’t close their economy - Spain 374 deaths per million, France 214, Belgium 340. Sweden 90 (Source for these numbers https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/).

How do you explain this fact that is contradictory with your theory?
 

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He didn't require one as he was breathing on his own with some oxygen... also he was given a newer therapy. Did you read anything about it or are you just spouting some FOX albeit other right-wing conspiracy garbage? Tell you what? Heaven forbid you get it, or anyone you know, but if my wife does, she will probably require a ventilator because she has asthma and other underlying conditions.

I guess it's safe to say the not-so-healthy looking PM was more healthy than most or got one of the lessor of the three strains out there. We don't know, and neither do you.

Further more, South Korea and China are reporting a second wave. The virus can lie dormant and ractivate, just like the Spanish Flu did with 3 waves. I'll listen to the experts.



That would make sense here if only the old were dying in this country.
Question: What if we have tests that were made available to everyone, so we'd know who to quarantine?

2m tests are now available in a country of 320m.
Did you think of our homeless issue? How do you quarantine them? What's Sweden's homeless 'issue'?
We are a different culture and you cannot compare us to them.

There are 3 strains

H
He didn't require one as he was breathing on his own with some oxygen... also he was given a newer therapy. Did you read anything about it or are you just spouting some FOX albeit other right-wing conspiracy garbage? Tell you what? Heaven forbid you get it, or anyone you know, but if my wife does, she will probably require a ventilator because she has asthma and other underlying conditions.

I guess it's safe to say the not-so-healthy looking PM was more healthy than most or got one of the lessor of the three strains out there. We don't know, and neither do you.

Further more, South Korea and China are reporting a second wave. The virus can lie dormant and ractivate, just like the Spanish Flu did with 3 waves. I'll listen to the experts.



That would make sense here if only the old were dying in this country.
Question: What if we have tests that were made available to everyone, so we'd know who to quarantine?

2m tests are now available in a country of 320m.
Did you think of our homeless issue? How do you quarantine them? What's Sweden's homeless 'issue'?
We are a different culture and you cannot compare us to them.

How did Sweden fair during the Spanish Flu of 1918?
Fine, if you want to disregard Sweden’s example by comparing country with country saying the counties are too different than let’s compare US states with states. There are five states that did not go on lockdown on the economy and how did they fair with their per capita death rate per million? Here are the states with their per capita death rates per million citizens
Arkansa 8.9
Iowa 13
Nebraska 8.8
North Dakota 10.5
South Dakota 6.8

Let’s look at rates for states that did implement a lock down. New York went on lockdown, but their death rate per million citizens is about 48 times higher at 482. How about a less populated state like Connecticut? There deaths per million is 155. Michigan ? 148. You can even look much smaller populated states similar in size to the non lockdown states who went on lockdown and many still have higher death rates per million-
Oklahoma 24, Alabama 19, Rhode Island 59
(Source for theses numbers https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/country/united-states/ )

As far as you using the Spanish Flu to compare numbers that is if I liked to argue the Swine Flu numbers to support a point on coronavirus numbers, which you guys previously disagreed with me doing saying it was an illogical comparison, thus you need to be consistent with your own logic you applied on me in the debate and not now think it fair to make the Spanish Flu somehow analogous to COVID-19 numbers on how many died.
 

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